Book of Cain Discussion

[Dagren]

No, I don't have mine yet, amazon screwed my copy.
Has anyone received their copy yet? Handclaw, I'm looking at you :D
Spoil me !

[handclaw]

No, I don't have mine yet, amazon screwed my copy.
Has anyone received their copy yet? Handclaw, I'm looking at you :D
Spoil me !

The book of cain, so I must say, has not arrived this place, not even today. :(

[Omacron]

I'm not getting it 'till Chrimbo, so we'll see how it is then.

[Curll]

I don't have mine, either. It's said to be postponed to January 10, 2012.

[Slowpokeking]

$23.10? No Way.

[Lon-ami]

No, I don't have mine yet, amazon screwed my copy.
Has anyone received their copy yet? Handclaw, I'm looking at you :D
Spoil me !

I've seen some sample pages and comments around... in general, it seems to narrate D1, D2 and D2X, as well as the Sin War and some general details between everything, including Mage wars and dragons. Has nice touches like every archangel having an item, Azmodan having 7 sin generals and the likes.

Regarding D3, it has introductory stuff, but it's missing important things like Zoltun Kulle.

Don't trust this information too much, anyway.

[Cemotucu]

I've seen some sample pages and comments around... in general, it seems to narrate D1, D2 and D2X, as well as the Sin War and some general details between everything, including Mage wars and dragons. Has nice touches like every archangel having an item, Azmodan having 7 sin generals and the likes.

Regarding D3, it has introductory stuff, but it's missing important things like Zoltun Kulle.

Don't trust this information too much, anyway.

Can you provide the sample pages?

[Genesis]

Can you provide the sample pages?You can find them on the Diablo Wiki. (http://www.diablowiki.net/Book_of_Cain)

[Cemotucu]

You can find them on the Diablo Wiki. (http://www.diablowiki.net/Book_of_Cain)

Thank you very much.

[Omacron]

So I got my copy for Crimbo.

Ask me anything.

[Genesis]

So I got my copy for Crimbo.

Ask me anything.Is that your real hair in those BlizzCon pics?

[Omacron]

Is that your real hair in those BlizzCon pics?

You bet your sweet bippy. Haven't had a "real" haircut in like 5 years.

[Lord Eliphas]

And thus the Order of Omacron was founded around his hair - to support Lord Diablo in his quest for a better style.

[Omacron]

Diablo don't even have hair.


Maybe we could get him a weave for christmas?

[Erthad]

How cool would one of these be for Warcraft?

[Omacron]

How cool would one of these be for Warcraft?

Extremely so. Which is why I actually bought a copy rather than using my ties in publishing to get one free- I want this book to sell well so they make one for Warcraft (and I guess Starcraft).

It may be a little different because Book of Cain focuses on metaphysics, whereas I think most fans would rather the warcraft book focus on history and politics as a replacement for stuff that was de-canonized by the RPG. Still, it's a good chunk of lore.

[Genesis]

Extremely so. Which is why I actually bought a copy rather than using my ties in publishing to get one free- I want this book to sell well so they make one for Warcraft (and I guess Starcraft).

It may be a little different because Book of Cain focuses on metaphysics, whereas I think most fans would rather the warcraft book focus on history and politics as a replacement for stuff that was de-canonized by the RPG. Still, it's a good chunk of lore.And the Diablo franchise also has far less lore in its repository than Warcraft, so I am not sure how feasible a book of BoC's size would be for Warcraft.

[Omacron]

And the Diablo franchise also has far less lore in its repository than Warcraft, so I am not sure how feasible a book of BoC's size would be for Warcraft.

If, and this is a big if, we were to get a lore sourcebook like Book of Cain I wouldn't expect it to be comprehensive. Rather, I'd expect it to basically be a big dumping ground for the kind of fluff that would just bog down any other narrative. Having the game go into detail about the population of Stormwind or Rhonin to start expositing about the physics of Arcane Magic in the middle of a novel would be weird, but in a book that's nothing BUT exposition, essentially, the RPG books without any actual RPG mechanics, that'd be golden.


I'd expect them to come out with a Starcraft book before Warcraft, though.

[Revenant]

There seemed to be little interest at BlizzCon 2011 for a Warcraft version of the Book of Cain, and there was almost no enthusiasm by Metzen or the fans for the idea of going through and re-codifying the de-canonized RPG books. I don't see it happening.

[Genesis]

If, and this is a big if, we were to get a lore sourcebook like Book of Cain I wouldn't expect it to be comprehensive. Rather, I'd expect it to basically be a big dumping ground for the kind of fluff that would just bog down any other narrative. Having the game go into detail about the population of Stormwind or Rhonin to start expositing about the physics of Arcane Magic in the middle of a novel would be weird, but in a book that's nothing BUT exposition, essentially, the RPG books without any actual RPG mechanics, that'd be golden.But population statistics are not really the sort of thing that's covered by the Book of Cain. I would see a Book of Khadgar covering more about the Origins of the Universe, the Titans, the Naaru, the Void, Demons and the Corruption of Sargeras, the Burning Legion, Old Gods and the Shaping of Azeroth, Elune (or E'lune), the War of the Ancients, Loken's War in Northrend and the Sealing of the Vrykul and Earthen, the Dark Ages of the Sundering, the High Elves, the Troll Wars and the Rise of Humanity, etc. Far more broad than the specific.

I'd expect them to come out with a Starcraft book before Warcraft, though.Agreed.

[Omacron]

There seemed to be little interest at BlizzCon 2010 for a Warcraft version of the Book of Cain, and there was almost no enthusiasm by Metzen or the fans for the idea of going through and re-codifying the de-canonized RPG books. I don't see it happening.

Back at the publishing panel during blizzcon 2011 they pretty much said that if it sold well they'd look into doing similar books for their other franchises.

[Revenant]

Back at the publishing panel during blizzcon 2011 they pretty much said that if it sold well they'd look into doing similar books for their other franchises.

*grumble grumble* 2010 was a typo. I meant the last BlizzCon. Yeah, they brought it up a few times in a few panels, but based on the audience's reaction, I took Metzen's response as "Great, we don't have to now!" followed by the idea likely dying. Warcraft had a "Book of Cain" in the RPG line, but that died, and a true Warcraft "Book of Cain"-type thing would be a re-codifying of that, which is something that both Blizzard and most of the fan-base don't care about.

[Omacron]

*grumble grumble* 2010 was a typo. I meant the last BlizzCon. Yeah, they brought it up a few times in a few panels, but based on the audience's reaction, I took Metzen's response as "Great, we don't have to now!" followed by the idea likely dying. Warcraft had a "Book of Cain" in the RPG line, but that died, and a true Warcraft "Book of Cain"-type thing would be a re-codifying of that, which is something that both Blizzard and most of the fan-base don't care about.

A pox on the fan-base!

[Genesis]

*grumble grumble* 2010 was a typo. I meant the last BlizzCon. Yeah, they brought it up a few times in a few panels, but based on the audience's reaction, I took Metzen's response as "Great, we don't have to now!" followed by the idea likely dying. Warcraft had a "Book of Cain" in the RPG line, but that died, and a true Warcraft "Book of Cain"-type thing would be a re-codifying of that, which is something that both Blizzard and most of the fan-base don't care about.It depends on the level of detail in which the Book of Brann delves.

[Omacron]

It depends on the level of detail in which the Book of Brann delves.

Probably a lot of stuff about muffins and cereals to aid in bowel movements.

[Skytotem]

Am I the only one hoping that such a book would be titled...

The Scrolls of Lore ?

[spidey1980]

If you have been keeping up with the Big Blue's news lately, then you may have heard about a little product called the Book of Cain. This definitive Diablo source book compounds the franchise's major lore with stunning artwork provided by many of the industry's greatest illustrators.

Heavyweights like; John Howe, Alan Lee, Gerald Brom, Ian McCaig and Adrian Smith to name a few. And also our very own Red Knuckle Welshman, Mark Gibbons!
John Howe and Alan Lee???

Holy Shit! I had no idea. Now I want that book even more.

[Ku'ja]

So I got my copy for Crimbo.

Ask me anything.

Is it worth it for those that never got into the story back with Diablo 1 & 2 (as i was very young when i played them) but want to get into the Lore now with Diablo 3 ?

[Omacron]

Is it worth it for those that never got into the story back with Diablo 1 & 2 (as i was very young when i played them) but want to get into the Lore now with Diablo 3 ?

I wasn't that much into Diablo's lore either and I found it fascinating. Its worldview is far more like contemporary medieval philosophies and cosmology, and while I was a bit lost with some references to specific characters and events it doesn't really go into the stories of the published games that much while still setting up the world.

[Ku'ja]

I wasn't that much into Diablo's lore either and I found it fascinating. Its worldview is far more like contemporary medieval philosophies and cosmology, and while I was a bit lost with some references to specific characters and events it doesn't really go into the stories of the published games that much while still setting up the world.

I think i may have to grab it then.

[Dagren]

I'm still waiting for mine to show up. I ordered it from the book depository (UK online shop) since amazon couldn't bother to send it to me. Hopefully it won't be too long.

So, for now I'll have to ask you guys- I mean, Omacron (come on guys, show the book some support so we'll get one for Warcraft :D) about its content.

Let's begin with the Mage Clan Wars, what does it say about it? I've always wondered why it happened, and how it could last so long.

Also, does it talk about the Old Religions of the East? We've heard of the Skatsim thing but what was it all about? It seems like it wasn't some random belief, as one of its adept (Lam Esen) was able to foresee a lot about what's happening right now in Sanctuary in his black book.

I'd also ask about the Zakarum and whether there are other religions of the Light or not. The Horadrim would be one of them as they were Light-biased thanks to Tyrael, and the order was founded before the Zakarum.

[Omacron]

Let's begin with the Mage Clan Wars, what does it say about it? I've always wondered why it happened, and how it could last so long.
It's actually pretty involved and complex, but basically: the Ennead and Ammuit clans teamed up on the Vizjerei because the Vizjerei were summoning demons. To survive, the Vizjerei did the obvious and summoned MORE demons to combat the other two clans. The book also says that the mage clan wars were the primary reason for the world beginning to distrust mages and go back to religion as the source of knowledge, and it also states that the mage clan wars were the reason for the creation of the Assassins.

Also, does it talk about the Old Religions of the East? We've heard of the Skatsim thing but what was it all about? It seems like it wasn't some random belief, as one of its adept (Lam Esen) was able to foresee a lot about what's happening right now in Sanctuary in his black book.
Not that I can recall. There's stuff on the Sin War, stuff on the foundation of Zakarum, but the only new religion I really remember being outlined was some stuff on the history of Ivgorod which was more of a western state (apparently Ivgorod used to be a whole country in what is now Westmarch but is currently a nation-state). The fact that they Skatsimi are called "mystics" may imply they were a mage clan. It could even be that there WERE no religions of the east. Basically, "magic vs. religion" was kind of presented as the Sanctuary version of the real world's "science vs. religion", as opposing, mutually exclusive viewpoints. It could be that, due to the predominance of magic in the East, religion was underdeveloped until the mage clan wars. I'll reread the section of the book that deals with human history, there may be a few more mentions though. There was of course the Triune and Cathedral of Light religions from the Sin War but I thought that was simply stuff from the books I didn't read. If these were new developments, then I'd happily discuss them.

I'd also ask about the Zakarum and whether there are other religions of the Light or not. The Horadrim would be one of them as they were Light-biased thanks to Tyrael, and the order was founded before the Zakarum.
The Horadrim weren't a religion inasmuch as a specific order of multicultural, multinational mages dedicated to hunting down the Prime Evils after they were banished to Sanctuary. The Cathedral of Light was founded by Inarius and used to control humanity for the angels by proxy. Otherwise, Zakaraum is really the only light related religion- and interestingly it was apparently inspired by a mystic prophet from Xiansai experiencing what Cain believes was Uldyssian's usage of his Nephalem powers.

[Ganishka]

So I got my copy for Crimbo.

Ask me anything.

I got a question: what the fuck is "crimbo" some kind of swamp person pagan holiday?

Also, what does the book say about Azmodan?

[Omacron]

I got a question: what the fuck is "crimbo" some kind of swamp person pagan holiday?
http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Crimbo

Also, what does the book say about Azmodan?

Each of the major evils and members of the Anguiris council has their own page or two about their lore. Azmodan is said to be the "Lord of Sin" and is about "vice and corruption", and is all about tempting people, especially those who hold strict codes of conduct and morality. He also has a tendency to view the world in terms of extremes.

[Wabbajack]

I got a question: what the fuck is "crimbo" some kind of swamp person pagan holiday?

Wiktionary is your friend. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Crimbo)

[Ku'ja]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqBF7TiyATo

:D

Crimbo over here is another way of saying Christmas lol English slang is ftw :D.

[Dagren]

Thanks for your time Omacron !

It's actually pretty involved and complex, but basically: the Ennead and Ammuit clans teamed up on the Vizjerei because the Vizjerei were summoning demons. To survive, the Vizjerei did the obvious and summoned MORE demons to combat the other two clans.

Does it have anything to do with Bartuc and Horazon? Wikis around the web seem to mix up the Mage Clan Wars with the Bartuc/Horazon episode while -to my knowledge- it's never been mentionned in any official source. From what you said, I'd guess that story is the ending of the Wars (and not the Wars themselves), with the Vizjeirei forbidding demonic magic and creating the Assassins' order in the end.


The book also says that the mage clan wars were the primary reason for the world beginning to distrust mages and go back to religion as the source of knowledge.


Now that's interesting. Adepts of religions in Diablo seem to follow strict (some would say radical) schools of magic. The primary example of this are the paladins and priests of the Zakarum. It's not like in Warcraft where Light and Shadow spells are divine. In Sanctuary, any mage can cast holy bolts or more Light/Dark-themed spells. Going by the Diablo 1 manual, the Horadrim invented a lot of the spells that the Paladin would use in Diablo 2.


The fact that they Skatsimi are called "mystics" may imply they were a mage clan. It could even be that there WERE no religions of the east.

Well, in Diablo 2 Ormus was a mage from the Taan clan. In game, Cain said that their order was built upon Skatsimi rites. There are mentions of the "spririts of Skatsim" and the "blade of the old religion" is most powerful when used by someone who knows skasimi rites. It seems to be a blend of magic and religion.
It was supplented by the Zakarum when it grew popular (it "spoke to the common man" or something like this) - and when it later went batshit crazy.


Basically, "magic vs. religion" was kind of presented as the Sanctuary version of the real world's "science vs. religion", as opposing, mutually exclusive viewpoints.


I wouldn't say mutually exlusive (in the case of the Diablo version), as I said earlier, religions would have a more ultra-conservationist way to look at magic. They would use spells, but only those who match their representation of the world.



There was of course the Triune and Cathedral of Light religions from the Sin War but I thought that was simply stuff from the books I didn't read. If these were new developments, then I'd happily discuss them.


Yup that's from the Sin War trilogy. Basically the Triune is just the religion used by the Burning Hells to sway humanity to their cause while the Heavens are completely unaware of the existence of Sanctuary. The Cathedral of Light is earlier than the Triune and is Inarius' way of getting some worship after he shutted down Humanity's innate power (before it would grow out of his control).


The Horadrim weren't a religion inasmuch as a specific order of multicultural, multinational mages dedicated to hunting down the Prime Evils after they were banished to Sanctuary.


Yes, but they created of lot of Light-based spells, and the Cathedral of Tristam was a Horadrim "Monastery" before it was converted into a Zakarum church. Maybe it's due to the nature of their task, and they did have the lead of Tyrael.


The Cathedral of Light was founded by Inarius and used to control humanity for the angels by proxy.

You're wrong there. As I've said earlier, Inarius wasn't in good terms with his fellow angels. He just wanted to be in control of his own small world.


Otherwise, Zakaraum is really the only light related religion- and interestingly it was apparently inspired by a mystic prophet from Xiansai experiencing what Cain believes was Uldyssian's usage of his Nephalem powers.

Wow, interesting. It's Akarat, right? Why would a guy who knows he can develop powers to scare Angels and Demons shitless follow the visions given by an Angel?
Maybe they retconned that Yaerius part?