The Lich King less powerful than Deathwing?

[DreamGod]

I have no idea what Blizzard is thinking about,Deathwing is just one of Dragon Aspects,The Lich King is a god of undead,I always think the scourge must be considered the largest force in the world,The Lich King is one of the biggest menace at least bigger than Deathwing,Deathwing and his armies Black dragon are strong enough to destory Azeroth?I doubt he isn't able to do that extremely.I don't understand why after Lich King dies we're going to kill a small character deathwing.:confused:

[Omacron]

The Lich King may be the lord of the undead, but Arthas is a pussy. We're killing Arthas, not the Lich King. Plus, Deathwing has had millenia to gain powers and it's implied he's been empowered by the remaining old gods.

[Kimera888]

Arthas is not a god. He is simply very powerful and heads a nearly unstoppable faction.

Illidan was something of the same, allegedly the main villain of the Burning Crusade, yet only a half-demon night elf.

Deathwing is far older, and powered by the Old Gods. He's also a lot smarter (and frankly crazier) than Arthas too. Arthas knows tactics and some magic. Deathwing can make twilight dragons. Advantage: Deathwing.

[Aldrius]

In a one on one fight Arthas/The Lich King would get beaten into submission and then torn to shreds by Deathwing.

But why would the Lich King ever get into a one on one fight with a dragon? There's a reason he likely has the largest army on the face of Azeroth.

The big thing Deathwing is doing here is he's tearing the world into pieces. The Scourge aren't really capable of that.

Deathwing is far older, and powered by the Old Gods. He's also a lot smarter (and frankly crazier) than Arthas too. Arthas knows tactics and some magic. Deathwing can make twilight dragons. Advantage: Deathwing.

In a one on one fight maybe. But Arthas also absorbed Ner'zhul intelligence and cunning or some crazy shit like that so he could potentially be more intelligent. We don't really have a very good marker for Deathwing's cunning.

[Kenzuki]

The Lich King may be the lord of the undead, but Arthas is a pussy. We're killing Arthas, not the Lich King. Plus, Deathwing has had millenia to gain powers and it's implied he's been empowered by the remaining old gods.

Arthas IS the Lich King. You need to clarify your statement to say "We're killing Arthas' body, not the actual spirit of the Lich King, which would include both the spirits of Arthas and Ner'zhul since they merged." You cannot seperate Arthas from the Lich King.

Arthas is not a pussy. The reason being, everyone he's fought against in a one on one fight he's kicked their ass (pardon my french). So if Arthas is a pussy than you logically have to conclude that Illidan, Uther, Kael, Mal'Ganis, Sylvanas, and Antonidas were even bigger pussies in comparasion to him.

Thirdly, if Khadgar managed to defeat Deathwing by magically unscrewing his armor, I don't see any reason why the much stronger Lich King could not conceivably come up with a similar manner in which to defeat the Black Leviathan.

Those are pretty much my thoughts. I'de also like to point out that just because an npc's level is greater does not mean that it is stronger. Shall we say that the common Defias Thug in Duskwood or the Bloodsail Pirate near Booty Bay is a far greater threat than Van Cleef himself simply because of level? I'de say not....

[DreamGod]

Poor malygos(as strong as Deathwing?),His brother will be the final boss of next expansion,he is just a t7 raid boss:(

Arthas is not a god. He is simply very powerful and heads a nearly unstoppable faction.

Illidan was something of the same, allegedly the main villain of the Burning Crusade, yet only a half-demon night elf.

Deathwing is far older, and powered by the Old Gods. He's also a lot smarter (and frankly crazier) than Arthas too. Arthas knows tactics and some magic. Deathwing can make twilight dragons. Advantage: Deathwing.

Deathwing was powered by titans, Demonsoul powered by Old Gods,but It was destoryed ...

[Corse]

Shall we say that the common Defias Thug in Duskwood or the Bloodsail Pirate near Booty Bay is a far greater threat than Van Cleef himself simply because of level? I'de say not....

It is pretty relative as regards bosses, though, and their compatriots. Deathwing isn't merely an early 5-man boss for the new expansion (who we could assume lore-wise are lesser things than Arthas), he's the next endgame, focus-of-expansion boss.

Likewise with your comparison, Van Cleef is the boss who is the linchpin of a whole zone and has a quest arc to kill, the Bloodsail mobs are just a couple of regular joes.

So, just as Van Cleef < Onyxia, and Illidan < Arthas; Arthas < Deathwing.


So if Arthas is a pussy than you logically have to conclude that Illidan, Uther, Kael, Mal'Ganis, Sylvanas, and Antonidas were even bigger pussies in comparasion to him.

Side point: C'mon, Kaelly boy is a bit of wuss. Also yes, since Arthas roflstomped Illidan we got Outland before Northrend. Had Illidan bitch-slapped our death knight friend it'd be the other way around.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

Deathwing was powered by titans, Demonsoul powered by Old Gods,but It was destoryed ...

But he still got a power-up from it. When he was fighting Korial (lewl) in the WotA, he used it to buff himself and basically his inner power grew so much that his skin exploded. His solution was to graft unbreakable adamantium plates onto his flesh to hold himself together. He’s a pretty badass dragon by any standard.


It is pretty relative as regards bosses, though, and their compatriots. Deathwing isn't merely an early 5-man boss for the new expansion (who we could assume lore-wise are lesser things than Arthas), he's the next endgame, focus-of-expansion boss.

Likewise with your comparison, Van Cleef is the boss who is the linchpin of a whole zone and has a quest arc to kill, the Bloodsail mobs are just a couple of regular joes.

So, just as Van Cleef < Onyxia, and Illidan < Arthas; Arthas < Deathwing.

Really I think your analogy fails. At what level or expansion we encounter a boss is really no lore indication of their power. We battled Kil’jaeden himself at the end of TBC, and since he was the one who empowered the Lich King its logical to assume he is the more powerful of the two. He’s also probably more powerful than Deathwing. Deathwing is simply the next big bad of the story.

[Omacron]

Arthas IS the Lich King. You need to clarify your statement to say "We're killing Arthas' body, not the actual spirit of the Lich King, which would include both the spirits of Arthas and Ner'zhul since they merged." You cannot seperate Arthas from the Lich King.

Arthas is not a pussy. The reason being, everyone he's fought against in a one on one fight he's kicked their ass (pardon my french). So if Arthas is a pussy than you logically have to conclude that Illidan, Uther, Kael, Mal'Ganis, Sylvanas, and Antonidas were even bigger pussies in comparasion to him.

Arthas is the Lich King, and he's in total control of the scourge. Arthas, not Ner'Zhul, not a fusion of the two, just Arthas. And Arthas has lost tactical battle after tactical battle against the numerically inferior horde, alliance, argent crusade and ebon blade throughout all of WotLK. Arthas has always been a glory hog, always wanting people to pay attention to him, he's not powerful, he's a showboater.

[Kenzuki]

Arthas is the Lich King, and he's in total control of the scourge. Arthas, not Ner'Zhul, not a fusion of the two, just Arthas. And Arthas has lost tactical battle after tactical battle against the numerically inferior horde, alliance, argent crusade and ebon blade throughout all of WotLK. Arthas has always been a glory hog, always wanting people to pay attention to him, he's not powerful, he's a showboater.

Care to prove that he isn't a fusion of the two considering he's refered as such in the game and in several sources? He says he was once a shaman, etc. Like maybe producing a disembodied soul of Ner'zhul flying around scaring people perhaps?

The only reason Arthas is sucking so badly is because Blizzard ruined his character by making him into a cheap Sauron clone....

[Exxile87]

Care to prove that he isn't a fusion of the two considering he's refered as such in the game and in several sources? He says he was once a shaman, etc. Like maybe producing a disembodied soul of Ner'zhul flying around scaring people perhaps?

The only reason Arthas is sucking so badly is because Blizzard ruined his character by making him into a cheap Sauron clone....

Pretty much this. I find myself wanting to kill not because it will save the world, but because I'm sick of his empty threats.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

Its just Arthas in control. Arthas is the Lich King now. The most recent stuff references this, including the end of “Arthas“ and the manga. He claimed everything he needed from Ner’zhul, now the power is his and his alone. If Ner’zhul is still somehow within him, he is totally impotent and non-present.

[Vicious]

If Ner’zhul is still somehow within him, he is totally impotent and non-present.


After we kill Arthas in the end of WotLK, this will probably change.

For the better, may i add.

[Omacron]

After we kill Arthas in the end of WotLK, this will probably change.

For the better, may i add.

I've been saying this since before WotLK was even officially announced.

[ShinMaruku]

I always like Deathwing to a higher level of villain than Arthas.
He's always more bold than everybody.
He was not afraid iof the old gods or Sargeras.

[Yuber8900]

Really I think your analogy fails. At what level or expansion we encounter a boss is really no lore indication of their power. We battled Kil’jaeden himself at the end of TBC, and since he was the one who empowered the Lich King its logical to assume he is the more powerful of the two. He’s also probably more powerful than Deathwing. Deathwing is simply the next big bad of the story.

But he was only at HALF POWAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stormcrusher]

I still believe people strongly over estimate the Lich King. Read the Arthas book at his fight with Kael'thas and Illidan, he really was fighting them with almost the same PHYSICAL power he has now. Ner'zhul pumped every ounce of raw power he could spare without dying himself into Arthas for those fights and he only barely came out alive. When he absorbed Ner'zhul he didn't become more powerful physical, but his magical skills went up. He gained the psychic domination of the undead and spiritual powers of Nerzhul. Is he strong compared your mortals of warcraft, but compared to Deathwing he's not much. People also seem to think the Lich King is stronger than Kil'Jaeden, I don't know why people would even think that Kil'jaeden actually trusted Illidan someone far weaker than himself to destroy the Lich King. Its not that Kil'jaeden is weaker its that he can't freaking get into Azeroth to do it himself. Why do you think the Lich King had a large scourge attack on the Sunwell when Kil'Jaeden was trying to get here.

Deathwing would probably smash Arthas to a pulp if they fought one on one. Deathwing is probably the most powerful spellcaster in Azeroth. Him and Malygos were best friends before WotA. He was close to his equal in magic then, and has been practicing a lot while Malygos was sulking away in his lair for 10,000 years. Even Krasus, who is probably the second most powerful spellcaster on Azeroth, whose magical abilities rival even Alexstrasz(note I said magical, so not raw physical or red dragon powers) deems Deathwing would pretty much completely crush him in a raw magic fight. He also has a high raw physical power too. In the Beyond the Dark Portal book, he fights Gruul, an army of Ogres, along with Turalyon and Khadgar and an alliance army. Although Gruul doesn't give up, Deathwing throws him around like a rag doll. Deathwing was basicly laughing off every attack Gruul was throwing at him. Khagar couldn't use any of his real attack spells during the time he was fighting Gruul because Deathwing was sensing them immediately and countering them before he could even get them off. Only by sneaking up as close as he could without magic and using a small low level skill you learn in your first year training in Dalaran was he able to loosen up a scale or 2 and cause Deathwing to run off to reattach them, as the raw power leaking from him was too sporadic. When you consider his cunning and treachery, Deathwing is probably on par or close to Kil'Jaeden the Deciever himself. He has masterminded many plans over history wiping out entire civilizations and who knows what else. I didn't even get into his Earthwarder powers to basicly control the world.

If anyone is a god, its Deathwing not Arthas.

[Drz]

I still believe people strongly over estimate the Lich King. Read the Arthas book at his fight with Kael'thas and Illidan, he really was fighting them with almost the same PHYSICAL power he has now. Ner'zhul pumped every ounce of raw power he could spare without dying himself into Arthas for those fights and he only barely came out alive.

Indeed. This is why Arthas' heart got damaged so much, he just decided to get rid of it.

[Lon-ami]

If the original point of this topic is that Deathwing is a boss of a higher level cap:

Crap.

The level of the enemy doesn't matter, or do you really believe Anub'arak is more powerful than Kil'jaeden, just because for its level?

Nothing has pointed out Deathwing is more powerful than Arthas, and the meaning of the word "powerful" should remember things like Gruul and Khadgar owning Deathwing literally.

[engal]

After we kill Arthas in the end of WotLK, this will probably change.

For the better, may i add.

I can see it, Arthas dying on the ground, then his body move again and Nerzhul say something like " Thank you, I gathered back all the thing he stole me, and now, fear the real wrath of the true Lich King ! "

And then, a portal open behind him, Malganis appears and say " Well, WE created you, you belong to us, now, you won't have a choice and you'll pay for you betrayal"

And then Malganis magically bind him and grab him into the portal who close behind, leaving the Alliance and the Horde in a " WTF???" attitude xD

[Revenant]

The Lich King just conquers stuff and messes with peoples' heads. Deathwing blows up parts of planets. If Deathwing died, the Lich King may be able to raise him into undeath and own him. Though, is Deathwing even organic anymore, or just magma, metal and energy? If so, the plague/necromancy may not work on him.

[Corse]

Really I think your analogy fails. At what level or expansion we encounter a boss is really no lore indication of their power. We battled Kil’jaeden himself at the end of TBC, and since he was the one who empowered the Lich King its logical to assume he is the more powerful of the two.

Ah, but we battled a Kil'jaeden who hadn't fully come through the portal. So, Kil'jaeden stuck in a vice < Lich King < Deathwing < Kil'Jaeden in his full glory?

[Stormcrusher]

Nothing has pointed out Deathwing is more powerful than Arthas, and the meaning of the word "powerful" should remember things like Gruul and Khadgar owning Deathwing literally.

But they didn't own Deathwing. Deathwing was completely fucking them up, the humans couldn't even get an attack to him and he was picking on Gruul like he was a high schooler picking on a 2nd grader. They only survived because Khadgar stopped using his magic that he couldn't even get off against him anyways and snuck up right under him and used a very weak spell under Deathwing radar to cause some scales to unhinge, causing Deathwing to flee to keep from exploding and destroying everything including his eggs.

[Farsider]

Nothing has pointed out Deathwing is more powerful than Arthas

And at the same time, nothing has pointed to Arthas and/or the Lich King being more powerful than Deathwing. We do have numerous examples of Deathwing absolutely thrashing extremely powerful beings with little to no efforts (Gruul, Korialstrasz, armies of demons, his wife...) and the only real fight that he's ever lost was when he was alone and outnumbered 4-1 by the other aspects.

Arthas the Lich King, on the other hand, has been shown to have actually had some trouble against regular, normal mortals in a fair fight.

Don't go whining and pulling up lame and irrelevant arguments about his 'psychic powah' or whose logistics network is better or is cleverer or knows more about shaman rituals or whose got a bigger army or more followers or a bigger cock. Think about who would win if you get them together 1 on 1. Arthas can unscrew all the armor plates off Deathwing that he wants, but it's not going to change the outcome.

[Vicious]

I've been saying this since before WotLK was even officially announced.

Don´t remember, although i may be subconsciously blocking it to make it MY theory and my theory alone.

You could either join the club or we could have a e-***** contest to see whoever came with it first ala Rob.

But yeah, whatever. I want Ner´zhul back and out of focus of WoW expansions.

[Stormcrusher]

And at the same time, nothing has pointed to Arthas and/or the Lich King being more powerful than Deathwing. We do have numerous examples of Deathwing absolutely thrashing extremely powerful beings with little to no efforts (Gruul, Korialstrasz, armies of demons, his wife...) and the only real fight that he's ever lost was when he was alone and outnumbered 4-1 by the other aspects.

Arthas the Lich King, on the other hand, has been shown to have actually had some trouble against regular, normal mortals in a fair fight.

Don't go whining and pulling up lame and irrelevant arguments about his 'psychic powah' or whose logistics network is better or is cleverer or knows more about shaman rituals or whose got a bigger army or more followers or a bigger cock. Think about who would win if you get them together 1 on 1. Arthas can unscrew all the armor plates off Deathwing that he wants, but it's not going to change the outcome.

/nuff said

[Oplu]

In a one on one fight maybe. But Arthas also absorbed Ner'zhul intelligence and cunning or some crazy shit like that so he could potentially be more intelligent. We don't really have a very good marker for Deathwing's cunning.

Ner'zhul is very old, Ner'zhul needed the shadow council to do anything close to what deathwing is going to do, deathwing was first empowered by the titans to protect azeroth, then driven mad and had his power increased by the old gods, he is also something like 15000 years old on top of that.

i'd say that Deathwing has an even fight, if not the upper hand even against the scourge as well as the lichking.

[Kenzuki]

The Lich King can see into the future, Deathwing cannot. This gives him an advantage.

[Drz]

The Lich King can see into the future, Deathwing cannot. This gives him an advantage.

Unleash Deathwing decides to go all fucknuts and blows up everything, this makes him so unexcepted that Arthas will have a hard time to see how to respond, it worked very well for Wolverine atleast when he fought this guy who saw into the future. :)

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

Unleash Deathwing decides to go all fucknuts and blows up everything, this makes him so unexcepted that Arthas will have a hard time to see how to respond, it worked very well for Wolverine atleast when he fought this guy who saw into the future. :)

Not even Mister X can predict the fucknuts approach. Though I think that he didn’t see the future so much as read his enemies minds to know what they were going to do in advance, and wolverine going berserk essentially turned off his conscious mind. Unless you’re talking about another villain.


Anyway, someone bust out the RPG stats! YEAH! That will solve this debate.

[Drz]

I have no idea what villain i'm talking about sorry. :( It was a man with sun glasses and Wolverine defeated him by remembering all the pain that had gone thru his life, such as the death of his japan wife and stuff.

EDIT: To make myself clear, him remembering all the shit he had gone thru made him so enraged and fast, he became unpredictable.

[Wabbajack]

Anyway, someone bust out the RPG stats! YEAH! That will solve this debate.

According to the Warcraft-RPG (not WoWRPG) Neltharion would utterly defeat the Lichking.

For example: The Lichking has 504 HP, Neltharion 1760 HP^^
And Nelth's attack and armor bonus are way higher than Lichie's.

The Lichking has a lot of minion making spells, but Neltharion can rise a volcano^^

[Kenzuki]

According to the Warcraft-RPG (not WoWRPG) Neltharion would utterly defeat the Lichking.

For example: The Lichking has 504 HP, Neltharion 1760 HP^^
And Nelth's attack and armor bonus are way higher than Lichie's.

The Lichking has a lot of minion making spells, but Neltharion can rise a volcano^^

The Lich King is missing several of his abilities that he would have from his class levels, and he's missing the Eternal Template which the developers said they would have given him had it been out at the time.

Figuring all that into the equation, it's closer than you'de think :P

And btw, if Khadgar can get the upper hand on ol' Neltharion, I'm sure the Lich King could as well given the opportunity.

[Vicious]

And btw, if Khadgar can get the upper hand on ol' Neltharion, I'm sure the Lich King could as well given the opportunity.

That "fight" was complete bullshit, it made Neltharion´s armor a cumbersome convenience rather than giving him the edge as far as protection and resistance to magic attack goes.

It´s as if the armor is the equivalent of duct tape and if you pull it off, you fuck him up royally and boom, instant win. While the concept is kinda cool as far as irony goes, the idea that Deathwing never once thought about this when his body is fucking exploding 24/7 seems retarded to me.

[Mark_Romaneck]

the idea that Deathwing never once thought about this when his body is fucking exploding 24/7 seems retarded to me.

Hes a warcraft villian Vicious... they are not very bright these days

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

I think that is one of Deathwing’s more prominent, and perhaps only, major weaknesses. His body can’t contain the explosions going on inside, so he needs the adamantium armor to contain himself. Fuck with the armor, and you could fuck him up.

What can he really do to avoid this? I mean he can re-enforce the armor as much as possible, but still it would probably be a vulnerability if enemies were going after it specifically.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I hope we can decapitate Deathwing and stick his head on our capital city walls or something. Lorewise Stormwind already has 1 Black Dragon head :P but we'd really like the whole Deathwing family set.

[Drz]

I hope we can decapitate Deathwing and stick his head on our capital city walls or something. Lorewise Stormwind already has 1 Black Dragon head :P but we'd really like the whole Deathwing family set.

Thrall the über shaman will wear Nefarian's and Onyxia's heads as shoulderpads, and Deathwing's skull as his helm!

[Kenzuki]

I can see this happening. Stick Neltharion's head on a post that is.

[tufy]

Lorewise Stormwind already has 1 Black Dragon head :P but we'd really like the whole Deathwing family set.

I wonder what the set bonus is...

[Bradford]

Time to chime back in. In my opinion, if they were to face off, it would not be a simple 1v1 fight. Why would it be? Why would they not utilize all of their abilities as combatants? If I were to go to war with an enemy, I would not use a sword if I owned a gun, so look at it that way. The Lich king commands Legions of undead. Given, the Black Dragon flight would come to the aid of their aspect, but as soon as one of them parished they could simply be risen to aid the Scourge. Deathwing would be better off going into that battle alone. However, Arthas would not. He could simply swarm the Dragon with endless Ghouls (etc.) and come in for the killing blow. I doubt that Deathwings armor could withstand a blow from Frostmourne. I think the outcome would be clear. The Lich king would come out the victor.....


BTW, HAI!!!!!

[Drz]

Yeah those undead ghouls will surely cause trouble to Deathwing, who can fly above. :)

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

Arthas does have huge numbers of ranged, magical, and aerial minions at his disposal that could reach him. Though, yeah, Ghouls are pretty useless unless they can get him to the ground.

[Bradford]

Yeah those undead ghouls will surely cause trouble to Deathwing, who can fly above. :)

I said ghouls and etc. We all KNOW hes not limited to just ghouls. You got my point.....

[Omacron]

I said ghouls and etc. We all KNOW hes not limited to just ghouls. You got my point.....

Deathwing can cause earthquakes and volcanoes to pop up, not to mention he has cone AOE breath. Arthas' armies would be wrecked by him.

[Farsider]

Time to chime back in. In my opinion, if they were to face off, it would not be a simple 1v1 fight. Why would it be? Why would they not utilize all of their abilities as combatants? If I were to go to war with an enemy, I would not use a sword if I owned a gun, so look at it that way. The Lich king commands Legions of undead. Given, the Black Dragon flight would come to the aid of their aspect, but as soon as one of them parished they could simply be risen to aid the Scourge. Deathwing would be better off going into that battle alone. However, Arthas would not. He could simply swarm the Dragon with endless Ghouls (etc.) and come in for the killing blow. I doubt that Deathwings armor could withstand a blow from Frostmourne. I think the outcome would be clear. The Lich king would come out the victor.....


Well, they wouldn't face off ever, so in this hypothetical situation set up by this thread, it's a 1 vs 1 fight.

Either way. So, the LK lands a blow with Frostmourne. Even if it does (somehow) manage to break through Deathwing's armor, then so what? Now there's a cut in it. It's not the first time that he's had holes and gashes knocked into it. There have been times when whole plates have been knocked loose or knocked off (and Khadgar didn't even get that far). On that subject, Khadgar's screw trick involved him sneaking up and landing a sucker punch while Deathwing was distracted. If he had been paying attention, Khadgar noted, it wouldn't have worked. How exactly is the LK going to sneak up and get in his blow?

Say he does, in some bizarre twist of nonsense, get his unscrew-armor spell off. Now what? It's not like Deathwing would be bringing in his most valuable possessions with him to fight the LK. During the Gruul/Khadgar fight, loosening the plates was more a danger to his eggs than himself, and they needed to be protected more than anything. Even if a plate or two gets knocked off by the LK, there's an explosion and some pain, and Deathwing keeps on fighting. So how is it going to change the outcome of the fight?

So, now what's the LK got left in his arsenal? A few standard spells out of the RPG books? How much good is that going to do? The only surprise would be if any of them actually hurts or bothers DW. Maybe if Deathwing lays down and lets the LK go at him for an hour or two, that might turn the fight, but why would he do that?

Time for a ghoul rush? So DW melts the glacier or turns the earth inside out, and they're done. But, but, but, he's got all the abominations and nerubians and vrykul and san'layn, too! Right, because that's going to make all the difference in the world when Icecrown melts and boils and turns to lava. Too cheap an out? Alright, so DW picks up the LK and flies away to finish somewhere else. Arthas has his drakes and gargoyles chase after them? A lot of good that's going to do, since DW can outrun and outfly them, and anyone else, for that matter.

Oh! Oh! But since the Lich King has all the experiences of Ner'zhul, that somehow automatically makes him smarter, right?!? He can just outthink the 140,000-year-old, titan-made, OG-enhanced supernatural being. I'd bet you anything that Steven Hawking is smarter than Kimbo Slice, but that doesn't mean that he's going to last two minutes if they get into a fight.

[Stormcaller]

Hi everyone, first post. Been lurking for a while here too.

About Deathwing and Arthas (I say Arthas in light of Ner'Zhul's banishment) I think in a 1v1 scenario Arthas would be the equivalent of a metal splinter in Deathwings paw. A splinter that will then be crushed into necromatic paste.

While Arthas is immesely powerful he's not quite an old god. While neither is Deathwing, Deathwing has been feeding off the same power that has been empowering the old gods and the elementals recently, so not only taking account his position as the strongest of the aspects. (I assume atleast, Alexstrasza is possibly more powerful but she has problems with killing things) Added with the energy from a source strong enough to break the Titans containment measures that he has alot more power then Arthas.

In a scenario involving all the forces they have available to them then I still have to go with Deathwing, the Scourge have the numbers and can raise the fallen of the other forces to bolster their own numbers but it takes time to resurrect a dragon (Seen in Sindragosa's Fall) even when Arthas raises the being himself he still uses up a fair amount of energy doing so.

In a battle between the the Prince of Darkness and the World-Breaker, my money is on the guy who just blew the entire place up.

[Rolandius]

The Lich King can see into the future, Deathwing cannot. This gives him an advantage.

Why didn't the Ner'zhul part of the Lich King not see what was going to happen to him if he can see into the future?

I think that is one of Deathwing’s more prominent, and perhaps only, major weaknesses. His body can’t contain the explosions going on inside, so he needs the adamantium armor to contain himself. Fuck with the armor, and you could fuck him up.

What can he really do to avoid this? I mean he can re-enforce the armor as much as possible, but still it would probably be a vulnerability if enemies were going after it specifically.

Do they explain why all the explosions going on inside don't seem to affect his heart, lungs, etc?

[Kenzuki]

No one said that he can see all of the future all of the time. He does get certain glipses of it, however, and uses them to their full advantage. Which is why he came out on top after The Frozen Throne.

[Rolandius]

No one said that he can see all of the future all of the time. He does get certain glipses of it, however, and uses them to their full advantage. Which is why he came out on top after The Frozen Throne.

Okay. So he is able to see glimpses of the future. I wonder if he can control what he can see or do they just come to him? So I guess he didn't see the part of the future where the Arthas part of him took over.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

I think a lot of people are severely over-estimating Deathwing and making him see like the most uber guy ever. He’s been defeated before on numerous occassions. I mean, he didn’t just drop a volcano on Khadgar and his crew. He’s never shown the ability to destroy an entire continent as was ludicrously postulated when “he’d just destroy Northrend”. How he goes about causing the Cataclysm is still somewhat nebulous, but it seems as if he did so by doing something very specific with the entrance between Azeroth and the Elemental Plane. It wasn’t his own power that just willed all of Azeroth into pieces.

One Aspect has already been dropped by players, and without the Demon Soul Deathwing isn’t SO much more powerful than Malygos.

Do they explain why all the explosions going on inside don't seem to affect his heart, lungs, etc?

Of course not. But they do say that fire and molten lava ooze out uncontrollable and painfully, and that he needs the plates to basically contain his inner-power. It seems inferred that without the plates, he literally couldn’t contain himself and would tear himself apart and die. The Goblin in charge of creating his armor said that if his condition continued to escalate Deathwing would be a pile of burnt bones. His body also destroyed several attempts at armor before they finally got the blend of science and magic right.

The armor is a 2 for 1. Great defense and it keeps him from tearing apart.

[Stormcrusher]

Do they explain why all the explosions going on inside don't seem to affect his heart, lungs, etc?

The guy can live in lava if he wants, the volcanic explosions that are going on inside him are nothing, all black dragons already can breath lava. In fact, most of the books mention them spitting lava at their enemies, not fire.

Lets not forget how much of a beast Deathwing is too, look at the beating he took going head to head with Sargeras too during the War of the Ancient trying to get the Demon Soul back. Sargeras was firing a sustained power blast at full power at Deathwing(think DBZ style kamehameha) that Alexstraxz, Ysera, Krasus and the others claimed would destroy anything in its path. Yet, Deathwing flies directly into it and fights against it for what seemed like almost an eternity to those that were watching actually managing to reach the demon soul before getting blasted away. I highly doubt any other being on Azeroth could have last a second or 2 against that blast let alone several minutes like Deathwing. The guy is insane and almost unstoppable. Honestly I don't even know if Arthas has the power to even hurt him.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

The guy can live in lava if he wants, the volcanic explosions that are going on inside him are nothing, all black dragons already can breath lava. In fact, most of the books mention them spitting lava at their enemies, not fire.

They’re not nothing. They’re on a much greater scale than is common for Black Dragons. They’re extremely painful and tearing apart his body. The Adamantium plates are not just armor, they are sutures that hold him together.

[Farsider]

I think a lot of people are severely over-estimating Deathwing and making him see like the most uber guy ever. He’s been defeated before on numerous occassions.

He's been defeated once, and extenuating circumstances made him decide to retreat one other time when victory would not be worth the cost.

And it seems like a lot of people are severely over-estimating the Lich King and making him seem like the most uber guy ever. He's been really, truly, personally defeated on numerous occasions, and has never been shown to have any particularly unique martial skills beyond occasionally one-shotting a regular mortal. His strengths have always lain in his followers. Deathwing's never needed the hordes of servitors to do his dirty work, he's sufficient on his own in that department.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

He's been defeated once, and extenuating circumstances made him decide to retreat one other time when victory would not be worth the cost.

And it seems like a lot of people are severely over-estimating the Lich King and making him seem like the most uber guy ever. He's been really, truly, personally defeated on numerous occasions, and has never been shown to have any particularly unique martial skills beyond occasionally one-shotting a regular mortal. His strengths have always lain in his followers. Deathwing's never needed the hordes of servitors to do his dirty work, he's sufficient on his own in that department.

So Khadgar exploiting his weaknesses and forcing him to retreat is an “extenuating circumstance”? Why do you not extend that same consideration to the Lich King? He was forced to retreat at LHC and the Wrathgate because of “extenuating circumstances”. Both of the situations merit that definition more than an enemy simply finding a way to get through your defenses. Give Khadgar credit where credit is due. Also other than those situations, unless I’m forgetting, the Lich King himself hasn’t personally been defeated. The defeats of his minions can’t really be attributed to him without applying the same standard to Deathwing.

We also saw Deathwing supposedly defeated by Kirin Tor mages who dropped him into the ocean and thought he was dead, mentioned as occurring before DotD. He obviously didn’t die but that certainly wasn’t he crowning achievement. Half-powered Korial was rocking him in melee combat in “The Demon Soul” before Deathwing could finally get full use of the Demon Soul to stop him (incidentally that’s the fight where he first began to split open from the power he needed to take from the DS). The other Aspects chased him off and presumably kicked his ass at the end of DotD because we didn’t see him after. And of course he lost to Khadgar and Co. in BtDP. He really has ultimately lost every time he’s shown up.

I’m not saying that the Lich King would beat him 1 on 1 as that kind of argument is usually pointless and arbitrary. However, I am saying that some posters here have really conflated his powers beyond reality. I mean “He’d just destroy Northrend”. Really? Though yes, you are right that the Lich King’s powers have also been conflated by the opposite side, such as “He sees the future, he can’t lose!”

[Farsider]

So Khadgar exploiting his weaknesses and forcing him to retreat is an “extenuating circumstance”?

The need to protect his eggs from the multitude of ogres, and, if he had remained, from his own instability being aggravated by Khadgar, was the extenuating circumstance I referred to.

[Nee]

I think the overall fight would be less physical, and more of a mental battle. The Lich King has always seemed to posses pretty powerful telepathic powers. Deathwing also seems to have very similar strength with the mind. Them duking it all out would definitely be a much more epic battle to see, but if one is stronger then the other with the mind then they could make the flow of battle go in their direction dramatically.

It would also be interesting to see if Neltharion's realm even reaches to Northrend at all now. Northrend is the main hub for the Scourge. So if the fight took place in Northrend I don't think Deathwing could really raise a volcano or anything with very much ease there.

My personal opinion is if it's the present day Lich King with just Arthas. Deathwing would come out the victor, but it would probably be still a pretty tough fight. But if it was the combo of Ne'rzhul and Arthas I could see The Lich King coming out with a win or at least a draw. Ner'zhul and Deathwing are both pretty cunning characters so it would be interesting to see.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

The need to protect his eggs from the multitude of ogres, and, if he had remained, from his own instability being aggravated by Khadgar, was the extenuating circumstance I referred to.

I’m aware of what you were referring to, and I don’t buy it being labeled “extenuating circumstances”, as I already stated. The passage says nothing about Deathwing fleeing to protect his eggs. In fact, after Deathwing fled to save himself the Gronn were only bolstered and started killing the shit out of all the Dragons Deathwing left behind. Deathwing even says himself, “You may have won this battle, I give you that.” He straight-up lost the battle because of what Khadgar did and was forced to retreat.

[Deemo]

Deathwing is a peculiar enemy when it comes to the world as a whole. Most of the more famous ones tend to just think of mass destruction by building an army worthy of Mordor and saying "fuck you, world, bring it", subsiquently bringing their own downfall. It's a common flaw amongst villians.

Deathwing is, and has been in the past, more subtle in his interactions with others after going stark crazy with power. The amount of planning and time-spanning that his guise as Lord Daval Prestor sort of gives credit to that. He passively tried turning the humans against each other while the throne of Arathor was up for grabs, and would have succeeded too, if he had not been under the suspicions of the Kirin Tor (and was subsiquently investigated by a dragon (I -really- want to say Krasus, but can't be sure until I get back to my hut)). After which, he retreated away from the area, and worked his magics elsewhere.

A smart tactician is one who views and measures key and critical fonts of information before making a decision of such magnitude that it commits him to one avenue of action or another (retreat or something-something-ARCANE BARRAGE). While most dragons are seen as exceedingly arrogant in their power (and he certainly is powerful), he at least recognizes the fact that A) he has weaknesses, and thus limits, B) from past experiences, there were better, more meaningful battles to be fought to attain his wishes, and C) he had a defensive foothold in place before saying "word bitches" and kool-aid man'd himself out from under the earth. Unlike...Arthas, who planted his squishy ass on an icecube for a nap, before waking up and wanting to /wrist. Arthas let armies camp on his doorstep; Arthas let settlers infringe on Northrend. Why would any self-respecting Evil Overlord of the world allow this to happen? Personally, it invites self-destruction.

[Rolandius]

A smart tactician is one who views and measures key and critical fonts of information before making a decision of such magnitude that it commits him to one avenue of action or another (retreat or something-something-ARCANE BARRAGE). While most dragons are seen as exceedingly arrogant in their power (and he certainly is powerful), he at least recognizes the fact that A) he has weaknesses, and thus limits, B) from past experiences, there were better, more meaningful battles to be fought to attain his wishes, and C) he had a defensive foothold in place before saying "word bitches" and kool-aid man'd himself out from under the earth. Unlike...Arthas, who planted his squishy ass on an icecube for a nap, before waking up and wanting to /wrist. Arthas let armies camp on his doorstep; Arthas let settlers infringe on Northrend. Why would any self-respecting Evil Overlord of the world allow this to happen? Personally, it invites self-destruction.

Well Arthas did try to — I guess he thought he was ready — invade the Alliance and Horde lands with the plague again and so forth, but they cured it and told him "Oh no you didn't" and he had to go back to Northrend.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

Arthas let armies camp on his doorstep; Arthas let settlers infringe on Northrend. Why would any self-respecting Evil Overlord of the world allow this to happen? Personally, it invites self-destruction.

Deathwing is going to be allowing camps in “his” zones and adventurers in his dungeons too. Its hardly a flaw limited only to Arthas, but is essentially ubiquitous across WoW villainy.

[Deemo]

True, but he went from his own territory to ours, thus making him an occupying force. Wars are always worse when the fighting is on your own ground (look at how Germany fared circa 1945). He established his base of power and dropped it right in the middle of a place that is deemed controlled/owned by one faction or another.

While yes, armies will be 'camping on his doorstep', it's not really his doorstep to begin with. It's us trying to push him out of what we (collectively) see as our land. Arthas is a bit different in that case, since settlers really didn't venture that way until we traveled en masse to Northrend to take care of him. Natives to the area were generally dealt with or converted into his army, so thus, we are an occupying force on his turf, vice versa in the case of Deathwing.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

We don’t really know enough about Cataclsym yet to determine that. If Deathwing was ruling Deepholm then we’re invading his turf by going there. We don’t really know what, if any, territory he is occupying in Azeroth. He may just be fucking stuff up for kicks. If he’s still in Grim Batol, the last owners of that were Black Dragons and Skardyn who will most likely fall in line under Deathwing, and its certain there will be bases at its proverbial doorstep set up with the express purpose of going after him.

Either way, the villain allows a staging area to be set up and continue operation in the zone they've claimed. Every villain in WoW does this.

[Nerub29]

They should use phasing to aloud the players be the ones help retaking/constructing those staging areas, instead of just delivering them without any changes from the beggining. Sending them from other zones and starting with the basics.

That way you could get to see some kind of effort in part of the antagonist to stop them from suceeding, put some nice quests and favor with a faction for the player to do and see. Some touching moments to develop other characters besides the main bad guy too.

It could really make the players appreciate more those zones and say "We did that; we fought for every inch of the territory and defended it like madmen against the forces of Darkness. We can now chant blasphemies and insults at his doorstep after breaking his armies and let him revolt in the horror that the next target is his ass" instead of "Why Arthas let the X get there; he isn't not a great tactician and villian for alouding that. Were we supposed to be scared of him or something? What a lame big bad". :rolleyes::)

[Rolandius]

We don’t really know enough about Cataclsym yet to determine that. If Deathwing was ruling Deepholm then we’re invading his turf by going there. We don’t really know what, if any, territory he is occupying in Azeroth. He may just be fucking stuff up for kicks. If he’s still in Grim Batol, the last owners of that were Black Dragons and Skardyn who will most likely fall in line under Deathwing, and its certain there will be bases at its proverbial doorstep set up with the express purpose of going after him.

Either way, the villain allows a staging area to be set up and continue operation in the zone they've claimed. Every villain in WoW does this.

Where is Therazane during all of this. She is the ruler of Deepholm. ''Shadows & Light'' says that "Some sages believe she feels pain whenever the ground is sundered and weeps at the destruction wrought by Deathwing and his ilk." and this is going to be a big sundering, plus he is right in her realm.

[Lon-ami]

They should use phasing to aloud the players be the ones help retaking/constructing those staging areas, instead of just delivering them without any changes from the beggining. Sending them from other zones and starting with the basics.

That way you could get to see some kind of effort in part of the antagonist to stop them from suceeding, put some nice quests and favor with a faction for the player to do and see. Some touching moments to develop other characters besides the main bad guy too.

It could really make the players appreciate more those zones and say "We did that; we fought for every inch of the territory and defended it like madmen against the forces of Darkness. We can now chant blasphemies and insults at his doorstep after breaking his armies and let him revolt in the horror that the next target is his ass" instead of "Why Arthas let the X get there; he isn't not a great tactician and villian for alouding that. Were we supposed to be scared of him or something? What a lame big bad". :rolleyes::)

Quoted for truth.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

They should use phasing to aloud the players be the ones help retaking/constructing those staging areas, instead of just delivering them without any changes from the beggining. Sending them from other zones and starting with the basics.

That way you could get to see some kind of effort in part of the antagonist to stop them from suceeding, put some nice quests and favor with a faction for the player to do and see. Some touching moments to develop other characters besides the main bad guy too.

It could really make the players appreciate more those zones and say "We did that; we fought for every inch of the territory and defended it like madmen against the forces of Darkness. We can now chant blasphemies and insults at his doorstep after breaking his armies and let him revolt in the horror that the next target is his ass" instead of "Why Arthas let the X get there; he isn't not a great tactician and villian for alouding that. Were we supposed to be scared of him or something? What a lame big bad". :rolleyes::)

Phasing is good for storytelling, but I have always found it to be incredibly annoying from a practical gameplay standpoint, especially if you have any group quests you have to accomplish in a phased area. I’d prefer if they kept phasing minimalist. Its not like you can't tell a story without it.


Where is Therazane during all of this. She is the ruler of Deepholm. ''Shadows & Light'' says that "Some sages believe she feels pain whenever the ground is sundered and weeps at the destruction wrought by Deathwing and his ilk." and this is going to be a big sundering, plus he is right in her realm.

Maybe he enslaved or killed her? Being the Aspect of Earth might make Earth elementals absolutely the most helpless people against him. Think a wolverine against magneto kind of thing.

[RawIsRamsey]

Seriously...let's be completely realistic here. The fight would go something like this:

Arthas: Fool! You think you can withstand the onslaught of the Scourge? Come, pathetic beast! Feel my wr--

*gulp*

Tiny man is no match for dragon god. He's the death aspect for a reason.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

He's not the Death Aspect. He's the Earth-warder. There is no aspect of death. He also is not a god.

[Marchais]

He's not the Death Aspect. He's the Earth-warder. There is no aspect of death. He also is not a god."The Death Aspect" is, actually, one of Deathwing's titles now. I don't think the poster was trying to imply that he has mastery over Death in any way, but he certainly did not earn that title by not being powerful and ruthless.

EDIT: Though, I don't think anyone here is trying to assert that Deathwing isn't strong at all. The Lich King and Deathwing are both very possible, and I honestly can't decide who would win, especially since at this point the story has given Arthas many blows that are apparently weakening him(every time he faces Tirion in one of those dialogue parts he loses a chunk of his health.) I'm more inclined to see Deathwing as stronger, but I think that's only because we haven't actually seen the Lich King do anything. His greatest displays of power have been in creating the army of the Scourge, he's barely exerted his own personal power directly against an opponent. So, who knows, we may never really know what the Lich King himself is capable of outside of a raid setting. Creating a massive army of minions is fine against mortal opponents, but against a powerful immortal like Deathwing I don't think it will make a difference. It'll only matter how personally powerful the Lich King is. Especially when you consider Arthas can't just blink all of his undead creations into existence whenever he wants, he's spent lots of time and research creating what he has now, and has had plenty of help from high-ranking Scourge members and the Cult of the Damned.

[Deemo]

"The Death Aspect" is, actually, one of Deathwing's titles now. I don't think the poster was trying to imply that he has mastery over Death in any way, but he certainly did not earn that title by not being powerful and ruthless.

Truth. He has quite a few titles like this, though not all of them are widely known or considered familiar by many.

Hense, I think, the initial debate.

And Gurtogg, you seem to be missing my point when it comes to war. Granted with Deepholm being the exception, Deathwing will be stomping his happy-ass into a place that he didn't orginally proffer as his own thus ---->OCCUPYING<---- the land with himself and his own forces. Occupation in war is defined by the seizure and control of an area by military forces, esp. foreign territory. While the area isn't necessarily new to him (being the Earth Aspect, I imagine he's very familiar with damn near anyplace where dirt exists), he's taken it over by force or coercion (did someone mention the French?), surplanted, replaced, destroyed, or absorbed the local powers in order to form his foothold.

While I understand that WoW has to sort of cater to the idea that we're always fighting on the enemies' home turf and has him on the backpeddle, this doesn't seem the case with Deathwing (albeit that 'home turf' is a misnomer due to the fact that he intimately knows the land. Earth Aspect, yadda yadda). We're not pushing him shoulder to shoulder, spear in hand back against his own proverbial castle walls; he just ripped Azeroth a new asshole right under our nose, right as we're busy 'fending off the ultimate threat of Arthas', to make some demands of his own, like: where's my pie?

[Wabbajack]

Your witty writing-skills never cease to amaze and amuse me, Deemo^^

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

"The Death Aspect" is, actually, one of Deathwing's titles now.

Based on what? Wowwiki? Its a misnomer. I don’t believe Deathwing was ever called the “death aspect” in actual lore, despite canonically having other names like Xaxas. It would confuse his role.


And Gurtogg, you seem to be missing my point when it comes to war. Granted with Deepholm being the exception, Deathwing will be stomping his happy-ass into a place that he didn't orginally proffer as his own thus ---->OCCUPYING<---- the land with himself and his own forces. Occupation in war is defined by the seizure and control of an area by military forces, esp. foreign territory. While the area isn't necessarily new to him (being the Earth Aspect, I imagine he's very familiar with damn near anyplace where dirt exists), he's taken it over by force or coercion (did someone mention the French?), surplanted, replaced, destroyed, or absorbed the local powers in order to form his foothold.

While I understand that WoW has to sort of cater to the idea that we're always fighting on the enemies' home turf and has him on the backpeddle, this doesn't seem the case with Deathwing (albeit that 'home turf' is a misnomer due to the fact that he intimately knows the land. Earth Aspect, yadda yadda). We're not pushing him shoulder to shoulder, spear in hand back against his own proverbial castle walls; he just ripped Azeroth a new asshole right under our nose, right as we're busy 'fending off the ultimate threat of Arthas', to make some demands of his own, like: where's my pie?

Yes your definitions are very impressive, if inapplicable to the situation at hand. Grim Batol has long been his base of operations. He used it during the second war, Black Dragons were using it as recently as NotD, and Deathwing himself was there. It’s the birthplace of the Twilight Flight. It certainly isn’t a Wildhammer Castle anymore, they abandoned it 800 years ago. For intents and purposes, it is and has been his castle and its almost guaranteed we’ll be pushing his forces back into it and killing them there, and we'll likely be launching from newly established holdings designed for just that purpose. Deepholm seems to have become his realm as well. Again, we don’t know. We don’t know if he’s occupying any other territory yet, all we know is he managed to wreak havoc on the World through busting a hole between Deepholm and Azeroth, not that he has seized control of all those areas he affected with military force or if he even has the capability to do so.

[Revenant]

Maybe he enslaved or killed her? Being the Aspect of Earth might make Earth elementals absolutely the most helpless people against him. Think a wolverine against magneto kind of thing.

She could be his new consort...

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

She could be his new consort...

He has shown in the past that he doesn't mind getting his rape on.

[Rolandius]

She could be his new consort...

Does he like non-dragon consorts?

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

He was going to marry Calia and presumably also do her.

[Rolandius]

He was going to marry Calia and presumably also do her.

I thought that was more of a political strategy. Can dragons even have children with whichever race they are under the guise of?

[Omacron]

I thought that was more of a political strategy. Can dragons even have children with whichever race they are under the guise of?

I hope not. I doubt it. Dragons are not placental, after all. Even if they can shapeshift themselves a *****, I doubt they could fertilize a mammal.

[Rolandius]

I hope not. I doubt it. Dragons are not placental, after all. Even if they can shapeshift themselves a *****, I doubt they could fertilize a mammal.

Ya. We don't want to end up with something like that thing at the end of Alien Resurrection.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

I thought that was more of a political strategy. Can dragons even have children with whichever race they are under the guise of?

He can sleep with her without having to have children with her.

And if aliens can have children with each other, I see no reason in this warcraft fantasy universe that we can’t have half-dragons as well. It depends on if Blizzard thinks it would be cool or not.

[Rolandius]

He can sleep with her without having to have children with her.

And if aliens can have children with each other, I see no reason in this warcraft fantasy universe that we can’t have half-dragons as well. It depends on if Blizzard thinks it would be cool or not.

I would think Deathwing would want a consort to increase his dragonflight, not to just marry.

[Omacron]

He can sleep with her without having to have children with her.

And if aliens can have children with each other, I see no reason in this warcraft fantasy universe that we can’t have half-dragons as well. It depends on if Blizzard thinks it would be cool or not.

At least Draenei are stated to be mammals, though...

[Rolandius]

At least Draenei are stated to be mammals, though...

I think he was talking about other franchises or something. Not sure.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

I would think Deathwing would want a consort to increase his dragonflight, not to just marry.

And he’s limited to one because? Even other dragons are polygamous. He can bang whoever he wants and have enough sperm leftover to increase his flight. Did you think Deathwing wasn’t going to consummate the marriage to Calia?

At least Draenei are stated to be mammals, though...

So? The rules of science and biology clearly don’t apply to Warcraft breeding. We’ve got more examples of intelligent species that are confirmed to be able to interbred than those that are confirmed not to be. Having cross-species children has never even been brought up as an issue in-universe, it just always works. The inherent magic involved with Dragons makes it even easier to explain away. If Blizz chooses to go that route then they could easily have half-dragons.

I think he was talking about other franchises or something. Not sure.

No I wasn’t.

[Rolandius]

And he’s limited to one because? Even other dragons are polygamous. He can bang whoever he wants and have enough sperm leftover to increase his flight. Did you think Deathwing wasn’t going to consummate the marriage to Calia?.

I never said he is limited to a certain number of consorts. I said his reasons for having them are limited to a few ideas. Mainly to increase his dragonflight, or in this case political. He doesn't even like humans existing. I think once he married her, he would have used his "mesmerizing" powers to make her think anything he wanted as he did with the others. Eventually he would have made the various kingdoms destroy each other or something.

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

Yeah, that was his plan. But I’m fairly certain he would have slept with her as well, if for no other reasons than to keep up pretenses early on. The mesmerizing just made everyone love him, it didn’t outright create new memories.

His reasons for having cosnorts aren’t limited to just breeding, I’m sure Deathwing just wants to fuck sometimes.

Its not confirmed, but heavily implied that Onyxia was sleeping with Charming Varian in that we see them in a panel in bed and caressing each other. We also know Tyri and Jorad basically formed a relationship. Dragon-Human is not unheard of.

[Rolandius]

Yeah, that was his plan. But I’m fairly certain he would have slept with her as well, if for no other reasons than to keep up pretenses early on. The mesmerizing just made everyone love him, it didn’t outright create new memories.

His reasons for having cosnorts aren’t limited to just breeding, I’m sure Deathwing just wants to fuck sometimes.

Its not confirmed, but heavily implied that Onyxia was sleeping with Charming Varian in that we see them in a panel in bed and caressing each other. We also know Tyri and Jorad basically formed a relationship. Dragon-Human is not unheard of.

I haven't read the Onyxia/Varian or Tyri/Jorad stories. I can only comment on Deathwing.

He actually did sort of create memories. For instance, Terenas thought the idea that Deathwing should marry his daughter and become the ruler of Alterac was his own idea. Deathwing put that into Terenas' mind and when he told Deathwing about the idea, Deathwing was all "Oh really? Wow that is a good idea. You are a great king to think of that cool idea". Another time Terenas was hesitant in some decision but Deathwing was all "Are you sure that is what you think king?" and Terenas was like "Oh no, maybe your actually right" and Deathwing was all "Oh, of course I am just following your great policy king".

[Exxile87]

The fact that draenei can breed with orcs, orcs with humans, humans with ogres, ogres with orcs leads me to think the Titans seeded all of these races and that's why they can all breed. Dragons weren't seeded by the Titans (they existed previously along with tauren, trolls, and the Furbolgs) and they're reptilian. So my guess is that there are no half-dragons out there.

[Hidden]

The fact that draenei can breed with orcs, orcs with humans, humans with ogres, ogres with orcs leads me to think the Titans seeded all of these races and that's why they can all breed. Dragons weren't seeded by the Titans (they existed previously along with tauren, trolls, and the Furbolgs) and they're reptilian. So my guess is that there are no half-dragons out there.

Go to an RP server.

...

I cried and died a little on the inside the other night when I ran into random half-blood elf half-dragon chick. 'Course, I was on my mentally unstable guy, so he just made fun of her and called her a loon and told her to go ahead and change into a dragon then, if she was one.

I think I got put on ignore. : /

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

I haven't read the Onyxia/Varian or Tyri/Jorad stories. I can only comment on Deathwing.

He actually did sort of create memories. For instance, Terenas thought the idea that Deathwing should marry his daughter and become the ruler of Alterac was his own idea. Deathwing put that into Terenas' mind and when he told Deathwing about the idea, Deathwing was all "Oh really? Wow that is a good idea. You are a great king to think of that cool idea". Another time Terenas was hesitant in some decision but Deathwing was all "Are you sure that is what you think king?" and Terenas was like "Oh no, maybe your actually right" and Deathwing was all "Oh, of course I am just following your great policy king".

That was more like influencing decisions rather than outright creating false memories. Either way, Occam’s razor. It’s simpler to just do her than to make some elaborate spell to make her remember it as if it happened, especially if DW was going to keep appearances up long enough to ruin the alliance from the inside like Onyxia nearly did and the mages of Dalaran suspected him. They were already sensing his spell work at hand, why add more?

The fact that draenei can breed with orcs, orcs with humans, humans with ogres, ogres with orcs leads me to think the Titans seeded all of these races and that's why they can all breed. Dragons weren't seeded by the Titans (they existed previously along with tauren, trolls, and the Furbolgs) and they're reptilian. So my guess is that there are no half-dragons out there.

Except nothing else corroborates your theory besides trying to apply science to warcraft. There is no indication that the Titans seeded Draenor or Argus, nor that they seeded Azeroth races that can interbreed like Elves.

There may be no half dragons out there now, but if Blizz wants there to be there will be. There would be no retcons either because nothing says that it isn’t possible.

[Rolandius]

That was more like influencing decisions rather than outright creating false memories. Either way, Occam’s razor. It’s simpler to just do her than to make some elaborate spell to make her remember it as if it happened, especially if DW was going to keep appearances up long enough to ruin the alliance from the inside like Onyxia nearly did and the mages of Dalaran suspected him. They were already sensing his spell work at hand, why add more?


Well, Dalaran was sort of being ignored by all kingdoms due to Deathwing's doing.

[Omacron]

Go to an RP server.

...

I cried and died a little on the inside the other night when I ran into random half-blood elf half-dragon chick. 'Course, I was on my mentally unstable guy, so he just made fun of her and called her a loon and told her to go ahead and change into a dragon then, if she was one.

I think I got put on ignore. : /

Oh my god, that's just like me! Except my character is always hopped up on drugs of his own creation, and my favored "prey" are so called vampires. His official stance is that they're roleplayers (not people RPing vampires, but ELVES RPing vampires) and he once tried to kill one by stuffing 20 sided die down its throat.

[Hidden]

Oh my god, that's just like me! Except my character is always hopped up on drugs of his own creation, and my favored "prey" are so called vampires. His official stance is that they're roleplayers (not people RPing vampires, but ELVES RPing vampires) and he once tried to kill one by stuffing 20 sided die down its throat.

That is beautiful! XD I will say, I have not run across any vampires as of yet. Thank god. Though I do need to head out to Silvermoon eventually to get an update on the RP there, considering my main, an orc, refuses to step foot in an STD ridden place like that [His words, not mine! :B].

Sadly, my guy in question that is like yours is a...blood elf. :< The only one I have, but seriously, he is fun as hell to RP. I couldn't imagine him as any other race, sadly. : /

[Omacron]

That is beautiful! XD I will say, I have not run across any vampires as of yet. Thank god. Though I do need to head out to Silvermoon eventually to get an update on the RP there, considering my main, an orc, refuses to step foot in an STD ridden place like that [His words, not mine! :B].

Sadly, my guy in question that is like yours is a...blood elf. :< The only one I have, but seriously, he is fun as hell to RP. I couldn't imagine him as any other race, sadly. : /

Nah, my character's a Nelf. My guild makes their home in darkshire and we've made the inn one of the server hotspots, but darkshire also seems to be the place where everyone decides to RP vampires.

[Hidden]

Nah, my character's a Nelf. My guild makes their home in darkshire and we've made the inn one of the server hotspots, but darkshire also seems to be the place where everyone decides to RP vampires.

Ah ha. Twisting Nether Alliance RP isn't anywhere near as big as Horde side. I truly do wish there was more so I could play my Wildhammer Dwarf Paladin who refuses to use the Light and thinks it's a bunch of hooplah.

[Corse]

If Elves are what Trolls claim they are - mutated Trolls - then the 'only Titan-made guys get to have babies' theory would sort of fall apart given we know there are half-human half-elves in-game.

But I'm sure some would then insist Elves aren't mutated Trolls. I disgress...

Ah ha. Twisting Nether Alliance RP isn't anywhere near as big as Horde side. I truly do wish there was more so I could play my Wildhammer Dwarf Paladin who refuses to use the Light and thinks it's a bunch of hooplah.

*brain explodes*

I had a Gnome Technoshaman in vanilla. He used the wonderful power of SCIENCE to harness the elements. It was an amusing gimmick character, but now with Dwarves getting the class in addition to the Alliance having it good old Gizmototem seems less and less relevant. Le sigh.

[Hidden]

*brain explodes*


heh, yeah. It is pretty brain explodey. Think of it as a lame reason I play Ret and Ret only. He claims he is a warrior. XD

[Omacron]

Why... not use a dwarf warrior, then?

[Hidden]

Why... not use a dwarf warrior, then?

Shits and giggles mostly.

Edit: Also I have two high level warriors. -.-
One dwarf who was my main for nearly two years on a lame PVE server.
One orc who is my current main on an RPPVP server.

Plus it makes for some fun Paladin bashing when other Paladins claim he is not what he says he is.

[Rolandius]

I think leperchauns have more lore than half-dragons. :buck:

[Gurtogg_Bloodboil]

There’s a difference between “does exist” and “could exist if Blizz wanted them to”. It’s pretty obvious that they haven’t stated half dragons/half humans exist in lore yet, and it was never suggested that they do.

[ARM3481]

I think leperchauns have more lore than half-dragons. :buck:

Oh hell, as if non-irradiated leprechauns weren't bad enough. :glare:

...

:P

[Rolandius]

Oh hell, as if non-irradiated leprechauns weren't bad enough. :glare:

...

:P

:rofl: I mean leprechaun. Not those leper chauns. Chaun!

[Oplu]

However, Arthas would not. He could simply swarm the Dragon with endless Ghouls (etc.) and come in for the killing blow. I doubt that Deathwings armor could withstand a blow from Frostmourne. I think the outcome would be clear. The Lich king would come out the victor.....


If his armor is withstanding the eternal explosions of the power Deathwing has, i think Frostmourne would be small beans.

[Oplu]

I think a lot of people are severely over-estimating Deathwing and making him see like the most uber guy ever. He’s been defeated before on numerous occassions. I mean, he didn’t just drop a volcano on Khadgar and his crew. He’s never shown the ability to destroy an entire continent as was ludicrously postulated when “he’d just destroy Northrend”. How he goes about causing the Cataclysm is still somewhat nebulous, but it seems as if he did so by doing something very specific with the entrance between Azeroth and the Elemental Plane. It wasn’t his own power that just willed all of Azeroth into pieces.

One Aspect has already been dropped by players, and without the Demon Soul Deathwing isn’t SO much more powerful than Malygos.


A: he didn't use the elemental planes, he caused so much destruction that he ripped them open.
B:He consumed the dragonsoul and now has its power.
C:he's bad ass :P

[Rolandius]

A: he didn't use the elemental planes, he caused so much destruction that he ripped them open.
B:He consumed the dragonsoul and now has its power.
C:he's bad ass :P

Is this Chuck Norris or Deathwing? :goofy:

[Terocitas]

Is this Chuck Norris or Deathwing? :goofy:

please, no more chuck norris..... :glare: