Bolvar's Blizzcon 2011 Thread

[Bolvar]

Predictions, reactions, commentary, and complaints - all right here.

Just under 3 hours until the opening ceremony - here is what Bolvar expects:


Mists of Pandaria will be announced as the new expansion. This is a lead-pipe lock.
A new class will be revealed. It seems more likely that they'd alternate expansions with classes and races.
Some crap about StarCraft and Diablo will be announced, and Bolvar will not give a rat's ass.
A new primary profession will be announced. Another secondary profession makes no sense, and, hell, Bolvar hasn't even leveled Archaeology past 300 on any character (more on this later).
An additional major game mechanic will be announced. This could be anything from a big graphical engine overhaul to something silly like the dance studio.
More character slots per realm will be made available. It seems highly unlikely that they wouldn't finally address this by the fourth expansion.
What Bolvar would LIKE to see (but probably won't):


Multi-faction Pandaren Brewmaster Hero that can only spec as a tank or a healer.
Outlands re-vamp that will tie in with this expansion or a future one.
Removal of all racial class restrictions.
Tankadins re-vamped to be awesome again.
Cross-realm mail.
Re-vamped profession leveling - grinding to level 600 on anything is stupid.
Every race gets a capitol city. This means the Gnomes get Gnomeregan back for good (or build something substantial elsewhere), Worgen get Gilneas back, Trolls build an actual city, and the Goblins build a capitol in Azshara or Tanaris or Stranglethorn or some damned island somewhere.
Portals in every city, to every city, and incentives to spend time in places other than Orgrimmar and Stormwind.
I will be watching the free broadcast of the opening ceremony on DirecTV, and will get the rest... elsewhere.

[Skytotem]

And now we play the waiting game.

[Bolvar]

Shit they will probably announce that will piss Bolvar off:


Another grindy miserable travel-intensive life-sucking time sink of a secondary profession.
No improvement to the current 5-man heroic model (I still maintain that all heroics should drop at least one piece of epic loot)
Not enough 5-man content - Cata dropped with far too few instances.
More revamped old raid/dungeon shit. And, I swear to God, they'd better leave Karazhan alone.
Only 5 more levels.
More old gods.Honestly, Blizzard needs to avoid all of this lameness and deliver a home run today, because player apathy is at a dangerous level right now, and there's a lot of alternatives on the horizon. Titan is still years away, and if they let WoW go to shit between now and then, they could easily lose half their current player base in the meantime.

[Nozdormu]

I can't wait to see you rage like last year! :kawaii:

[Bolvar]

I can't wait to see you rage like last year! :kawaii:

If I'm compelled to rage like last year, Blizzard is in big trouble.

I got smart and didn't buy the stream this year; I won't have the wasted cash to piss me off; but if the opener is really that bad, then this franchise is a limping gazelle waiting to be picked off by a hungry predator.

[Faine]

Cross-realm mail.


As a person who levels alts like people collect stamps, this is my only wish.

[Akul]

If Blizzard still wants to just have 5 levels per expansion pack, I'd like more zones and choices on where to go. In Cata one of the most common complaints I heard was that people just had 2 places to level up at. For some reason this is a bit silly considering BC just had HFP.

But still, since people have more characters as the game has progressed its only natural to need more areas so you do not get bored.

I kind of want Pandaria not to appear as a major expansion area as it would be out of the blue then. Both Draenor and Northrend have been previously established in lore and we've been there in-game in the RTS'.

And while I remember, Lon asked me to plug Nozdormu's chat. It's the same one from last year. http://xat.com/ScrollsOfLore

[Bolvar]

As a person who levels alts like people collect stamps, this my only wish.

I would expand on that wish by making honor and justice points bind-on-account, so that you can gear your alts with greater ease, but they won't ever do that.

[Nozdormu]

Leviathon's probably gonna find some backdoor like he did last year anyway.

[Bolvar]

Leviathon's probably gonna find some backdoor like he did last year anyway.

That's sort of what I expect. PM me if you like - I doubt open discussion would be smiled upon.

[Nozdormu]

Pfff, I've already bought the virtual ticket so I really couldn't care less.

[jjstraka]

Predictions, reactions, commentary, and complaints - all right here.

Just under 3 hours until the opening ceremony - here is what Bolvar expects:


Mists of Pandaria will be announced as the new expansion. This is a lead-pipe lock.
A new class will be revealed. It seems more likely that they'd alternate expansions with classes and races.
Some crap about StarCraft and Diablo will be announced, and Bolvar will not give a rat's ass.
A new primary profession will be announced. Another secondary profession makes no sense, and, hell, Bolvar hasn't even leveled Archaeology past 300 on any character (more on this later).
An additional major game mechanic will be announced. This could be anything from a big graphical engine overhaul to something silly like the dance studio.
More character slots per realm will be made available. It seems highly unlikely that they wouldn't finally address this by the fourth expansion.
What Bolvar would LIKE to see (but probably won't):


Multi-faction Pandaren Brewmaster Hero that can only spec as a tank or a healer.
Outlands re-vamp that will tie in with this expansion or a future one.
Removal of all racial class restrictions.
Tankadins re-vamped to be awesome again.
Cross-realm mail.
Re-vamped profession leveling - grinding to level 600 on anything is stupid.
Every race gets a capitol city. This means the Gnomes get Gnomeregan back for good (or build something substantial elsewhere), Worgen get Gilneas back, Trolls build an actual city, and the Goblins build a capitol in Azshara or Tanaris or Stranglethorn or some damned island somewhere.
Portals in every city, to every city, and incentives to spend time in places other than Orgrimmar and Stormwind.
I will be watching the free broadcast of the opening ceremony on DirecTV, and will get the rest... elsewhere.

I've been predicting a neutral (in the sense that you can choose your faction) Pandaren hero class (or two, hopefully Monk and Brewmaster, but at least one of them for sure) for the last year or so. Find out in a few hrs i guess.

Doubt we will get a Troll and Gnome city since Cata added two brand new starting zones for both that are going to function as such for the time being.

Some of the racial class restrictions make sense. Gnome Druids and Tauren Rogues simply don't make any sort of sense (not to mention Blizz will never spend the time making a cat, bear, and flying form for 12 differnt races).

[Bolvar]

I've been predicting a neutral (in the sense that you can choose your faction) Pandaren hero class (or two, hopefully Monk and Brewmaster, but at least one of them for sure) for the last year or so. Find out in a few hrs i guess.

Doubt we will get a Troll and Gnome city since Cata added two brand new starting zones for both that are going to function as such for the time being.

Some of the racial class restrictions make sense. Gnome Druids and Tauren Rogues simply don't make any sort of sense (not to mention Blizz will never spend the time making a cat, bear, and flying form for 12 differnt races).

See, I don't believe that these cat/bear/flying forms are all that hard. They have the skeletal work done, it's just skins at this point.

[jjstraka]

See, I don't believe that these cat/bear/flying forms are all that hard. They have the skeletal work done, it's just skins at this point.

True, but you will recall that it took MONTHS to implement the Troll and Worgen flight forms, and YEARS to even get Tauren unique looks from the Night Elves. And whatever happened to those male/female demon models?? (not that it matters since that is a ridiculous idea to begin with). When Blizz does these cosmetic changes it is almost always completely out of the blue and something no one asked for. The new Shadowbolt/Lightning Bolt/Wrath animations are awesome (especially since I have been rocking Elemental lately) but I don't think there was a big outcry from the community for them.

[cosmictimelion]

Really wish I didn't have to work today. Would've bought the virtual ticket. :(

[Bolvar]

Really wish I didn't have to work today. Would've bought the virtual ticket. :(

There are streams you can watch online, if you're at a desk.

[Bolvar]

The DirecTV hosts have been the same for 3 years, at least.

And they SUCK.

Honestly, how difficult would it be to get qualified broadcast professionals to do this event?

[Bolvar]

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2011/october/wow50.jpg

Definitely will be an expansion announced.

[Bolvar]

Oh god. They gave Adrienne Curry a mic.

Clearly, she's one that's meant to be seen and not heard.

[Bolvar]

They're recapping last year's opening ceremony... The worst in history? Really?

[Exxile87]

They're recapping last year's opening ceremony... The worst in history? Really?

GEEK IS!

[cosmictimelion]

There are streams you can watch online, if you're at a desk.

Know a stream with subtitles? No sound on the computer at my work.

[Bolvar]

Know a stream with subtitles? No sound on the computer at my work.

Leviathon has posted several. Not sure if they have subtitles.

You don't have headphones?

[Rotal]

GEEK IS!

Indeed. (http://blip.tv/the-cinema-snob/the-geek-by-the-cinema-snob-4348542)

[Bolvar]

10 minutes talking about lame-ass e-sport tournaments. God, I hate filler content.

[Rotal]

I'm glad we agree on Cata then.

[Gadinhad]

2 minutes in and already I've heard For the Horde!! over 37 times.

[Bolvar]

Morhaime has the same opening line every year.

[Bolvar]

So, of course, NOW I get an urgent call at work...

Go go TiVo, I guess... FML...

[Gadinhad]

OH MY GOD

He's wearing an Alliance shirt

[Bolvar]

Bolvar's Initial Thoughts (as of 2 pm Pacific)


The decision to bundle a free copy of D3, a MoP Beta, and a sweet new mount with a one-year commitment to WoW is a brilliant piece of marketing. And, you could see it on Morhaime's face - he basically just told every other RPG and MMO that has something new coming in the next 12 months, "See what I just did there? Suck it."Because they let it continue monthly billing, it's almost a no-brainer for current WoW subs - you're already paying for it, you get cool free shit, and you get into the beta. Why wouldn't you sign up for it? It's genius, and only Blizzard could pull that off. Corporate Bolvar LOVES this announcement. It's a lesson in marketing and smart capitalism. Observe and learn.


The Diablo 3 trailer did nothing for me. But I'll read the fine print on the annual WoW deal, and I'll probably try my free copy, fully aware that they're putting real-money AH in the game and will try to get me on the back end with the microtransactions.
Metzen had enormous stage fright. Even my eight-year old pointed it out (moments before Metzen himself acknowledged it), "Wow, Dad, he's really nervous... look at his hands shaking." I made some remark about how he was scared poopless to be in front of a crowd of mostly horde fanbois while wearing an alliance hoodie, but I don't think he was paying attention.
MoP concept trailer was pretty much as-expected. New continent, and what I had hoped for - a multi-faction Pandaren with a new Monk class. Excellent design decision. I like that the Monk is also a full hybrid - I would have preferred no DPS tree, but I will be more than happy to tank with a Pandaren Brewmaster.
Giving Monks to the Forsaken is fine... I guess... but if you can justify that, why no Worgen? I get it from a design decision (they can leave the Worgen and Goblin starting areas completely alone, and let every other established race enjoy the new class), but from a lore standpoint, it makes no sense. This is not Bolvar hating on the Forsaken - this is simply pointing out that if a recovering member of the Scourge can become a monk, why shouldn't a Gilnean be able to pull it off? Or a Goblin, for that matter?
I'm cool with the five-level no-fly restriction. I have awesome land mounts that I hardly ever get to use. It makes the world feel a little bigger and more immersive.
I am wary of the overall talent tree changes. It feels like we just did this (because we did), and I didn't care much for the result. This feels like more dumbing-down. But, if it fixes my Paladin tank, I'm sure I'll endorse it.
LOLPOKEMONS. Seriously, vanity pet mini-game is probably preferable to me than, say, Archaeology, but I'm only mildly interested in this.
Non-linear questing. Thank God. The hamster wheel from 80-85 sucked so bad.
Valor points for PvE, group questing queues (PvE scenarios, basically), et cetera - AWESOME. Blizz giving a major nod to casuals. I cannot wait to bask in the warm afterglow of TotalBiscuit's seething rage over this.
Weapon changes - no hunter melee weapon, no ranged weapon or relic for anyone else. Not sure I care for this. Seems stupid that a hunter wouldn't carry a sword or a dagger or something, and I HATE that my warrior will no longer pack a rifle. I mean, they just totally screwed Flintlocke with that. And, what's the point of my warrior being an engineer now? I get goggles and other fun stuff, but now I can't craft any other single piece of useful gear for myself. It's a bit frustrating.
PvP - New BG's look interesting. I think the resilience giveaway is a little bit too much of a nerf - there has been crafted blue BoE resil gear in every expansion that is cheap and provides an adequate entry into PvP - I use it all the time - and I'm not sure this is a necessary change.
New dungeons: We got 15 original 5-mans at TBC's launch. We got 10 original 5-mans with Wrath's launch. We got 7 with Cata's launch. We're getting 6 with MoP.This is a BIG problem. I was really hoping they'd move in the other direction on this point - closer to the Wrath/TBC number, and not LESS than what we got in Cataclysm. Look, Burning Crusade was obviously the richest of all the expansions. Ten levels of tons of content, two new races with two new starting zones, shitloads of dungeons, the works. We got a little less with Wrath, and a LOT less with Cataclysm. In MoP, we're getting one race, one class, 5 levels, and 6 5-mans. It doesn't come close.

Maybe end-game PvE "scenarios" fill the gap here. But, on paper, it looks cheap. Why did we get so much content with Burning Crusade, and then have to settle for less with every consequent expansion? I have trouble accepting this. I also could give a rat's ass about heroic-mode recycled instances - which, lore-wise, make NO sense in the context of the expansion, by the way. What I want is to see something new and unfamiliar in these five-mans, and enjoy loot drops that are not just level 90 versions of the same looking old gear. If Blizz never recycled another 5-man, I'd be ecstatic.


No comment on the challenge-mode dungeons. I didn't see the panel, and I have no idea how this is going to work. I'll wait to comment on this.More later as more information comes to light. In short, I like a lot of what I see, but I have big reservations about the amount of dungeon content and the talent changes. No word on any other profession changes yet - and I really want to see what they have to say about that.

[cosmictimelion]

I cannot wait to bask in the warm afterglow of TotalBiscuit's seething rage over this.

Rofl.

I really wish I could've seen what Metzen looked like. Isn't there a free stream of that on the website? Wanna watch so badly...

[Bolvar]

Rofl.

I really wish I could've seen what Metzen looked like. Isn't there a free stream of that on the website? Wanna watch so badly...

Yeah, I haven't found any video of that yet... I'll post it if I do.

[Rufin]

I'm cool with the five-level no-fly restriction. I have awesome land mounts that I hardly ever get to use. It makes the world feel a little bigger and more immersive.
This makes me happier more than anything else I have heard so far. I HATE seeing everybody flying. I mean sure, everyone will be flying about a month in anyways, but the Land Mounts ALWAYS increase the amount of WPvP and interactions in general with the other players.
That said, I also have some great Land Mounts i want to pull out.

[Bolvar]

Just an observation - WoW Insider (wow.joystiq.com) is beating the CRAP out of MMO-Champion in terms of quality and content of coverage.

So, for those of you not able to watch, I'd check that website out. They have a lot of depth in coverage and very good live blogs.

[Vil'rexin]

The decision to bundle a free copy of D3, a MoP Beta, and a sweet new mount with a one-year commitment to WoW is a brilliant piece of marketing. And, you could see it on Morhaime's face - he basically just told every other RPG and MMO that has something new coming in the next 12 months, "See what I just did there? Suck it."
Because they let it continue monthly billing, it's almost a no-brainer for current WoW subs - you're already paying for it, you get cool free shit, and you get into the beta. Why wouldn't you sign up for it? It's genius, and only Blizzard could pull that off. Corporate Bolvar LOVES this announcement. It's a lesson in marketing and smart capitalism. Observe and learn.I just can't wait for the morons to pop up on the normal forums, screaming, "AMG, WHY CAN'T I CANCEL MUH ACCOUNTZ!!"

[Bolvar]

I just can't wait for the morons to pop up on the normal forums, screaming, "AMG, WHY CAN'T I CANCEL MUH ACCOUNTZ!!"

Yeah, that'd be the fine print I was referring to. I wonder how they handle this if you flat-out cancel the card it's billed to or something.

I would presume your Diablo 3 would stop working (since it's linked to the Battle.Net account, and, like Starcraft 2, probably will require an internet connection to run), and, obviously, your WoW would stop working.

[Vil'rexin]

Yeah, that'd be the fine print I was referring to. I wonder how they handle this if you flat-out cancel the card it's billed to or something.

I would presume your Diablo 3 would stop working (since it's linked to the Battle.Net account, and, like Starcraft 2, probably will require an internet connection to run), and, obviously, your WoW would stop working.There's already idiots crying about it on the general forums. Obviously, some people have never even paid a cell phone bill at the least. I'm kinda surprised Blizzard would honestly just offer this to everyone. This concept called bad credit and all.

[Bolvar]

There's already idiots crying about it on the general forums. Obviously, some people have never even paid a cell phone bill at the least. I'm kinda surprised Blizzard would honestly just offer this to everyone. This concept called bad credit and all.

What does Blizzard have to lose?

If you stop paying, you stop playing. They make their money on Diablo with the microtransactions. It's a no-lose situation.

[Erthad]

http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2011/october/paladin_tier4.jpg
Bolvar what do you think of Holy Shield?

[Vil'rexin]

What does Blizzard have to lose?

If you stop paying, you stop playing. They make their money on Diablo with the microtransactions. It's a no-lose situation.Some reason I was thinking that you would get everything here PHYSICALLY. Disregard that last statement. That was me being a jamoke.

[Bolvar]

Bolvar what do you think of Holy Shield?

I am guessing this is a long way from being done. Assuming the numbers scale correctly and you can use it on yourself, I could see it being very useful.

Honestly, it's just too early to tell. They're obviously sticking to the holy power system (that I hate), so we seem stuck with that.

[Volkrin]

I was kind of disappointed with the final tier of pally talents, especially compared to, say, the Death Knight ones.

[Bolvar]

I was kind of disappointed with the final tier of pally talents, especially compared to, say, the Death Knight ones.

The Death Knights look badass.

What I like, cautiously, about this system is that it really does give you compelling decisions to make that will affect your style of play, without making it all too heavy and cookie-cutter.

The warrior and DK trees achieve this now, with what we see. The Paladin needs more work.

Also, saw this:

"One of the things we're really trying to do with MoP is keep experiences short and focused. HoO had seven bosses, Deadmines has 6." Too long. We want you to be able to clear this content without having to devote an entire night to it. Being able to complete dungeons faster means opportunities to do more stuff.

I agree with this 100%.

[Erthad]

I want to see the old WotLK Sacred Shield come back, that plus this Holy Shield would be awesome.

I think a lot of the hand talents look really la,e as well but fist of justice or what ever looks awesome.

[Bolvar]

I want to see the old WotLK Sacred Shield come back, that plus this Holy Shield would be awesome.



Agreed.

Paladins were awesome in Wrath. I don't enjoy mine at all now.

[Sayomara]

I know vares blizzard folks have been wanting to moving to this perk system and away from talent trees because they feel current system is only an illusion of choice. But I don't really see how that is going away in fact I think almost any system with more than 1 choice in it i likely to have community favorite. Seems like they want a call of duty style system so they are putting it in. I guess we will see how it works out. I'm sure these pools will look nothing like this in a year.

I cannot wait to bask in the warm afterglow of TotalBiscuit's seething rage over this.

I think we will all enjoy that. Granted I'm sure if it makes him money he will go back to making wow Videos.

[Bolvar]

I think we will all enjoy that. Granted I'm sure if it makes him money he will go back to making wow Videos.

He's already making snide comments in today's video about how "WoW is dead to me" and that "ethics mean more than income" at the suggestion that he might do beta vids for Mists.

He bit the hand. That's all there is to it. Blizz is giving Beta keys out like candy for Mists, and TotalBiscuit will not be the only one with a copy of Fraps and the ability to coherently narrate content walk-throughs. Now he's playing internet-tough-guy over the whole thing; fact is, the subscriber base for the other games he's shilling (GW2, Star Wars whatever...) is infinitesimal by comparison to WoW.

If he wants to pay his bills, he'll change his mind, and we'll all gleefully brand him as a hypocrite. Or, he'll have to find work elsewhere; because he got fat on the Cata beta videos, and that's a fact. He won't maintain that subscriber base by shunning WoW.

[ShinMaruku]

Given the fact that he has an extensive network of contacts the hot from wow won't effect him too much.
As for mists, the whole ideas are very good but that does not help my issue, it's still a hotkey mmo, Old Republic won't do it for me, this will not either. But Diablo is looking very sexy.

[Ku'ja]

He's already making snide comments in today's video about how "WoW is dead to me" and that "ethics mean more than income" at the suggestion that he might do beta vids for Mists.

He bit the hand. That's all there is to it. Blizz is giving Beta keys out like candy for Mists, and TotalBiscuit will not be the only one with a copy of Fraps and the ability to coherently narrate content walk-throughs. Now he's playing internet-tough-guy over the whole thing; fact is, the subscriber base for the other games he's shilling (GW2, Star Wars whatever...) is infinitesimal by comparison to WoW.

If he wants to pay his bills, he'll change his mind, and we'll all gleefully brand him as a hypocrite. Or, he'll have to find work elsewhere; because he got fat on the Cata beta videos, and that's a fact. He won't maintain that subscriber base by shunning WoW.

What irritates me with TB is that he is thinking way into the new MMO style to much thinking it will take over yet games like Star Wars and Rift still get popular. I mean i love new gamestyles within MMO's like upcoming stuff like Guild Wars 2 and Warhammer 40k Online but i cannot say that the majority does and i can literally only see Guild Wars 2 pulling off cutting quite a few of WoW's PvP base yet Blizzard know this which is why they are adding more diverse Battlegrounds.

Not to mention all the stuff he cried about originally are actually getting implemented with the next patch and the new expac...

Still a fan of his but his buthurtness needs to end i think because i totally see him going into MoP beta when other people covering it like Jesse and a few new people on the scene go all out on this beta.

[ShinMaruku]

The trick with new gameplay styles is you get new different people one does not need to leech of another to be successful Wow did not do that it made new fans, and as for wanting a new style of game coming out I don't see a thing wrong with that, why would anybody try to knock Blizzard off it's roost when they can't at their own game?
I can see both angles and they both have their place. That and I'm glad wow is where it is keeps Blizzard to make other new things. I will give them credit in doing other things rather than sitting their asses soley on their cash cow. (I'm looking at you Infinity Ward and Dice)

[Reyson]

He's already making snide comments in today's video about how "WoW is dead to me" and that "ethics mean more than income" at the suggestion that he might do beta vids for Mists.

He bit the hand. That's all there is to it. Blizz is giving Beta keys out like candy for Mists, and TotalBiscuit will not be the only one with a copy of Fraps and the ability to coherently narrate content walk-throughs. Now he's playing internet-tough-guy over the whole thing; fact is, the subscriber base for the other games he's shilling (GW2, Star Wars whatever...) is infinitesimal by comparison to WoW.

If he wants to pay his bills, he'll change his mind, and we'll all gleefully brand him as a hypocrite. Or, he'll have to find work elsewhere; because he got fat on the Cata beta videos, and that's a fact. He won't maintain that subscriber base by shunning WoW.

Except youknow... he already has. He hasn't done anything WoW related in months and still his subscriberbase is steadily going up. Sure, the cata beta videos got him the attention he needed to take off as a youtuber, but he's doing fine without WoW. It's not like people have to choose to either watch his videos or watch some other guy's MoP videos.
I don't get what the fuck your problem is with him not playing WoW or making videos about it. So the guy stopped making his WoW videos out of principle, good for him for sticking with it. He moved on to the other games because that's what he wants to play, not because that's where the biggest audience is at. Even with the decline, WoW will be the most popular MMO for quite some time.
You can bitch and whine all you want about him "getting to play videogames for a living"(which was basicly what you were whining about last time), but clearly he's good at it otherwise he would've died out after Cata beta or after he stopped playing WoW.
The guy has good knowledge of videogames, he makes quality videos and introduces people to many games that they otherwise wouldn't have known about.


Also, why does bolvar seemingly needs to make his own personal threads everytime and not post the opinions in the already existing threads?
Secondly, why is bolvar talking in 3rd person again, it's clearly not the 3rd of March yet?

[Ku'ja]

Except youknow... he already has. He hasn't done anything WoW related in months and still his subscriberbase is steadily going up. Sure, the cata beta videos got him the attention he needed to take off as a youtuber, but he's doing fine without WoW. It's not like people have to choose to either watch his videos or watch some other guy's MoP videos.
I don't get what the fuck your problem is with him not playing WoW or making videos about it. So the guy stopped making his WoW videos out of principle, good for him for sticking with it. He moved on to the other games because that's what he wants to play, not because that's where the biggest audience is at. Even with the decline, WoW will be the most popular MMO for quite some time.
You can bitch and whine all you want about him "getting to play videogames for a living"(which was basicly what you were whining about last time), but clearly he's good at it otherwise he would've died out after Cata beta or after he stopped playing WoW.
The guy has good knowledge of videogames, he makes quality videos and introduces people to many games that they otherwise wouldn't have known about.


Also, why does bolvar seemingly needs to make his own personal threads everytime and not post the opinions in the already existing threads?
Secondly, why is bolvar talking in 3rd person again, it's clearly not the 3rd of March yet?

He quit WoW for so many reasons and the stuff he wanted into WoW is not being added... More end game content levels for casuals to do etc with the Raid Finder and he wanted the 3 man dungeons which is basically what we are getting and more diverse PvP which we are getting...

He's beginning to irritate me because the Cata Beta was what made him huge in the first place because he built upon it yet these days every time he talks about WoW its always bashing the shit out of it. He should also look at the damn positives because there are a shit load and in his im done with WoW still and no Mists of Pandaria beta video his only bad mojo with this expansion was not enough info on the Alliance vs Horde part... He hates Warcraft Lore and we will definitely get more info on the Horde vs the Alliance on the Lore panel tomorrow.

He is now just nit picking.

Im a fan of this guy and what he does with the Indie scene but come on.

[HalfElfDragon]

Also, why does bolvar seemingly needs to make his own personal threads everytime and not post the opinions in the already existing threads?

He has an inflated self-image?

[Reyson]

He's beginning to irritate me because the Cata Beta was what made him huge in the first place because he built upon it yet these days every time he talks about WoW its always bashing the shit out of it. He should also look at the damn positives because there are a shit load and in his im done with WoW still and no Mists of Pandaria beta video his only bad mojo with this expansion was not enough info on the Alliance vs Horde part... He hates Warcraft Lore and we will definitely get more info on the Horde vs the Alliance on the Lore panel tomorrow.

He is now just nit picking.

Im a fan of this guy and what he does with the Indie scene but come on.

From what I understand he's just sick of the game, which is the case with many people that have played it for a long time. That makes it harder to be excited for the expansion.
I do agree that it's foolish of him to bash the game that helped him get big.

[ShinMaruku]

I don't think it's much of him really bashing the game. He did give cata a lot of credit and as time went on he saw the potential in his eyes squandered and soured on it. I don't see it much of bashing. he gives starcraft 2 all the credit in the world though.

I think he's moved on from wow.
Often time some people really move away from what gave them their start it happens. But he does do damn good content and if he didn't that boost would not have had much of an effect.

I can understand why he moved on from the game, in many ways I have moved on as well but I do enjoy the IP and the story and hope maybe someday I'll get another game to enjoy the P from.

I might give this expac a shot though. But level 1-90 is gonna piss me off.:angry:

[Killchrono]

He's beginning to irritate me because the Cata Beta was what made him huge in the first place because he built upon it yet these days every time he talks about WoW its always bashing the shit out of it. He should also look at the damn positives because there are a shit load and in his im done with WoW still and no Mists of Pandaria beta video his only bad mojo with this expansion was not enough info on the Alliance vs Horde part... He hates Warcraft Lore and we will definitely get more info on the Horde vs the Alliance on the Lore panel tomorrow.

He is now just nit picking.

Im a fan of this guy and what he does with the Indie scene but come on.

Criticizing him for abandoning WoW after making it big is like criticizing actors for deciding to do music after they make it big, or a director for trying a new genre of movies after making it big with another genre. There's nothing which says they HAVE to stick to one thing. WoW was a springboard for his v-blogging, and even before he made it big on YouTube he dabbled in general gaming reviews and commentary when he did his podcasting.

As Grim said, if his fans are diehard WoW supporters and they hate his opinion, they'll unsubscribe and his numbers will go down. But there's a very good chance they won't. He's got other reviews, hes got Starcraft shoutcasts, hes got his Terraria crossovers with Jesse Cox, and people are genuinely interested in his opinion enough to keep sending him emails for his mailbag. His popularity is not going to die overnight just because he decides he's not impressed with MoP.

[Rotal]

*insert random TB sarcastic flame here, followed up by rational comment on his bad behaviour*

[Vil'rexin]

Man, TotalBiscuit seems to be a pretty polarizing person on these boards. I've only listened to a few of his videos but there's just something I don't like about him. Honestly can't put my finger on it. Perhaps I need to check out a few more videos.

[Rotal]

This.... THING you have as an avatar looks like the fel bastard-child of the Easter rabit and the energizer rabit.

Also, TB in short description: internet tough guy, hippocrit, elitist, stophavingfun-guys. That's probably why you don't like him, it's just in his nature to be unlikeable.

[ctesiphon]

This.... THING you have as an avatar looks like the fel bastard-child of the Easter rabit and the energizer rabit.

That thing is the Pandarian equivalent of a Kobold.

As for TB, I don't know what all the fuss is all about. He made one vid months ago explaining what are his problems with Cata - about which he was very enthusiastic at first, just like I was - and one short video now, which wasn't him ranting. Did you even watch it? I'm sure after Blizzcon opening he's got a ton of emails asking if he's going to cover the beta, hell for a short while I wanted to write one but I realised he's clearly already received a ton - and he answered that question.

[Ku'ja]

Criticizing him for abandoning WoW after making it big is like criticizing actors for deciding to do music after they make it big, or a director for trying a new genre of movies after making it big with another genre. There's nothing which says they HAVE to stick to one thing. WoW was a springboard for his v-blogging, and even before he made it big on YouTube he dabbled in general gaming reviews and commentary when he did his podcasting.

As Grim said, if his fans are diehard WoW supporters and they hate his opinion, they'll unsubscribe and his numbers will go down. But there's a very good chance they won't. He's got other reviews, hes got Starcraft shoutcasts, hes got his Terraria crossovers with Jesse Cox, and people are genuinely interested in his opinion enough to keep sending him emails for his mailbag. His popularity is not going to die overnight just because he decides he's not impressed with MoP.

I am a fan of his videos and what he does and i am not to fussed that he has chose to stick away from WoW but basically what i was getting at was the constant bashing he gives it when he mentions it in his videos of either looking at another MMO or whatever. Im not one of the ones that are raging at him for leaving WoW and would love for him to focus on Guild Wars 2 but yeah he has praised games he dislikes in the past when it comes to puzzle games etc.

It might only be me but it seems hes trying to alienate his fans really because he knows he has influence you can see that when he shows everyone the Indie scene and it just feels like hes trying to get people to dislike WoW because he does mention it being inferior soo damn much.


That thing is the Pandarian equivalent of a Kobold.

As for TB, I don't know what all the fuss is all about. He made one vid months ago explaining what are his problems with Cata - about which he was very enthusiastic at first, just like I was - and one short video now, which wasn't him ranting. Did you even watch it? I'm sure after Blizzcon opening he's got a ton of emails asking if he's going to cover the beta, hell for a short while I wanted to write one but I realised he's clearly already received a ton - and he answered that question.

You missed a good 100 episodes on other MMO's of him bashing the shit out of the game then and basically saying that its about to end its reign and another will take its place... Its funny because he contradicts the hell out of himself with his Mailbox videos as he says that a game is not bad just because you hate it and i had respect for TB when he first left WoW because he did it due to him thinking that it did not cater to his audience anymore but you will not hear him say that these days.

[Rotal]

Did you even watch it?
Why would i? I canceled my subscription when he whined about the 4.2 nerfs and stopped azeroth daily, which's mailbox was the only reason i went to his channel. I don't give a crap about his opinion on Mists of Pandaria.

[ctesiphon]

I saw quite a lot of his vids on GW2 (and like one on SWTOR because I don't really like Star Wars), and I wasn't under impression he's bashing WoW - maybe because I agree with him, I was super excited about Cataclysm, and now I'm disappointed.

I mean, WoW's a 7 year old game and even if I love it to death it has clear flaws and both of it's soon to be competitors are going to be technologically superior, and on the other hand, it's been, and still is, so dominant in it's genre that it's hard to avoid comparisons if you are talking about a new MMO.

[Killchrono]

Man, TotalBiscuit seems to be a pretty polarizing person on these boards. I've only listened to a few of his videos but there's just something I don't like about him. Honestly can't put my finger on it. Perhaps I need to check out a few more videos.

He is quite arrogant and patronizing in his opinions. I listen to him because I agree with a lot of his opinions, and when he's funny he's genuinely very funny. But he's a self-proclaimed shock jock, and normally I don't listen to shock jocks on principle, so I don't blame others for not liking him in the slightest.

Plus don't get me started on whenever he says 'sperging out'. Normally I take Aspie jokes with great stride, but the way he delivers them is borderline offensive.


It might only be me but it seems hes trying to alienate his fans really because he knows he has influence you can see that when he shows everyone the Indie scene and it just feels like hes trying to get people to dislike WoW because he does mention it being inferior soo damn much.

Like I said above, he's a shock jock. Trust me, I hate defending any sort of condescending attitude, but that's pretty much his shtick. It's like Yahtzee said early in his first few videos, if he acts nice all the time then it sucks a good deal of the entertainment value out of it.

Honestly, he's done it before with WoW. He basically spent all of Wrath moaning about how easy the game was and how class design was balls fail. I agreed with him and even I got sick of it. I agree with his opinions, but I also agree that he's a whingy broken record when it comes to his pet peeves.

[Lon-ami]

It's a pity you weren't able to enter the chat, Bolvar, we had so much fun :S.

Agree with pretty much everything you posted, btw.

The D3-for-free thing, in particular, is a genius move, but only for people that play WoW usually. 12 months paying: d3 releaed in 4 months, MoP released in 8. They hold their players with this. Their biggest problem, the lack of content before the new expansion, is solved. They have a secured subscription and D3, and then players only need to buy MoP and try it without monthly payment because they already paid.

They're making sure people will try MoP, and are using D3 for it.

I love the new gameplay of WoW. It's looking fantastic. But the lore, in the other side... meh, I'm not convinced.

And while I remember, Lon asked me to plug Nozdormu's chat. It's the same one from last year. http://xat.com/ScrollsOfLore

Thanks for coming :P.

GEEK IS!

GREED IS!

[Ku'ja]

Like I said above, he's a shock jock. Trust me, I hate defending any sort of condescending attitude, but that's pretty much his shtick. It's like Yahtzee said early in his first few videos, if he acts nice all the time then it sucks a good deal of the entertainment value out of it.

Honestly, he's done it before with WoW. He basically spent all of Wrath moaning about how easy the game was and how class design was balls fail. I agreed with him and even I got sick of it. I agree with his opinions, but I also agree that he's a whingy broken record when it comes to his pet peeves.

I have watched and listened to his stuff since he began Blue Plz on WoWRadio so yes i have watched a lot of his stuff and listened to all of his stuff... He is British and acts very much like it within the Gaming industry as we all like a good moan and we laugh about it. Hes great at what he does but hes finished with WoW as he has said himself and needs to stop going back to compare it to constantly try and overshadow it >.<.


GREED IS!

Really? Really? Really?

[ShinMaruku]

The fact that's he;s so critical of things shows that he has really high standards so when he gives something credit it really has some things going for it. Of course when something falls short it seems like he brutalizes it. But I think it's just part of his personality

[Lon-ami]

Really? Really? Really?

I couldn't resist! xDDD

[Bolvar]

Aside from disliking his attitude in general, my biggest problem with him is that he clearly used World of Warcraft as a springboard to fame, and is now content to shit all over it. It smacks of hyperegotistical ingratitude.

As for the reason why I started my own thread - hey, nobody's making you read it. I am usually not on much on the weekends and I can't keep up with the 32 other Blizzcon threads that are spewing out discussions on a million different topics - so I choose to keep my own points consolidated in once place, and then discuss them with folks who are generous enough with their time to come and read.

It's not that I think I'm any better than anyone - I just can't maintain the pace of discussion that is going on elsewhere.

[Rotal]

so I choose to keep my own points consolidated in once place, and then discuss them with folks who are generous enough with their time to come and read.
you're welcome ^^

[Killchrono]

Aside from disliking his attitude in general, my biggest problem with him is that he clearly used World of Warcraft as a springboard to fame, and is now content to shit all over it. It smacks of hyperegotistical ingratitude.


Wait, Bolvar criticizing someone for being opinionated and egotistical?

Lawwwwwwwwwwwl.

Anyway, TB might be egotistical, but you can't deny he's at least genuine. He's always covered what hes wanted too, even before he made it big. He's just very lucky he made it big doing the Cataclysm beta videos. That doesn't mean he's indebted to WoW; heck, if he's unhappy with the game, better he's honest about it than sticking with something he doesn't genuinely like anymore.

Like I said, if his subscribers are unhappy with this, they'll leave him, he'll wither away into nothing, and then you can jump him for his WoW videos being the only thing that made him big.

Besides, it's not like he's being completely ungrateful to Blizzard as a whole. He's still covering the D3 beta, and he has an entire channel dedicated to Starcraft shoutcasts. It's not like he's shitting all over the company as a whole.

[Ashendant]

Bolvar did you see the art panel? what do you think of it?

[Bolvar]

Bolvar did you see the art panel? what do you think of it?

Nah, I was unable to watch most of it. What'd I miss?

[Rotal]

Awesome Animations mostly. Still don't like the new Panda design but damnit it's great on a technical level.

[Bolvar]

Awesome Animations mostly. Still don't like the new Panda design but damnit it's great on a technical level.

Ah. I'll check it out.

Just wondering - why are so many people pissed about the Pandaren expansion in general?

[Rotal]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/76/Kungfupanda.jpg/220px-Kungfupanda.jpg
It's because of Kung Fu Panda. People think it will be all cutesy and childish, ignoring the fact that the Alliance Horde war is probably the main focus besides adventuring Pandaria in general. Metzen got rather upset about this mindset during his panels. I'm rather optmistic about the expansion as a whole, even though i really don't like the Pandaren design. They showed the old one from TBC and i think it looks more apropriate, but that's probably just me. The new one just slams into our faces how OLD the majority of our characters are.

[HalfElfDragon]

I think its because they think the Pandaren are a joke. Maybe, I dunno. I think its mostly complaining to complain.

[Vil'rexin]

Ah. I'll check it out.

Just wondering - why are so many people pissed about the Pandaren expansion in general?Something about how Pandaren are Jack Black/Kung Fu Pandas and that a race that is simply a joke as a mini-pet despite the fact they are in WC3 is unoriginal.

That and "Y U NO SARGERAS" or some nonsense.

[Ku'ja]

Ah. I'll check it out.

Just wondering - why are so many people pissed about the Pandaren expansion in general?

Most people who play WoW and never played Wc3 always thought they were a joke and are idiots that think Kung Fu Panda is the original... Yet even if they read up on Chinese culture they would learn that so many things are based of them like Wukong from LoL and the Monkey King from HoN etc.

[Killchrono]

Most people who play WoW and never played Wc3 always thought they were a joke and are idiots that think Kung Fu Panda is the original... Yet even if they read up on Chinese culture they would learn that so many things are based of them like Wukong from LoL and the Monkey King from HoN etc.

It's amazing how few people were aware of the existence of Pandaren in lore. I understand people not liking the concept, but there were some people accusing Blizzard of outright ripping off Kung-fu Panda and having made them and Pandria up on the spot.

[Vil'rexin]

In other related news, the official forums are swamped with that stupid LGBT bullshit.

[Rotal]

Why do you read that hellhole? There's lovecraftian lore not as twisted and cruel as those boards.

[Vil'rexin]

Why do you read that hellhole? There's lovecraftian lore not as twisted and cruel as those boards.More like skimming through the topics but I get a kick out of the fact there's more discussion about LGBT than Mists of Pandaria 2 days after it's been revealed. The issue is so polarizing and is a perfect example of why Blizzard just needs to stay away from it.

Humans are fascinating creatures Rotal.

[Rotal]

I studied Rule 34. "Fascination" is one of the last words i would describe humanity with.


seriously. a toothbrush? THERE?

[Killchrono]

In other related news, the official forums are swamped with that stupid LGBT bullshit.

As in homophobes being pissed off at the idea of a LGBT character, or as in mass push for LGBT?

[Vil'rexin]

As in homophobes being pissed off at the idea of a LGBT character, or as in mass push for LGBT?Both.

[Killchrono]

Both.

Eh. Honestly, I have more sympathy for homosexuals than homophobes.

Put in a LGBT character just to spite them, I say. The LGBT crowd will stop making a big deal about it when everyone else stops making a big deal about there being a problem.

[Vil'rexin]

Eh. Honestly, I have more sympathy for homosexuals than homophobes.

Put in a LGBT character just to spite them, I say. The LGBT crowd will stop making a big deal about it when everyone else stops making a big deal about there being a problem.I'm more in the "Does it really matter?" crowd. There's plenty of literature and other video games that appeal to homosexuals. If we start making characters to appease the LGBT crowd, what about the Hispanic crowd? African-American crowd? So forth and so forth...

It's just something I'd prefer to see left untouched.

[Killchrono]

I'm more in the "Does it really matter?" crowd. There's plenty of literature and other video games that appeal to homosexuals. If we start making characters to appease the LGBT crowd, what about the Hispanic crowd? African-American crowd? So forth and so forth...

It's just something I'd prefer to see left untouched.

Well, race is a very different issue in Warcraft in that it deals with a lot of sentient non-human races that are pretty much analogies of real-life human cultures.

I do get what you mean. I just think they should do it, but not just to appease the LGBT crowd. They should do it if it works in the context of the story.

[Vil'rexin]

I do get what you mean. I just think they should do it, but not just to appease the LGBT crowd. They should do it if it works in the context of the story.Pretty much agreed.

[Cantus]

Kasarax has the right of it, there's no reason to address something that open's up the Pandora's Box of "but what about (x), they're portrayed badly in (y)?!" LGBT shouldn't be a prominent issue, it should be incidental and subtle.

On another unrelated note, Monks, fun concept, poor execution. They're combat is too slow to merit the button mashing concept. Tweak regeneration mechanics and revamp the UI. Oh and they need to redo the training regimen so it models Wing Chun, where each portion of the training (kicks, punches, etc.) is associated with a portion of the Muk Yan Jong. Pace it properly and people will get the flow of degeneration/regeneration more easily than just using punching bags. They should probably do the same revamp for Rogues, Warriors, and Death Knights as well, so flow based combat becomes the rule instead of the exception.

[Omacron]

Is it wrong that I keep thinking GLBT is some kind of sandwich? Especially considering how much time I spend in greenwich village...

[Vil'rexin]

L = Lettuce

G = Guacomole

B = Bacon

T = Tomato

Duh.

[Volkrin]

Is it wrong that I keep thinking GLBT is some kind of sandwich?

Giggity.

[Warlock]

I still say the two chicks in Arathi Highlands are lesbians.

Also, someone actually made an article on this:
http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=2896

:P (though I totally disagree with them on Asric and Jadaar - they seem to be more of an odd couple type situation. They are more brought together by similar circumstances - both having and then losing the same job together, and sort of hate each other but are still friends at the same time)

Edit: And yes, Chi regens WAY too slowly right now. It's kind of painfully boring to play a monk without auto attack because you spend a lot of time waiting for enough chi just to mash your "I need light/dark energy button." Honestly IMO that skill should be free, or super, super cheap.

Either way, they are *really* similar to Rogues right now. Light/Dark Energy are basically combo points tied to the character rather than the mob, you build them with certain moves and then spend them on finishers. I'm hoping they vary the playstyle up a bit so they aren't quite so similar. But the impression I got is that they really are not far along with the class at all right now. They wouldn't even let me *view* my talents at level 10 in the demo.

[Insane Guy of Doom]

Why are the WoW forums engaged in an LGBT debate? Did Blizzard announce something that I missed?

[Skytotem]

Why are the WoW forums engaged in an LGBT debate? Did Blizzard announce something that I missed?

It was a blizzcon question.

A lady asked if there would be more LGBT characters and there was alot of awkwardness (at least it seemed like that to me) but the response was "sure, why not?"

[Sayomara]

Kasarax has the right of it, there's no reason to address something that open's up the Pandora's Box of "but what about (x), they're portrayed badly in (y)?!" LGBT shouldn't be a prominent issue, it should be incidental and subtle.


Bioware proved not to long ago this was a no win issue. They came out strongly in favor of Homosexual relationships and given strong pat on the back for standing tall for diversity. And then were quickly stabbed in the back by the same people for showing Homsexuals(Anders in Dragon Age 2) as a bad person. Its a no win.

[Omacron]

I just kind of always assumed that night elves were bisexual due to the way their society was stratified and took the implication that Naisha and Maiev were lovers. Obviously enough of them are heterosexual to maintain the population but the men and women are separated for thousands of years, and when that happens you're gonna need some companionship.

[Bolvar]

I still say the two chicks in Arathi Highlands are lesbians.


That's pretty obvious, and it's exactly how it should be handled - they don't come right out and say "BTW, we're also sleeping with each other," because that would be abnormally stupid and gratuitous.

Back to the original topic - I like the concept of the Monk class. While the early play demos might be uninspiring, I think they've got a year or so to get it right. And, if it ends up being like a rogue, well, what's wrong with that? Many classes share similar play styles and resource limitations; I see no reason why a melee combat class can't be like another melee combat class.

As for the criticism regarding the "frivolity" of the Pandaren race, well, I just don't see the problem with it. We have an opportunity to explore an entirely new and fresh culture, new villains, new landscapes, and new stories. For the first time, World of Warcraft is making a serious break from the same re-hashed stories from the old RTS, and that's a long-overdue relief. Let's face it - Vanilla, Burning Crusade, Wrath, and Cataclysm all merely built upon aging story lines. Mists of Pandaria has a chance to break a lot of new ground, and I think the Pandaren culture could be fantastic.

My only remaining concerns are:


The implementation of the new talent system (I'm still not sold; and I'm afraid it will break my Death Knight the way the last re-vamp broke my Paladin - I'm getting sick of having to find a new class to fit my playstyle with each expansion).
The character slot issue. They touched on this a bit in the panels, and I really hope they do what they suggested. They almost have to do something about it, because they now have more classes than character slots per realm.
Lack of new 5-mans - I really hope the new end-game PvE "scenario" model makes up for this.

[Rotal]

Relevant. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qsxlMPLm_jo)
More reaction when i'm done with my salat.

Monk: I'm allready sold on the concept, i need to play it, though. Probably not going to tank with it, but the healing method sounds like exactly what i predicted, which nto only strokes my e-peen but makes tons of sense for getting more healers in the Dungeon Finder. I asume the Brewmaster will play out similar to early Death Knights and current Druids; more offensive gameplay with the added bonus of being able to tank´whilest feeling like a DPS.

Lack of 5mans: i noticed that too, but as you said, the challenges, szenarios and most importantly Raid Finder will make up for this. From your posts in the past i think we feel both rather similar in regards to waisting time for a normal raid; Raid Finder with three dungeons (that may end up being split like Dragon Soul) could make up at least three up to six pug-raids a week. Add heroics to that which Blizzard wants to make easier again and i'm pretty optimistic about it now that i know more than just "9 Dungeons" from the trailer. It helps immensly that Scarlet Monestery is my all time favourite leveling dungeon group - really looking forward to those.

Charslots: I'm confident they will introduce the method talked about at Blizzcon. It can't be THAT difficult to do this and would make a LOT of people VERY happy. (And it also would solve the Heirloom Problem in the future, though i don't see them waisting income by giving us free realm change for every toon once that happens)

Talent Trees: i feel similar. I like the general idea, but three talents in six tiers for 90 just doesn't seem like much to me. Also, i like cooky cutter speccs and this change won't kill them. But i will rage about it once we know which spells and attacks become specc/class specific.

I am still pissed about losing my rifle.

[Bolvar]

I am still pissed about losing my rifle.

Agreed, but the reason they gave for this makes sense. On a warrior, it was a useless stat stick, along with relics, librams, totems, et cetera. If it keeps hunters from rolling on my melee gear, and keeps rogues from rolling on hunter ranged weapons, it's probably a good thing.

But they need to give Engineers something to compensate. Right now, the only crafted goods I have are goggles and rifles. As a warrior, the rifle does me no good anymore, so I'd like to get something else back.

[Rotal]

They said they know we have been neglected. Paraphrased: "There's so much we could do with it, it could be it's own class if it wasn't allready a craft."
It was somewhere in the Open QA, i think; they know it and want to do better with the next add on. Personally i'll believe it once i see it, no sooner, no later, but i'll stay Ingi if, for nothing else, my bike, Jeeves and the mailbox.

(And yeah, i understand too, but come on... just taking it away is a dick move, just like the crap they did with tree of life. Also it fucks up my RP.)

[Bolvar]

Just thought of something...

Refurbishing Scarlet Monastery and Scholomance makes no sense in the context of this expansion - unless they're doing something big with the Forsaken.

Which kind of annoys me.

Did that race NOT get enough attention in Wrath? If you're going to recycle old instances for the sake of building racial lore, why not re-do Auchindoun or something, and give the Draenei a little love?

[Skytotem]

Just thought of something...

Refurbishing Scarlet Monastery and Scholomance makes no sense in the context of this expansion - unless they're doing something big with the Forsaken.

Which kind of annoys me.

Did that race NOT get enough attention in Wrath? If you're going to recycle old instances for the sake of building racial lore, why not re-do Auchindoun or something, and give the Draenei a little love?

I am 99% certain that it's intended to wrap up the Koltira thing.

Sylvanas will die, the Forsaken will be put under new management, and something ominous will be said that will simmer for two or three expansions until Blizz is ready to use them again.

[Ku'ja]

Just thought of something...

Refurbishing Scarlet Monastery and Scholomance makes no sense in the context of this expansion - unless they're doing something big with the Forsaken.

Which kind of annoys me.

Did that race NOT get enough attention in Wrath? If you're going to recycle old instances for the sake of building racial lore, why not re-do Auchindoun or something, and give the Draenei a little love?

You never know it could be the Alliance instead or just the Argent Crusade taking out the trash type of Lore.

I would say they are doing it because its a very popular dungeon but SM really is the only popular one i can think of out of the two.

[Warlock]

Just thought of something...

Refurbishing Scarlet Monastery and Scholomance makes no sense in the context of this expansion - unless they're doing something big with the Forsaken.

Which kind of annoys me.

Did that race NOT get enough attention in Wrath? If you're going to recycle old instances for the sake of building racial lore, why not re-do Auchindoun or something, and give the Draenei a little love?

To be fair, neither did Deadmines really.

[Bolvar]

To be fair, neither did Deadmines really.

Nope, other than to advance the Defias storyline... to nowhere...

And I bitched about those re-vamps as well.

[Rotal]

SM is a fan favourite (not sure about Scholo, personally i'd hate that place if it wouldn't grant close to 2 lvls of quest XP), they could just intend to leave it as it is and polish it a bit. But since it's the one place in the world where monk-like mobs exist, i somehow suspect the Pandaren to get involved. Not really because of a good reason, it's just that or it won't be related at all. Also, as mentioned, could be about Koltira, showing his brainwashed form in action for the first time or something like that. But my money lies in a simple remake in two parts and honestly, i wouldn't mind. Love that place.

[Bolvar]

SM is a fan favourite (not sure about Scholo, personally i'd hate that place if it wouldn't grant close to 2 lvls of quest XP), they could just intend to leave it as it is and polish it a bit. But since it's the one place in the world where monk-like mobs exist, i somehow suspect the Pandaren to get involved. Not really because of a good reason, it's just that or it won't be related at all. Also, as mentioned, could be about Koltira, showing his brainwashed form in action for the first time or something like that. But my money lies in a simple remake in two parts and honestly, i wouldn't mind. Love that place.

Nah, it's just gonna be more Forsaken service in both instances. I'd bet money on it. Sylvanas is getting built up for something.

[Rotal]

She's getting build up since Warcraft 3... If something big would happen to her it would be part of some event. I doubt they'd cash it out into a dungeon where everyone would just skip it because watching Lore doesn't give you valor points. A raid, maybe.

[Vil'rexin]

Sylvanas is totally getting built up as a big bad for Warcraft 4. If she died as a raid boss in WoW, Forsaken QQ would be off the charts.

[Rotal]

And i would feast on it like Ghostcrawler.

[Saranus]

How does everyone else feel about the Frankenstein chop job they did on the SM and scholo instances. I think an essential part of the nostaligia was the layout of these dungeons. If they want to change the dungeon to have a more cohesive flow, they should knock some walls/floors in to create more direct routes. The way the maps from Blizzcon showed it, the Cemetary and Cathedral are smushed into one linear instance that doesn't resemble the originals. The bosses are all the same throughout: Thalanos, Doan, Locksey, Herod, and yes, even Mograine.

I didn't hate the Cata heroic revamps. It was kind of cool having the heroic difficulty experience in the nostalgic setting. DM, SFK, ZA, and ZG were all perfectly fine to me. Of course, I will never forgive them for failing to revamp Blackrock Depths.

[Rotal]

I think it's ok, you spare yourself running out of the dungeon this way and you usually play all four dungeons in a row anyways.

[Omacron]

How does everyone else feel about the Frankenstein chop job they did on the SM and scholo instances. I think an essential part of the nostaligia was the layout of these dungeons. If they want to change the dungeon to have a more cohesive flow, they should knock some walls/floors in to create more direct routes. The way the maps from Blizzcon showed it, the Cemetary and Cathedral are smushed into one linear instance that doesn't resemble the originals. The bosses are all the same throughout: Thalanos, Doan, Locksey, Herod, and yes, even Mograine.

I didn't hate the Cata heroic revamps. It was kind of cool having the heroic difficulty experience in the nostalgic setting. DM, SFK, ZA, and ZG were all perfectly fine to me. Of course, I will never forgive them for failing to revamp Blackrock Depths.
I really wanted to ask, at various points, how the story for the revamped SM and Scholo instances would fit in considering the Scarlets and Scourge were essentially neutralized in WotLK, two expacs ago.

[Insane Guy of Doom]

I really wanted to ask, at various points, how the story for the revamped SM and Scholo instances would fit in considering the Scarlets and Scourge were essentially neutralized in WotLK, two expacs ago.

Scholomance is okay, as Darkmaster Gandling is revealed to still be alive during the updated Western Plaguelands quests. But it seems like these heroics will be non-canon anyway.

[Garotar]

Scholomance is okay, as Darkmaster Gandling is revealed to still be alive during the updated Western Plaguelands quests. But it seems like these heroics will be non-canon anyway.

That's generally how I view the ones brought back. The only reason that DM and SFK got other updates was due to how they tie into the story in the zones they are in.

[Aldrius]

It's weird that they're keeping all the same bosses for these revamps. One of the cool things about the Cata remixes for Deadmines/Shadowfang was that they gutted them almost completely. New bosses, with much better integration in the storyline. (i.e. you run into all the bosses in westfall before fighting them in Deadmines, and then the Baron trio of course played heavily into both Gilneas and Silverpine as leveling experiences.)

Like... Renault Mograine's died like 3 times at this point. I guess that whole Alexandros killed him thing didn't happen anymore, but still. I'd rather see an all new storyline if they're going to take the time to redo these things. Perhaps tie them into the storylines developed in the adjascent zone. (i.e. Lillian Voss for SM, I guess all the Scholo bosses still work because you run into them in Andorhol.)

Plus Scholo at least would be a good opportunity to develop the Scourge plotline post-ICC. I really miss my Scourge, I want to see them back and being bad-ass again, not just being further cannon fodder for the Horde and Alliance. And then perhaps have Koltira/Thassarian play into the Scholo dungeon since that's a big part of WPL as well.

[Insane Guy of Doom]

That's generally how I view the ones brought back. The only reason that DM and SFK got other updates was due to how they tie into the story in the zones they are in.

ZG and ZA got updated too, though.

[Garotar]

ZG and ZA got updated too, though.

True. Though ZA's update was just changing the last boss, other than that it's pretty much the same thing. But they didn't with Onyxia.

Maybe they will attach some new lore to them, but I can't really fathom how given what we know so far about the expansion. And I'm fine with them just being, story wise, not updated from what they are not.

[Ashendant]

True. Though ZA's update was just changing the last boss, other than that it's pretty much the same thing. But they didn't with Onyxia.

Maybe they will attach some new lore to them, but I can't really fathom how given what we know so far about the expansion. And I'm fine with them just being, story wise, not updated from what they are not.

Well most of them are undead so they can be recovered

http://www.wowpedia.org/images/0/02/Scholomance_bosses.jpg

Let's see which survive the transition:P

[Aedror]

Well most of them are undead so they can be recovered

Let's see which survive the transition:P

According to this released map (http://www.wowpedia.org/images/c/c3/Scholo_heroic_layout.jpg). The bosses that stay are:
- Ras Frostwhisper
- Jandice Barov
- Kirtonos the Herald
- Rattlegore
- Darkmaster Gandling

[Bolvar]

Of course, I will never forgive them for failing to revamp Blackrock Depths.

BRD is the single greatest dungeon they've ever designed. It would be criminal to screw with such a brilliant layout.

As much as I have fond memories of farming SM for loot and XP, I don't have a problem with a re-vamp, as long as it's still available in the same low-level bracket as well.

But, like everyone else, I wonder if they'll refresh the bosses and story lines, and where it's all meant to fit in the present-day lore for Mists.

[Aedror]

As of yet it doesn't look like they'll update the lore, atleast according to the released maps of the dungeons. A surprise boss has been confirmed in the Graveyard/Chapel wing of SM, though.

[Volkrin]

I'm just afraid that the moment I step into SM I'll start having flashbacks to the way I leveled from 30 to 40 on my main by running Cath a few dozen times in the space of a week. If any of you catch me curled up in a corner, hugging my knees to my chest and rocking back and forth while chanting "whywon'tthehammerdropwhywon'tthehammerdropwhywon't thehammerdrop", you'll know why.

[Warlock]

I'm mostly pissed they are getting rid of Interrogator Vishas. He was the best boss ever.

"I'LL RIP THE SECRETS FROM THEIR FLESH!"

[ScytheRexx]

You know, I just realized. Blizzard better be working on a way for ranged weapons to be visible on hunters, otherwise it's going to be pretty boring running around out of combat without at least having a neat axe on my back.

Also BRING BACK QUIVERS, just tie them to the weapons or something so each bow has a quiver attached to it when equiped. I miss having a quiver on my back as a hunter, it looks retarded pulling my arrows from thin air.

[Bolvar]

As of yet it doesn't look like they'll update the lore, atleast according to the released maps of the dungeons. A surprise boss has been confirmed in the Graveyard/Chapel wing of SM, though.


Yeah, but it's pretty early. I'm hoping they have some relevant and interesting changes in mind, while maintaining and augmenting the sweet loot drops from those instances.

You know, I just realized. Blizzard better be working on a way for ranged weapons to be visible on hunters, otherwise it's going to be pretty boring running around out of combat without at least having a neat axe on my back.

They've already said they want to make ranged weapons and quivers/ammo pouches visible.

[ScytheRexx]

They've already said they want to make ranged weapons and quivers/ammo pouches visible.

Must have missed that panel, good to hear.

[Ma Caque Attaque]

Must have missed that panel, good to hear.

And as an added bonus, not only do they want to give quivers and ammo pouches visibility, they also want to make them customizable so everyone is not carrying around the exact same look.

Also talked about making librams visable at the same panel. It was the items panel.

[ScytheRexx]

Also talked about making librams visable at the same panel. It was the items panel.

That would explain how I missed it, I didn't care about the item panel as much as the art, talent, and lore panels.

How do you think they would even do Librams? What slot would they put them in? Did they touch on that?

[Warlock]

That would explain how I missed it, I didn't care about the item panel as much as the art, talent, and lore panels.

How do you think they would even do Librams? What slot would they put them in? Did they touch on that?

No, but I'm assuming it will be something *like* the ranged/relic slot is now, only just a visual thing.

[Ma Caque Attaque]

No, but I'm assuming it will be something *like* the ranged/relic slot is now, only just a visual thing.

Pretty much since the relic slot is going away. It was the developers idea in order to visually seperate the paladins from the other similar plate classes, much like DKs and their glowing eyes. Since whenever you do see paladins in WoW art, they pretty much always have a libram attached to their belt. Evidently the visual librams is something that players have been asking for a long time according to the developers.

[Rotal]

Who else here wants to bet that DKs get the Paladin's libram before Paladins do?