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View Full Version : Winged Guardian actually of Primordial Gryphon?


Dithon1
10-11-2011, 03:05 PM
First off: I don't actually think this deserves a thread, but I don't know where else to put it, so I just made one for it.

That being said... The title says it all. Just looking at the mount reminds me of the modern-day gryphon. Just more lion and less eagle.


And fire. That's sort of a hard thing to miss.


Although it DOES seem somewhat odd that the (presumed) curse of flesh would make it go from lion body+eagle wings to Lion ass+Eagle front. Most other cases of CoF (de-?)evolution in the case of stone/metal constructs to flesh does just that. Stone/metal to flesh, organs, ect.


Perhaps the eagle head+legs is a defect already present? One that had the edge over the lion once they weren't stone any longer? That seems the most reasonable to me.


Thoughts?

Nazja
10-11-2011, 03:11 PM
First off: I don't actually think this deserves a thread, but I don't know where else to put it, so I just made one for it.

That being said... The title says it all. Just looking at the mount reminds me of the modern-day gryphon. Just more lion and less eagle.


And fire. That's sort of a hard thing to miss.


Although it DOES seem somewhat odd that the (presumed) curse of flesh would make it go from lion body+eagle wings to Lion ass+Eagle front. Most other cases of CoF (de-?)evolution in the case of stone/metal constructs to flesh does just that. Stone/metal to flesh, organs, ect.


Perhaps the eagle head+legs is a defect already present? One that had the edge over the lion once they weren't stone any longer? That seems the most reasonable to me.


Thoughts?
Gryphons are related to dragons though :P

Dithon1
10-11-2011, 03:12 PM
Gryphons are related to dragons though :P

...I see no relation between a lion/eagle hybrid and a large fire-breathing lizard.

Avon
10-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Personally I like to think all mishmash creatures were created by Elune for some nefarious purpose.

Sonneillon
10-11-2011, 03:24 PM
Gryphons are related to dragons though :P

Yes yes, and Wyverns are the result of Dragons and Gryphons fucking...

RPG ISN'T CANNON (god that never stops feeling so good)

Now that thats said.

I think its obvious based on where they are likely from (Uldum) that they are Proto-Wyverns rather than Gryphons.

Revenant
10-11-2011, 03:25 PM
The first bit of wyvern lore we got, in the Warcraft III manual, and not the RPG, was "The wyverns, who share a common ancestry with both dragons and gryphons,"...

Sonneillon
10-11-2011, 03:26 PM
The first bit of wyvern lore we got, in the Warcraft III manual, and not the RPG, was "The wyverns, who share a common ancestry with both dragons and gryphons,"...

I STAB YOU SO BAD THAT YOU WISH I DIDN'T STAB YOU SO BAD

(ps, not actually going to stab you, don't call the cops)

Dithon1
10-11-2011, 03:31 PM
I think its obvious based on where they are likely from (Uldum) that they are Proto-Wyverns rather than Gryphons.

This does actually make some more sense, although their wing types are very different.

Mutterscrawl
10-11-2011, 03:32 PM
I can see it now...

Eonar: Alright, now we made dragons, what else should fly? We've gotta finish this ecosystem.

Agrammar: What about aaaaaahhhh... Scorpion with a lion? Or an Eagle with a lion?

Eonar: Sure, why not.

Khaz'goroth: I still say we should stick with different sized versions of us...

Agrammar: You just want to be taller than someone.

Nazja
10-11-2011, 03:34 PM
They could be proto-lions which after becoming fleshy lost their wings due to the curse of flesh just like their Tol'vir counterparts.

Dithon1
10-11-2011, 03:37 PM
They could be proto-lions which after becoming fleshy lost their wings due to the curse of flesh just like their Tol'vir counterparts.

Or their wings are burnt off at birth. Y'know, the wing-fire and all.

Sonneillon
10-11-2011, 03:40 PM
I can see it now...

Eonar: Alright, now we made dragons, what else should fly? We've gotta finish this ecosystem.

Agrammar: What about aaaaaahhhh... Scorpion with a lion? Or an Eagle with a lion?

Eonar: Sure, why not.

Khaz'goroth: I still say we should stick with different sized versions of us...

Agrammar: You just want to be taller than someone.

Elune: Alright big boy, invite all the Animals over for our crazy moon lit orgy.

Malorne: Damn Elune, you one crazy chick.

Mutterscrawl
10-11-2011, 03:43 PM
Eh, Cenarius is her kid, he was raised by Ysera, and... depending on HOW awkward the thing with the magnataur was, he either failed to root out the uh, eccentricities of his family among himself or his kids...


I still think the First Dryad, who went on to become first Frost Nymph, had a thing going on with the Mammoth Troll God.

Nazja
10-11-2011, 03:44 PM
Elune: Alright big boy, invite all the Animals over for our crazy moon lit orgy.

Malorne: Damn Elune, you one crazy chick.
I wonder if animal-nelf relationships are viable :P

Sonneillon
10-11-2011, 03:45 PM
I wonder if animal-nelf relationships are viable :P

I'm pretty sure most druids slip into animal form unexpectedly during intercourse for the lols.

Exxile87
10-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Elune: Alright big boy, invite all the Animals over for our crazy moon lit orgy.

Malorne: Damn Elune, you one crazy chick.

Elune: Yo shut the fuck up and suck my dick! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRXdbmVOK5A)

Omacron
10-11-2011, 03:52 PM
I'd say that it's less likely the winged guardians are pre-flesh gryphons and more like Tol'vir missing a torso.

Dithon1
10-11-2011, 03:54 PM
I'm pretty sure most druids slip into animal form unexpectedly during intercourse for the lols.

Malfurion: So, do you want a bear, panther, tree, or walrus tonight, babe?

Tyrande: Can't we ever just have -normal- sex, Furion?

Malfurion: Oh, c'mon! It's fun! Besides, normal sex just doesn't cut it for me any more.

Tyrande: *sigh* I never should have let you "experiment" with my poor mount...

Sonneillon
10-11-2011, 03:58 PM
Malfurion: So, do you want a bear, panther, tree, or walrus tonight, babe?

Tyrande: Can't we ever just have -normal- sex, Furion?

Malfurion: Oh, c'mon! It's fun! Besides, normal sex just doesn't cut it for me any more.

Tyrande: *sigh* I never should have let you "experiment" with my poor mount...

This explains why Ysera doesn't have a mate, Malfurion spends so long in the dream and has recently returned taking on characteristics with all sorts of wacky ass bullshit (not to mention a mustache with handles). What better way to spice up your love life like having a love affair with a god damned Green Dragon.

Malfurion... you dog you.

Mustrum
10-11-2011, 03:58 PM
Malfurion: So, do you want a bear, panther, tree, or walrus tonight, babe?

Tyrande: Can't we ever just have -normal- sex, Furion?

Malfurion: Oh, c'mon! It's fun! Besides, normal sex just doesn't cut it for me any more.

Tyrande: *sigh* I never should have let you "experiment" with my poor mount...

For the record, the gif in your signature might be the best thing ever.

Nazja
10-11-2011, 04:01 PM
Next race: Dryads and Keepers!!!
Your mounts allow you to choose what kind of creature was fucked by elune so you could be born. So you want your daddy to be a Darnassian Nightsaber? Just summon your Darnassian Nightsaber and watch as your body changes to accommodate your new DNA!!!

Dithon1
10-11-2011, 04:05 PM
For the record, the gif in your signature might be the best thing ever.

You are not the first to tell me that.

Ded Chikn
10-12-2011, 04:49 AM
Elune: Alright big boy, invite all the Animals over for our crazy moon lit orgy.

Malorne: Damn Elune, you one crazy chick.

She's already had a stag. Well, the God of Stags.

AndyJP
10-12-2011, 05:05 AM
I want there to be a "mad scientist" Titan that liked to do a lot of genetic experimentation that created these hybrids.

Sonneillon
10-12-2011, 06:50 AM
I want there to be a "mad scientist" Titan that liked to do a lot of genetic experimentation that created these hybrids.

Again, there is no longer any evidence that genetic experimentation is, was or ever will be the Titans thing. Or that Genetics even exist in this fantasy universe. Less and less it seems like the Titan's tooled around with anything meat based, just isn't their MO. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Omacron
10-12-2011, 09:22 AM
Again, there is no longer any evidence that genetic experimentation is, was or ever will be the Titans thing. Or that Genetics even exist in this fantasy universe. Less and less it seems like the Titan's tooled around with anything meat based, just isn't their MO. I wouldn't get your hopes up.

Genetic engineering seems to be, if not the Black flight's thing, at least Nefarian's thing. The chromatic and twilight dragons are results of genetic engineering, just look at all the labs in BWL.

Sonneillon
10-12-2011, 09:29 AM
Genetic engineering seems to be, if not the Black flight's thing, at least Nefarian's thing. The chromatic and twilight dragons are results of genetic engineering, just look at all the labs in BWL.

God damn, how did I forget that. I'm not sure how much we can attribute to them using DNA and what not or Gene Sequencing. It seems more, Blood plus blood, plus magic = dagrons! But you aren't wrong

I used to think the Titans were involved in Genetic Manipulation, but it just doesn't seem to be the case anymore. More and more the lores moved away from that with little evidence to suggest they have ever made life not of stone, crystal or metal. With the new possible Elemental Origins for Dragons biggest questions arrise.

One that comes to mind is Animal life in general, does that pre-date the titans or did the titans make all the Animals. It seems that they have atleast made some of stone in the past...

Revenant
10-12-2011, 09:37 AM
The Lore Keeper of Norgannon confirms that the titans used biomass-based constructs in the past, and the earthen were a new idea. Sure, a lot was stone, but look at sea giants. The curse if flesh allegedly did not affect giants much.

I think Khaz'Goroth was the scientist titan.

Nazja
10-12-2011, 02:40 PM
Doesn't the watcher in Un'Goro say that some of the creatures living in the crater were created by Khaz'goroth? She also calls it the titans' "petri dish" which leads credence to the theory that they create/manipulate life using science and not just magic.

Omacron
10-12-2011, 03:00 PM
What makes you think the Titans distinguish between science and magic?

Dithon1
10-12-2011, 03:09 PM
What makes you think the Titans distinguish between science and magic?

In this setting, the two are carried out in almost the exact same fashion. Well, at least that's how the Kirin Tor practice it. Sort of a hybrid between science and literature.

Nazja
10-12-2011, 03:10 PM
What makes you think the Titans distinguish between science and magic?
maybe they don't but we do (as in the players and not the mortal races they play as) and a petri dish is something associated with scientific experiments and, in relation to creating life, could be related to (basic) genetic engineering which, some of us, thought was beyond the titans.

Revenant
10-12-2011, 03:11 PM
maybe they don't but we do and a petri dish is something associated with scientific experiments and, in relation to creating life, could be related to (basic) genetic engineering which, some of us, thought was beyond the titans.

It was beyond them because...?

Nazja
10-12-2011, 03:12 PM
It was beyond them because...?
Don't know... ask the people arguing against it ;)

AndyJP
10-12-2011, 03:13 PM
It's hard to see composite creatures and think they are not the result of genetic or alchemical experimentation.

Omacron
10-12-2011, 05:03 PM
maybe they don't but we do (as in the players and not the mortal races they play as) and a petri dish is something associated with scientific experiments and, in relation to creating life, could be related to (basic) genetic engineering which, some of us, thought was beyond the titans.

What about magic necessarily excludes it from scientific experimentation? At the very least, arcane magic that has descended from the Highborne tradition (that is, highborne>high elves>Dalaran and possible Kezan and Gnomeregan) definitely experiments with magic using something similar to the scientific method.


In essence, the formalized study of magic is a science. It's just that they have different rules than the laws of physics that govern science in the real world. A fireball spell is just as complex and analyzed as a flamethrower.

Cemotucu
10-12-2011, 08:27 PM
The Lore Keeper of Norgannon confirms that the titans used biomass-based constructs in the past, and the earthen were a new idea. Sure, a lot was stone, but look at sea giants. The curse if flesh allegedly did not affect giants much.

I think Khaz'Goroth was the scientist titan.

Issue 5 said that all the Giants were affected: that explains the fleshly Sea Giants.

In the other hand, you're right about the Lore Keeper. I think that if we travel to another Titan-made world, we surely will find fleshly creatures madeby the Titans.

Revenant
10-12-2011, 08:48 PM
Issue 5 said that all the Giants were affected: that explains the fleshly Sea Giants.

Thanks to Ashendant (I keep forgetting not to dislike him), and by extension Insane Guy of Doom, I know that it says most of them got affected by the Curse of Flesh, and it also says that it did not seem to affect them much.

In the other hand, you're right about the Lore Keeper. I think that if we travel to another Titan-made world, we surely will find fleshly creatures madeby the Titans.

You accept that the detail exists... but refuse to apply it to anything we have seen already... :raisedbro

Ruinshin
10-13-2011, 02:06 AM
I can't see magic being used as a science (though I can see magic being used to supplement science) because the rules of magic change on a moments notice according to The Last Guardian.

That really makes it hard to use as a science, as the laws are never a constant.

Omacron
10-13-2011, 04:39 AM
I can't see magic being used as a science (though I can see magic being used to supplement science) because the rules of magic change on a moments notice according to The Last Guardian.

That really makes it hard to use as a science, as the laws are never a constant.

It doesn't necessarily mean that they're NEVER constant, only that they're a whole order of magnitude more complex than normal laws of physics.

Cemotucu
10-13-2011, 10:04 AM
Thanks to Ashendant (I keep forgetting not to dislike him), and by extension Insane Guy of Doom, I know that it says most of them got affected by the Curse of Flesh, and it also says that it did not seem to affect them much.

We don't know if that refers to most of all the subtypes, or just all the giants of certain subtypes. I go by the first, personally.

You accept that the detail exists... but refuse to apply it to anything we have seen already... :raisedbro

Because they started using the new stonish matrix in Azeroth. We have only been in Azeroth, which is the only confirmed titan-made world we know. So... unless Outland was titan-made, we have only seen examples of titanic beings in the planet which served as a testing field... for their new matrix.

I think the vrykul were fleshly since their creation. But, in the other hand, we don't have a confirmation about the original nature of the sea giants.