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Warlock
02-14-2007, 07:07 AM
Blizzard has posted a new preview of the upcoming third chapter in the Sunwell Trilogy Manga, Ghostlands. You can find that <A HREF="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/imageviewer.html?/news/images/07-02/,sunwell/,1,16,http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/">right here</a>. Ghostlands should be in stores March 13th, so be on the lookout!

Creative
02-14-2007, 07:45 AM
Nice, and I really like Dar'khan's hat.

And nice that Lor'themar was there... :)

Coljun
02-14-2007, 08:17 AM
and Halduran

Cantus
02-14-2007, 09:55 AM
Of course Knaak would add a mysterious benefactor in the final book...deus ex machina anybody?

Wulfang
02-14-2007, 10:24 AM
The mysterious benefactor is Krasus, as has already been revealed months ago in the BC site. As if we didn't expect it already...

Cantus
02-14-2007, 10:44 AM
Great, another way for him to add his characters to a completely different story arc.

Creative
02-14-2007, 12:23 PM
Borel look rather awesome with that robe and hood, though.

Yuber8900
02-14-2007, 06:59 PM
Bah why did those elves engage in melee when they had arrows! Stupids.

Flamestrider
02-14-2007, 08:56 PM
Krasus? Wow! I would never have guessed!

...Yeah, that's not predictable.

Vicious
02-15-2007, 02:21 AM
Exactly one year to make a whole volume, like the others, right on schedule.

Lor´themar and Halduron, nice way to combine the storyline with the Blood elf one in the Burning Legion, too bad i was spoiled about it when they announced the Blood elf lore page....stupid Blizzard.

Man i love this guy art style, his scenarios are incredibly detailed.

I guess after all his involvelments, some people still can´t consider Krasus a half-important character in Warcraft Lore, go figure.

Cantus
02-15-2007, 05:03 AM
Exactly one year to make a whole volume, like the others, right on schedule.

Lor´themar and Halduron, nice way to combine the storyline with the Blood elf one in the Burning Legion, too bad i was spoiled about it when they announced the Blood elf lore page....stupid Blizzard.

Man i love this guy art style, his scenarios are incredibly detailed.

I guess after all his involvelments, some people still can´t consider Krasus a half-important character in Warcraft Lore, go figure.

Because he's been given a role that should rightfully belong to someone else. An Aspect or demi-god, not a dragon meddling in human affairs, should be the one o guide players.

Knaak already had one dragon in the storyline and he already retconned the corruption of the Sunwell, he doesn't need to further cram his characters into a separate arc.

Maybe i'm still angry about his butchering of WotA, but largely it's because he needs to learn that just because he's been given a license to write about Warcraft doesn't mean he needs to rewrite important events to fit his fancy.

Creative
02-15-2007, 05:39 AM
Well... This comic already had many Knaak-characters, I don't see why Krasus don't fit...

And I love the art.

Bah why did those elves engage in melee when they had arrows! Stupids.

Cause swords are more awesome. And it looks better on picture. Plus swords are more effective against mindless zombies than arrows.

Aldrius
02-15-2007, 06:09 AM
I guess after all his involvelments, some people still can´t consider Krasus a half-important character in Warcraft Lore, go figure.

It has nothing to do with lore importance(*mumbles*Though Krasus isn't all that important.). It has everything to do with the fact that he's not important to THIS story. I mean... Thrall and Jaina aren't in it, are they? And why? Because they have next to nothing to do with the Blood Elves and the fall of Quel'thalas.

Is Sylvanas even in it for more than a minute...?

Kenzuki
02-15-2007, 06:12 AM
Knaak didn't butcher WoTA. Because, believe it or not, he was not writting about the original WoTA. Remember, it's a time travel thing, and as such it's not going to be the same thing. I enjoyed it, besides the rather rushed ending. But that's just me.

I like Krasus myself, though I like Rhonin better.

Flamestrider
02-15-2007, 09:14 PM
It has nothing to do with lore importance(*mumbles*Though Krasus isn't all that important.). It has everything to do with the fact that he's not important to THIS story. I mean... Thrall and Jaina aren't in it, are they? And why? Because they have next to nothing to do with the Blood Elves and the fall of Quel'thalas.

Exactly. The fact that a character has done something important doesn't make him an automatic fit in any story. The fact that Knaak created Krasus only makes it more apparent when he sticks him in the middle of every other story.

The other thing that makes it apparent is the fact that it doesn't really give us anything new, lore-wise. If the mysterious benefactor were, say, Tirion Fordring, that would certainly lead to some sort of new lore connection that could be expanded in later material. Now, new lore isn't always a good thing, but at least it moves the story along.

With Krasus on the other hand, we can rest assured that the explanation will ultimately boil down to "He's a dragon who likes doing good deeds and helping the world!" Krasus has no real motive to get involved with the sunwell, which is the domain of the blue dragonflight, or the changes in the timeline, for that matter, which should have been dealt with by the bronze dragons.

Just because a character is cool or significant doesn't mean you can throw him into any story. I'm partial to Kargath Bladefist, but that doesn't mean I'd insert him into a story about the aftermath of the Scourge Invasion of Quel'Thalas. Some of you like Danath, and I don't think you'd insert him into the story if you were writing it (or at least I hope not). Just because Knaak does it for a living, it doesn't make it any better when he throws his favorite character into every book. It's nothing more than Gary-Stuism on a profesional level.

Yuber8900
02-15-2007, 09:36 PM
Exactly. The fact that a character has done something important doesn't make him an automatic fit in any story. The fact that Knaak created Krasus only makes it more apparent when he sticks him in the middle of every other story.

The other thing that makes it apparent is the fact that it doesn't really give us anything new, lore-wise. If the mysterious benefactor were, say, Tirion Fordring, that would certainly lead to some sort of new lore connection that could be expanded in later material. Now, new lore isn't always a good thing, but at least it moves the story along.

With Krasus on the other hand, we can rest assured that the explanation will ultimately boil down to "He's a dragon who likes doing good deeds and helping the world!" Krasus has no real motive to get involved with the sunwell, which is the domain of the blue dragonflight, or the changes in the timeline, for that matter, which should have been dealt with by the bronze dragons.

Just because a character is cool or significant doesn't mean you can throw him into any story. I'm partial to Kargath Bladefist, but that doesn't mean I'd insert him into a story about the aftermath of the Scourge Invasion of Quel'Thalas. Some of you like Danath, and I don't think you'd insert him into the story if you were writing it (or at least I hope not). Just because Knaak does it for a living, it doesn't make it any better when he throws his favorite character into every book. It's nothing more than Gary-Stuism on a profesional level.

In all honestly a character I created, I stick into EVERYTHING. Seriously it's so obsessive it's scary.

Flamestrider
02-15-2007, 11:28 PM
But would you want a professional author to do so?

Death
02-16-2007, 09:10 AM
Krasus has no real motive to get involved with the sunwell, which is the domain of the blue dragonflight, or the changes in the timeline, for that matter, which should have been dealt with by the bronze dragons.


While I don't disagree that the Bronze flight would be ideal for WotA's involvement, you have to remember that Nozdormu was already preoccupied trying to keep the Old Gods in check. Given that by that point Krasus was already well known by the Aspects for his actions in DotD, it would'nt be too much of a stretch for Nozdormu to turn to him, assuming his own flight was already stretched thin trying to keep the time stream in check.

I do agree about his Sunwell involvement, though. Can't really think of any real reason why Krasus would be involved, especially given the relative recovery of the blue flight. It would make much more sense to have a blue dragon like Azuregos being the one behind the scenes instead of Krasus.

Wulfang
02-16-2007, 12:02 PM
Guys, you have to remember that Krasus is the most powerful non-Aspect dragon leaving near the Sunwell. In my opinion, his status as the Dragonqueen's only current consort marks him as a really powerful, intelligent and gifted dragon.

Also, of all the beings leaving near the Sunwell, he was the one most able to capture its released energies and bind them in the form of a mortal avatar, as red dragons are, undisputedly, the masters of controling the cycles of life. Some of you said he didn't have the right to meddle in the affairs of the blue dragons as such a powerful source of arcane magic was the dominion of their guardianship, but tell me, how many blue dragons would have had the ability to do the same thing Krasus did?

Many dragons probably felt the energies being released but could do nothing about it. Korialstrasz, on the other hand, used his powers to create an avatar for the Sunwell, in which its powers could recover until they were as strong as before.

Aldrius
02-16-2007, 01:20 PM
Guys, you have to remember that Krasus is the most powerful non-Aspect dragon leaving near the Sunwell. In my opinion, his status as the Dragonqueen's only current consort marks him as a really powerful, intelligent and gifted dragon.

Also, of all the beings leaving near the Sunwell, he was the one most able to capture its released energies and bind them in the form of a mortal avatar, as red dragons are, undisputedly, the masters of controling the cycles of life. Some of you said he didn't have the right to meddle in the affairs of the blue dragons as such a powerful source of arcane magic was the dominion of their guardianship, but tell me, how many blue dragons would have had the ability to do the same thing Krasus did?

Many dragons probably felt the energies being released but could do nothing about it. Korialstrasz, on the other hand, used his powers to create an avatar for the Sunwell, in which its powers could recover until they were as strong as before.

It has nothing to do with the actual storyline. Theoretically anyone could hav e been involved (Thrall gained magical time-travelling powers in the future and came back to save the Sun Well. There we go.). We're talking about Knaak getting him involved.

Nephalim
02-17-2007, 12:02 AM
Knaak didn't butcher WoTA. Because, believe it or not, he was not writting about the original WoTA. Remember, it's a time travel thing, and as such it's not going to be the same thing.First off, and we've been over this, time travel doesn't account for half the list of stuff wrong with those books. Second, that he's "not writing the REAL War of the Ancients" doesn't mean he didn't butcher it.

However, Krasus' involvement here makes considerably more justifiable sense than it did in War of the Ancients. I have no problem with artists masturbating if they can legitimize it.

My biggest problem with the Sunwell Trilogy is that it muddled things from Path of the Damned (just like War of the Ancients), but you can just add that to the list of unnecessary and lazy confusions. The story itself is a little spastic, and seriously, Shadows of Ice was total filler that could have been completely done without. But we need our "trilogy," I guess. Heaven forbid we break a single high fantasy trope.

And I knew what we were getting when they announced a Warcraft manga but I don't care: this doesn't look like Warcraft. As far as anime art goes, it's pretty well done (though if Jorad was cleanshaven, I would not, for the life of me, be able to tell him and Kalec apart), but Warcraft has always carried a distinctive style that had so far carried over into every medium. The dragons don't look like Warcraft dragons, the elves don't look like Warcraft elves, and the undead don't (even remotely) look like Warcraft undead. I have no qualms about anime, but it's a style of its own, and I never really saw the point of translating Warcraft into a manga above the sake of translating it into a manga.

Finally, my last rant is this: why the hell is Korialstrasz calling himself Borel? Jorad doesn't seem that well-versed in dragon related stuff, so if he had called himself "Krasus" it likely wouldn't have raised any suspicion. And if he did it for anyone else's benefit, this would suggest a level of premonition on his part that begs a number of other questions. The most obvious answer, naturally, is that this is totally for our benefit, so he can spring "OMGZ Krasus!" on us at the last second. It's a noble enough intention, I guess, but it just doesn't make any sense.

Ghaztha
02-17-2007, 02:06 AM
Wanna know why Knaak adds his favourite characters.... because he can!

Actually i love the new direction that wow has begun to go down with the Manga, great idead it will also help bring in more Far Eastern Fans, which aint a bad thing.

And as for him being Borel.. i am sure many of the High Elves of Quel'thalas would have known Krasus from the Kirin Tor, at the moment its not wise to be known as someone from the Alliance among the Blood elves.. that answer your question.

Also.. the reason you dont like it.. and lets face it.. is cause your jealous that YOUR character aint in the books/manga

Go on flame me.. frankly i dont care.. and honestly this contant bitching from these forums is becoming a deterrant.. i am almost begining to like Wowwiki more and that is really saying something...

Aldrius
02-17-2007, 06:31 AM
Go on flame me.. frankly i dont care.. and honestly this contant bitching from these forums is becoming a deterrant.. i am almost begining to like Wowwiki more and that is really saying something...

Why would I flame you? For... saying I'm bitching?

Because I know I am. :P That's the whole point to bitching.

Honestly, I have some legitimate complaints, and they're just my opinion... not saying you have to agree with me.

As for why I dislike it, I haven't read it. I can't dislike it.

However, I dislike the idea of Knaak including Krasus in something ELSE he has nothing to do with, and them screwing around with one of my ABSOLUTE favourite moments in WarCraft 3. Only to include some crappy villain with no flavour or motivation.

You know who I WOULDN'T mind Knaak including?

Vareesa. If he actually developed her better as a character. Because you know, she's actually a High/Blood Elf as opposed to a red dragon... and it'd be interesting to see her actually do something instead of sitting at home pregnant.

Hell, I'd rather have a story about the sunwell's destruction rather than it's restoration. (I mean what it's destruction did to the elves as opposed to how it can be restored.)

Timolas
02-17-2007, 09:01 AM
Ghaz don't worry. ;P The forum passes through hate phases for a particular person or character. It will pass! Just as the Illidan hate phase passed, which was driving me crazy since he's one of my favourite characters.

Best thing for us to do now is talk about how we hate someone else other than Knaak. Hey did you see what Jaina was wearing the other day?

Aldrius
02-17-2007, 09:48 AM
I don't hate Knaak.

I hate his writing.

I don't even know Knaak.

Nephalim
02-17-2007, 11:39 AM
And as for him being Borel.. i am sure many of the High Elves of Quel'thalas would have known Krasus from the Kirin Tor, at the moment its not wise to be known as someone from the Alliance among the Blood elves.. that answer your question.But why would he give it to Jorad?
Also.. the reason you dont like it.. and lets face it.. is cause your jealous that YOUR character aint in the books/mangaFirst, while I'd like to have my characters featured in an official piece, I wouldn't want to put them in a story they had to be forced into. It would devalue both the work and my character.

Second, I just said that I didn't mind Krasus being in it.

Third, I also gave a number of perfectly legitimate complaints which you ignored. By your logic, I should hate every peice of Warcraft everything because it's not all about my characters. As I listed above, I have an abundant number of reasons to dislike the Sunwell Trilogy; I don't need you or anyone else making ones up for me.
Go on flame me.. frankly i dont care.. and honestly this contant bitching from these forums is becoming a deterrant.. i am almost begining to like Wowwiki more and that is really saying something...See, this is what I'm talking about.

Warcraft story has taken a very obvious and fairly shameless quality dive over the last two years. Oh, but we can't say anything about it because then we're bitching. If we leave it to the fans (or the wiki) to polish out the dents in the story, then we're giving the people who actually make it no reason to rethink their methods or get their act back together.

Ghaztha
02-17-2007, 07:03 PM
*claps* Classy Neph.. real nice.. am proud to consider meself a fellow wow lore fan considering your one too.. real nice..

Creative
02-18-2007, 02:09 AM
*claps* Classy Neph.. real nice.. am proud to consider meself a fellow wow lore fan considering your one too.. real nice..

That didn't make sense.


And, I think it would be better if Borel was an important blue dragon, because it feels a little silly that Krasus is there. The reason is only that Knaak likes his own character, so he decided to put him there.

And funny, I don't really have anything against Krasus, but once you put him in the Sunwell trilogy, I think he is a little ridiculous.

Flamestrider
02-18-2007, 09:08 AM
*claps* Classy Neph.. real nice.. am proud to consider meself a fellow wow lore fan considering your one too.. real nice..

Was that supposed to be irony? I'm not entirely sure.

Ghaztha
02-19-2007, 02:59 AM
ok, let me iron *wink* this down.

I agree that Krasus doesnt really have a good place in the Sunwell Story, However Knakk and Metzen decided otherwise.. therefore we need to just adapt and get on with it... same goes for any other books ya dont like.

I know a fellow Hordie who hates Lords of the Clans and Rise of the Horde... why i cant figure out cause i personally think there the best Warcraft novels.

i guess what i was saying is this, there is little point saying "ohh that sucks why is he here!!" maybe we should be trying to find out "what the reason for him being here is?" and its not, Ahh Knakk likes his character ((Actually it is.. but you know am trying to look at it from a lore perspective))

Anyhoo hit at me now.. and Lets all have a group hug eh!

*huggles*

Aldrius
02-19-2007, 12:54 PM
i guess what i was saying is this, there is little point saying "ohh that sucks why is he here!!" maybe we should be trying to find out "what the reason for him being here is?" and its not, Ahh Knakk likes his character ((Actually it is.. but you know am trying to look at it from a lore perspective))

Um... see, the thing is. There is no reason for Krasus to be there. =S That's my beef with it. He could have stuck Anasterian in there, and given him some character development. He could have had Kael be the one to make the avatar of the sunwell...

But no, it had to be Krasus. And instead of Krasus you know... helping the elves fight off the huge mob of undead. He turns some of their sunwell water into a little human girl...

I don't get it.

Nephalim
02-19-2007, 03:15 PM
I agree that Krasus doesnt really have a good place in the Sunwell Story, However Knakk and Metzen decided otherwise.. therefore we need to just adapt and get on with it... same goes for any other books ya dont like.That's not acceptable. We shouldn't have to invent reasons for Blizzard to do whatever nonsense they like, and if we do, then that's sending the message that they can get away with anything. Knaak has taken some very substantial liberties with Warcraft, and he shows no sign of slowing down. I don't want this to continue. You're right in that getting upset won't change things as they are. The books are written and nothing can be done about that. But if Blizzard sees enough people getting pissed off, maybe they'll change gears and smarten up.

Rebirth
02-19-2007, 05:52 PM
Was that supposed to be irony? I'm not entirely sure.

I'd assume an attempt to be a smart ass that fails miserably and becomes quite ironic.

And Ghaztha, stop bitching if thats what you don't like. Don't complain about something you're a part of.

Ghaztha
02-19-2007, 05:59 PM
Am not bitching.. am just tired of senseless moaning.. instead of giving conscructive feedback.. like examples of who whould have been there instead of Krasus/Borel.. or whatever

Nephalim
02-19-2007, 09:30 PM
Ok.

The entire affair of the Sunwell's destruction and saving and Anveena, as it stands, doesn't work. There's no accounting for Kel'Thuzad's resurrection. So that entire scenario should be reworked, and the most likely candidate to create Anveena and save the Sunwell's remaining power would be a new one - perhaps an elf wizard, or a blue dragon who had infiltrated Quel'Thalas. No appropriate character truly exists. But the biggest problem is that the entire story is founded on an event that doesn't make sense anymore.

Yuber8900
02-19-2007, 09:36 PM
Ok.

The entire affair of the Sunwell's destruction and saving and Anveena, as it stands, doesn't work. There's no accounting for Kel'Thuzad's resurrection. So that entire scenario should be reworked, and the most likely candidate to create Anveena and save the Sunwell's remaining power would be a new one - perhaps an elf wizard, or a blue dragon who had infiltrated Quel'Thalas. No appropriate character truly exists. But the biggest problem is that the entire story is founded on an event that doesn't make sense anymore.

Sense lost all place when WoW came along.

Creative
02-20-2007, 03:10 AM
Something I don't understand is why a manga about the Sunwell doesn't include Kael'Thas and Blood Elves.

Anasterian should have been the one to make the avatar of the Sunwell, and Kael'Thas should atleast have a role.


I mean, how the crap is a manga about the Sunwell not about Blood Elves?

Kenzuki
02-20-2007, 06:35 AM
Something I don't understand is why a manga about the Sunwell doesn't include Kael'Thas and Blood Elves.

Anasterian should have been the one to make the avatar of the Sunwell, and Kael'Thas should atleast have a role.


I mean, how the crap is a manga about the Sunwell not about Blood Elves?

Because the blood elves were off fighting elsewhere perhaps?

Nephalim
02-20-2007, 12:38 PM
Well, there's a lot of blood elves out there. I doubt that every single one was otherwise preoccupied. I think perhaps if Jorad's character had been redone as a blood/high elf, that would be a bit better.

Creative
02-20-2007, 12:56 PM
Because the blood elves were off fighting elsewhere perhaps?

Yeah, but when you think about it... Isn't it weird?

I mean, that's like having a novel that is in Ashenvale, and not include Night Elves.

But, don't you think it is a little weird that there are no Blood Elves?

Vicious
02-20-2007, 05:57 PM
But, don't you think it is a little weird that there are no Blood Elves?

Have you even seen the preview, Creative?

Nephalim
02-20-2007, 07:35 PM
I think it's a little late to start introducing protagonists.

Vicious
02-20-2007, 08:19 PM
I think it's a little late to start introducing protagonists.

What protagonists?

It´s only normal that there is elves in the Ghostlands/Eversong woods, they were only in Alterac Mountains in the last book.

Nephalim
02-20-2007, 08:53 PM
What protagonists?I'm not totally sure what you mean by that. I'm saying that at this point Halduron and Lor'themar can't possibly become anything but secondary characters.

There are no blood elves in the group of main characters. I mean, why would the power of the Sunwell manifest into, of all things, a human girl? Their absence from a story that's so pivotal to them is a tad inappropriate, and I seriously don't see why Jorad's character couldn't be a blood elf. They could keep everything exactly the same. Just shave his face and lengthen his ears.

Yuber8900
02-20-2007, 09:18 PM
I mean, why would the power of the Sunwell manifest into, of all things, a human girl?

Because Krasus forced the power to manifest into the most common of all the races.

Vicious
02-20-2007, 09:28 PM
I'm not totally sure what you mean by that. I'm saying that at this point Halduron and Lor'themar can't possibly become anything but secondary characters.

Yeah, that was pretty much my point.


There are no blood elves in the group of main characters. I mean, why would the power of the Sunwell manifest into, of all things, a human girl? Their absence from a story that's so pivotal to them out some is a tad inappropriate, and I seriously don't see why Jorad's character couldn't be a blood elf. They could keep everything exactly the same. Just shave his face and lengthen his ears.

While i agree that it´s in fact pretty strange that there is no High/Blood elf actually directly involved with the creation of the avatar of the Sunweel, i think it makes perfect sense why Anveena is human, first it was Krasus that created the avatar, it wasn´t some free willed entity that formed itself for self preservation.

Second, see where Anveena was before the whole story started and she was found by the Undead, she was a joly simple human peasant in the middle of nowhere minding her own business, when the Blood elf story was revelead by Blizzard spoiling the entire fucking story, it seemed pretty obvious that Krasus was hiding the essence of the Sunwwll from forces like the Burning Legion or the Scourge, making the avatar into an elf would be less subtil i guess.


Edit:Well, Yubber explained it in alittle more simple manner...