SPOILER: Tyrael becoming human?

[Omacron]

So I'm not powering through the game as fast as others, both due to my inherent tendency to explore as much as I can in such games, and because I'm preparing for an upcoming move. However, something is... bugging me about Tyrael's newfound humanity.

The ending cutscene of act 1 shows Tyrael removing his wing... armor... things, and becoming human or seemingly human. Am I the only one a little bothered by this?

The original humans or Nephalem, were created by renegade demons and angels mating or combining their essences or whatever metaphyiscal beings do instead of coitus. Now, personally, I've always been a little bothered by the fact that all angels seem to be humanoids in armor with tentacle wings, when compared to all of the various forms demons can take, but what bothers me now is that essentially a depowered angel looks identical to a human.

If that's the case, then couldn't any angels that have removed their wings in the past been "human"? It just strikes me as a bit odd that an angel that chooses to fall can become a human, rather than what I thought was the unique intermingling of demon and angel. I mean, one could (potentially correctly) argue that Tyrael as a fallen angel lacks the raw potential of a nephalem, but even the fact that he's identical to a human being just rubs me the wrong way. It takes humans from "angel+demon" to simply "less than an angel".

[Nazja]

I guess it's time to say goodbye to designer rank :(Le Omacron.
Maybe he chose to take that form. He probably could have taken any form he wanted, but since he associated mortality with humans that was what he became.

[Omacron]

I guess it's time to say goodbye to designer rank :(
Maybe he chose to take that form. He probably could have taken any form he wanted, but since he associated mortality with humans that was what he became.

This isn't fucking reddit.

[Nazja]

This isn't fucking reddit.
I'm not really sure about what being a reddit entails, but if it is what I think it is you don't have to worry. I wasn't trying to vote your post up or down...
The angels, to me, seem to be like wow's ethereals. Able to take any form they wish. If that is the case choosing to take on a human form makes sense, since he want's to live amongst humans.

[Slowpokeking]

Maybe he wasn't truly human yet, just lost his power then took a human form.

The Prime Evils got no real body, can they take angel's body as host?

[Omacron]

I'm not really sure about what being a reddit entails, but if it is what I think it is you don't have to worry. I wasn't trying to vote your post up or down...
The angels, to me, seem to be like wow's ethereals. Able to take any form they wish. If that is the case choosing to take on a human form makes sense, since he want's to live amongst humans.

People on reddit love to put "le" before random nouns. You called me "Le Omacron".

7Z59hE5UA8U

[Leviathon]

So I'm not powering through the game as fast as others, both due to my inherent tendency to explore as much as I can in such games, and because I'm preparing for an upcoming move. However, something is... bugging me about Tyrael's newfound humanity.

The ending cutscene of act 1 shows Tyrael removing his wing... armor... things, and becoming human or seemingly human. Am I the only one a little bothered by this?

The original humans or Nephalem, were created by renegade demons and angels mating or combining their essences or whatever metaphyiscal beings do instead of coitus. Now, personally, I've always been a little bothered by the fact that all angels seem to be humanoids in armor with tentacle wings, when compared to all of the various forms demons can take, but what bothers me now is that essentially a depowered angel looks identical to a human.

If that's the case, then couldn't any angels that have removed their wings in the past been "human"? It just strikes me as a bit odd that an angel that chooses to fall can become a human, rather than what I thought was the unique intermingling of demon and angel. I mean, one could (potentially correctly) argue that Tyrael as a fallen angel lacks the raw potential of a nephalem, but even the fact that he's identical to a human being just rubs me the wrong way. It takes humans from "angel+demon" to simply "less than an angel".

Well maybe the human form is what humans got from the Angels and when they become evil they start to look like the demons they become when they serve the demons. Hence why when Tyrael takes his wings off he looks like a human.

[Ku'ja]

I think it is more to do with his choice of becoming Human instead of being a Angel. The reason i think this is because of Imperius's reaction to what he had done and when he showed Leah it was to show her that he had sacrificed his powers to become Mortal (due to her questioning him).

Otherwise i am not to sure myself other than the fact that i like him in that form.

[Leviathon]

I think it is more to do with his choice of becoming Human instead of being a Angel. The reason i think this is because of Imperius's reaction to what he had done and when he showed Leah it was to show her that he had sacrificed his powers to become Mortal (due to her questioning him).

Otherwise i am not to sure myself other than the fact that i like him in that form.

I for one look forward to our 'Imperius decides he wants to kill everyone' expansion.

[Ku'ja]

I for one look forward to our 'Imperius decides he wants to kill everyone' expansion.

Yeah i was very surprised he never had a bigger role in this expansion within a Act. I do expect the Archangels to have a Civil War of such since technically Diablo would not have come back if it was not for the Humans (plus he simply thinks they are beneath him).

[Mshadowz]

I beat the game and nowhere does it explain how he becomes human. Someone ask Metzen!

[Porimlys]

People on reddit love to put "le" before random nouns. You called me "Le Omacron".

Heaven Forbid!

[Ganishka]

People on reddit love to put "le" before random nouns. You called me "Le Omacron".

7Z59hE5UA8U

Everyone knows Reddit is better than 4chan.

[Volkrin]

Everyone knows Reddit is better than 4chan.

You are quite possibly the last person on the planet I would have expected that from.

[Cantus]

Humanity is the alternate form, the essence of change and potential. The Diablo series isn't about angels and demons, or angelic war, but the essence of attempting to change the inevitable. You, as a hero, aren't supposed to be achieving some prophecy or goal, but rather triumphing over chance and accepted futures to create something that's not only unexpected, but outright unfathomed in comparison with the order envisioned by virtual demigods.

Regardless if you are nephalim or simply a battle-hardened warrior, the point is that Tyrael seeks the ability to choose his future as opposed to fulfilling a prophecy or plan set before him. His story is a parallel to our own characters, a willingness to go above and beyond expectation into the realm of hope and derision, where your future is not predetermined, but rather simply wished for in an enviably prosperous universe. If our characters could not rise from the ashes, or Tyrael succeed in his own right, it is the simple act of attempting to shift the envisioned into a preternatural realm where it is more will and skill than accepted decision that creates a future. Whether he or we honor this determination, someone is going above and beyond the boundaries of order and chaos into the realm of humanity, where the two intertwine to create a whole new world.

[Omacron]

Humanity is the alternate form, the essence of change and potential. The Diablo series isn't about angels and demons, or angelic war, but the essence of attempting to change the inevitable. You, as a hero, aren't supposed to be achieving some prophecy or goal, but rather triumphing over chance and accepted futures to create something that's not only unexpected, but outright unfathomed in comparison with the order envisioned by virtual demigods.

Regardless if you are nephalim or simply a battle-hardened warrior, the point is that Tyrael seeks the ability to choose his future as opposed to fulfilling a prophecy or plan set before him. His story is a parallel to our own characters, a willingness to go above and beyond expectation into the realm of hope and derision, where your future is not predetermined, but rather simply wished for in an enviably prosperous universe. If our characters could not rise from the ashes, or Tyrael succeed in his own right, it is the simple act of attempting to shift the envisioned into a preternatural realm where it is more will and skill than accepted decision that creates a future. Whether he or we honor this determination, someone is going above and beyond the boundaries of order and chaos into the realm of humanity, where the two intertwine to create a whole new world.
TLDR bro


Regardless of how much he wants to change, without being half demonic I don't see how Tyrael could possibly become human.

[ARM3481]

TLDR bro


Regardless of how much he wants to change, without being half demonic I don't see how Tyrael could possibly become human.

I think maybe the idea might be that rather than a combining of angel and demon to create a mix of both in every Nephalem, it's more that both natures canceled each other out, leaving behind something that exists submerged in both demons and angels, while removing the constraints on fate and potential caused by the nature of each.

So in theory, the Naphalem aren't necessarily so potentially powerful because they carry the essence of angel and demon, but because the mixing could have negated both sides and they carry neither. Hence, Tyreal casting off his angelic nature could have resulted in the same essential thing: a being bound by the rigid fate and narrow potential of an angel casting it off.

After all, what becomes of humans who side with the demons? They basically start to become like the demons themselves, and all that infinite potential the Prime Evils are looking to cash in on to use against the High Heavens goes out the window as such individuals just become monstrous servants of the Burning Hells without ambition or power beyond what they're granted by their masters.

In that vein, being an angel or demon may not itself even bring power, but rather define the narrow fate and limited purpose toward which said power is used, which could be what prevented them from using the Worldstone properly whenever either side claimed it.

In short, it may be that on some level, Sanctuary's human's aren't so much walking around with the combined essence of angels and demons in them, but rather demons and angels are walking around with the suppressed essence of humanity in them.

[Leviathon]

I think maybe the idea might be that rather than a combining of angel and demon to create a mix of both in every Nephalem, it's more that both natures canceled each other out, leaving behind something that exists submerged in both demons and angels, while removing the constraints on fate and potential caused by the nature of each.

So in theory, the Naphalem aren't necessarily so potentially powerful because they carry the essence of angel and demon, but because the mixing could have negated both sides and they carry neither. Hence, Tyreal casting off his angelic nature could have resulted in the same essential thing: a being bound by the rigid fate and narrow potential of an angel casting it off.
.

Eh the big thing about humans was that the power of the demons and angels was within them hence why both sides wanted to push them one way or another. Until they had their powers suppressed.

[Gortrash]

The question is not "Why is Tyrael a human?", the question is "Why is he black?".

[Omacron]

The question is not "Why is Tyrael a human?", the question is "Why is he black?".

Why can't he be black? It's not like black people don't exist in sanctuary. Hell, Westmarch, one of the European analogue cultures in Sanctuary, had black paladins.

[SmokeBlader]

The question is not "Why is Tyrael a human?", the question is "Why is he black?".

http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/gif/mrtlol.gif

Because black people kick ass.

[Sonneillon]

I suspect that the Barbarian ancients were angels fallen in a similar way. He might have taken human characteristics but might not be classically human. He does have golden eyes still.

But yeah, I did find the plot point to be a little lame and predictable from the get go, but honestly I loved the Act 1 cinematic enough that it redeemed the entire thing.

[Omacron]

I suspect that the Barbarian ancients were angels fallen in a similar way. He might have taken human characteristics but might not be classically human. He does have golden eyes still.

But yeah, I did find the plot point to be a little lame and predictable from the get go, but honestly I loved the Act 1 cinematic enough that it redeemed the entire thing.

Weren't the Barbarian ancients confirmed to be Nephalem in the Book of Cain? Bul-Kathos et al?

[Gortrash]

Why can't he be black? It's not like black people don't exist in sanctuary. Hell, Westmarch, one of the European analogue cultures in Sanctuary, had black paladins.

Well, it wasn't a serious question and SmokeBladder got it. ;)

[Lon-ami]

LOL at title. Most retarded title ever...

SPOILER: SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE?

[Sonneillon]

LOL at title. Most retarded title ever...

SPOILER: SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE?

Got a laugh out of that too.

[Omacron]

LOL at title. Most retarded title ever...

SPOILER: SNAPE KILLS DUMBLEDORE?

I didn't have to put spoiler in the title yaknow. SoL is kinda all about the benjam- spoilers.

[Nozdormu]

Tyrael is black? Racial bias!

[Omacron]

Tyrael is black? Racial bias!

Always bet on black.

[Dithon1]

Tyrael is black? Racial bias!

Reminds me of Mace Windu for some reason.

[MrManiac]

So I'm not powering through the game as fast as others, both due to my inherent tendency to explore as much as I can in such games, and because I'm preparing for an upcoming move. However, something is... bugging me about Tyrael's newfound humanity.

The ending cutscene of act 1 shows Tyrael removing his wing... armor... things, and becoming human or seemingly human. Am I the only one a little bothered by this?

The original humans or Nephalem, were created by renegade demons and angels mating or combining their essences or whatever metaphyiscal beings do instead of coitus. Now, personally, I've always been a little bothered by the fact that all angels seem to be humanoids in armor with tentacle wings, when compared to all of the various forms demons can take, but what bothers me now is that essentially a depowered angel looks identical to a human.

If that's the case, then couldn't any angels that have removed their wings in the past been "human"? It just strikes me as a bit odd that an angel that chooses to fall can become a human, rather than what I thought was the unique intermingling of demon and angel. I mean, one could (potentially correctly) argue that Tyrael as a fallen angel lacks the raw potential of a nephalem, but even the fact that he's identical to a human being just rubs me the wrong way. It takes humans from "angel+demon" to simply "less than an angel".



I've got two theories on that matter. The first one is that Tyrael became part demon when he shed his wings (providing demons are fallen angels) this is highly improbable though since this connection between the origins of Angels and Demons is mentioned nowhere. The second one is that Tyrael never became human. As far as I remember he referred himself as "mortal". He's probably a humanoid.

[Leviathon]

Demons aren't fallen angels and are created from the remains of Talthamet.

[Odok]

So I'm not powering through the game as fast as others, both due to my inherent tendency to explore as much as I can in such games, and because I'm preparing for an upcoming move. However, something is... bugging me about Tyrael's newfound humanity.

The ending cutscene of act 1 shows Tyrael removing his wing... armor... things, and becoming human or seemingly human. Am I the only one a little bothered by this?

The original humans or Nephalem, were created by renegade demons and angels mating or combining their essences or whatever metaphyiscal beings do instead of coitus. Now, personally, I've always been a little bothered by the fact that all angels seem to be humanoids in armor with tentacle wings, when compared to all of the various forms demons can take, but what bothers me now is that essentially a depowered angel looks identical to a human.

If that's the case, then couldn't any angels that have removed their wings in the past been "human"? It just strikes me as a bit odd that an angel that chooses to fall can become a human, rather than what I thought was the unique intermingling of demon and angel. I mean, one could (potentially correctly) argue that Tyrael as a fallen angel lacks the raw potential of a nephalem, but even the fact that he's identical to a human being just rubs me the wrong way. It takes humans from "angel+demon" to simply "less than an angel".

Considering that Angels are the aspects of creation, it makes sense that a new creation (the nephalem) would adhere to their form as a dominate trait. I tend to see it as the chaos of demonic flesh bound to angelic form.

I also figured it was just Tyrael's exposure to the Worldstone that allowed him to take on the nephalem form.

[ARM3481]

The thing is, unless Tyreal's shown to possess the potential power of a Nephalem, then his humanity doesn't necessarily have to be tied to anything demonic in origin.

Even though angels and demons don't share an immediate origin (as in, neither is simply the "corrupted" form of the other), they do possess a commonality in that at the beginning Tathamet and Anu were once the same singular being.

Tyreal's humanity could simply be the mundane tangible reflection of what lies beneath every angel and demon when stripped of the constraints imposed by their natures. If one brings the Enchantress through Act II, at one point she references the possibility that demons are ultimately incapable of behaving other than they do because their very nature prevents it. Given their relationship with the Scrolls of Fate, angels are likely the same way; while demons are slaves to their evil impulses, angels are slaves to their own knowing, rigid adherence to a predetermined role in existence.

Not to mention, the very fact Inarius, Lilith and their followers were even capable of defying their natures to create Sanctuary suggests that the aspects of reality embodied by Heaven and Hell aren't as exclusionary to each as either side would like to think. Otherwise the renegade angels and demons wouldn't have fled the Eternal Conflict, as such a course of action wouldn't have even occurred to beings who were incapable of sharing a common understanding and breaking from their prescribed roles in the universe.

In a way it's pretty fitting that Tyreal of all archangels broke from the Angiris Council and chose to protect Sanctuary. If one really thinks about it, Sanctuary's the first world in the Diablo universe where true justice can exist, because everyone there is born with the ability to choose and shape their fates. When it comes right down to it, there's really no justice in Heaven or Hell because none of the combatants in the Eternal Conflict was born with a clean slate. Each was born to a rigid purpose, and with a strictly predetermined nature.

After witnessing the infinite potential represented by humanity, is it any wonder Tyreal might have looked at himself and his fellow angels and asked "where's the justice in this?"

[Xen]

I don't think Tyrael is human. Not in the same way as the rest of Sanctuary humans are anyway.

I think Fallen Angel, or depowered Angel is better description. After all, he somehow manages to complete orbital reentry, without dying, than spend 6 days without food or water, and has an ability to become a full blown Angel again as well. I think him dropping his wings is bascially severing his connection to the crystal wind chime thing, so it doesn't directly powers him, and than than sorta transubstantiate temporarily.

I don't think he has potential for becoming "greater than either angel or deamons" the way unsupressed humans can. It's implied that with Worldstone destroyed, all natural born humans will slowly raise up to Nephalem status.

[ARM3481]

I don't think he has potential for becoming "greater than either angel or deamons" the way unsupressed humans can. It's implied that with Worldstone destroyed, all natural born humans will slowly raise up to Nephalem status.

Not necessarily. The most important part of the Nephalem was that their power stemmed from the potential they represented, and their inherent X-Factor of fundamental choice and self-determination that neither demons nor angels truly possess. The idea that every human being will become destined to rise as Nephalem would kind of undermine that whole idea because it would mean rigidly locking humanity into a fate determined by their nature at birth, which is pretty much the opposite of what sets them apart from the denizens of Heaven and Hell.

Their power at its core came from their ability to shape their own fates, which means those who pursue a path toward such power are now capable of achieving it, but a human who lives the life of a common laborer and nothing more isn't going to start shattering boulders with his hands or hurling bolts of lightning without learning the methods to doing so in the first place.

After all, even the original Nephalem pursued various paths of power that shaped what they became rather than working fields or plying other mundane trades that wouldn't call for such power, possibly because without a preexisting human society or infrastructure, all they had to do on ancient Sanctuary under the watch of the renegade angels and demons was seek out the various founts of primal knowledge and magic innate to Sanctuary itself.

[Omacron]

But even a laborer or a craftsman could be really really good at his job with nephalem powers. Like a farmplow could dig entire fields for miles and miles with his mind.


THAT'S TELEKINESIS, KYLE!