How would Sylvanas be successfully redeemed?

[Fojar]

Blightcaller was a badass. You couldn't solo him at level 70. We held a guild contest to see if anyone could do it.

If anything, they should have left him out there, and just buffed him.

I dunno, I find the fact that he was forced to fake his own death just so he could run away a bit mitigating in his "badass" quotient.

He was a tactical genius,

Why is this always an informed ability when it comes to the Forsaken? If he was a tactical genius and knew the Alliance really well then why did he hang out on his farm after killing 3 SI:7 agents without realizing that it was going to get his ass ganked by the Alliance?

[cosmictimelion]

He was in Earth at first then got teleported to Namek by the Namek Dragon.

I don't remember that at all.

I remember Nail fusing with Piccolo. I remember when Grand Elder Guru died. I don't remember Kami being teleported to Namek.... then again, I haven't seen the original series in years.

[Millenia]

Kami fused with Piccolo before Napa and Vegeta came. I think.

[cosmictimelion]

Kami fused with Piccolo before Napa and Vegeta came. I think.

Nope. Kami fused with Piccolo after Imperfect Cell was born.

[Millenia]

Really? Huh.

[Mustrum]

You crazy kids and your 'Kamis' and 'Nambys' and your 'Who-hus' and 'Pickle-shows!'

[Royalpimp]

I don't remember that at all.

I remember Nail fusing with Piccolo. I remember when Grand Elder Guru died. I don't remember Kami being teleported to Namek.... then again, I haven't seen the original series in years.

The way I remember it, he specifically asked to be revived on Namek directly.

[Xilizhra]

Where the holy hell is Darius Crowley in all this?
Apparently, his daughter maybe switching sides was worse than never getting his nation back.

[Slowpokeking]

Kami fused with Piccolo before Napa and Vegeta came. I think.

No, if he did he would smash Napa and Vegeta like smash ants.

[Skytotem]

I dunno, I find the fact that he was forced to fake his own death just so he could run away a bit mitigating in his "badass" quotient.



Why is this always an informed ability when it comes to the Forsaken? If he was a tactical genius and knew the Alliance really well then why did he hang out on his farm after killing 3 SI:7 agents without realizing that it was going to get his ass ganked by the Alliance?

1. I agree, Sylvanas should've spent a Val'kyr to raise him.

2. cause he's a stubborn jackass of incredible skill.

[Slowpokeking]

It was Bolvar/Varian calling him bad ass, not any Forsaken or other members.

[Slywyn]

Apparently, his daughter maybe switching sides was worse than never getting his nation back.

Huh?

[Xilizhra]

Huh?
Referring to Sylvanas kidnapping Lorna to turn off the GLF. I think that Darius could have taken a page from Stalin's book, at least one of his responses when Stalin's son was captured and then was tried to be exchanged with a German field marshal: "You have in your hands not only my son Yakov but millions of my sons. Either you free them all or my son will share their fate."

Or something to that effect. It's not a perfect analogy, but something along those lines.

[Fojar]

It was Bolvar/Varian calling him bad ass, not any Forsaken or other members.

Former badass, is what they called him.

2. cause he's a stubborn jackass of incredible skill.

And that almost cost him his unlife.

[Slowpokeking]

Former badass, is what they called him.

Do you know how many ranger lords exist in this world? How many human ranger lords have ever existed?

Nathanos' accomplishments were unprecedented. He was a tactical genius, responsible for Alliance victories spanning a decade of conflict.

And now... the champion of the Forsaken.

No. This cannot be. Order must be restored.

Gather an army, <name>. Return to the Plagues with your army and destroy the Blightcaller.

I wish you luck, <name>. Truly, you will need it for this battle.

:raisedbro

[Fojar]

Gather an army, <name>. Return to the Plagues with your army and destroy the Blightcaller.

I wish you luck, <name>. Truly, you will need it for this battle.

Not once do they call him a badass any more than Hogger is called a badass.

I maintain that they should've left him dead. Bringing him back has thus far proved pointless and rendered one of the more memorable Alliance questlines from Vanilla pointless as well.

[Millenia]

Bringing him back has thus far proved pointless and rendered one of the more memorable Alliance questlines from Vanilla pointless as well.
Story of the expansion, ladies and gentlemen!

[cosmictimelion]

Bringing him back has thus far proved pointless and rendered one of the more memorable Alliance questlines from Vanilla pointless as well.

Could almost say the same thing about Varian.

Zing!

[Fojar]

Could almost say the same thing about Varian.

Zing!

Varian has had a very discernable impact on the storyline. Nathanos not so much.

[cosmictimelion]

Lighten up.

[Millenia]

Don'tcha know that Warcraft lore is sprsrs? srsly!

[Sa'danak]

Nathanos wasn't exactly handled well, although its hardly Horde bias in this case. They actually fucked it for both factions. Not onl did they void an epic Alliance questline but they also proceeded to not do anything with Nathanos. An epic death is very prefferable to reanimation followed by never being used again...

I do kindoff have a pet peeve against Nathanos though, he was made out to be have a stunning military record by many prominent lore characters but nobody ever goes into specifics. I REALLY wish he'd do something worthy of his title.

[Sports72Xtrm]

So Varian sends the players to kill Nathanos and turns out he tricks them into thinking he's dead. Blizz can make Alliance players even more incompetent than the Alliance NPCs. Well at least they're consistent.

[GenyaArikado]

So Varian sends the players to kill Nathanos and turns out he tricks them into thinking he's dead. Blizz can make Alliance players even more incompetent than the Alliance NPCs. Well at least they're consistent.

Well he is already dead, I dont think that its too hard for him to feign death

[Omacron]

Well how can you check he's dead? Check his pulse?

[Millenia]

Well how can you check he's dead? Check his pulse?
Chop off the head and burn the body.

[Omacron]

Chop off the head and burn the body.

Life finds a way.
http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_largtiY0RT1qcvk3xo1_500.jpg

[Ashendant]

Well how can you check he's dead? Check his pulse?

I think hunter in warcraft have some sort of nature magic and are able to shut off their pulse for a while :P

[Slowpokeking]

Nathanos wasn't exactly handled well, although its hardly Horde bias in this case. They actually fucked it for both factions. Not onl did they void an epic Alliance questline but they also proceeded to not do anything with Nathanos. An epic death is very prefferable to reanimation followed by never being used again...

I do kindoff have a pet peeve against Nathanos though, he was made out to be have a stunning military record by many prominent lore characters but nobody ever goes into specifics. I REALLY wish he'd do something worthy of his title.

Yeah, he should kick some ass.

[HalfElfDragon]

Well how can you check he's dead? Check his pulse?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1h3d9nBh3s

[SmokeBlader]

Yeah, he should kick some ass.

He does !
http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/309/2/3/nathanos_and_his_dogs_by_usagi_zakura-d4f7vbo.png

[Kadifa]

So Varian sends the players to kill Nathanos and turns out he tricks them into thinking he's dead. Blizz can make Alliance players even more incompetent than the Alliance NPCs. Well at least they're consistent.
I don't see anything wrong with that. Nathanos is a clever, cunning bastard, after all.

[Omacron]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1h3d9nBh3s

I'm sorry, but the correct answer we were looking for was...

"Double tap" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PapZO7NXB3Q)

[Sa'danak]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Nathanos is a clever, cunning bastard, after all.
But we never actually see or hear specifics of him doing anything cunning! Everyone keeps telling us how awesome he is but all hes actually accomplished is fooling a party into not killing him. Oh and he also killed 3 SI:7 agents so I suppose that's something but its certainly not worth the praise he gets...

Still though, he got taken by a rather generic abomination and then has the players go get his revenge for him. Why is this guy so special? /rage :angry:

[Fojar]

I don't see anything wrong with that. Nathanos is a clever, cunning bastard, after all.

It should be standard procedure among the Alliance (and anyone really) when fighting undead to either remove the head, burn the corpse, or both. The fact that the Alliance players apparently didn't bother to do either is them being hit with the stupid bat for no reason.

[Kadifa]

It should be standard procedure among the Alliance (and anyone really) when fighting undead to either remove the head, burn the corpse, or both. The fact that the Alliance players apparently didn't bother to do either is them being hit with the stupid bat for no reason.
That, or once again, Nathanos is not some standard undead that just lets himself go down so easily.

[Slowpokeking]

But we never actually see or hear specifics of him doing anything cunning! Everyone keeps telling us how awesome he is but all hes actually accomplished is fooling a party into not killing him. Oh and he also killed 3 SI:7 agents so I suppose that's something but its certainly not worth the praise he gets...

Still though, he got taken by a rather generic abomination and then has the players go get his revenge for him. Why is this guy so special? /rage :angry:

He took out the Oracle of the Scarlet Crusade.

Also



I was overwhelmed. On this very stead, I stood... held my ground in defense of Lordaeron. The farm and all on it were waylaid by a gigantic wave of Scourge.

The wretch. The filth. It hovered above me, entrails hanging from its gaping chest cavity.

After Sylvanas freed me, I hunted the beast across these wastes for months. It fled to the safety of Stratholme. The bastard...

[Kadifa]

But we never actually see or hear specifics of him doing anything cunning! Everyone keeps telling us how awesome he is but all hes actually accomplished is fooling a party into not killing him. Oh and he also killed 3 SI:7 agents so I suppose that's something but its certainly not worth the praise he gets...

Still though, he got taken by a rather generic abomination and then has the players go get his revenge for him. Why is this guy so special? /rage :angry:
Yeah, other than him being a champion of the Banshee Queen and making Alliance players look stupid, there's not much else about him.

Still, the two above things are enough for me.

[Fojar]

That, or once again, Nathanos is not some standard undead that just lets himself go down so easily.

He had to fake his own death just so that he could avoid being killed. He's only alive because the Alliance players were apparently morons.

[Kadifa]

He had to fake his own death just so that he could avoid being killed. He's only alive because the Alliance players were apparently morons.
I'm so tempted to take that opening. But I'll refrain.

There is definitely more to it than just a stupid ball being passed around.

[Omacron]

It should be standard procedure among the Alliance (and anyone really) when fighting undead to either remove the head, burn the corpse, or both. The fact that the Alliance players apparently didn't bother to do either is them being hit with the stupid bat for no reason.

Do you know how hard it is to burn a body?

Unless the questgivers provided us with some accelerant we couldn't just toss a match on his corpse and call it a day.

[Slowpokeking]

Bolvar/Varian let you take an army to kill him but still failed, and you think he sucks?

[Fojar]

Do you know how hard it is to burn a body?

Unless the questgivers provided us with some accelerant we couldn't just toss a match on his corpse and call it a day.

Or, you know, magic.

Bolvar/Varian let you take an army to kill him but still failed, and you think he sucks?

The raid forces him to fake his own death so that he can not die and tuck tail to run.

The only "failure" here is that Blizzard wanted to keep him around as a lowbie hunter trainer for some reason.

[Slowpokeking]

The raid forces him to fake his own death so that he can not die and tuck tail to run.


It's a smart move before an army.

[cosmictimelion]

It took a small army to take down Nathanos. I consider that badass.

He faked his death and duped the Alliance. I consider that badass.

He's a badass.

[Fojar]

It's a smart move before an army.

You weren't arguing that he was smart, you were arguing that he's a badass whom an army couldn't kill when that's obviously not the case.

It took a small army to take down Nathanos. I consider that badass.

That's no more badass than any raid boss, especially when you keep in mind that the only reason a raid was required was because of adds.

He faked his death and duped the Alliance. I consider that badass.

That doesn't reflect well on Nathanos so much as it reflects poorly on Alliance players.

[C9H20]

But we never actually see or hear specifics of him doing anything cunning! Everyone keeps telling us how awesome he is but all hes actually accomplished is fooling a party into not killing him. Oh and he also killed 3 SI:7 agents so I suppose that's something but its certainly not worth the praise he gets...

Still though, he got taken by a rather generic abomination and then has the players go get his revenge for him. Why is this guy so special? /rage :angry:

Well apparently he was such a super douche to the quester that it swung full circle and ended up endearing, Major Pain style.

I don't know more then that as I've never taken his quests (well maybe one or two, but not all),only read about it on wowwiki.

[cosmictimelion]

That's no more badass than any raid boss, especially when you keep in mind that the only reason a raid was required was because of adds.

Except he was a Horde-aligned boss. Much like Saurfang in Vanilla. Nathanos is a badass.

That doesn't reflect well on Nathanos so much as it reflects poorly on Alliance players.

Nah, he's a master ranger and survivalist, most likely. Pretty sure however he faked his death, it was convincing. I consider a Nathanos a badass. Deal with it.

[C9H20]

Nah, he's a master ranger and survivalist, most likely. Pretty sure however he faked his death, it was convincing. I consider a Nathanos a badass. Deal with it.

No Gandalf in cool shades?

I am disappoint.

[Fojar]

Except he was a Horde-aligned boss. Much like Saurfang in Vanilla. Nathanos is a badass.

So, being Horde-aligned automatically makes you a badass?

Oh who am I kidding, of course you would think that. We wouldn't be having this conversation if this was a PvE boss that managed to dupe raids of both factions by faking his death.

[Slowpokeking]

So, being Horde-aligned automatically makes you a badass?

Oh who am I kidding, of course you would think that. We wouldn't be having this conversation if this was a PvE boss that managed to dupe raids of both factions by faking his death.

Being a Horde member and still get such high praise from the Alliance's leader, yes, it's fair to say he's badass.

[GenyaArikado]

No Gandalf in cool shades?

I am disappoint.

*Le usual GaGa gif*
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lrvxpoePiW1qkkxcdo1_250.gif

[Fojar]

Being a Horde member and still get such high praise from the Alliance's leader, yes, it's fair to say he's badass.

You realize that Varian and Bolvar referred to Nathanos in the past tense when they were praising him, right? And they made it very clear that they consider Nathanos Marris (who they praised) and Nathanos Blightcaller (who they condemned) two seperate beings.

Nathanos was no more "badass" than any other raid boss. In fact he's even less badass because the difficulty of the fight came from him spamming adds, not from Nathanos himself.

I still don't see where you're getting "he faked his own death because he was getting his ass kicked so hard" as "badass."

[Millenia]

I usually don't consider "got the shit beat out of him by the PCs" to be the mark of a person no longer being a badass. I think Illidan's a badass, and while his story suffered in BC his becoming a raid boss was not part of it.

Blizzard does need to do more to establish character reputations, however. Unfortunately, the game is limited to a first person perspective limited to certain zones for certain times, and so one cannot really get a feel for the characters one wold if it were a book or an RPG or somesuch.

[Fojar]

I usually don't consider "got the shit beat out of him by the PCs" to be the mark of a person no longer being a badass. I think Illidan's a badass, and while his story suffered in BC his becoming a raid boss was not part of it.

Yeah, but even ignoring that he hasn't DONE anything other than have the PC do his work for him. People like him for his personality but he hasn't actually done anything to warrant calling him a "badass."

[Aneurysm]

Yeah, but even ignoring that he hasn't DONE anything other than have the PC do his work for him. People like him for his personality but he hasn't actually done anything to warrant calling him a "badass."

He doesn't need to do anything to be badass. That's what makes him so bad to the ass.

[Fojar]

He doesn't need to do anything to be badass. That's what makes him so bad to the ass.

I think that people just like how he blatantly abused the PC for no apparent reason.

[Slowpokeking]

You realize that Varian and Bolvar referred to Nathanos in the past tense when they were praising him, right? And they made it very clear that they consider Nathanos Marris (who they praised) and Nathanos Blightcaller (who they condemned) two seperate beings.

Nathanos was no more "badass" than any other raid boss. In fact he's even less badass because the difficulty of the fight came from him spamming adds, not from Nathanos himself.

I still don't see where you're getting "he faked his own death because he was getting his ass kicked so hard" as "badass."

So, being undead make him lost his tactical knowledge?

They let you gather an army to take out him and his 2 dogs, I don't see why that's not badass.

Escape before an army is pretty wise. Can Varian take on an army all by himself? I don't think so.

[Fojar]

So, being undead make him lost his tactical knowledge?

They let you gather an army to take out him and his 2 dogs, I don't see why that's not badass.

Escape before an army is pretty wise. Can Varian take on an army all by himself? I don't think so.

Did you even read what I said? They complimented Nathanos Marris and condemned Nathanos Blightcaller on account of the fact that they consider the two to be separate individuals. So your argument of "they praise Blightcaller" is not so true.

And it wasn't "him and his two dogs." Have you actually done the fight? The difficulty doesn't come from Nathanos, it comes from the fact that he spams MORE AND MORE ADDS as the fight progresses. If it really was just him and his two dogs it could be 5-manned at 60.

And Varian takes on 40-man raids all the time and wins on my server.

[Slowpokeking]

Did you even read what I said? They complimented Nathanos Marris and condemned Nathanos Blightcaller on account of the fact that they consider the two to be separate individuals. So your argument of "they praise Blightcaller" is not so true.

And it wasn't "him and his two dogs." Have you actually done the fight? The difficulty doesn't come from Nathanos, it comes from the fact that he spams MORE AND MORE ADDS as the fight progresses. If it really was just him and his two dogs it could be 5-manned at 60.

And Varian takes on 40-man raids all the time and wins on my server.
They are one dude, just from human to undead. Nathanos Marris got such tactical knowledge, as long as he didn't lose them after turned undead, he's still a tactical genius.

We are not talking about game mechanic, the quest let you gather an army take him down. Neither Bolvar or Varian knew anything about Nathanos' ability on necromancy. That's why it's a raid quest.

[cosmictimelion]

So, being Horde-aligned automatically makes you a badass?

Oh who am I kidding, of course you would think that. We wouldn't be having this conversation if this was a PvE boss that managed to dupe raids of both factions by faking his death.

You mean like how a million people think Shandris is a badass because she used to be able to solo Orgrimmar?

[Fojar]

They are one dude, just from human to undead. Nathanos Marris got such tactical knowledge, as long as he didn't lose them after turned undead, he's still a tactical genius.

Whether they actually are or not is irrelevent. You're arguing that Blightcaller is badass on account of the praise that Marris got, despite the fact that the people doing the praising make it clear that they consider those two different people. Stop taking the quote out of context.

We are not talking about game mechanic, the quest let you gather an army take him down. Neither Bolvar or Varian knew anything about Nathanos' ability on necromancy. That's why it's a raid quest.

How do you know they didn't know about his necromantic abilities? They had SI:7 agents there and at least one reported back before dying to wounds/poison.

[Kadifa]

So, being Horde-aligned automatically makes you a badass?

Oh who am I kidding, of course you would think that. We wouldn't be having this conversation if this was a PvE boss that managed to dupe raids of both factions by faking his death.
Yes. And don't you forget that.

[Fojar]

Yes. And don't you forget that.

Considering all the Horde I've killed, the standards for "badass" in the Horde must be pretty low.

[Slowpokeking]

Whether they actually are or not is irrelevent. You're arguing that Blightcaller is badass on account of the praise that Marris got, despite the fact that the people doing the praising make it clear that they consider those two different people. Stop taking the quote out of context.



How do you know they didn't know about his necromantic abilities? They had SI:7 agents there and at least one reported back before dying to wounds/poison.

Marris is Blightcaller, just became undead and his mind was twisted and think like Forsaken now. He didn't lost any knowledge so he's still one. Bolvar/Varian also let you gather an army and wish you luck to take out him, that's enough for badass.



Five of my best field agents were assigned the Marris case. One returned, only to end up dead in his sleep three days later.

What little information we did manage to get out of him was incoherent gibberish. We made out two words: "Nathanos" and "Blightcaller."

[Kadifa]

I think that people just like how he blatantly abused the PC for no apparent reason.
What's not to like? Player characters often deserve far worse than just verbal abuse.

Considering all the Horde I've killed, the standards for "badass" in the Horde must be pretty low.
The more likely answer is that the standards for heroism in the Alliance must be pretty low. Figures, since that faction consists of 13-year-olds.

[Fojar]

Marris is Blightcaller, just became undead and his mind was twisted and think like Forsaken now. He didn't lost any knowledge so he's still one. Bolvar/Varian also let you gather an army and wish you luck to take out him, that's enough for badass.

I remember when I was told to get a group to fight Hogger. Guess they're both on the same level of "badassery?"

As for your quote, they had been spying on Blightcaller for some time, they didn't just start and fail in the same afternoon. Besides, the idea that you would've needed an army to fight just Nathanos himself is outright false, because he's easily SOLOABLE if it's just him on his own (you would've been able to do it with 3 or 4 people at 60 if it was just Nathanos.) The "army" was for the waves and waves of adds, so apparently they knew about that.

The more likely answer is that the standards for heroism in the Alliance must be pretty low. Figures, since that faction consists of 13-year-olds.

I've never been told that I'm a hero for killing thousands of Horde players. I usually just get a clap on the shoulder.

Now, Horde quests? They're practically throwing confetti around when you return to them and tell you that you successfully killed a dozen unarmed Alliance peasants. Seems to me that the Horde is compensating.

Also, as soon as you go "lol ur faction iz ful of kidz" then you've lost the argument. It's been fun Kadifa.

[cosmictimelion]

Remember guys, if your subjective opinions don't agree with my universal standard, THEY'RE WRONG!!!!

[Kadifa]

I remember when I was told to get a group to fight Hogger. Guess they're both on the same level of "badassery?"

As for your quote, they had been spying on Blightcaller for some time, they didn't just start and fail in the same afternoon. Besides, the idea that you would've needed an army to fight just Nathanos himself is outright false, because he's easily SOLOABLE if it's just him on his own (you would've been able to do it with 3 or 4 people at 60 if it was just Nathanos.) The "army" was for the waves and waves of adds, so apparently they knew about that.
Not on the same level at all.

Nathanos was the Champion of the Banshee Queen.

As in, the Champion. Of the Banshee Queen.

[Fojar]

Not on the same level at all.

Nathanos was the Champion of the Banshee Queen.

As in, the Champion. Of the Banshee Queen.

Who had to fake his own death just so that he could tuck tail and run back to the Undercity.

Low standards.

[Kadifa]

Who had to fake his own death just so that he could tuck tail and run back to the Undercity.

Low standards.
Nope. Just cunning. I know cunning is a hard concept for Alliance to understand.

[Fojar]

Nope. Just cunning. I know cunning is a hard concept for Alliance to understand.

Running away is cunning now? You just keep on piling on the evidence for the low standards the Horde has.

[Kadifa]

Running away is cunning now? You just keep on piling on the evidence for the low standards the Horde has.
Discretion is the better part of valour, anyone?

Would you rather he stand there and get killed like a good little mob?

[cosmictimelion]

Discretion is the better part of valour, anyone?


Nice one.

[Slowpokeking]

I remember when I was told to get a group to fight Hogger. Guess they're both on the same level of "badassery?"

As for your quote, they had been spying on Blightcaller for some time, they didn't just start and fail in the same afternoon. Besides, the idea that you would've needed an army to fight just Nathanos himself is outright false, because he's easily SOLOABLE if it's just him on his own (you would've been able to do it with 3 or 4 people at 60 if it was just Nathanos.) The "army" was for the waves and waves of adds, so apparently they knew about that.


For new and unexperienced Alliance soldiers, Hogger surely is a little bit badass to them. And that's not from the king/regent of the Alliance.

They didn't give any information to SW except those 2 words, there is no way Bolvar/Varian would know his ability.

Again, don't bring up game mechanic.

[Mustrum]

Discretion is the better part of valour, anyone?

Would you rather he stand there and get killed like a good little mob?

So the Alliance refugees that fled Lordaeron during the Scourge incident weren't cowards abandoning their homes, but rather cunning strategists?

[Fojar]

Discretion is the better part of valour, anyone?

Would you rather he stand there and get killed like a good little mob?

Whether he stood there and got killed or faked his death so he could tuck tail and run, neither is particularly badass in a universe filled with raid bosses.

For new and unexperienced Alliance soldiers, Hogger surely is a little bit badass to them. And that's not from the king/regent of the Alliance.

They didn't give any information to SW except those 2 words, there is no way Bolvar/Varian would know his ability.

Again, don't bring up game mechanic.

So your definition of "badass" is simply "tough to beat?" Geez, apparently we've both been using different definitions of the word.

And you realize that they had been reporting to and from Chillwind Camp for a while, right?

And game mechanics are very relevant when you're talking about his "badassery" as it correlates to how hard he is to kill.

[Slowpokeking]

So the Alliance refugees that fled Lordaeron during the Scourge incident weren't cowards abandoning their homes, but rather cunning strategists?

Well Jaina's choice is not cunning, but wise. Sure others didn't experience the same thing with her.

Thrall also chose to flee from Lordaeron, otherwise he wouldn't be able to build a new nation for his people.

Whether he stood there and got killed or faked his death so he could tuck tail and run, neither is particularly badass in a universe filled with raid bosses.

So your definition of "badass" is simply "tough to beat?" Geez, apparently we've both been using different definitions of the word.

And you realize that they had been reporting to and from Chillwind Camp for a while, right?

And game mechanics are very relevant when you're talking about his "badassery" as it correlates to how hard he is to kill.

He got his duty to take out the Scarlet Crusade and avenge for his death, and like we argued, escape when you are facing too many enemy is a wise choice. If Lothar chose to stay at Stormwind rather than go for help, both he and Varian would be killed for sure.

Yes, but they didn't give much info to SI:7. It's in the quest.

Oh yeah, game mechanics again.

[Kadifa]

So the Alliance refugees that fled Lordaeron during the Scourge incident weren't cowards abandoning their homes, but rather cunning strategists?
I never said anything about Alliance refugees. They never really figured into my argument.

[Mustrum]

I never said anything about Alliance refugees. They never really figured into my argument.

Your argument essentially goes "If you can't win a fight, the cunning thing to do is to flee," yes? I've heard it remarked that the Forsaken are the only true Lordaeronians because they decided not to flee while Jaina and friends did. True, you didn't bring them into the discussion. I'm just idly wondering at the implications of your point.

[Kadifa]

Your argument essentially goes "If you can't win a fight, the cunning thing to do is to flee," yes? I've heard it remarked that the Forsaken are the only true Lordaeronians because they decided not to flee while Jaina and friends did. True, you didn't bring them into the discussion. I'm just idly wondering at the implications of your point.
Take what you want out of it.

[Fojar]

He got his duty to take out the Scarlet Crusade and avenge for his death, and like we argued, escape when you are facing too many enemy is a wise choice. If Lothar chose to stay at Stormwind rather than go for help, both he and Varian would be killed for sure.

Yes, but they didn't give much info to SI:7. It's in the quest.

Oh yeah, game mechanics again.

"Taking out the Scarlet Crusade and avenging his death" were both done by the player, not him.

And people don't call Lothar badass for fleeing Stormwind, they call him badass for being one of the best warriors in Azerothian history despite being an old man, as well as for his chivalrous nobility.

They had enough info to know that he was powerful enough to require many people to defeat, and we know from the actual fight that this is on account of the fact that he summons waves of skeletons. Had he not done that he would've easily been killable by a handful of players. Hence, they knew about the necromancy.

[Millenia]

While Nathanos hasn't been shown as a badass, he still carries the attitude rather well.

Also keep in mind that that was in the time before NPCs did things in quests if they weren't escorts or had to be defended. Heck, it wasn't until BC when one had to escort a competent NPC (Demolitionist Legoso in Azuremyst; he tanks, he spanks, he heals, he even makes Julienne fries!). So, I'm willing to give him a bit of leeway for that.

While he was rather iconic as a Forsaken hunter before they were made available to PCs, the fact that all he does is stand in the Undercity is a failure on Blizzard's part to capitalize on him. And it's not like they couldn't have had him out in the field, either, since Belroc and Harrison Jones are archaeology trainers and go out and do stuff in Uldum (quality nonwithstanding).

Perhaps one day Forsaken will be featured in a book again, and perhaps then he'll get to kick butt.

[Slowpokeking]

"Taking out the Scarlet Crusade and avenging his death" were both done by the player, not him.

And people don't call Lothar badass for fleeing Stormwind, they call him badass for being one of the best warriors in Azerothian history despite being an old man, as well as for his chivalrous nobility.

They had enough info to know that he was powerful enough to require many people to defeat, and we know from the actual fight that this is on account of the fact that he summons waves of skeletons. Had he not done that he would've easily been killable by a handful of players. Hence, they knew about the necromancy.

He's directing you to lure out the Oracle and kill her. A general doesn't need to do everything, actually most of the killing by himself.

You still don't know what badass is. Badass is not take on every enemy in all kind of situation, badass is make the best decision under the situation, especially for a military commander. Just like Lothar, he chose to run when he's lack of help, but come back when he got army behind him.

What info? Just 2 words is enough to know how powerful he is? Did anything beside game mechanic show how did the fight go?

Do you know why they made him enough for 5-10 people to take out in the game? Because it's just some blue reward quest. The Horde version is just a PVE quest. Even though, it's still more difficult to do it rather than kill the Oracle because Horde players will aid him. I've worked with like 5 people to stop 20+ Alliance from killing him for a long while.

Your argument essentially goes "If you can't win a fight, the cunning thing to do is to flee," yes? I've heard it remarked that the Forsaken are the only true Lordaeronians because they decided not to flee while Jaina and friends did. True, you didn't bring them into the discussion. I'm just idly wondering at the implications of your point.

Not all Loraderon people were gathered by Jaina, she's not their queen or princess, just some friend of their prince. Many of them might not even know about that.

[Fojar]

He's directing you to lure out the Oracle and kill her. A general doesn't need to do everything, actually most of the killing by himself.

You still don't know what badass is. Badass is not take on every enemy in all kind of situation, badass is make the best decision under the situation. Just like Lothar, he chose to run when he's lack of help, but come back when he got army behind him.

What info? Just 2 words is enough to know how powerful he is? Did anything beside game mechanic show how did the fight go?

Do you know why they made him enough for 5-10 people to take out in the game? Because it's just some blue reward quest. The Horde version is just a PVE quest. Even though, it's still more difficult to do it rather than kill the Oracle because Horde players will aid him. I've worked with like 5 people to stop 20+ Alliance from killing him for a long while.

If telling players to do things is what makes him badass then why don't we call all questgivers badass?

And your definition of "badass" seems to be wildly different from most. I think that you're just changing the definition to suit your argument.

And these SI:7 agents had been reporting to and from Chillwind Camp. You act like two words is all the intel that they got.

Not sure what your last paragraph was about, it doesn't change anything about the fact that Nathanos himself wasn't very hard to beat; it was the adds and Horde interference that made it difficult. Heck, that may be why you were advised to "bring an army." Because they were expecting the Horde to intervene.

Not all Loraderon people were gather by Jaina, she's not their queen or princess, just some friend of their prince. Many of them might not even know about that.

She was the Princes fiancee and effectively already a member of the Royal Family. Why WOULDN'T they know about that?

[Slowpokeking]

If telling players to do things is what makes him badass then why don't we call all questgivers badass?

And your definition of "badass" seems to be wildly different from most. I think that you're just changing the definition to suit your argument.

And these SI:7 agents had been reporting to and from Chillwind Camp. You act like two words is all the intel that they got.

Not sure what your last paragraph was about, it doesn't change anything about the fact that Nathanos himself wasn't very hard to beat; it was the adds and Horde interference that made it difficult. Heck, that may be why you were advised to "bring an army." Because they were expecting the Horde to intervene.

Depend on what the quest is. He made a plan to let you take out Grand Crusader's Most trusted advisor without spend much effort. That's pretty smart. Generals don't do the killing by themselves, does that make them not badass? Or do you really understand what makes a military commander badass?

They didn't know anything about the Blightcaller at that time, otherwise they wouldn't ask you to do all the investigation.

Yeah, he's not hard to beat in the game, that's game mechani. If such blue reward require entire raid to kill him that's silly. Nefarian's three drakes were more difficult to beat than Onyxia when BWL just came out, does that mean those drakes are above such a mature dragon? Come on, stop this.


She was the Princes fiancee and effectively already a member of the Royal Family. Why WOULDN'T they know about that?

What power does a finance have in a kingdom? Could she gather people and let them go when both the king and the prince's decision is to stay here? As for after Arthas' betrayal, many people had already been killed, the kingdom was in total chaos, it's impossible to gather people all together and sail to the west.

[Bryn]

And these SI:7 agents had been reporting to and from Chillwind Camp. You act like two words is all the intel that they got.


They don’t even realize that “Nathanos” and “Blightcaller” are the same person until the player goes to scout out his house. In fact…

The only information we have thus far, then, is that Nathanos Marris may have been slain by this Blightcaller. We assume the Blightcaller is the same fiend that disposed of my agents.

It really doesn’t sound like they’d heard anything but those two words. The quest text gives the impression that Bolvar/Varian is concerned about the threat Nathanos poses mainly because of his reputation as a human.

Edit: It's pretty clear that they see Nathanos Blightcaller as mentally and morally different from Nathanos Marris, but that doesn't mean they think his abilities have changed.

[Slowpokeking]

They don’t even realize that “Nathanos” and “Blightcaller” are the same person until the player goes to scout out his house. In fact…



It really doesn’t sound like they’d heard anything but those two words. The quest text gives the impression that Bolvar/Varian is concerned about the threat Nathanos poses mainly because of his reputation as a human.

Thanks for point that out.

Nathanos is dangerous because he's a human ranger lord, he knew the human Alliance much better than other Horde members. That's why I don't understand left him home and train hunters.

[Fojar]

They don’t even realize that “Nathanos” and “Blightcaller” are the same person until the player goes to scout out his house. In fact…

That doesn't mean that they couldn't have gotten evidence of his necromantic abilities beforehand. My point is that yeah, Blightcaller is strong, especially if he retains the abilities he had while he was a human (which isn't uncommon for undead) but Blightcaller himself isn't so much dangerous as the army he can create is dangerous. You fight an army with an army.

I still fail to see how this makes him more "badass" than any other powerful NPC, and the fact remains that making him "fake his death" REALLY cheapens one of the more memorable Alliance questlines from Vanilla. You actually felt good after completing the "Kill the Blightcaller" questline thanks to Bolvar's reassurance but now that's irrelevant because he's not dead on account of the fact that Blizzard wanted a hunter trainer who occasionally calls lowbies "imbeciles."

[Ku'ja]

This thread is still going on ?..... :disgust:

[Mustrum]

That doesn't mean that they couldn't have gotten evidence of his necromantic abilities beforehand. My point is that yeah, Blightcaller is strong, especially if he retains the abilities he had while he was a human (which isn't uncommon for undead) but Blightcaller himself isn't so much dangerous as the army he can create is dangerous. You fight an army with an army.

I still fail to see how this makes him more "badass" than any other powerful NPC.

The ability to command an army that gives pause to a band of adventurers is pretty badass, I would think.

I mean, we kill warlords, demons, gods...this is just one guy plus pets, and he was tougher than any level equivalent dungeons.

But I agree, retconning his death was a dick move.

[Slowpokeking]

That doesn't mean that they couldn't have gotten evidence of his necromantic abilities beforehand. My point is that yeah, Blightcaller is strong, especially if he retains the abilities he had while he was a human (which isn't uncommon for undead) but Blightcaller himself isn't so much dangerous as the army he can create is dangerous. You fight an army with an army.

I still fail to see how this makes him more "badass" than any other powerful NPC.

He's a strong fighter himself, a tactical genius, he knew the human Alliance better than most of the Horde officials, yeah that's pretty bad ass and dangerous.



But I agree, retconning his death was a dick move.

Because after they brought him back he was left as a hunter trainer.

[Mustrum]

Because after they brought him back he was left as a hunter trainer.

I was thinking more like Fojar's reason. Killing him meant something, back in the day. It was something you could congratulate yourself for. Saying that he was just 'playing dead' is kind of a slap in the face to all those players who spent so much time trying to bring him down.

[Slowpokeking]

I was thinking more like Fojar's reason. Killing him meant something, back in the day. It was something you could congratulate yourself for. Saying that he was just 'playing dead' is kind of a slap in the face to all those players who spent so much time trying to bring him down.

That's a lot better than Mal'ganis and Cenarius' case.

[Mustrum]

That's a lot better than Mal'ganis and Cenarius' case.

Cenarius? Perhaps. But bitches don't know 'bout our powers of resurrection.

[Millenia]

A good chunk of killed named NPCs were retconned from vanilla, except when they were handwaved away by "X, son of X".

[Fojar]

The ability to command an army that gives pause to a band of adventurers is pretty badass, I would think.

I mean, we kill warlords, demons, gods...this is just one guy plus pets, and he was tougher than any level equivalent dungeons.

It wasn't one guy plus pets. It was one guy, plus pets, plus an army of skeletons. The only reason you needed a large group was because of adds, not because of Blightcaller himself.

He's a strong fighter himself, a tactical genius, he knew the human Alliance better than most of the Horde officials, yeah that's pretty bad ass and dangerous.

You still haven't given a very good explanation for what warrant's "badassery." If it's power, he's not badass because he's no stronger than any other dungeon boss. If it's knowledge of the Alliance, then he's not any more badass than any other Alliance NPC. If it's knowledge of the enemy, then he's no more badass than any given Forsaken or Death Knight, along with characters like Varian and Thrall. If it's simply being dangerous then he's less badass than any other raid boss, plus his knowledge of Alliance tactics also means that the Alliance has knowledge of his tactics.

He's literally no different from any other Elite NPC or Dungeon Boss, the only difference being he comically abuses the PC. THAT is where his fanbase comes from, not because he would get killed several times a day by Alliance raids.

[Slowpokeking]

Cenarius? Perhaps. But bitches don't know 'bout our powers of resurrection.

Well Nathanos is undead, he could still be rezed after killed even if his body was badly damaged, we can look at Dar'khan.

That's why I don't understand the Lich King said "I sent you guys to die" rather than "Don't worry, I will bring you all back after that, you know that's cool for being undead"when he's attacking the Chapel.

[Mustrum]

Well Nathanos is undead, he could still be rezed after killed even if his body was badly damaged, we can look at Dar'khan.

That's why I don't understand the Lich King said "I sent you guys to die" rather than "Don't worry, I will bring you all back after that, you know that's cool for being undead"when he's attacking the Chapel.

Plot holes? In my Blizzard game?

It's more likely than you think!

[Slowpokeking]

You still haven't given a very good explanation for what warrant's "badassery." If it's power, he's not badass because he's no stronger than any other dungeon boss.

Did all other dungeon bosses require you to bring an army, and that's from the king/regent's mouth? Don't bring game mechanic again. You also don't understand how important is tactical knowledge in the war right?


If it's knowledge of the Alliance, then he's not any more badass than any other Alliance NPC.

As a former high rank military commander of the Alliance, I don't think many Alliance got more knowledge of the Alliance military than him. Also he's the Alliance's enemy now, that makes him very dangerous.


If it's knowledge of the enemy, then he's no more badass than any given Forsaken or Death Knight, along with characters like Varian and Thrall.

No, most of the Forsaken are not former high rank officials of the Alliance, they don't know that much, Death Knights are the same.

If it's simply being dangerous then he's less badass than any other raid boss, plus his knowledge of Alliance tactics also means that the Alliance has knowledge of his tactics.

Raid Boss? Well most of the important raid bosses can overpower many faction leaders. Without other's help Varian would be smashed by Onyxia, especially f you bring up game mechanic.

Yes, they knew him well, but he could simply just advise and help others take on the Alliance, just like Kel'Thuzad helped Arthas siege Dalaran.

He's literally no different from any other Elite NPC or Dungeon Boss, the only difference being he comically abuses the PC. THAT is where his fanbase comes from, not because he would get killed several times a day by Alliance raids.

No, do his quest, look at the text from both side's quests. More than 1 people already gave that to you in this thread.

[Fojar]

Did all other dungeon bosses require you to bring an army, and that's from the king/regent's mouth? Don't bring game mechanic again. You also don't understand how important is tactical knowledge in the war right?

Every single raid boss in the game requires you to bring an "army." You're basing your entire argument on a throwaway line from Bolvar telling you in a not particularly subtle way that you'll need a raid group to kill him?

Don't give me this "dat's just gameplay mechanics" nonsense. Everything we know about his strength in a fight comes from the fight itself, which is just as canon as everything else here.

You aren't told to "bring an army" when you're given quests that lead to Dragon Soul, guess that means that Blightcaller is stronger than Deathwing? I'm beginning to see why people hate you on these forums.

As a former high rank military commander of the Alliance, I don't think many Alliance got more knowledge of the Alliance military than him. Also he's the Alliance's enemy now, that makes him very dangerous.

Er, anyone in the Alliance military would know more about the Alliance military than he does. He knows about general Alliance tactics and strategies but those should be obvious to anyone in the Horde after all this time, plus I would imagine that tactics and strategies have changed since the Third War.

No, most of the Forsaken are not former high rank officials of the Alliance, they don't know that much, Death Knights are the same.

But what of those that are? Are they suddenly just as "badass" as Blightcaller?

Raid Boss? Well most of the important raid bosses can overpower many faction leaders. Without other's help Varian would be smashed by Onyxia, especially f you bring up game mechanic.

Blightcaller is a raid boss in the sense that it took a raid to beat his skeleton army. Blightcaller himself is very weak without his skeletons. That is what you refuse to understand.

Yes, they knew him well, but he could simply just advise and help others take on the Alliance, just like Kel'Thuzad helped Arthas siege Dalaran.

Yeah, a desk job is certainly "badass."

No, do his quest, look at the text from both side's quests. More than 1 people already gave that to you in this thread.

I have. I also did the fight back in Vanilla, and I'm starting to think that I'm the only one in this thread who did.

[Mustrum]

If it's power, he's not badass because he's no stronger than any other dungeon boss.

Yes, he is. And how many other dungeon bosses have survived the assault on their dungeon?

[Fojar]

Yes, he is. And how many other dungeon bosses have survived the assault on their dungeon?

If Cataclysm is any indication, all of them.

And he was weaker than many Scholomance and Stratholme bosses in Vanilla, especially if you brought a high DPS group. Blightcaller himself could be burned down quickly.

[Slowpokeking]

Every single raid boss in the game requires you to bring an "army." You're basing your entire argument on a throwaway line from Bolvar telling you in a not particularly subtle way that you'll need a raid group to kill him?

"Gather an army, <name>. Return to the Plagues with your army and destroy the Blightcaller.

I wish you luck, <name>. Truly, you will need it for this battle. "

Oh really?

Don't give me this "dat's just gameplay mechanics" nonsense. Everything we know about his strength in a fight comes from the fight itself, which is just as canon as everything else here.

Oh yeah? So before the patch Varian is some super weak dude? A deer in Azshara is stronger than 5 lions in the Barrens?

You aren't told to "bring an army" when you're given quests that lead to Dragon Soul, guess that means that Blightcaller is stronger than Deathwing? I'm beginning to see why people hate you on these forums.

We got tons of other sources to see how badass Deathwing is. He's a serious threat to the whole world and require other aspects to unite against him. It's pointless to continue like this.

As for some other raid bosses, we are not sure, maybe most of them are stronger than him, but it's not much different for some faction leaders. and Nathanos is dangerous mostly as a military official. Tactical knowledge don't go away when human became undead.


Er, anyone in the Alliance military would know more about the Alliance military than he does. He knows about general Alliance tactics and strategies but those should be obvious to anyone in the Horde after all this time, plus I would imagine that tactics and strategies have changed since the Third War.

As a soldier or low rank dudes you can't know many things, especially the structure, the big pic.

No, most of the Horde leaders didn't fight humans too much, and you don't know many things unless you once were one of them.



But what of those that are? Are they suddenly just as "badass" as Blightcaller?

He got more knowledge of the Alliance military than most of the Horde, and his other ability already been brought up more than once.

Blightcaller is a raid boss in the sense that it took a raid to beat his skeleton army. Blightcaller himself is very weak without his skeletons. That is what you refuse to understand.

Game mechanics again, sigh.


Yeah, a desk job is certainly "badass."

A chief advisor and commander is not badass? Seems like you only take those who fought in the frontline as badass


I have. I also did the fight back in Vanilla, and I'm starting to think that I'm the only one in this thread who did.

We already discussed that.


I'm done here, tired to see you bring up game mechanic as the evidence and keep ignoring his tactical knowledge.

[Gadinhad]

When has an adviser ever been badass?

[Mustrum]

If only Thornby were here...

[Fojar]

"Gather an army, <name>. Return to the Plagues with your army and destroy the Blightcaller.

I wish you luck, <name>. Truly, you will need it for this battle. "

Oh really?

Yeah really. 3 words constitutes a throwaway line. The rest of the stuff you bolded is irrelevant.

Oh yeah? So before the patch Varian is some super weak dude? A deer in Azshara is stronger than 5 lions in the Barrens?

Don't shove words into my mouth. If you're talking about someone's relative strength in combat, then testing them in combat is an accurate gauge here, especially if your stance on how "badass" he is is reliant on him being really good in combat (which is what it is reliant on for many Blightcaller fanboys.)

He got more knowledge of the Alliance military than most of the Horde, and his other ability already been brought up more than once.

I'm not talking about levels here and never was, I'm talking about Blightcallers ability to fight, and Blightcaller himself didn't need an army to take down. His SKELETON ARMY needed an army to take down.

We got tons of other sources to see how badass Deathwing is. He's a serious threat to the whole world and require other aspects to unite against him. It's pointless to continue like this.

So, "badass" for you just means really strong then?

Because Blightcaller wasn't that strong. If you're proclaiming him to be an epitome of badass then you 'ought to be jizzing your pants for the multitudes of characters who would eat him for breakfast.

As for some other raid bosses, we are not sure, maybe most of them are stronger than him, but it's not much different for some faction leaders. and Nathanos is dangerous mostly as a military official. Tactical knowledge don't go away when human became undead.

Tacticians who sit behind desks all day and send others to die for them (Like Blightcaller!) aren't very badass.

As a soldier or low rank dudes you can't know many things, especially the structure, the big pic.

No, most of the Horde leaders didn't fight humans too much, and you don't know many things unless you once were one of them.

And yet a low-ranking soldier would still know things like objectives, troop placements, and military strength better than their enemies would.

And Humans make up most of the Alliance army. That's why Garrosh seems to hate them more than Night Elves and why Sylvanas was having so much trouble with the Worgen in Silverpine (she kept trying to engage them like she would the Queensbury-rules Humans.)

He got more knowledge of the Alliance military than most of the Horde, and his other ability already been brought up more than once.

Not only is his knowledge outdated, but his abilities aren't even that exceptional. You obviously have never done the questline at hand.

Game mechanics again, sigh.

We're talking about his combat ability. This isn't gameplay mechanics, it's his fucking combat ability. If you're going to discount the actual fight against Blightcaller then apparently any time there's a fight in World of Warcraft, from raid bosses to level 1 wolves, the lore "stops" during the fight and there's just a big gap?

If we aren't allowed to discern how strong an NPC is by how hard they are to kill, then really you're basing Nathanos "badassery" on an informed ability, just like Sylvanas' tactical competence and Thrall's leadership ability.

Sorry, I'm going to base my opinion here (especially here since this argument is partially metagame) on what I see, not "What Slowpokeking thinks of three lines from Bolvar's dialogue."

A chief advisor and commander is not badass? Seems like you only take those who fought in the frontline as badass

Correct. You can be awesome and cool with a deskjob but I would never prescribe "badass" to someone afraid to fight their own battles like Blightcaller.

I'm done here, tired to see you bring up game mechanic as the evidence and keep ignoring his tactical knowledge.

Your selective interpretation of what constitutes "gameplay mechanics" is as worthless as your definition of "badass."

[Crazyterran]

"Gather an army, <name>. Return to the Plagues with your army and destroy the Blightcaller.

I wish you luck, <name>. Truly, you will need it for this battle. "

Oh really?



Oh yeah? So before the patch Varian is some super weak dude? A deer in Azshara is stronger than 5 lions in the Barrens?



We got tons of other sources to see how badass Deathwing is. He's a serious threat to the whole world and require other aspects to unite against him. It's pointless to continue like this.

As for some other raid bosses, we are not sure, maybe most of them are stronger than him, but it's not much different for some faction leaders. and Nathanos is dangerous mostly as a military official. Tactical knowledge don't go away when human became undead.




As a soldier or low rank dudes you can't know many things, especially the structure, the big pic.

No, most of the Horde leaders didn't fight humans too much, and you don't know many things unless you once were one of them.





He got more knowledge of the Alliance military than most of the Horde, and his other ability already been brought up more than once.



Game mechanics again, sigh.




A chief advisor and commander is not badass? Seems like you only take those who fought in the frontline as badass




We already discussed that.


I'm done here, tired to see you bring up game mechanic as the evidence and keep ignoring his tactical knowledge.

How would his knowledge of Lordaeron tactics be of any help when you are fighting Stormwind? Also, tactics from 10years ago now?

Besides, he was a Ranger Lord, so he was probably more familiar with the tactics of the Rangers, than of the Human armies. (He was also a loner, hanging out in his house when the scourge was invading, instead of out fighting.)

And, yeah, the only thing Blightcaller did that was hard was summon skeletons, and they only spawned if you healed. Once you had a bit of gear, you could just CC the dogs and burn him down with 4-5 people. Easy.

And since when have advisers been badass? Never, that's when.

[Mustrum]

How would his knowledge of Lordaeron tactics be of any help when you are fighting Stormwind? Also, tactics from 10years ago now?

Besides, he was a Ranger Lord, so he was probably more familiar with the tactics of the Rangers, than of the Human armies. (He was also a loner, hanging out in his house when the scourge was invading, instead of out fighting.)

And, yeah, the only thing Blightcaller did that was hard was summon skeletons, and they only spawned if you healed. Once you had a bit of gear, you could just CC the dogs and burn him down with 4-5 people. Easy.

And since when have advisers been badass? Never, that's when.

Don't you start.

[GenyaArikado]

Xavius was.

[Crazyterran]

Don't you start.

You got assed again? For what this time?

EDIT: And Fojar is right, in this case. Blightcaller isn't all that special, unless calling the adventurer an imbecile makes him cool.

[GenyaArikado]

Katrana was badass, Varimathras was badass, Kel'Thuzad was badass

[Gadinhad]

How was Varimathras badass? He got told, then stomped, then stomped again.

[Slowpokeking]

How would his knowledge of Lordaeron tactics be of any help when you are fighting Stormwind? Also, tactics from 10years ago now?

Besides, he was a Ranger Lord, so he was probably more familiar with the tactics of the Rangers, than of the Human armies. (He was also a loner, hanging out in his house when the scourge was invading, instead of out fighting.)

And, yeah, the only thing Blightcaller did that was hard was summon skeletons, and they only spawned if you healed. Once you had a bit of gear, you could just CC the dogs and burn him down with 4-5 people. Easy.

And since when have advisers been badass? Never, that's when.

They were all part of the Alliance and once fought together, they communicate a lo. Otherwise why would he a get such high praise from the king of Stormwind? The elves quit the Alliance some time after the war.

Nathanos' accomplishments were unprecedented. He was a tactical genius, responsible for Alliance victories spanning a decade of conflict.

He said "I was overwhelmed", that mostly meant his men had been killed then raised, not he was fighting alone.

Game mechanic, oh again.

You don't understand the importance of the advisor right? That's not the only he could play though.

Anyway, you can argue all you want, but sadly the regent/king of the human Alliance disagrees with you.

[Fojar]

He said "I was overwhelmed", that mostly meant his men had been killed then raised, not he was fighting alone.

Fanon.

Game mechanic, oh again.

You're a tool.

Anyway, you can argue all you want, but sadly the regent/king of the human Alliance disagrees with you.

Nobody is saying that Blightcaller was an average enemy, but you're SEVERELY overstating his personal competence in battle. Again, the difficulty of the fight came not from Blightcaller himself, but from the skeletons he summoned. "Hurr durr gameplay mechanics" don't apply here, because without those skeletons he's a joke and his "badass" quotient is an informed aspect.

In fact, Bolvar never said "he's a badass." He said "he's dangerous." You just have a very loose definition of "badass" which is usually the case when it's applied to Horde characters.

[Xilizhra]

Why the hell are people trying to precisely quantify the definition of "badass?"

[HalfElfDragon]

Why the hell are people trying to precisely quantify the definition of "badass?"

What, because otherwise we're having important conversations here?

[Gadinhad]

Why the hell are people trying to precisely quantify the definition of "badass?"

Because it's far better than trying to decide how to redeem an irredeemable character.

[Fojar]

Why the hell are people trying to precisely quantify the definition of "badass?"

What I'm saying is that if you consider Blightcaller badass then you have to have a very broad spectrum of "badassery" that can be applied to so many things that you may as well not have any conception of the term.

[Xilizhra]

What I'm saying is that if you consider Blightcaller badass then you have to have a very broad spectrum of "badassery" that can be applied to so many things that you may as well not have any conception of the term.
I don't consider the term worth the breath expended in saying it, so maybe I'm not the best judge.

Because it's far better than trying to decide how to redeem an irredeemable character.
No such thing, so long as said character possesses free will. If they don't, they aren't truly evil and don't technically need redemption so much as freedom.

[Gadinhad]

Sorry cupcake but there are people who are truly evil that also possess free will.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. In Sylvia's case, she just wants to ooze it.

[Xilizhra]

Sorry cupcake but there are people who are truly evil that also possess free will.

Some people just want to watch the world burn. In Sylvia's case, she just wants to ooze it.
Irrelevant. All of them are still capable of redemption.

[Fojar]

No such thing, so long as said character possesses free will. If they don't, they aren't truly evil and don't technically need redemption so much as freedom.

This is backwards. It's impossible to be truly evil UNLESS you have free will.

[Gadinhad]

Irrelevant. All of them are still capable of redemption.

Nope. Truly evil is never capable of redemption.

Hence truly.

[Xilizhra]

Nope. Truly evil is never capable of redemption.

Hence truly.
Then I suppose there's no such thing by your definition.

This is backwards. It's impossible to be truly evil UNLESS you have free will.
Same thing.

[Gadinhad]

Yes, there's no such thing as redemption in Sylvanas' case. Glad we settled that little matter.

[HalfElfDragon]

There's a difference between 'not doing evil things anymore' and 'not being evil anymore'.

Free will can always do the first, but it can't always do the second.

[Xilizhra]

Yes, there's no such thing as redemption in Sylvanas' case. Glad we settled that little matter.
Is it common to say that acting stupid is a good debate finisher where you come from?

[Fojar]

Same thing.

Except your definition of redemption is far more liberal than what actually constitutes redemption.

[Xilizhra]

Except your definition of redemption is far more liberal than what actually constitutes redemption.
Read, your definition of redemption.

[Gadinhad]

Is it common to say that acting stupid is a good debate finisher where you come from?

I wouldn't say that when you can't even fully comprehend what I mean by my post.

But then again, you've already said the debate is finished, so what else is there to say? I walk away victorious, you walk away ignorant.

[Xilizhra]

I wouldn't say that when you can't even fully comprehend what I mean by my post.

But then again, you've already said the debate is finished, so what else is there to say? I walk away victorious, you walk away ignorant.
Think about this. There's no logical way you could have parsed "Sylvanas is incapable of redemption" from "there's no such thing [as true evil]," which is what I posted earlier.

[HalfElfDragon]

http://images.wikia.com/starwars/images/1/14/Got_A_Bad_feeling.jpg

[Gadinhad]

Think about this. There's no logical way you could have parsed "Sylvanas is incapable of redemption" from "there's no such thing [as true evil]," which is what I posted earlier.

What you aren't parsing here is that Sylvanas is truly evil, hence incapable of redemption.

It's really that simple.

[Fojar]

Here's a question Xil.

How do you redeem someone who doesn't want to be redeemed?

[Xilizhra]

Here's a question Xil.

How do you redeem someone who doesn't want to be redeemed?
Mindfuckery. I'm a bit surprised the naaru don't know how to do this yet, but if their whole "visions of peace and light" bit can be researched, understood and duplicated, some modifications to the priestly mind control spell and possibly a bizarre engineering device could create a sort of "make encroaching evil thoughts go away" beam. The applications it might have would be tremendous.

If that's not an option, in Sylvanas' case, giving her a way out of Hell that she can independent confirm and pursue, hopefully in such a way that she'll genuinely become less evil.

[HalfElfDragon]

That's sounds as bad as what Sylvanas does

[Xilizhra]

That's sounds as bad as what Sylvanas does
Fair enough. Make it robotically operated, then have it turn on me after Sylvanas so that I regret it afterwards (but of course find it impossible to reverse).

Though on a more serious note, I find it difficult to understand why this is considered worse than killing her.

[HalfElfDragon]

It is killing her.

[Xilizhra]

It is killing her.
But preventing her from winding up in Hell, an infinitely better fate.

[Millenia]

You don't need to go through all that.

Just move her through the Mindslave treatment. I'm sure there's a rather generously selfless person who wishes to perform the long and grueling process pro bono...

[Magistrix Verdande]

If Sylvanas would ever become a big bad... Would she go the Kael'thas way, or is she considered important enough to warrant being the end boss of her own expansion?

Discuss.

[HalfElfDragon]

I can't see Sylvanas headlining her own expansion.

But preventing her from winding up in Hell, an infinitely better fate.

Essentially, it condemns Sylvanas to non-existence. I, personally, would rather be in Hell than cease to exist.

[Sa'danak]

If Sylvanas would ever become a big bad... Would she go the Kael'thas way, or is she considered important enough to warrant being the end boss of her own expansion?

Discuss.
A patch after/during Mop where we kill her in a raid, probably with some contrived reasoning on the Hordes part. Blizzard has never varied this formula even for the few individuals who weren't even villains. Why would they change now?

I also doubt she would get her own expansion, not because shes not a big enough villain, but because her main theme (Undeath) has already been done to death from the start of Wow.
Essentially, it condemns Sylvanas to non-existence. I, personally, would rather be in Hell than cease to exist.
Really? You'd rather spend an eternity (as in, it NEVER ends) in torment and suffering then just enter complete oblivion and have it over with?

[Magistrix Verdande]

Say what you want about Tite Kubo, but his depiction of Hell in BLEACH was fantastic.

[Fojar]

Take my quote out of your signature Verdande.

[Magistrix Verdande]

Take my quote out of your signature Verdande.

Why do you insist on posting stupid shit, if you don't want people to take it to heart?

Are you saying we should ignore everything you say, because none of it is relevant anyways? Is it embarrassing to reflect upon your own stupidity? To be constantly reminded of how utterly ridiculous some of your statements are?

If so, I have no problem at all with removing the signature.

[HalfElfDragon]

Really? You'd rather spend an eternity (as in, it NEVER ends) in torment and suffering then just enter complete oblivion and have it over with?

Absolutely.

Non-existence wouldn't just be like floating in an empty void. It'd be complete nothingness. No thoughts, no feelings, no memories, nothing.

[Magistrix Verdande]

Absolutely.

Non-existence wouldn't just be like floating in an empty void. It'd be complete nothingness. No thoughts, no feelings, no memories, nothing.

Certain world religions have that depicted as the ultimate ideal. Peace.

It is one of the many reasons I do not personally understand Christianity and its belief in immortality in the afterlife. I believe the human mind to become jaded to all things in time. Pain, Joy, Emotion. When felt eternally, it must surely erode and become nothing in the end.

[Fojar]

Why do you insist on posting stupid shit, if you don't want people to take it to heart?

Are you saying we should ignore everything you say, because none of it is relevant anyways? Is it embarrassing to reflect upon your own stupidity? To be constantly reminded of how utterly ridiculous some of your statements are?

If so, I have no problem at all with removing the signature.

No, I'm saying that you're deliberately taking something I said out of context for the purposes of trolling and keeping it in your signature despite me asking you to remove it. I'm pretty sure that's against the rules.

[Magistrix Verdande]

No, I'm saying that you're deliberately taking something I said out of context for the purposes of trolling and keeping it in your signature despite me asking you to remove it. I'm pretty sure that's against the rules.

Very well. Sounds reasonable.

Find me the exact quote that states that it is indeed against the rules, and it'll be removed.

[Fojar]

Very well. Sounds reasonable.

Find me the exact quote that states that it is indeed against the rules, and it'll be removed.

You want me to quote to you that harassment is against the rules?

[Magistrix Verdande]

You want me to quote to you that harassment is against the rules?

You want me to do something. In fact, you want me to do something so bad you went into someone else's thread and made it all about you.

As per usual.

If you want me to do something, make a case. Back up your claims. Your quote in my signature is, like all other people I've quoted and placed into my signature during my time here at SoL, a source of amusement and has nothing to do with "harassing" you. You're unfortunately rather un-important to me, and I have little to gain in harassing you.

I also have little to gain in obeying your commands like some dog. If you want it removed, make a case. Preferably without hijacking other peoples threads.

[Fojar]

You want me to do something. In fact, you want me to do something so bad you went into someone else's thread and made it all about you.

As per usual.

Actually, it was a combination of you ignoring my PM's and putting that in your signature in the first place.

If you want me to do something, make a case. Back up your claims. Your quote in my signature is, like all other people I've quoted and placed into my signature during my time here at SoL, a source of amusement and has nothing to do with "harassing" you. You're unfortunately rather un-important to me, and I have little to gain in harassing you.

For someone who "totally doesn't care" you sure are making a federal case out of me asking you to take something you purposely quoted out of context to me out of your signature. What, it's too hard for you to not act like a jerk to me for once?

I find my quote being presented out of context in your signature to be harassment, especially when you try to avoid removing it with thinly veiled smugness as you smart-ass your way out of obeying the rules.

But ultimately, you want me to make my case? The fact that it's there and that you're refusing to remove it out of spite proves that you care much more about what I say and think than you let on.

[Vil'rexin]

Your quote in my signature is, like all other people I've quoted and placed into my signature during my time here at SoL, a source of amusement and has nothing to do with "harassing" you.So my quote in your signature was to mock me? I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS!?

Seriously though, anything posted by anyone at any time is fair game to be put in a signature. Think before you post.

[Magistrix Verdande]

Blablabla

No. You are worthless and unimportant.

Deal with it.


But ultimately, you want me to make my case? The fact that it's there and that you're refusing to remove it out of spite proves that you care much more about what I say and think than you let on.

Prove it.

I say it's there because it amuses me, and only because it amuses me.

Now get on topic or GTFO the thread. I will ignore all further commentary from you within this thread that is not on-topic. If you want to make your case, do so via PMs.

[Fojar]

No. You are worthless and unimportant.

Deal with it.

And you are an internet troll, the most worthless and pathetic one that I have ever seen.

I'd ask you to deal with it, but your spiteful and bilous nature makes me suspect you're incapable of dealing with anything.

Prove it.

Easy. Look at this thread. I make a simple request from you, a very reasonable one, and you not only ignore it but begin acting like a whining kindergartener for the sole purpose of earning SoL cred, in combination with your aformentioned personal problems (See paragraph 1.)

Now get on topic or GTFO the thread. I will ignore all further commentary from you within this thread that is not on-topic. If you want to make your case, do so via PMs.

No. Not only are you not the lord of the thread, but I've tried to contact you by PM's only to be ignored. Apparently the only way to get you to listen is by calling you out directly so that's what I'm doing. At least out here people can see how pathetic you are.

"Ignore me" if you like, but your conduct in this thread after having a simple request made of you just proves that you hang on every word I say in the hopes of finding new ammunition to troll with. You are the one individual on this forum I know I will always have an audience from, Magistrix Verdande.

So my quote in your signature was to mock me? I THOUGHT WE WERE FRIENDS!?

Seriously though, anything posted by anyone at any time is fair game to be put in a signature. Think before you post.

This isn't a case of "thinking before you post." This is a case of taking something out of context.

It'd be like if I quoted your post just now to make it look like you were accusing Verdande of mocking you like he's mocking me. Under your "rules" people could never be sarcastic unless they wanted people to quote them out of context. It's underhanded and remarkably petty.

[HalfElfDragon]

http://i.imgur.com/BY7zr.jpg
There's no reason this should have gone on for more than three posts.

[Fojar]

There's no reason this should have gone on for more than three posts.

I'm not the one who forced the issue and ignored PM's.

[Vil'rexin]

This isn't a case of "thinking before you post." This is a case of taking something out of context.

It'd be like if I quoted your post just now to make it look like you were accusing Verdande of mocking you like he's mocking me. Under your "rules" people could never be sarcastic unless they wanted people to quote them out of context. It's underhanded and remarkably petty.It's a case of realizing that said quote wasn't a serious post and in fact, a humorous one. Most people here know you dude and would realize you were being sarcastic. Let's be honest, you are one of the most notorious posters here. 95% of us are going to realize it was sarcastic. You are freaking out over nothing honestly and if you did quote what I said, I'd have no issue over it. That's also probably because I don't give two shits about what people think about me on forums though.

[Fojar]

It's a case of realizing that said quote wasn't a serious post and in fact, a humorous one. Most people here know you dude and would realize you were being sarcastic. Let's be honest, you are one of the most notorious posters here. 95% of us are going to realize it was sarcastic. You are freaking out over nothing honestly and if you did quote what I said, I'd have no issue over it. That's also probably because I don't give two shits about what people think about me on forums though.

I don't normally mind being quoted, but in this case it was with the obvious intent of mockery considering the past that Verdande and I have, especially considering that it was taken out of context because it's conducive to that goal.

If someone asked me to take their quote out of my signature I'd do it regardless of whether or not I hated that person or how badly I wanted to keep that quote. If Scytherexx wanted me to remove his Pokemon quote I'd do it. Why? Because it's respectful and ultimately not a big request. It's petty to refuse to do so and I think infinging on what I think is everyone's right to not be misrepresented.

I don't want trouble but it really bothers me to be presented out of context.

[Millenia]

Mom!

Dad!

Why can't we just be a normal family?

[Fojar]

Mom!

Dad!

Why can't we just be a normal family?

This is Scrolls of Lore. "normal" is the last word I'd use to describe it, right underneath "wonktastic" and "duketastrophic."

[Geraldine]

To redeem her, it's to soon to ask that.

Redemption is loaded term. Which people carry it with misconceptions, I prefer change, cause redemption, at least in the sense that people think, is like changing from person A to person Z. Can people change, not really, but you can be a better version yourself that no longer cuases pain, to yourself or others.
Can she change for the better, maybe with medication and help.

But redemption, ask a priest. That's more thier territory.


Her fate can only be based what do they want her to do and what impact does she need to have. Sense Sylvanas death at Arthas hand has had several sources and is meant to be a depressing moment, she is a victim. Yet, in later times she creates more undead and cuases the death of many, the victimizer. The victim turned victimizer. Which I take as her current incarnation.

She is also fills the role of leader and spokes person, where the Forsaken story is told by and represented by her. This has cited to a be problem by fans, but it has yet to be addressed.

She still has people who have sympathies with her, and she is a bit too integrated in gameplay and representation to be remove easily.

Which takes us back to redemption to cool off the hate and keep in place so the Forsaken story is not shaken off the table. Which could just make it worse.


I admire your Fanatism Xilizhra, but it is to soon to ask about Sylvanas redemption, expecaily in the Hostile environment of the forums.

I think it would best if Sylvanas and Forsaken are sidelined a bit and give people some space from them.

Can she be redeemed though, no idea. Not a
Priest, but I do think she can be better. Just not now.


I only read the first and kinda past on the rest, don't exackly want to read though all of it, given the last few post, the vet nature of Sylvanas threads, and a lot of resentment, so my aplogies if this was already stated.

[Slowpokeking]

WOW, this thread turned from share fap file -Blightcaller badass or not-back to the topic?

[SmokeBlader]

WOW, this thread turned from share fap file -Blightcaller badass or not-back to the topic?

Ikr,people hate goth girls...

[Omacron]

Taking a quote someone made and putting it in their signature is not harassment.

At worst, it's passive aggressive. Verdande is well within her rights to have that as her sig.

[Slowpokeking]

Moira is so awesome and pretty.

:D:D

[SmokeBlader]

Moira is so awesome and pretty.

http://clean.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/fuck-that-bitch-scared-yao.png

[Fojar]

Taking a quote someone made and putting it in their signature is not harassment.

At worst, it's passive aggressive. Verdande is well within her rights to have that as her sig.

How is taking it out of context for the purpose of projecting a false image of someone not harassment? Passive aggressive harassment is still harassment.

(Also, I remember in the past Verdande admitted he was a dude, though I could be misremembering.)

[Porimlys]

I guess I should change my signature...

Though mine isn't intended to mock you or anything malicious, merely a tongue in cheek reference to the silly conversations/arguments we tend to have on SoL.

[Fojar]

I guess I should change my signature...

Though mine isn't intended to mock you or anything malicious, merely a tongue in cheek reference to the silly conversations/arguments we tend to have on SoL.

I don't mind your signature because it clearly isn't there with the intent of misrepresenting me.

[Slowpokeking]

http://clean.alltheragefaces.com/img/faces/png/fuck-that-bitch-scared-yao.png

If they redo her character, add more intelligence and use a new model.

[Cantus]

Magistrix, Fojar, cut the crazyness, first warning for the both of you.

Fojar, you need to start learning the difference between harassment and a little trolling. If I was even half as sensitive as you, I'd have banned half this forum for joking around about my reactions to things. Man up for Christ's sake, otherwise you'll never have friends in real life, much less have people listening to your opinion on the net.

Magistrix, the language in your responses to Fojar's requests does constitute harassment (as well as Fojar's own responses including calling you a tool). Trolling isn't a big deal, calling someone an idiot repeatedly is.

[GenyaArikado]

If they redo her character, add more intelligence and use a new model.

She is beautiful in a dwarven way. Nah, seriously, she has the pretty female dwarf face

[Fojar]

Magistrix, Fojar, cut the crazyness, first warning for the both of you.

Fojar, you need to start learning the difference between harassment and a little trolling. If I was even half as sensitive as you, I'd have banned half this forum for joking around about my reactions to things. Man up for Christ's sake, otherwise you'll never have friends in real life, much less have people listening to your opinion on the net.

Magistrix, the language in your responses to Fojar's requests does constitute harassment (as well as Fojar's own responses including calling you a tool). Trolling isn't a big deal, calling someone an idiot repeatedly is.

I'm sorry for overreacting. It does feel like Verdande has a bit of a personal vendetta against me that I'm sick of though, and that might make me overly sensitive I admit.

[Omacron]

I'm sorry for overreacting. It does feel like Verdande has a bit of a personal vendetta against me that I'm sick of though, and that might make me overly sensitive I admit.

Almost everyone on this forum has a personal vendetta against you.

[Slowpokeking]

I'm sorry for overreacting. It does feel like Verdande has a bit of a personal vendetta against me that I'm sick of though, and that might make me overly sensitive I admit.

It's just a game and this is a forum of game lore. So no need to be too serious.

[Sonneillon]

Almost everyone on this forum has a personal vendetta against you.

Pretty much.

It's just a game and this is a forum of game lore. So no need to be too serious.

Quiet you.

[Cantus]

I'm sorry for overreacting. It does feel like Verdande has a bit of a personal vendetta against me that I'm sick of though, and that might make me overly sensitive I admit.You're making excuses. You keep making excuses, you'll never learn how to deal with life properly. Either you man up and accept you need to improve how you communicate as well as how you take things, or you don't and excuse yourself into loneliness.

[Mustrum]

Almost everyone on this forum has a personal vendetta against you.


Unhelpful comment is characteristically unhelpful.

[Fojar]

Almost everyone on this forum has a personal vendetta against you.

I don't really believe that. Like Cantus pointed out, there's a difference between trolling and harassment and most people on this forums actions fall in the former category (and usually with no malevolence in them.)

Verdande however, every time he appears and addresses me it usually takes the form of very harsh harassment. Verdande has told me to kill myself multiple times.

You're making excuses. You keep making excuses, you'll never learn how to deal with life properly. Either you man up and accept you need to improve how you communicate as well as how you take things, or you don't and excuse yourself into loneliness.

A) I don't have a life of lonliness. You realize I do stuff outside of posting on forums, right?

B) I already know that I need to improve how I communicate and take things over the internet. I'm beginning to regret making the effort to apologize in this thread instead of just pretending what happened never did though. It's really beginning to feel like I can't win no matter what I do.

[Omacron]

I don't really believe that. Like Cantus pointed out, there's a difference between trolling and harassment and most people on this forums actions fall in the former category (and usually with no malevolence in them.)

Verdande however, every time he appears and addresses me it usually takes the form of very harsh harassment. Verdande has told me to kill myself multiple times.

I'm pretty sure I've told a few people to kill themselves a few time. I know I've told that to Slowpokeking.

[Fojar]

I'm pretty sure I've told a few people to kill themselves a few time. I know I've told that to Slowpokeking.

And yet I get the feeling that if I did the same thing I'd get slapped with another month-long ban.

[GenyaArikado]

Almost everyone on this forum has a personal vendetta against you.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsknorcvil1qdlkgg.gif

[Cantus]

I don't really believe that. Like Cantus pointed out, there's a difference between trolling and harassment and most people on this forums actions fall in the former category (and usually with no malevolence in them.)

Verdande however, every time he appears and addresses me it usually takes the form of very harsh harassment. Verdande has told me to kill myself multiple times.



A) I don't have a life of lonliness. You realize I do stuff outside of posting on forums, right?

B) I already know that I need to improve how I communicate and take things over the internet. I'm beginning to regret making the effort to apologize in this thread instead of just pretending what happened never did though. It's really beginning to feel like I can't win no matter what I do.Look kid, I can't help you if you're unwilling to help yourself. Either take my advice or don't, but the consequences I speak of aren't relegated to this site alone. Real life is never as forgiving as I am, that much I can guarantee.

[Slowpokeking]

Seriously, it's just a game forum, I don't think it's mature to attack someone on person simply because he/she disagrees some game lore with you, no matter how annoying that is. Of course, know how to express idea and have conversation with people is also important.


I'm pretty sure I've told a few people to kill themselves a few time. I know I've told that to Slowpokeking.

No you didn't.

[Fojar]

Look kid, I can't help you if you're unwilling to help yourself. Either take my advice or don't, but the consequences I speak of aren't relegated to this site alone. Real life is never as forgiving as I am, that much I can guarantee.

Well...you haven't really offered any advice in this thread beyond "improve your internet communication skills and learn to let things go," both of which are admitted problems for me that I've been making an effort to improve. I should point out that this isn't a problem I have in real life however.

That said, my efforts to improve haven't been particularly well received thus far on these forums, which is discouraging.

[Sonneillon]

Seriously, it's just a game forum, I don't think it's mature to attack someone on person simply because he/she disagrees some game lore with you, no matter how annoying that is. Of course, know how to express idea and have conversation with people is also important.

No you didn't.

He felt it so intensely within the blackened walls of the husk he calls a heart it might as well have been spoken, not with whispers or words, but toward the very core of your being with pure intent.

[GenyaArikado]

Seriously, it's just a game forum, I don't think it's mature to attack someone on person simply because he/she disagrees some game lore with you, no matter how annoying that is. Of course, know how to express idea and have conversation with people is also important.




No you didn't.

Omacron strikes me as the kind of person with contacs to get him memory erasing drugs.

[Slowpokeking]

I think Magistrix Verdande's sig is totally OK. If I saw someone use quote like "Moira is awesome" from me I will give it a laugh. It's not even trolling.

However, calling people idiot or kill yourself is a little bit cross the line.

[Sonneillon]

Well...you haven't really offered any advice in this thread beyond "improve your internet communication skills and learn to let things go," both of which are admitted problems for me that I've been making an effort to improve. I should point out that this isn't a problem I have in real life however.

That said, my efforts to improve haven't been particularly well received thus far on these forums, which is discouraging.

To be honest I did notice people sometimes bating you a little bit on previously established behavior. The problem is more often then not you couldn't resist it, which is what I suspect the problem is.

[Cantus]

Well...you haven't really offered any advice in this thread beyond "improve your internet communication skills and learn to let things go," both of which are admitted problems for me that I've been making an effort to improve. I should point out that this isn't a problem I have in real life however.

That said, my efforts to improve haven't been particularly well received thus far on these forums, which is discouraging.Change takes time and a willing audience, but it also requires that you censor yourself. I still see you (among several others) arguing points ad nauseum. I see you getting so invested in things you can't pull yourself out and say "it's ok to disagree." Most importantly, you take every slight or jibe, even the ones that are just trying to be friendly, as a serious insult. Look at me, I'm Lord Cat Nipples, emperor of the milk bowl and cute kittens, but why the hell do I care? Yea, you can quote me on that too.

Learn to lighten up, to joke around, to be more social. That's why this forum exists, to speak your mind without uber-censorship and to be [constructively] critical of both the media and others. We're here not only to share our ideas, but to make sure those ideas are sound, and the best way to do that is to make the environment itself comfortable enough to do that. So, stop trying to impress only your ideas and start being a social animal.

[Slowpokeking]

Fojar's problem is simple.

We were talking about "badass" yesterday. I always think the most important part of true badass is beat the weakness of yourself, that's more important than beat anyone else, that includes:

Show your enemy respect and give them praise when they are truly strong, but always believe you are gonna bring them down.

Most of the badass people in real life I've seen got this.

[GenyaArikado]

le tvtropes description

Rule Of Cool personified.

Badass is an adjective used to describe a character who gets away with outright insane stunts (defusing a bomb with their teeth, conning a mob boss, getting into a firefight with the entire army, etc.) that would be VERY hard to pull off in real life, or would get the person trying it killed several times over. A Badass is a fantasy figure whom the audience roots for precisely because of how prone they are to awesome moments, to the point where they stretch or break the Willing Suspension of Disbelief. Of course, Willing Suspension of Disbelief may still be maintained depending on the mechanics of the universe.

It's notable that fans are more likely to tolerate a violent monster of a "hero" than a befuddled, cowardly Type I Anti Hero.

Most attempts to parody or deconstruct the Badass have turned into Misaimed Fandom — no matter how nutty the character gets (like Rorschach from Watchmen), the fans just cheer on how Badass the character is. This has led to a new trope: the Heroic Sociopath. Writers beware: Take it too far and either God Mode Sue or Jerk Sue will stride Out of the Inferno of your work.

For a child-friendly version of the Badass whose badassery is somewhat diminished by the limitations of the work, see Badbutt.

For a not so complete list of badasses see Badass of the Week.

This trope is not what you say to a Stubborn Mule. Characters that are Badass are often said to have Brass Balls.

So yeah, you could say that technically Fojar was right and Nathanos badassery is informed (because we dont see it). But YMMV

[Fojar]

Change takes time and a willing audience, but it also requires that you censor yourself. I still see you (among several others) arguing points ad nauseum. I see you getting so invested in things you can't pull yourself out and say "it's ok to disagree." Most importantly, you take every slight or jibe, even the ones that are just trying to be friendly, as a serious insult. Look at me, I'm Lord Cat Nipples, emperor of the milk bowl and cute kittens, but why the hell do I care? Yea, you can quote me on that too.

Learn to lighten up, to joke around, to be more social. That's why this forum exists, to speak your mind without uber-censorship and to be [constructively] critical of both the media and others. We're here not only to share our ideas, but to make sure those ideas are sound, and the best way to do that is to make the environment itself comfortable enough to do that. So, stop trying to impress only your ideas and start being a social animal.

I may have overreacted regarding the signature, but I think that I've gotten better about some of the things that you've pointed out. I haven't talked about the Forsaken on these forums for a while.

As for the taking things too seriously, it's difficult to tell when a comment is being made in jest or when it's an actual attack. Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet and what cases constitute an attack and what cases constitute just joking around? I really do want to improve and I'm willing to listen.

[Omacron]

As for the taking things too seriously, it's difficult to tell when a comment is being made in jest or when it's an actual attack.

Assume that any comment on SoL is made in jest.

[Sonneillon]

I may have overreacted regarding the signature, but I think that I've gotten better about some of the things that you've pointed out. I haven't talked about the Forsaken on these forums for a while.

As for the taking things too seriously, it's difficult to tell when a comment is being made in jest or when it's an actual attack. Sarcasm doesn't translate well over the internet and what cases constitute an attack and what cases constitute just joking around? I really do want to improve and I'm willing to listen.

Think of everyone as your highschool buddies if that helps, their all assholes, jerks and douchebags but their your dudes.

*shot in the shoulder*

[C9H20]

Behold, the CURE!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8)

In theory it solves all the problems of the world, though those not using it may disagree.

[Sonneillon]

Behold, the CURE!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wS5xOZ7Rq8)

In theory it solves all the problems of the world, though those not using it may disagree.

*stops backcombing his hair and putting on lipstick*

Not what I was expecting... call me disappointed.

[GenyaArikado]

*stops backcombing his hair and putting on lipstick*

Not what I was expecting... call me disappointed.

Born This Way?

[Slowpokeking]

So yeah, you could say that technically Fojar was right and Nathanos badassery is informed (because we dont see it). But YMMV

I'm not talking about Nathanos, I'm talking about Fojar's attitude toward the Horde. If he could put that aside people won't have so much conflict with him.

[Porimlys]

Born This Way?

not quite

http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/13740_the-cure.jpg

[GenyaArikado]

I'm not talking about Nathanos, I'm talking about Fojar's attitude toward the Horde. If he could put that aside people won't have so much conflict with him.

Oh yeah, a "Raised This Way" video with Sylvanas and Forsaken instead Gaga and her dancers might help regarding to that.





Now seriously, is not that people here adore the forsaken, its just that when he starts arguing against them people get annoyed at him and defend the forsaken.

not quite

http://www.sweetslyrics.com/images/img_gal/13740_the-cure.jpg

At first I didnt understand what did it have to do with the topic. Now I do. And I see BTW first verse in a whole different light

[Slowpokeking]

Now seriously, is not that people here adore the forsaken, its just that when he starts arguing against them people get annoyed at him and defend the forsaken.


Yeah, it's not wise to just spite on everything about something you dislike.

[Sa'danak]

Fojars only issue stems from arguing endlessly about matter that his little to do with the topic matter regarding the Alliance. While I certainly get frustrated when I see this happen, I never really developed the hatred everyone else seems to have. I assume it's because he at the very least puts effort into his arguments construction and I usually find a few well thought out/researched points whenever I peruse his posts. Now that he's attempting to improve, (which is a lot more then several other posters on this board are prepared to do) I think he deserves a chance.

[Jiwat]

Every time I try to think of "a redeemed Sylvanas" I wind up with Poor Unfortunate Souls stuck in my head.

I admit that in the past I've been a nasty
They weren't kidding when they called me, well, a witch
But you'll find that nowadays
I've mended all my ways
Repented, dropped my plague, and made a switch

[Magistrix Verdande]

Oh wow. This is what happens whenever I leave you guys alone for a few hours, huh?

Unhelpful comment is characteristically unhelpful.

Truth should never be censored.

I don't normally mind being quoted, but in this case it was with the obvious intent of mockery considering the past that Verdande and I have, especially considering that it was taken out of context because it's conducive to that goal.

What "past" is that, exactly? Are you insinuating that you and I have had prior dealings, outside the confines of me facepalming at your overblown pro-alliance statements?

I'm sorry for overreacting. It does feel like Verdande has a bit of a personal vendetta against me that I'm sick of though, and that might make me overly sensitive I admit.

Personal vendetta? Again: I don't care about you enough to carry a grudge. You are not important to me on these forums. I put you on ignore during times when you're becoming too unbearable to handle, such as every time a thread about Lordaeron, The Alliance, the Scourge, Sylvanas, new Expansions, Varian Wrynn, Gilneas, Kul Tiras, Dalaran, High Elves or Stromgarde comes up - and I remove you from ignore when you're not becoming too obnoxiously prevalent in the discussions I wish to partake in.

I handle other distrupting elements in a similar way. Soldrethar and Bolvar are/were regular attendees on my ignorelist for similar reasons. While other people - such as Slowpokeking - are often up for consideration due to my facepalming moments, they at least have the personality and decency to act like proper people for me to not simply pretend they do not exist for prolonged periods of time.

Slowpoke is a nice guy, even if he drives me insane at times. You are not. The only reason for me to currently have you un-ignored, is because you haven't been posting a lot recently, because when you do post, it's never something refreshing, new or interesting. It's the same recycled arguments over and over again, and the only thing that's new or surprising is the myriad of ways in which you can transform every single topic in the world into a whine-fest of your pro-alliance-Lordaeron conviction. I have seen you single-handedly ruin threads about Sylvanas, about Gilneas, about the new Scourge with this never-ending train of whining.

So no. No "vendetta". A simple bump on the nose from time to time, to see whether you've actually changed from the last time you were on ignore, or whether it's time for you to go back for a while.

Considering the fact you think that you and I have any "past" what-so-ever makes me extremely curious as to why you'd even consider such a thing, and from coming back and reading your responses in this thread:

"Ignore me" if you like, but your conduct in this thread after having a simple request made of you just proves that you hang on every word I say in the hopes of finding new ammunition to troll with. You are the one individual on this forum I know I will always have an audience from, Magistrix Verdande.

Is borderline disturbing. That kind of talk is what I expect to hear from a anonymous phone call at 3 AM , through rasped breathing.

It is clear you are the sort of person who easily becomes obsessed with things. I do not appreciate becoming one of your obsessions, for whatever cause or reason.

So do us both a favour and just let it go.

[Gortrash]

http://i.imgur.com/tHw0b.gif http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxjlubLtHY1rn1xxfo1_100.gif

[Faine]

http://i574.photobucket.com/albums/ss182/chaaapstick/1zyvddzjpg.gif

[GenyaArikado]

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lvk5ph6Q7O1qgmc70o1_500.gif

[Bolvar]

Mags is a successful troll. Keep that in mind while reading his stuff, and you'll feel a lot less homicidal.

So quoth the wise and benevolent Bolvar.

[Gortrash]

This didn't turn out as I expected...

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lwa7neGjKq1qbnxu6.gif

Mags is a successful troll. Keep that in mind while reading his stuff, and you'll feel a lot less homicidal.

So quoth the wise and benevolent Bolvar.

Hail the wise and benevolent Bolvar!

http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/funny-gifs-hail-the-floor.gif

[JKN117]

I personally would find it funny to see what would happen if Sylvanas just offed herself for real