PDA

View Full Version : Naxxramas - Road to Damnation


Warlock
04-27-2006, 03:43 PM
Blizzard has released a very nice preview of Naxxramas, <A HREF="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/1p11/roadtodamnation.html">Road to Damnation</a>, which details the story of Kel'Thuzad just before the events of WarCraft 3. It's a very nice read, and it has a lot of great screenshots.

They have also released a wallpaper for Naxxramas which can be found <A HREF="http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/downloads/wallpapers/wallpaper73.html">right here</a>.

WoW.com has been acting up however, so if you are having difficulty reaching the site you might want to try the same story on <A HREF="http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/1p11/naxxramas/roadtodamnation.html">WoW-Europe</a>. Same content, faster server :)

Bradford
04-28-2006, 01:03 PM
After reading this tib bit, I cannot fathom how one could become strong enough to defile the Lich king. What I dont understand is WHY Kil'jaden let loose such a being that he knew one day he would not be able to control? Was he THAT desperate to conquer Azeroth? I sorta look at it this way, and it confuses me but maybe someone can make light of this......
Ner'zhul < Gul'dan < Kil'Jaden < Lich King. Someone tell me how Ner'Zhul Leap frogged in the chain of power so much? I mean WHY would Kil'Jaden give a being, that he wished to punish, more power that himself and THEN set them loose?!?!?!? Makes me wonder???? Also it spoke of the Necropolis as being a building that was not made by the Nerubians or the "master." What is the source of these buildings then? Are the constructs of the BL???

Wulfang
04-28-2006, 01:42 PM
When Kil'jaeden created the Lich King he didn't made him stronger than him. The Lich King is now stronger than Kil'jaeden because every being that joins the ranks of the Scourge increases the Lich King's power. And, besides that, he is now fused with the most powerful paladin/death knight to ever exist, Arthas Menethil.

And Naxxramas was originally built by the nerubians. Anub'arak says they took it from the remaining living nerubians after he became a crypt lord.

Bradford
04-28-2006, 02:36 PM
That still raises the question of WHY Kil'Jaden did this. I mean he MADE the lich king, he should KNOW what he was capable of. That would be considerable to a bomb EXPERT making a bomb that he was not sure of its blast radius. I understand there is always an aspect of chaos that one cannon account for, but I would think a being of Kil'Jadens knowledge and power would know his creations abilities!!! Am I crazy or am I missing something?

Vicious
04-28-2006, 02:39 PM
Lich King > Kil´Jaeden = Fandom.

Creative
04-28-2006, 02:43 PM
Lich King > Kil´Jaeden = Fandom.

Agreed.
I think some of you are underestimating the Demonlord's power.

Tysar
04-28-2006, 02:55 PM
That still raises the question of WHY Kil'Jaden did this. I mean he MADE the lich king, he should KNOW what he was capable of. That would be considerable to a bomb EXPERT making a bomb that he was not sure of its blast radius. I understand there is always an aspect of chaos that one cannon account for, but I would think a being of Kil'Jadens knowledge and power would know his creations abilities!!! Am I crazy or am I missing something?


no idea here... and where did he get the power from? Wouldn't it be more logical if instead of sending down the Lich King he just infused those powers in himslef and pwned everyone? And if he basically took a bit of his powers and created the Lich King, wouldn't he be able to destroy him easily? Or is it just that he basically has no means of entering Azeroth (like Archimonde trough Kel'Thuzad's portal and Sargeras through the Well of Eternity or during the Dragon Hunt)? But that wouldn't work, Illidan opened a portal for himself without any effort, Kil'Jaeden could open a bigger one for himself (or just crawl through a smaller one :D "shit, I'm stuck!")(this also brings up the question why Archimonde couldn't do that too). In other words, I have no idea... or perhaps basically he never assumed there is a chance of the Legion being defeated by the mortal races of Azeroth... Perhaps the Lich king could've easily been destroyed by the Dreadlords who have been taking care over him with the help of Mannoroth, Archimonde and the rest of BL. They didn't know they're gonna lose, and notice it's right after those events that Kil appeared to Illidan and "asked" him to kill The Lich King.

Bradford
04-28-2006, 02:55 PM
Lich King > Kil´Jaeden = Fandom.

Must I point out a number of threads, on THIS forum, that reffer to the Lich King outclassing the Demon Lord? It seemed to be a fact that is agreed upon, or so I though.

Yuber8900
04-28-2006, 04:28 PM
Most of those posts were by Kenzuki.

Wulfang
04-28-2006, 04:56 PM
Most of those posts were by Kenzuki.

Yeah, but he's right ;)

Vicious
04-28-2006, 05:36 PM
Must I point out a number of threads, on THIS forum, that reffer to the Lich King outclassing the Demon Lord? It seemed to be a fact that is agreed upon, or so I though.

Read Yubber´s post.


It´s fandom, like it or not.

Wulfang
04-29-2006, 04:58 AM
No, it isn't just fandom. In fact, I think that the Lich King and Kil'jaeden would be evenly matched.

What we need now is another one of Kenzuki's analysis of the two characters based on their RPG stats.

Timolas
04-29-2006, 05:40 AM
How could the Lich King possibly beat Kil'jaeden?

After all, he was GIVEN his power by Kil'jaeden... from Ner'zhul, made INTO the Lich King by Kil'jaeden.
Arthas got all his power from the Lich King too, so them fusing is Lichie getting his full strength back, which is all a gift from Kil'jaeden.

Makes no sense at all, to have Kil'jaeden give the Lich King more power than he himself has, in fact, he wouldn't even be able to do that. Face it... being pro-scourge doesnt mean youre right.

Wulfang
04-29-2006, 09:14 AM
How many times do I have to repeat it: the Lich King's power grows with every new creature that joins the Scourge's ranks. Kil'jaeden didn´t create him with all the power he has now.

Since he came to Azeroth, the Lich King has converted to his service the majority of the population of the kingdoms of Azjol'Nerub, Quel'Thalas, Lordaeron and Dalaran, thousands of dragon corpses from the Dragonblight and some of the demons that entered the world during the Third War. All the knowledge he has gained from all these beings has surely made him grow in power. And remeber, he also has Arthas' body and abilities.

Do you still doubt he could be on par with Kil'jaeden?!

Kenzuki
04-29-2006, 09:27 AM
1. Kil'jaeden created the Lich King.

2. After landing in Northrend Ner'zhul's power starts to increase after more souls are added into the Scourge. He is still weaker at this point in time than Archimonde and Kil'jaeden, thus he serves them.

3. When Arthas and Ner'zhul fused they became an Eternal. It has already statted by Bob Fitch of Blizzard Entertainment that Arthas the Lich Kingi s more powerful than Archimonde the Defiler was.

4. Kil'jaeden is stronger than Archimonde was, but the Lich King could hand him his arse in melee combat. Being an Eternal such as he is, he is immune to alot of Kil'jaeden's killer spells such as disentegration, death, etc.

5. Kil'jaeden was getting desperate to destroy Ner'zhul before he was released. Know if he wasn't afraid of his creation in the slightest bit, please explain to me.

It's fact that it was Ner'zhul who helped fel the Legion at Hyjal. His carefully mechanations were what helped the mortals repel Archimonde and the Legion. You can bet that Kil'jaeden is going to be more weary of his creation. In all aspects his creation has surpassed what he was supposed to be. He was an experiment that went horribly wrong.....I'm confident that if the two ever met in single combat on Azeroth, the Lich King would have the upper hand.

Tysar
04-29-2006, 09:29 AM
Kil'Jaeden could melt all his kingdom and byebye undead :D (unless they bother walking countless miles underwater to get to Lordaeron...) jk :D Seriously though, I wonder if 200 or more Archmages gathered and started fireballing the Ice Crown or made a huge fire spell together, would it melt? :D

Kenzuki
04-29-2006, 09:43 AM
Kil'Jaeden could melt all his kingdom and byebye undead :D (unless they bother walking countless miles underwater to get to Lordaeron...) jk :D Seriously though, I wonder if 200 or more Archmages gathered and started fireballing the Ice Crown or made a huge fire spell together, would it melt? :D

If Kil'jaeden could do that he wouldn't have sent Illidan now would he? Kil'jaeden has to be very careful in his approch to the Lich King. The Legion already lost alot of it's most powerful commanders in the last invasion.

Mannoroth, Tichondrius, Archimonde, Anetheron, and it lost it's leader Sargeras 800 years ago. Kil'jaeden has to be very careful especially when there is a being that rivals him in power that wants revenge for what he did to him.

Ersinus
04-29-2006, 10:43 AM
I agree that Lich King can be a match for his creator in power. Especially when he fused with Arthas. I think that Arthas' spirit was more important that his body. Arthas has one of the most strongs will's that any mortal had on Azeroth. His dedication on matters is legendary, as Paladin left alone by his mentor Uther,
father and his ex-girl/now close ally Jaina managed to nearly destroy the Scourge in Northrend till Frostmourne did took his soul. Also as Death Knight poisoned, betrayed, weakened Arthas resurected a powerfull leviathan, survived the ruins of Azjul-Nerub, killed an old god(or whaterever was it). And of all this he succeded because his strong will suprass everything else, even Ilidan's thirst for power and magic. No doubt that Arthas' personality is more dominant one in the Lich King.

But as for Kil'Jaeden his is no fool either, nor blinded by power and status. His patience is his most strong weapon. The fact that he is the only survivor of the demon lords is enough proof.

Timolas
04-29-2006, 03:01 PM
All I know is that if an expansion with Northrend is ever released, Ill celebrate with an overdose of the most expensive alcohol money can buy in real life, when Arthas is taken down. And Ill pray its a lore death... because I hate that guy.
I still think that Kil'jaeden could beat Arthas. A main factor is size... he can literally step on Arthas. And scrape his rusty hoof on the side walk, leaving a smear. But really, he COULD step on Arthas. Big > small

Kenzuki
04-29-2006, 03:10 PM
All I know is that if an expansion with Northrend is ever released, Ill celebrate with an overdose of the most expensive alcohol money can buy in real life, when Arthas is taken down. And Ill pray its a lore death... because I hate that guy.
I still think that Kil'jaeden could beat Arthas. A main factor is size... he can literally step on Arthas. And scrape his rusty hoof on the side walk, leaving a smear. But really, he COULD step on Arthas. Big > small

You ever hear the story of David and Goliath?


You know, a common Mountain Giant could step on Arthas too, but I'm totally confident that he'd still kick it's ass.

Tysar
04-30-2006, 05:59 AM
Arthas could summon his great powers to make a force shield or something, or just to boost his strength. Imagine the He-man scene :D

Vicious
04-30-2006, 09:45 AM
Kil'jaeden was getting desperate to destroy Ner'zhul before he was released. Know if he wasn't afraid of his creation in the slightest bit, please explain to me.

Desperate?
More like pissed to the fact that he actually betrayed him, if he was desperate he would have used someone more reliable then the traitorous Illidan for God´s sake.


I still find it funny when people say that the Lich King is stronger then KJil´jaeden, people like to follow lore and RPG status to say that the Lich King is stronger then Archimonde, which is true, the developers said this themselves, but then they have this idiotic impression that the Lich King will WTFPWN him with a snap of his fingers or some stupid crap like that, we SAW firsthand what Archimonde is capable of, the Lich King would beat him yes, but Archimonde would fuck him up before that.

It´s said that the Lich King is stronger creature that ever set foot on Azeroth, right?
Well Kil´Jaeden never set foot on Azeroth and his status are better then Archimonde and the Lich King (and i´m not talking about the one in Manual of Monster that is erratad as hell) and in case you haven´t noticed yet, Kil´jaeden is also an Eternal.

This is fact people, you guys are starting to sound like fanboys.

Kenzuki
04-30-2006, 01:22 PM
Desperate?
More like pissed to the fact that he actually betrayed him, if he was desperate he would have used someone more reliable then the traitorous Illidan for God´s sake.


I still find it funny when people say that the Lich King is stronger then KJil´jaeden, people like to follow lore and RPG status to say that the Lich King is stronger then Archimonde, which is true, the developers said this themselves, but then they have this idiotic impression that the Lich King will WTFPWN him with a snap of his fingers or some stupid crap like that, we SAW firsthand what Archimonde is capable of, the Lich King would beat him yes, but Archimonde would fuck him up before that.

It´s said that the Lich King is stronger creature that ever set foot on Azeroth, right?
Well Kil´Jaeden never set foot on Azeroth and his status are better then Archimonde and the Lich King (and i´m not talking about the one in Manual of Monster that is erratad as hell) and in case you haven´t noticed yet, Kil´jaeden is also an Eternal.

This is fact people, you guys are starting to sound like fanboys.

Well I prefer Taelohn's version of the Lich King, which corrects the mistakes the MoM has and adds the Eternal Template to him. It also gives him a few special abillities that other Eternals have. I'm not saying the Lich King can WTFPWN Kil'jaeden or Archimonde. I'm merely saying he could defeat Archimonde without using his full powers, and would have a pretty GOOD chance at killing Kil'jaeden IF he fought him face to face. Remember, Kil'jaeden would rather die than get his claws dirty in actual combat. So while he can't WTFPWN Special K, he is certainly a very REAL Threat to him.

They say revenge is a dish best served cold. Well in Northrend, it is very cold...

Cantus
04-30-2006, 01:35 PM
Well I prefer Taelohn's version of the Lich King, which corrects the mistakes the MoM has and adds the Eternal Template to him. It also gives him a few special abillities that other Eternals have. I'm not saying the Lich King can WTFPWN Kil'jaeden or Archimonde. I'm merely saying he could defeat Archimonde without using his full powers, and would have a pretty GOOD chance at killing Kil'jaeden IF he fought him face to face. Remember, Kil'jaeden would rather die than get his claws dirty in actual combat. So while he can't WTFPWN Special K, he is certainly a very REAL Threat to him.

They say revenge is a dish best served cold. Well in Northrend, it is very cold...

Something tells me Kil'jaeden won't set foot onto Azeroth until the time is right. He's not the kind of being to just non-chalantly walk into a hostile world and smack Arthas with a dueling glove.

In fact, i'm sure that Kil'jaeden will lure Arthas into the Nether for any such pitched battle, as there Arthas has no armies, and "special K" has thousands. Not to mention, none of those thousands seem likely to be mind controlled any time soon.

Kenzuki
04-30-2006, 01:40 PM
Something tells me Kil'jaeden won't set foot onto Azeroth until the time is right. He's not the kind of being to just non-chalantly walk into a hostile world and smack Arthas with a dueling glove.

In fact, i'm sure that Kil'jaeden will lure Arthas into the Nether for any such pitched battle, as there Arthas has no armies, and "special K" has thousands. Not to mention, none of those thousands seem likely to be mind controlled any time soon.

The Lich King is no idiot, he's not just going to walk into the Twisting Nether, even though his arcane powers would be boosted as well. He outsmarted the Legion once, he may do it again one day. Who knows? I guess we will have to wait til Warcraft IV.

Tysar
04-30-2006, 01:49 PM
can't the Lich King see into the future? In Wc3, Kel'Thuzad kept babbling on how the Lich King knew how the BL would lose, and how he would die, and how Arthas would be converted and so on... But then he would also know what's Illidan up to... anyway, my point is that if this was true, then wouldn't he just be able to tell that if he goes to the Twisting Nether (if he considered that at all) he's gonna be in deep trouble?

Creative
04-30-2006, 02:36 PM
About that time seeing...

I dont belive it works that way. Sure, he maybe sees ONE future, but you still has a free reason to chose. Life isnt one path, you can change that path anytime you want.

So, even if Ner'zhul did see Arthas going bad, I still think Arthas had a choice before he lifted Frostmourne.

So it is hard to predict the future.

Also, I think Kil'jaeden would defeat the Lich King... I have not many theorys to back it up that hasnt been said tho', just a feeling I have.

Cantus
04-30-2006, 08:12 PM
Oddly enough, the Dune series can be applied here. Paul Atreides was able to see into the future, and lead his people as he saw fit. However, it was only one path, a path that required Atreides to constantly view the future.

His son, Leto II realized that looking into the future was not how it should work. Though he too held this power, it would only push who ever wielded it through the same linear timeline. There was no happy ending, because the future wasn't being determined by natural laws, but by what one persons interpretations of them would be. In essence, by looking into the future and preparing for an event, you were forcing that event to occur.

I believe that the same thing can be applied with the Lich King. Whether or not he follows the path of forcing the future, or merely going with what events come to him, he must grasp one of these ideals in order to wield such powers. Things are different with Nozdormu, who literally travels through time and makes sure no one affects it abnormally.

Vicious
05-01-2006, 08:32 AM
Well I prefer Taelohn's version of the Lich King, which corrects the mistakes the MoM has and adds the Eternal Template to him. It also gives him a few special abillities that other Eternals have.

Yeah, that´s the one i was comparing.

I'm not saying the Lich King can WTFPWN Kil'jaeden or Archimonde. I'm merely saying he could defeat Archimonde without using his full powers, and would have a pretty GOOD chance at killing Kil'jaeden IF he fought him face to face. Remember, Kil'jaeden would rather die than get his claws dirty in actual combat. So while he can't WTFPWN Special K, he is certainly a very REAL Threat to him.

If not his full powers against Archimonde, at least the majority, Archimonde can destroy entires cities with fucking sand for crying out loud.
Now that the Lich King is a real threat to Kil´jaeden i agree, i don´t think that he could kill him one on one but in a planned out scenario it´s more then possible.

Bradford
05-01-2006, 09:37 AM
I think some of you have mistaken my first post on this thread. I didnt say ,without a doubt, that he WOULD be able to kill Kil'Jaden (which I think he could) I was just trying to get some facts to better make my decision. Im glad as many of you posted as you did. I wanted a well diversed conversation about this. My opinion stands. If Kil'Jaden could so easily defeat the Lich King, as some of you insist, then why hasnt he done it yet? Why did he infact recruit a mortal do to it for him? I think some of you forget this. As big of a thorn that the lich king is in Kil"jadens side, I would think if it was within his power to destroy him, he would have done so by now.

Timolas
05-01-2006, 10:15 AM
To me its obvious; he needs to be summoned. Just like Archimonde was. :p
He appeared easily to Illidan because Outland is all screwed up and connected with the Nether and stuff... Azeroth isnt.

Kerrah
05-01-2006, 11:19 AM
To me its obvious; he needs to be summoned. Just like Archimonde was. :p
He appeared easily to Illidan because Outland is all screwed up and connected with the Nether and stuff... Azeroth isnt.
QFT, what illidan saw at Ashenvale wasnt the Real Kil'Jaeden, he cant just come to a place and give people his Warm Regards and leave to destroy countless other worlds.

Kenzuki
05-01-2006, 12:09 PM
What would be badass in Warcraft IV would be if the Lich King himself Summoned Kil'jaeden and in a titantic battle slew the demon lord. It would have the rist of the Elemental Lords and the Old Gods, and it would be a massive battle between the Alliance, Horde, Scourge, Legion, and Old Gods. Just think of the possibilities! It all ends with the eventual return of the Pantheon! :D

Timolas
05-01-2006, 12:16 PM
I like the idea; an epic conflict. Except for the part where Lichie kills Ki'jaedy of course. :p

Creative
05-01-2006, 12:48 PM
I belive that the CURRENT Lich King will die before Kil'jaeden.
I mean, Blizzard has stated that the Burning Legion will always be the "main villains", and if the Legion dont have any leaders... Well, it will be like a spider without legs.

Wulfang
05-01-2006, 03:47 PM
Actually, one of the thoughts I have about Warcraft IV is that during one of the campaigns we'll get to control Illidan's forces and kill Kil'jaeden, whose energies would then be absorbed by Illidan, turning him into an Eternal on par with Azshara and the Lich King...

Just my 2 cents.

Bradford
05-01-2006, 03:47 PM
Where does it say the BL were the main baddies? I mean it has changed 3 times already.

Kenzuki
05-01-2006, 07:52 PM
Actually, one of the thoughts I have about Warcraft IV is that during one of the campaigns we'll get to control Illidan's forces and kill Kil'jaeden, whose energies would then be absorbed by Illidan, turning him into an Eternal on par with Azshara and the Lich King...

Just my 2 cents.

Please, Illidan couldn't kill Kil'jaeden. Kil'jaeden already showed him who was the bitch. Besides, Illidan is mad now, he thinks he defeated Arthas for pete's sake!

Kerrah
05-01-2006, 11:31 PM
Please, Illidan couldn't kill Kil'jaeden. Kil'jaeden already showed him who was the bitch. Besides, Illidan is mad now, he thinks he defeated Arthas for pete's sake!
Who said Illidan would solo him? He has Kael and Vashj and a couple other powerful guys with him!

Then when Illidan is an Ethernal he goes to challenge Arthas in the final showdown!

Tysar
05-02-2006, 01:20 AM
Kil'Jaeden could take an army and a couple of powerful guys with him too... probably more powerful than Kael, Vashj and other put together. He just couldn't get to azeroth himself unless he weakened himself, just what Sargeras did to enter.

Also, Illidan won't fight Arthas again as in his mind Arthas is dead, defeated in the duel they've had. As said, he's mad. And, worst of all, we're gonna kill him soon :sweatdrop

Creative
05-02-2006, 07:21 AM
Where does it say the BL were the main baddies? I mean it has changed 3 times already.

The Orcs---Charged by the Legion
The Scourge---Charged by the Legion

and I think the third was the Burning Legion.... So I think that can go unanswered ;P

Bradford
05-02-2006, 09:36 AM
The Orcs---Charged by the Legion
The Scourge---Charged by the Legion

and I think the third was the Burning Legion.... So I think that can go unanswered ;P

My point is that Blizzard seems to like to pull things out of no where, what proof do you have that they wont unleash some new set of baddies in the future? Say some sorta of new Dieties or Gods or something? Some sorta celestial beings that eat demons or something? My point is that they can do whatever they want :D

Creative
05-02-2006, 11:11 AM
My point is that Blizzard seems to like to pull things out of no where, what proof do you have that they wont unleash some new set of baddies in the future? Say some sorta of new Dieties or Gods or something? Some sorta celestial beings that eat demons or something? My point is that they can do whatever they want :D

Some new sort of Diet?

Hopefully, Blizzard will never do that :D

Edit: Oh, crap. Misread xP

Tysar
05-02-2006, 11:20 AM
how about Old Gods? :D

Creative
05-02-2006, 11:29 AM
I dont think Old Gods really have such huge part in the future games. (With this, I ment Warcraft IV, not lore)

The Old Gods was created in the novels, and in WoW.
And with my inhuman intellect, I noticed a pattern!

In the novels, they cant really make such a big impact on the lore.
And in WoW, they cant make it either.
SO! They create some new enemies, gives them a flashy backstory, and let us fight their minions!

Kerrah
05-02-2006, 12:09 PM
Btw. how did this end up in WC4 from Naxxramas?

Vicious
05-03-2006, 05:55 AM
The Old Gods was created in the novels, and in WoW.


Actually, they are already mentioned in the Warcraft 3 gamebook.

Creative
05-03-2006, 08:57 AM
They were? I got a version with the lore parts cut out, so I didnt know...

Kenzuki
05-04-2006, 07:41 PM
They were? I got a version with the lore parts cut out, so I didnt know...

Noob you missed the bestest part ever!

ARM3481
05-04-2006, 09:06 PM
It's possible that the Old Gods themselves simply can't be a central villain. It's been roughly suggested in WoW quests that their very presence, should they ever emerge from their prison, might instantly kill everything on the planet, perhaps as the world might be caused to shift back into its original entropic state and be rendered incapable of supporting life as it exists now on Azeroth.

Kil'jaeden's unlikely to be killed any time soon, since he seems the sort to never allow himself to be forced into a confrontation unless he had all the cards stacked in his favor and his victory was assured. As for the Lich King, he seems a bit more likely to fall to the sort of hubris that comes with believing oneself to be invincible. He already nearly lost everything in TFT because he never expected anyone to attack him directly and damage his frozen prison. It could be argued that it all worked into his plan to merge with Arthas, but that argument's weakened somewhat by the fact that he didn't simply call Arthas home once the Legion was defeated at Mt. Hyjal. As for the Lich King predicting the future, that may simply be the kind of conceit that comes with possessing a mind capable of expanding across thousands of miles, gathering massive information from every corner of his undead holdings and a goodly ways farther. It seems unlikely that the Lich King would have ever wanted the Dreadlords taking control of Lordaeron in his weakened state, as that would run the risk of them establishing a rather massive foothold for future demonic invasions.

Kerrah
05-05-2006, 06:08 AM
Noob you missed the bestest part ever!
Bestest FTW

Creative
05-05-2006, 06:40 AM
Arthas was always quite overconfident, it is most likely that aspect came with their fusion aswell, as now he is so powerful he will belive he can do anything.