where would you like to see the CoT take you?

[WootZoot]

Id love to go backa nd fight in the battle at Grim Batol.

the wars between Quel Thalas and Zul Aman.

help rebuild stormwind after the first war.

and witness firsthand the destruction of Dalaran.

[Ravenclaw2099]

The battle of Suramar (the Tomb of Sargeras), where the Twilight's Hammer and Stormreaver clans wwere utterly decimated. Take THAT Gul'dan!

let's see...the battle of Mount Hyjal is likely to be one, and I would also like to see the Orc's initial assualt on stormwind, even though they lost. And to witness Agwynn's "defeat" of Sargeras would be sweet.

that's all that comes to mind right now.

[Wulfang]

The War of the Ancients (really, it's the most important event in the history of Azeroth), the Battle of Icecrown and the War of the Spider. ;)

[Kenzuki]

The War of the Ancients (really, it's the most important event in the history of Azeroth), the Battle of Icecrown and the War of the Spider. ;)


I disagree. I think that the Opening of the Dark Portal is the most important event in the history of Azeroth.

[Wulfang]

In terms of Warcraft, the most important moment is indeed the Opening of the Dark Portal. But, taking into account the history of the entire planet, the most important events were, in order of importance:

1.- The Ordering
2.- The War of the Ancients
3.- The Opening of the Dark Portal ;)

[Bradford]

You guys hit the most of them. What would I like to see.....hmmmmm.......... ANYTHING with Sergaras! Id like to see him pre-Azeroth. Id like to see him fighting the Burning Legion in the Twisted Nether. Id like to see the Shaping of Azeroth from the hands of the Titans. Id like to see the battle with Deathwing, and see how he escapes. Id like to see the Titans lay the smack down on the Old Gods. Id like to see Blackhand fall to Doomhammer. Id like to see Archimode level Dalaran. Id like to see Arthas Kill his fater, then him sport the Armor of the Lich King. Fuck, Id like to see Ner'Zhul become encased in the block of Crystal Ice..... There are sooooo many things, I know I left something out. BTW whoever said that Deathwing is in Grim Batol is wrong........ the Red Dragons are there because there is another Old God in there like C'thun. Deathwing is on Dreanor!

[Kenzuki]

In terms of Warcraft, the most important moment is indeed the Opening of the Dark Portal. But, taking into account the history of the entire planet, the most important events were, in order of importance:

1.- The Ordering
2.- The War of the Ancients
3.- The Opening of the Dark Portal ;)

The Ordering and War of the Ancients were important, but they did not impact the Story of Warcraft in the scope that the Dark Portal did. Had Medivh never opened the Dark Portal and brought the orcs into Azeroth, none of the events of Warcraft I, II, or III would have happen. The world would be at peace, a few troll warbands here and there, nothing the humans or elves couldn't handle.

The opening of the Dark Portal STARTED Warcraft. That is why it is the most important even in the history of the series.

[Kenzuki]

You guys hit the most of them. What would I like to see.....hmmmmm.......... ANYTHING with Sergaras! Id like to see him pre-Azeroth. Id like to see him fighting the Burning Legion in the Twisted Nether. Id like to see the Shaping of Azeroth from the hands of the Titans. Id like to see the battle with Deathwing, and see how he escapes. Id like to see the Titans lay the smack down on the Old Gods. Id like to see Blackhand fall to Doomhammer. Id like to see Archimode level Dalaran. Id like to see Arthas Kill his fater, then him sport the Armor of the Lich King. Fuck, Id like to see Ner'Zhul become encased in the block of Crystal Ice..... There are sooooo many things, I know I left something out. BTW whoever said that Deathwing is in Grim Batol is wrong........ the Red Dragons are there because there is another Old God in there like C'thun. Deathwing is on Dreanor!


Bradford, that's wrong. Day of the Dragon took place AFTER the events of Beyond the Dark Portal, Deathwing is NOT on Draenor. There is not an Old god in Grim Batol.

[Bradford]

Bradford, that's wrong. Day of the Dragon took place AFTER the events of Beyond the Dark Portal, Deathwing is NOT on Draenor. There is not an Old god in Grim Batol.

I know according to the quest lines in the Wetlands there are artifacts that you find that point to an old God In Grim batol. Thats the most up to date source of Lore available. I though I remember there being a huge shadow that passed over the army that was fighting in: "Beyond the Dark Portal". I remember that :D BTW what makes your Theories better than mine? They are all just that for the moment.....If you have some link or can quote otherwise, please do. Im not sooo stubborn that im not open to other opinion.

[Kaziel]

I know according to the quest lines in the Wetlands there are artifacts that you find that point to an old God In Grim batol. Thats the most up to date source of Lore available. I though I remember there being a huge shadow that passed over the army that was fighting in: "Beyond the Dark Portal". I remember that :D BTW what makes your Theories better than mine? They are all just that for the moment.....If you have some link or can quote otherwise, please do. Im not sooo stubborn that im not open to other opinion.It's called retcons man. Blizzard does them all the fricken time to make old storylines line up with where they want the games to go. Yes, you are correct in saying that a huge shadow did pass over, and that Deathwing was in the game BtDP, but in the final timeline he was removed so that he could appear in Day of the Dragon which happened after the events of BtDP. As for DotD happening afterwards: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/timeline.html

And what questlines were these, that pointed to an Old God there. I've done, to my knowledge, every quest in that zone, and never seen anything like that.

[Kenzuki]

It's called retcons man. Blizzard does them all the fricken time to make old storylines line up with where they want the games to go. Yes, you are correct in saying that a huge shadow did pass over, and that Deathwing was in the game BtDP, but in the final timeline he was removed so that he could appear in Day of the Dragon which happened after the events of BtDP. As for DotD happening afterwards: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/timeline.html

And what questlines were these, that pointed to an Old God there. I've done, to my knowledge, every quest in that zone, and never seen anything like that.

I find it funny that some think Deathwing never went to Draenor, because according to Shadows & Light, Alleria fought Deathwing and survived. And where did Alleria, Khadgar, and Kurdran fight him? That's right, on Draenor.

We could get Xaran to ask Metzen if he did or not.

[Kaziel]

You bring up a good point that I had forgotten. Of course one option is first, before we ask Metzen, would be to ask Luke, since I think he was involved with the WCRPG at that point. If so he could clarify if that was someone just adding extra fluff for her blurb, or if it's actually canon and from the mouths of one of those on high.

I just find it odd that there was no mention of Deathwing in the BtDP portion of the WoW history I linked before... of course all the same, he wasn't mentioned at all in any portion of that history after his betrayal during the War of the Ancients, including his manipulations and defeat at the end of DotD...

[Kenzuki]

Aye Kaziel, aye. If you take him away from the Beyond the Dark Portal, you leave a large gap. He was allied to Ner'zhul and kept the dragons in the Horde under control etc.

[KardenTheHunter]

I know that in TBC, the CoT will allow you to travel to the past and allow you to see the Battle of Mt. Hyjal up close, The openeing of the Dark Portal and Thrall's escape. But wouldn't it be cool if random time loops replayed important moments in WC history above your head? For instance, right now when you enter the CoT you can see space and whatnot above you. Wouldn't be awesome if the ceiling just replayed important moments in time while you ran off inside the caves to do somthing? Say your goin off to do a Battle for Mt. Hyjal and just as you set off through the instance to reach your destination, you see this massive bronze figure above you with a flaming sword in hand battling what appears to be an inumerable amounts of demons! Or you see a Tower and three men, one stabbing another in the chest and the other watching. Or maybe you see two orcs walking through a ravine when suddenly their ambushed by a giant demon and try with all their might to combat it?

Now that'd never happen. But wouldn't it be awesome if it did? :kawaii: I have a dream of someday just randomly traveling through the badlands when suddenly the world gets dark and above my head is a huge flash of light and suddenly I just see these two massive beings dukeing it out above the world of Azeroth. :D Well....a man can dream can't he?

[Bradford]

And what questlines were these, that pointed to an Old God there. I've done, to my knowledge, every quest in that zone, and never seen anything like that.

The old Dwarf in the cave has you go collect the 4 artifacts from the digsite. Once he has them all he says something along the lines of "This is not good at all, it says something about Grim Batol and something about Old Gods, Ill have to look further into this...." Thats all I remember. I just have a feeling that they will open Grim batol and there will be an old God controlling the Red Dragons.....

[Kaziel]

The old Dwarf in the cave has you go collect the 4 artifacts from the digsite. Once he has them all he says something along the lines of "This is not good at all, it says something about Grim Batol and something about Old Gods, Ill have to look further into this...." Thats all I remember. I just have a feeling that they will open Grim batol and there will be an old God controlling the Red Dragons.....I'll have to go redo that quest, but I don't remember that bit... but I am only human. Will reply more later.

[Kaziel]

Okay, did the quest, and I can understand how you came to that conclusion based on what it says, but really it doesn't say that there is an Old God under Grim Batol. Here what the quest does say:

First the quest text:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Kaziel/WoW/NoOldGods1.jpg

Next the completion text:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v292/Kaziel/WoW/NoOldGods2.jpg

All it says is that Old Gods are buried under "the land" which really isn't nearly specific enough to come to any conclusion that isn't already common knowledge.

[Tagarline]

i dont think there will be an old god controlling the red dragons, i mean alexstrasza sure watches her back better now, and besides how could it control the dragons if its not there, i believe that when the well of eternity was gone the old gods lost their whispering ability to the mortal plane.
i can be horrendous wrong, so please correct me if so.
________
Cheap crosman airsoft feeder bottle green (http://airsoft-shop.info/p/crosman-airsoft-feeder-bottle-green/)

[Warlock]

You guys have the Deathwing thing wrong. He never went to Draenor.. at first. The "huge shadow" is NOT him.

This is the order of events:

-Bleeding Hollow escape through dark portal via cover of shadow
-Ner'zhul enters Dark Portal (from Draenor), seiges Citadel of Nethergarde
-Ner'zhul heads to Blackrock Spire where Deathwing is (read: Blackwing Lair), and enlists the aid of the Black Dragonflight (as they have no reds - Alexstrazsa had been freed, which is one of the reasons DotD makes no sense after this event)
-Ner'zhul collects his artifacts
-Alliance seiges Citadel of Nethergarde
-Ner'zhul quickly gathers his forces and escapes back through the Dark Portal. Warsong and Shattered Hand are left behind (Grom and Kargath). THIS is when Deathwing enters Draenor.
-Rest of the Alliance campaign happens now.

This timeline actually fits well and makes sense. And even unlike War 2: ToD, there are no "both sides win" holes (i.e. Horde destroying Lordaeron and slaying Terenas). Now when they said Day of the Dragon comes AFTER this, that's a hole. It specifically says in the game Alexstrazsa was freed at that point. I'm pretty sure Deathwing escaped back into Azeroth before the portal was destroyed given that he was meant to appear in Lord of the Clans (inside Blackrock Spire), but I don't know for sure. The fact that the game didn't come out means Blizzard could have changed their minds about that bit (especially with Day of the Dragon not even a concept at the time). But really, how hard would it have been? Morph into a footman and just walk through. If he's able to fool the entire Alliance (with very few exceptions - namely the Kirin Tor), he can certainly get by a garrison at the portal :P

As for the Old God part, yes, they are chained under the earth but where did you get Grim Batol from? There's one under the Lordaeron region, that's about it for EK.

[Bradford]

I look back now and I am not sure that I was correct with the Grim Batol/Old God conclusion. I also was not aware that Deathwing came BACK through the portal before it closed. Im not sure where I got the whole grim batol thing to begin with. I THOUGH there was another quest that pointed out more..........

[Kaziel]

There was another quest involving that guy (if you go to him, there's an item nearby him which was involved in this quest), but I can't seem to find any reference this quest on Alla... I'm thinking it was removed, maybe because what it talked about they changed their minds about. It's been a long time since I did that quest, so I don't really remember what it said, but I do remember that there was something about the Titans in it.

[Tagarline]

I look back now and I am not sure that I was correct with the Grim Batol/Old God conclusion. I also was not aware that Deathwing came BACK through the portal before it closed. Im not sure where I got the whole grim batol thing to begin with. I THOUGH there was another quest that pointed out more..........

well on certain Outland maps there is an area called ''deathwing's lair'' and they're pretty up to date (cant remember the link)
________
M F L B (http://www.vaporshop.com/mflb-vaporizer.html)

[Kenzuki]

well on certain Outland maps there is an area called ''deathwing's lair'' and they're pretty up to date (cant remember the link)

That's the Beyond the Dark Portal Expansion map. Deathwing HAD a lair on Draenor when he was there fighting for the Horde.

[Kaziel]

You guys have the Deathwing thing wrong. He never went to Draenor.. at first. The "huge shadow" is NOT him.

This is the order of events:

-Bleeding Hollow escape through dark portal via cover of shadow
-Ner'zhul enters Dark Portal (from Draenor), seiges Citadel of Nethergarde
-Ner'zhul heads to Blackrock Spire where Deathwing is (read: Blackwing Lair), and enlists the aid of the Black Dragonflight (as they have no reds - Alexstrazsa had been freed, which is one of the reasons DotD makes no sense after this event)
-Ner'zhul collects his artifacts
-Alliance seiges Citadel of Nethergarde
-Ner'zhul quickly gathers his forces and escapes back through the Dark Portal. Warsong and Shattered Hand are left behind (Grom and Kargath). THIS is when Deathwing enters Draenor.
-Rest of the Alliance campaign happens now.

This timeline actually fits well and makes sense. And even unlike War 2: ToD, there are no "both sides win" holes (i.e. Horde destroying Lordaeron and slaying Terenas). Now when they said Day of the Dragon comes AFTER this, that's a hole. It specifically says in the game Alexstrazsa was freed at that point. I'm pretty sure Deathwing escaped back into Azeroth before the portal was destroyed given that he was meant to appear in Lord of the Clans (inside Blackrock Spire), but I don't know for sure. The fact that the game didn't come out means Blizzard could have changed their minds about that bit (especially with Day of the Dragon not even a concept at the time). But really, how hard would it have been? Morph into a footman and just walk through. If he's able to fool the entire Alliance (with very few exceptions - namely the Kirin Tor), he can certainly get by a garrison at the portal :PThis is a quote from a conversation Kenzuki and I were having a few days ago.
While your suggestion (making DotD happen before BtDP) might fix one problem, it's really indicitive of a larger problem, and that's that there is a disconnect between the world they created at the end of WC2 (and WC2X) and the world they wanted to create in WC3 and beyond. And in order to get there they have had to do retcon after retcon after retcon, and even going as far as to do a time change (which, IMHO is the lamest method of altering the storyline for so many reasons).

Just something to think about. :)

[Kenzuki]

Well Shadows & Light says that Alleria Windrunner did indeed face Deathwing and live to tell the tale. So I'm inclinded to believe that the scenario where Khadgar, Alleria, and Kurdran face him on the Island did indeed happen. That's probably where he faked his death in the water as well.

[Vicious]

Well Shadows & Light says that Alleria Windrunner did indeed face Deathwing and live to tell the tale. So I'm inclinded to believe that the scenario where Khadgar, Alleria, and Kurdran face him on the Island did indeed happen. That's probably where he faked his death in the water as well.

Yeah, but according to DotD , the Kirin Tor also helped.

[Urin_Bloodface]

- the first battle of SW
- the siedge of Blackrock spire.
- the attack on the convoy in DotD
- the big battle in the war3 intro. ( should be more tiny battles like an instance with 40 bad vs 20 good guys and your 5 men turn the tide. In a tiny battle ).
- the battle of dalaran in the 2nd war.
- escorting uther and Cho'gall in the 2nd war.

[Kenzuki]

Yeah, but according to DotD , the Kirin Tor also helped.

Khadgar was a member of the Kirin Tor, of course he would have had some of their magi in his expedition.

[Warlock]

I just hope they use classic music samples. I.E. War 1 music for the opening of the Dark Portal, War 2 music for Old Hillsbrad, and War 3 music for the Battle of Mt. Hyjal :)

[Timolas]

The Scarlet Crusade attack on Icecrown Glacier... brought to light on one of the Scarlet Crusade hero statues in the armoury of SM.

[Creative]

If the Old Gods have corrupted the Red Dragonflight, I am gonna be mad. Mad I tell you!
I hate the Old Gods. They are so frikkin powerful and they can corrupt any race and ANYTHING. I hate the Old Gods. I bet they are gonna say that Sargeras got corrupted by the Old Gods aswell.

Also, the Caverns thing. I would love the see the portal opening, all orcs rushing out and everything. The siege of Stormwind would be cool aswell.

[Urin_Bloodface]

Orgrims attack on blackhand.
Orgrims attack on Guldans new base in SW

[Kerrah]

The War of the Ancients (really, it's the most important event in the history of Azeroth), the Battle of Icecrown and the War of the Spider. ;)
Would be simply awesome to see the full might of Nerub clash against the still untitled army of Ner'Zhul.

[ScytheRexx]

Just so everyone knows, I did the "missing" Wetlands quest back in the Beta, the one mentioned a page back that follows up on the one to collect the stones.

I forget exactly word for word everything that happened, but I will give you a rundown.

You go to the prospector, and he ends up giving you this ancient stone that he has no idea what its used for, he tells you to talk to the dwarf at the top of the inn in Menethil.

You take the stone to the dwarf and give it to him, he is interested by it. Then basically these events happen...

Dwarf: What a cool stone! I wonder what would happen if I did this...

("Poof" Holographic Image shoots out of the rock and a big figure appears on the floor)

Aman'Thul: Yes? Hello? What is this? You are not supposed to have that. I would recommend you don't ever activate that device agian.

Dwarf: Sweet Whisky!

Some more stuff happens, but I was really shocked at this point that I was watching Aman'Thul reprimand a drunk dwarf for using the Titan telephone service.

I have not been able to get the quest to work agian, so I guess it was removed before Beta had ended. Either way, it was cool.

As for the whole Deathwing debate, I don't really want to get into it, but all you need to know is this...

The Alexstrazsa being freed before BOTD was retconed.

Deathwing went to Draenor with some RED DRAGONS that grew a taste for human flesh, and began working for Ner'zhul. He was "killed" over the Devouring Sea by Khadgar and company (including others of the Kirin Tor, which Khadgar was a member), but in truth, faked his death and had the rumor of his fate spread into the world and reach the ears of the other aspects, so that they would no longer try and sense his presence (They hated him, I am sure they were always on guard for him to be around). He then used this new freedom to turn into a human, walk back into Azeroth, become Lord Prestor, and do the events of Day of the Dragon.

The last thing we know of Deathwing, is that he was "cursed" to re-live the pain that Alexstrazsa felt watching her children die, and thus I feel he is locked in Grim Batol, the location she was kept, to better drive home his "punishment". That is, if the Aspects captured him, but considering not even his living children know his locations, I would say he was captured.

[Kenzuki]

Brann Bronzebeard too thinks that maybe Deathwing is kept within Grim Batol. Also during the timeline of Lands of Conflict the Red and Green Flights were at the Sunwell Grove trying to restore the Sunwell, it was said that Alexstraza herself was at Grim Batol to personally oversee something. Brann Bronzebeard was told by a red dragon at Grim Batol that they were guarding "secrets no mortal was ment to see" or something to that effect.


Also Scyth that quest is still in the game, however, the Titan hologram is named Aman and not Aman'Thul. Maybe it's supposed to be Aman'Thul and they call him Aman for short, who knows. It starts in Darkshore I think.

[Kerrah]

Whatever happens, ill not stop believing that Deathwing is in Outland.

[ScytheRexx]

Also Scyth that quest is still in the game, however, the Titan hologram is named Aman and not Aman'Thul. Maybe it's supposed to be Aman'Thul and they call him Aman for short, who knows. It starts in Darkshore I think.

Oh right that silly prosepctor in Darkshore started it, gah I hated that quest, no wonder I have not seen it happen since because I refuse to do that quest.

Also I remember it being Aman'Thul in beta, maybe they decided to shorten it.

[ScytheRexx]

Whatever happens, ill not stop believing that Deathwing is in Outland.

Well if you suddenly go to Grim Batol and find him standing around, would you still believe that somehow he was still in Outland?

[Yuber8900]

Vael in LBRS says that no Red Dragon knows where Deathwing is, so unless Blizzard decides Vael's lying or too unimportent to the Red Flight I doubt Deathwing's in Grim Batol.

[Kerrah]

Well if you suddenly go to Grim Batol and find him standing around, would you still believe that somehow he was still in Outland?
If that happened, i'd belive some GM had too much Beer. At least as long as the place hasn't been opened.