Walter Black
07-16-2008, 07:05 AM
Sometimes when reading or watching a good story, you notice similarities to previous ones. Old ideas paid homage to, or re-examined for new and different insights. Unlike some, I don’t think Blizzard outright plagiarizes(though they’ve come pretty close in some cases), sometimes it’s easy to spot influences. There really isn’t anything new under the sun, but you can still put your own spin on what has gone before. This thread isn’t to say, “Blizzard ripped off so and so,” but to celebrate these influences, and examine where Blizzard went with them.
The Lord of the Rings
The Great Granddaddy of ‘em all, and pretty much a given. J.R.R. Tolkien’s specific use of language, history and mythology in the creation of Middle Earth has influenced everything in genre fantasy. No more were elves and dwarves just fey creatures heroes encountered on side adventures, they were powerful races with cultures and aims all their own. Not only did Tolkien bring a personal moral vision to fantasy, he made just one person’s Hero’s Quest an ensemble that affected the whole world. The images of noble humans, elves*, dwarves, wizards and hobbits(or halflings) fighting a desperate battle to save the world from hordes of orcs, trolls, dark wizards and undead has been repeated and reinterpreted countless times in genre fantasy, and Warcraft is no exception.
Now it has been argued, and not without merit, that LotR has caused as much harm as good to fantasy, since to many try to copy it’s formula without giving new concepts a chance. But the pale imitators do nothing to diminish J.R.R. Tolkien’s magnum opus, and while it’s influence in Warcraft is evident, I think Blizzard has tweaked the conventions enough for WoW to stand on it’s own.
*Now that I think about it, in the Rankin-Bass animated adaptation of The Hobbit in the seventies, the Wood Elves’ clothing were covered with leaves, and they had purple skin. Probably an oversight, but it must have resonated later on…
Dungeons & Dragons
Again, as one of the more obvious ones, D&D mixed strategy gaming with fantasy storytelling to influence generations. Being able to create specific, archetypal classes, and run imaginary adventures to fight monsters and find magical treasures with friends, opened up a whole new world for geeks like me. While I haven’t read many of the novels, I can still see the impact of Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms characters and settings in WoW. Drizzit Do’Urden certainly laid some of the groundwork for the Night Elves, and you can see Ravenloft influences all over Duskwood, the Plaguelands, and Northrend. Hell, even Spelljammer has some artistic descendants in Outland.
Warhammer
From the individual heroes of Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer Fantasy Battles(and later Warhamer 40,000) created full blown, epic armies for their table top games. Every army in WH has a specific flavor, both in creative personality and tactics. While Blizzard has re-engineered those archetypes for their own, you can still see the connections:
It could be argued that the Warcraft 1 Stormwind was more like Bretonnia, and that Lordaeron was similar to The Empire, but over time they have evened out in my opinion.
High Elves= High Elves and later Blood Elves
Dark Elves= Blood Elves, with a little High Elves
Night Elves= Wood Elves, with just a little of the Druchii
Dwarves= Dwarfs
Draenei= This is where it gets tricky, for obviously not every comparison works. The Draenei certainly have some Chaos imagery reversed for the good, but the Slann Lizardmen are also a monstrous looking race that fights on the side of Order.
Orcs= Orcs
Trolls= Trolls, but share ancient Mayan and Aztec type cultures with the Lizardmen
Tauren= Beastmen, but completely inverted since the Beastmen are totally evil.
Forsaken= Vampire Counts
Burning Legion= Chaos
The Scourge= Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings
Goblins= Goblins, with tiny bits of Skaven and the Dogs of War
Ogres= Ogre Kingdoms
Terrans= Imperial Guard and Space Marines
Protoss= Eldar and the Tau Empire
Zerg= Tyranids
Can’t think of anything from Warhammer that might have inspired anything in Diablo, except that they both have very dark and apocalyptic atmospheres.
The comparisons aren’t perfect, but in some cases I believe Blizzard expanded on and actually improved on some of Workshop’s ideas. For instances, while the Blizzard races are still archetypal, they’re nowhere near as rigid, allowing for greater diversity and dimension. Most importantly, Blizzard heroes act like heroes, rather than simply slightly less psychotic than the villains. :raisedbro
Star Wars
One of the stories that has transcended popular culture and has become modern mythology, Star Wars certainly speaks with it’s mix of fantasy and science fiction troupes, as well as it’s take on the Hero’s Journey. Warcraft’s Light shares more than a few similarities with Lucas’ Force, as do the tales of Anakin Skywalker and Arthas Menethil**.
**I’ve never understood why some people want Arthas redeemed. They say because it fits his archetype, or that the Alliance needs a powerful human leader. Well, there are already plenty of villains and anti-heroes that became heroes in WoW, and Varian Wrynn is coming back to lead the Alliance, so what else is left? That he was a “handsome prince”, and “knight in shining armor” who had a fling with “Princess” Jaina? Are they really that shallow?
Frankly, even as kid the ending of Return of the Jedi bugged me. So Darth Vader, intergalactic tyrant, traitor and mass murderer, gets into Jedi heaven just because Luke missed playing catch with his old man?:rolleyes:
Star Trek
Another one of the big ones. While the original series popularized using aliens as metaphors for different races, cultures, and aspects of the human condition, in my opinion Star Trek: The Next Generation probably had the greater influence on Warcraft.
Alliance(Humans)= Federation
Night and High Elves= Vulcans
Dwarves= well… Scotty?
Gnomes= Talaxians
Dreanei= Bajorans
Orcs= Klingons
Trolls= I got nothing
Tauren= Chakotay, since like them, he seems to be from “Hollywoodized” Native Americans, rather than any actual tribe.
Blood Elves= Romulans
Forsaken= Lore’s “Sons of Soong” Borg cult from Descent
Goblins= Ferengi
Burning Legion= bits of both the Dominion and Species 8472
Scourge= The Borg
Again, not perfect but these are what comes to my mind.
Gargoyles
This criminally overlooked Disney series from the nineties explored the concept of “good monsters” from the very beginning, and could have easily influenced the orcs’ change(not to mention how much the Dreanei resemble Goliath). While remaining all ages, Gargoyles explored had multifaceted characters and explored mature subject matter while still providing a kick ass sci-fi and fantasy adventure show. Personally, the Goliath and Xanatos exchanges kind of reminded me of the early Thrall and Blackmoore relationship. I get the feeling that as cool an antagonist as David Xanatos is, sometimes Metzen and company just wanted Goliath to strangle him. So they had Thrall do it. :D
Walter Simonson
Chris Metzen has repeatedly sung the praises of his artistic hero, whose The Mighty Thor run in the eighties was a major influence. Not content with writing a regular superhero book, Simonson smashed preconceived notions(and the logo) of the character. Every other issue was on the verge of the end of the world, racing at break neck speed and rarely letting up. The “Ragnarok and Roll!” epic laid the seeds for Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos, and the following storyline had Thor fighting Hela and the legions of undead, culminating in the now classic last stand of Skurge the Executioner. While later issues may not have had the same impact, they were still among the best comics of the time.
Walt Simonson’s take on characters gave us Thor as the ultimate Warrior-Shaman and Balder the proto-Paladin combo, kicking ass and taking names. His rendition of Surtur certainly brings both Archimonde and Ragnaros to my mind, with Beta Ray Bill and Malekith as Dreanei Paladin-Shaman and Illidan Stormrage, respectively. No, they’re not complete ripoffs, but if you read Simonson’s The Mighty Thor trade paperbacks, you can see the genesis.
The Uncanny X-Men(Chris Claremont’s original run especially)
Becoming popular in the mid eighties, Chris Claremont intertwined the notions of prejudice and what it means to be human with epic superhero action. Despite saving the world countless times, as mutants the X-Men were always feared and hated. Particularly interesting is when Claremont tried writing a remorseful Magneto, who saw that all his actions had made things worse for mutant kind, not better, and tried making up for it***. Though it wouldn’t last, I can see how stories like these**** could have given ideas for the New Horde.
*** Some people disagree with this take, saying that Magneto was created to be a fascist rat bastard, and that if Claremont wanted a “Malcolm X” mutant leader, he should have created a new character. Having grown up on Claremont’s version, but later reading the old stories, I can see both points.
****The Blood Elves’ tale easily reminds me of The Dark Phoenix Saga; A powerful and noble people who like dressing in green and gold become defeated and corrupted by an evil force. Hungry for revenge and more power, these people start wearing crimson and gold, only to redeemed in the end through sacrifice. True, it wasn’t the Blood Elves’ sacrifice, but their story isn’t over by a longshot.
David Gemmell
Having only recently gotten around to reading the late British author’s work, I’m amazed at how many of his books remind me of Warcraft. David Gemmell wrote about flawed, yet undeniably noble heroes fighting against impossible odds, where often no one was safe. One similarity with Chris Metzen in particular, Gemmell liked older, seemingly past their prime heroes who actually earned their place, rather than destiny chosen farm boys. In several books I’ve noticed mirroring concepts and even names that Blizzard paid homage to.
SPOILERS IF YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW
Legend(originally titled Against the Horde when it first hit the U.S.)- The first novel in the Drenai(!) series, Legend features the mighty Druss the Axe coming out of retirement at Dros Delnoch, the last major Drenai fortress standing against the invading, mongol Nadir. The action rings of the best Warcraft 2 missions, and several of the characters remind me of Blizzard ones:
Druss= Anduin Lothar(though not quite as noble, certainly as imposing)
Regnak= Danath Trollbane
Virae= a little of Alleria Windrunner
The Thirty= Paladins
Serbiter= a little of both Turalyon and Khadgar
Ulric Khan= Orgrim Doomhammer
The King Beyond the Gate- Much like WC3 subverted expectations, The Drenai were now ruled by a mad emperor, who used the stygian Dark Templars and Joinling beast men to terrorize his subjects. In the Drenai’s time of need, the only one who could save them was the half Nadir leader Tenaka Khan. Even though TKBtG had one major character take a complete 180 that seemed out of nowhere, I enjoyed the book. Oh, and about Metzen’s Blizzcon joke about Thrall marrying Garona? Tenaka, who could be viewed as one of many proto-Thralls, had a wife who was a part panther Joinling.
Waylander- In his quest for redemption, Waylander races against assassins, beast men, and the Dark Brotherhood***** to find the Armor of Bronze and save the Drenai from the invading Vagrians. For Waylander is also the Slayer, the traitor who killed the king. A prequel set in Drenan’s distant past, Waylander also features the origin of The Thirty.
*****Okay, a league of mystical assassins named The Dark Brotherhood sounds more like The Elder Scrolls than Warcraft, but I thought it was too cool to pass up.
Knights of Dark Renown- Once the noblest protectors in the land, the Knights of Gabala have returned from hell and begun a reign of tyranny. Now in order to restore the balance, the once cowardly knight Manannan must help a group of rogues, thieves and murders replace them, turning lost and evil men into good to combat the noble knights turned evil. In it’s own way, this novel provided me with some interesting observations on the nature of Paladins and Death Knights.
Ghost King and Last Sword of Power- A loose retelling of the Arthurian cycle, Last Sword of Power has a northern warlord with powers over the dead, and the heroes form an uneasy alliance with an undead witch queen against him.
The Jerusalem Man series: Wolf in Shadow, The Last Guardian, and Bloodstone- Himself suspiciously reminiscent of Stephen King’s Roland, Jon Shannow is a gun slinging wanderer in a post apocalyptic earth. In his adventures, Shannow fights gangs of thieves, soldiers, renegade psychics, mutants, animal men, time traveling conquerors and demons. Of particular note are the Hellborn, a warrior nation that have been made literally addicted to violence and blood. Though they have different contexts, I encountered the terms Dark Lady and Plaguelands in the Shannow stories.
Lion of Macedon and Dark Prince- With shades of both Arthas and Medivh, these books have an Alexander the Great who, possessed by a Chaos God from birth, desperately needs the book’s hero in fighting for his soul.
Once again, this isn’t to chastise Blizzard for unoriginality, but simply discover where they got their ideas, and how they changed them. There are many, many more influences out there, but this will do me for now. How about you?
The Lord of the Rings
The Great Granddaddy of ‘em all, and pretty much a given. J.R.R. Tolkien’s specific use of language, history and mythology in the creation of Middle Earth has influenced everything in genre fantasy. No more were elves and dwarves just fey creatures heroes encountered on side adventures, they were powerful races with cultures and aims all their own. Not only did Tolkien bring a personal moral vision to fantasy, he made just one person’s Hero’s Quest an ensemble that affected the whole world. The images of noble humans, elves*, dwarves, wizards and hobbits(or halflings) fighting a desperate battle to save the world from hordes of orcs, trolls, dark wizards and undead has been repeated and reinterpreted countless times in genre fantasy, and Warcraft is no exception.
Now it has been argued, and not without merit, that LotR has caused as much harm as good to fantasy, since to many try to copy it’s formula without giving new concepts a chance. But the pale imitators do nothing to diminish J.R.R. Tolkien’s magnum opus, and while it’s influence in Warcraft is evident, I think Blizzard has tweaked the conventions enough for WoW to stand on it’s own.
*Now that I think about it, in the Rankin-Bass animated adaptation of The Hobbit in the seventies, the Wood Elves’ clothing were covered with leaves, and they had purple skin. Probably an oversight, but it must have resonated later on…
Dungeons & Dragons
Again, as one of the more obvious ones, D&D mixed strategy gaming with fantasy storytelling to influence generations. Being able to create specific, archetypal classes, and run imaginary adventures to fight monsters and find magical treasures with friends, opened up a whole new world for geeks like me. While I haven’t read many of the novels, I can still see the impact of Dragonlance and Forgotten Realms characters and settings in WoW. Drizzit Do’Urden certainly laid some of the groundwork for the Night Elves, and you can see Ravenloft influences all over Duskwood, the Plaguelands, and Northrend. Hell, even Spelljammer has some artistic descendants in Outland.
Warhammer
From the individual heroes of Dungeons & Dragons, Warhammer Fantasy Battles(and later Warhamer 40,000) created full blown, epic armies for their table top games. Every army in WH has a specific flavor, both in creative personality and tactics. While Blizzard has re-engineered those archetypes for their own, you can still see the connections:
It could be argued that the Warcraft 1 Stormwind was more like Bretonnia, and that Lordaeron was similar to The Empire, but over time they have evened out in my opinion.
High Elves= High Elves and later Blood Elves
Dark Elves= Blood Elves, with a little High Elves
Night Elves= Wood Elves, with just a little of the Druchii
Dwarves= Dwarfs
Draenei= This is where it gets tricky, for obviously not every comparison works. The Draenei certainly have some Chaos imagery reversed for the good, but the Slann Lizardmen are also a monstrous looking race that fights on the side of Order.
Orcs= Orcs
Trolls= Trolls, but share ancient Mayan and Aztec type cultures with the Lizardmen
Tauren= Beastmen, but completely inverted since the Beastmen are totally evil.
Forsaken= Vampire Counts
Burning Legion= Chaos
The Scourge= Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings
Goblins= Goblins, with tiny bits of Skaven and the Dogs of War
Ogres= Ogre Kingdoms
Terrans= Imperial Guard and Space Marines
Protoss= Eldar and the Tau Empire
Zerg= Tyranids
Can’t think of anything from Warhammer that might have inspired anything in Diablo, except that they both have very dark and apocalyptic atmospheres.
The comparisons aren’t perfect, but in some cases I believe Blizzard expanded on and actually improved on some of Workshop’s ideas. For instances, while the Blizzard races are still archetypal, they’re nowhere near as rigid, allowing for greater diversity and dimension. Most importantly, Blizzard heroes act like heroes, rather than simply slightly less psychotic than the villains. :raisedbro
Star Wars
One of the stories that has transcended popular culture and has become modern mythology, Star Wars certainly speaks with it’s mix of fantasy and science fiction troupes, as well as it’s take on the Hero’s Journey. Warcraft’s Light shares more than a few similarities with Lucas’ Force, as do the tales of Anakin Skywalker and Arthas Menethil**.
**I’ve never understood why some people want Arthas redeemed. They say because it fits his archetype, or that the Alliance needs a powerful human leader. Well, there are already plenty of villains and anti-heroes that became heroes in WoW, and Varian Wrynn is coming back to lead the Alliance, so what else is left? That he was a “handsome prince”, and “knight in shining armor” who had a fling with “Princess” Jaina? Are they really that shallow?
Frankly, even as kid the ending of Return of the Jedi bugged me. So Darth Vader, intergalactic tyrant, traitor and mass murderer, gets into Jedi heaven just because Luke missed playing catch with his old man?:rolleyes:
Star Trek
Another one of the big ones. While the original series popularized using aliens as metaphors for different races, cultures, and aspects of the human condition, in my opinion Star Trek: The Next Generation probably had the greater influence on Warcraft.
Alliance(Humans)= Federation
Night and High Elves= Vulcans
Dwarves= well… Scotty?
Gnomes= Talaxians
Dreanei= Bajorans
Orcs= Klingons
Trolls= I got nothing
Tauren= Chakotay, since like them, he seems to be from “Hollywoodized” Native Americans, rather than any actual tribe.
Blood Elves= Romulans
Forsaken= Lore’s “Sons of Soong” Borg cult from Descent
Goblins= Ferengi
Burning Legion= bits of both the Dominion and Species 8472
Scourge= The Borg
Again, not perfect but these are what comes to my mind.
Gargoyles
This criminally overlooked Disney series from the nineties explored the concept of “good monsters” from the very beginning, and could have easily influenced the orcs’ change(not to mention how much the Dreanei resemble Goliath). While remaining all ages, Gargoyles explored had multifaceted characters and explored mature subject matter while still providing a kick ass sci-fi and fantasy adventure show. Personally, the Goliath and Xanatos exchanges kind of reminded me of the early Thrall and Blackmoore relationship. I get the feeling that as cool an antagonist as David Xanatos is, sometimes Metzen and company just wanted Goliath to strangle him. So they had Thrall do it. :D
Walter Simonson
Chris Metzen has repeatedly sung the praises of his artistic hero, whose The Mighty Thor run in the eighties was a major influence. Not content with writing a regular superhero book, Simonson smashed preconceived notions(and the logo) of the character. Every other issue was on the verge of the end of the world, racing at break neck speed and rarely letting up. The “Ragnarok and Roll!” epic laid the seeds for Warcraft 3: Reign of Chaos, and the following storyline had Thor fighting Hela and the legions of undead, culminating in the now classic last stand of Skurge the Executioner. While later issues may not have had the same impact, they were still among the best comics of the time.
Walt Simonson’s take on characters gave us Thor as the ultimate Warrior-Shaman and Balder the proto-Paladin combo, kicking ass and taking names. His rendition of Surtur certainly brings both Archimonde and Ragnaros to my mind, with Beta Ray Bill and Malekith as Dreanei Paladin-Shaman and Illidan Stormrage, respectively. No, they’re not complete ripoffs, but if you read Simonson’s The Mighty Thor trade paperbacks, you can see the genesis.
The Uncanny X-Men(Chris Claremont’s original run especially)
Becoming popular in the mid eighties, Chris Claremont intertwined the notions of prejudice and what it means to be human with epic superhero action. Despite saving the world countless times, as mutants the X-Men were always feared and hated. Particularly interesting is when Claremont tried writing a remorseful Magneto, who saw that all his actions had made things worse for mutant kind, not better, and tried making up for it***. Though it wouldn’t last, I can see how stories like these**** could have given ideas for the New Horde.
*** Some people disagree with this take, saying that Magneto was created to be a fascist rat bastard, and that if Claremont wanted a “Malcolm X” mutant leader, he should have created a new character. Having grown up on Claremont’s version, but later reading the old stories, I can see both points.
****The Blood Elves’ tale easily reminds me of The Dark Phoenix Saga; A powerful and noble people who like dressing in green and gold become defeated and corrupted by an evil force. Hungry for revenge and more power, these people start wearing crimson and gold, only to redeemed in the end through sacrifice. True, it wasn’t the Blood Elves’ sacrifice, but their story isn’t over by a longshot.
David Gemmell
Having only recently gotten around to reading the late British author’s work, I’m amazed at how many of his books remind me of Warcraft. David Gemmell wrote about flawed, yet undeniably noble heroes fighting against impossible odds, where often no one was safe. One similarity with Chris Metzen in particular, Gemmell liked older, seemingly past their prime heroes who actually earned their place, rather than destiny chosen farm boys. In several books I’ve noticed mirroring concepts and even names that Blizzard paid homage to.
SPOILERS IF YOU DON’T WANT TO KNOW
Legend(originally titled Against the Horde when it first hit the U.S.)- The first novel in the Drenai(!) series, Legend features the mighty Druss the Axe coming out of retirement at Dros Delnoch, the last major Drenai fortress standing against the invading, mongol Nadir. The action rings of the best Warcraft 2 missions, and several of the characters remind me of Blizzard ones:
Druss= Anduin Lothar(though not quite as noble, certainly as imposing)
Regnak= Danath Trollbane
Virae= a little of Alleria Windrunner
The Thirty= Paladins
Serbiter= a little of both Turalyon and Khadgar
Ulric Khan= Orgrim Doomhammer
The King Beyond the Gate- Much like WC3 subverted expectations, The Drenai were now ruled by a mad emperor, who used the stygian Dark Templars and Joinling beast men to terrorize his subjects. In the Drenai’s time of need, the only one who could save them was the half Nadir leader Tenaka Khan. Even though TKBtG had one major character take a complete 180 that seemed out of nowhere, I enjoyed the book. Oh, and about Metzen’s Blizzcon joke about Thrall marrying Garona? Tenaka, who could be viewed as one of many proto-Thralls, had a wife who was a part panther Joinling.
Waylander- In his quest for redemption, Waylander races against assassins, beast men, and the Dark Brotherhood***** to find the Armor of Bronze and save the Drenai from the invading Vagrians. For Waylander is also the Slayer, the traitor who killed the king. A prequel set in Drenan’s distant past, Waylander also features the origin of The Thirty.
*****Okay, a league of mystical assassins named The Dark Brotherhood sounds more like The Elder Scrolls than Warcraft, but I thought it was too cool to pass up.
Knights of Dark Renown- Once the noblest protectors in the land, the Knights of Gabala have returned from hell and begun a reign of tyranny. Now in order to restore the balance, the once cowardly knight Manannan must help a group of rogues, thieves and murders replace them, turning lost and evil men into good to combat the noble knights turned evil. In it’s own way, this novel provided me with some interesting observations on the nature of Paladins and Death Knights.
Ghost King and Last Sword of Power- A loose retelling of the Arthurian cycle, Last Sword of Power has a northern warlord with powers over the dead, and the heroes form an uneasy alliance with an undead witch queen against him.
The Jerusalem Man series: Wolf in Shadow, The Last Guardian, and Bloodstone- Himself suspiciously reminiscent of Stephen King’s Roland, Jon Shannow is a gun slinging wanderer in a post apocalyptic earth. In his adventures, Shannow fights gangs of thieves, soldiers, renegade psychics, mutants, animal men, time traveling conquerors and demons. Of particular note are the Hellborn, a warrior nation that have been made literally addicted to violence and blood. Though they have different contexts, I encountered the terms Dark Lady and Plaguelands in the Shannow stories.
Lion of Macedon and Dark Prince- With shades of both Arthas and Medivh, these books have an Alexander the Great who, possessed by a Chaos God from birth, desperately needs the book’s hero in fighting for his soul.
Once again, this isn’t to chastise Blizzard for unoriginality, but simply discover where they got their ideas, and how they changed them. There are many, many more influences out there, but this will do me for now. How about you?