Two Questions about Sargearas

[Kerrah]

Why does everybody think that Sargearas is dead? IMO the thing Aegwynn destroyed was a kind of a puppet that was linked to His soul. When Medivh was killed, his soul survived, why would Sargearas' not? What i think is that it just flew back home and took its normal body back.
My question is: Is there a reliable source saying that Sargearas does not lead the Burning Legion at this precice moment?

The other question: I heard someone say that Sargearas is less powerful than an old god....
If the pantheon came to Azeroth and banished The Old Gods to some abyssal plane by moving their index fingers without a slightest bit of harm done to them without their most powerful warrior (Sargearas), how in the hell can a single Old God outmatch The Most Powerful Warrior of the Titans?

[Tagarline]

it wasnt that the pantheon just made some thingy with their finger.
there was a great war between. from what ive seen, heard and read, titans have died fighting these old gods. correct me if im wrong.
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MERCEDES-BENZ W163 SPECIFICATIONS (http://www.mercedes-wiki.com/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_W163)

[Cantus]

Sorry, have to go spelling nazi, but it's spelled Sargeras. It's the general consensus of this forum (and I think a CM may have spoken of it as well, not sure) that it wasn't an avatar that was killed. Sargeras' actual body was destroyed in the artic wastes. His spirit is now "free floating" within the Twisting Nether.

[Kenzuki]

I'de go furthar to tell you that the Eye of Sargeras was all that was left of the Daemonlord's corporal body, given the centuries of time it spent there it finally condensed into that form, which was destroyed when Illidan botched his spellcasting.

Just remember, while it was Sargeras' body that Aegwynn defeated, he was only at a fraction of his power when she did so, and he was still stronger than she was. He just got cocky and she finished him off with a powerful spell. His spirit was banished to the Abyss when Medivh was killed. Rumors say that the Spirit of the Daemonlord still survives somewhere out there, hungering for a way back into Azeroth.

At this moment the Lord of the Legion is Kil'jaeden, who was Sargeras' Right Hand.

[Vicious]

It's the general consensus of this forum (and I think a CM may have spoken of it as well, not sure) that it wasn't an avatar that was killed. Sargeras' actual body was destroyed in the artic wastes.

It was his freaking avatar, it´s said in several sources now.

[Kenzuki]

It was his freaking avatar, it´s said in several sources now.

It was his avatar, but the fact is it was his REAL body. Metzen even said that the Eye of Sargeras was the last remaining piece of him that was left. If he was REALLY still out there, with his body and everything. Why in hell did he let Archimonde and Kil'jaeden fight for power in the Legion? Why didn't he join in the Third War? Why is Kil'jaeden the current Lord of the Legion?

[Creative]

It was his avatar, but the fact is it was his REAL body. Metzen even said that the Eye of Sargeras was the last remaining piece of him that was left. If he was REALLY still out there, with his body and everything. Why in hell did he let Archimonde and Kil'jaeden fight for power in the Legion? Why didn't he join in the Third War? Why is Kil'jaeden the current Lord of the Legion?

Well, Archimonde is kinda.... dead.
And Sargeras is missing in action.


So Kil'jaeden is the only of the three that still lives.
Well, Sargeras isnt dead either, but he cant do much in his current state.

[Ravenclaw2099]

so it was both an Avatar and his real body at once? That seems a little confusing, though it would kinda explain how he was able to appear without summoning a massive portal, seeing as how his physical from was only a fraction of its true size and power.

[Kerrah]

Why in hell did he let Archimonde and Kil'jaeden fight for power in the Legion? Why didn't he join in the Third War?

Why didnt he join the war of the ancients?

ps. And sorry for the spelling, i understand how you feel.

[UndeadScottsman]

Why didnt he join the war of the ancients?

ps. And sorry for the spelling, i understand how you feel.

IIRC, it's Kil'jaeden's job to find new worlds and races to corrupt (ALA the orcs) whereas it's Archimonde's job to invade the world and make it ready for Sargeras.. But my brain might just be making that up..

[Ravenclaw2099]

IIRC, it's Kil'jaeden's job to find new worlds and races to corrupt (ALA the orcs) whereas it's Archimonde's job to invade the world and make it ready for Sargeras.. But my brain might just be making that up..

Nope, thats exactly what the roles of both Legion commanders were (so your brain ISN'T crazy! yay! ). Of course, with Archimonde and Sargeras both out of the picture (somewhat), the responsibility falls on big K.

[Vicious]

It was his avatar, but the fact is it was his REAL body. Metzen even said that the Eye of Sargeras was the last remaining piece of him that was left. If he was REALLY still out there, with his body and everything. Why in hell did he let Archimonde and Kil'jaeden fight for power in the Legion? Why didn't he join in the Third War? Why is Kil'jaeden the current Lord of the Legion?

When i said that it was his avatar, i was replying to Cantus post about the "general consensus", i never said that it wasn´t his real body....

[Kenzuki]

Archimonde was like a large brute. Kil'jaeden surpassed him when it came to mastery of the arcane though. Infact, there are only two beings in the world that even come close to rivaling Kil'jaeden in the ways of the Arcane.

1. Norgannon

2. Malygos

3. Azshara is pretty close.

[Vicious]

I would say that Norgannon is the ultimate spellcaster in the Warcraft universe.


1.Norgannon

2.Kil´jaeden

3.Malygos

4.Azshara (Which is impressive considering she was a simple Night elf)

[Bradford]

4.Azshara (Which is impressive considering she was a simple Night elf)

Shes Naga now, isnt she?

[Vicious]

Shes Naga now, isnt she?

A one of a kind naga.

[Kenzuki]

Kil'jaeden is very close to Norgannon in terms of spellcasting ability according to Shadows & Light. so your list makes sense.

[ARM3481]

Aszhara does rank pretty high up as far as spellcasting ability, though she was portrayed in War of the Ancients as somewhat dense and self-centered, and sublimely convince of her own infallibility, Kil'Jaeden seems the sort to enter any situation assuming that things might go wrong and having a dozen contingency plans in place. Though not stupid, Azshara may be very limited in her abilities solely because she feels no need to improve her skills, while it's almost a certainty that Kil'Jaeden's constantly honing his.

[Kerrah]

IIRC, it's Kil'jaeden's job to find new worlds and races to corrupt (ALA the orcs) whereas it's Archimonde's job to invade the world and make it ready for Sargeras.. But my brain might just be making that up..
I was saying my thing becouse i think Kenzukis reason (Sargearas Does not live becouse he wasnt in the third war.) is stupid.

[Kerrah]

it wasnt that the pantheon just made some thingy with their finger.
there was a great war between. from what ive seen, heard and read, titans have died fighting these old gods. correct me if im wrong.
At least nobody of the Pantheon died, and Comparing a normal titan to Sargeras is like comparing a Peon to an Ogre... Panthron member-Sargeras is more like a Grunt-Ogre thing...

[Kenzuki]

Sargeras did not create an Avatar in the way that a god does. He did not create a avatar while he himself was in the Nether watching it from afar. Nor did he stay in the Nether when it was slain by the Guardian. He weakened himself to enter the portal the warlocks had summoned for him. So while he was weaker than he normally would be, he still was in Azeroth. It's called an "Avatar" because it was not him at his best. The ruined body was placed within an undersea vault by Aegwynn, while his spirit entered into her womb to wait.

According to the official history when Medivh died Sargeras' spirit was banished to the Abyss. There are those who say that his spirit still lingers somewhere, lusting for a way to return to the world.

The Eye of Sargeras was all that was left of his corporal body as per Metzen. When Illidan failed in his spellcasting to strike at the Icecrown Glacier, the Eye was destroyed.

So with Sargeras we have his body destroyed, and his spirit banished to the Abyss. So unless something drastic happens, he's gone......

[Creative]

I dont think they are just gonna mark Sargeras dead and go on...
I am quite sure he will return, in some form.

Edit: Quites isnt a word ~.~

[Kenzuki]

I dont think they are just gonna mark Sargeras dead and go on...
I am quites sure he will return, in some form.

Like I said. Some say that his spirit still lingers on. This is Blizzard's way of saying "Hey, we might use this guy again someday so PHAER!" but the fact is the Demonlord did die, it's just his spirit is alot harder to keep down :P

[Kerrah]

There are those who say that his spirit still lingers somewhere, lusting for a way to return to the world.
Hm... "Return to The World".... Doesnt that just mean he just lusts to get to Azeroth and do what was left undone at The War of The Ancients. I mean there must still be at least some power in Nordrassil still, that kind of power doesnt just vanish without leaving some destruction behind.

ps. And i know Nordrassil didnt exist at The War of The Ancients, it just is all thats left of The Well of Ethernity.

[Kerrah]

OH! Just remembered, how do you explain the fact that Gul'Dan saw Sargeras at His tomb! If that would have been some last piece of Sargeras' soul that was bound to his "eye", it would have warped to Gul'Dans skull propably after his death.

Hmmm... That would mean that ALOT of people would have Sargeras-taint, Khadgar, Ner'Zhul, Illidan...

But anyway, i think Sargeras must be powerful enough to cast his form to "Haw-haw" at Gul'Dan at The Broken Isles all the way from "The Abyss". That would require him to still have alot more power than any mortal can get.

[Vicious]

Sargeras did not create an Avatar in the way that a god does. He did not create a avatar while he himself was in the Nether watching it from afar. Nor did he stay in the Nether when it was slain by the Guardian. He weakened himself to enter the portal the warlocks had summoned for him. So while he was weaker than he normally would be, he still was in Azeroth. It's called an "Avatar" because it was not him at his best.


Exactly, that was what caused all the confusion i think, a lot of things in Warcraft are not explained to the detail and when they change parts on lore it gets even more confusing.


Now if we only could get status on Awegynn to try to see how "weak" Sargeras was.

[Creative]

Hmm, that makes me wonder.. I wonder how strong Medivh and Aegwynn really was. Aegwynn was able to overthrow the avatar of Sargeras, and Medivh was even more powerful!

[Kerrah]

Its just a matter of time before Kenzuki comes to flame me about my comment at the end of the first page.

[Kenzuki]

Medivh was a powerhouse according to his stats in Shadows & Light. Despite his lower power rating he can still defeat Archimonde, with ease, hell he could simply banish him from Azeroth rather than outright kill him. He'd have a harder time with Kil'jaeden, but he could still win I think. Aegwynn is said to have been the greatest Guardian, so I'de say she might have been a little more powerful than Medivh was. Off hand I'de say Sargeras' Avatar was about as powerful as Archimonde or Kil'jaeden off hand. Also given Gul'dan was so close to death and in a broken state of mind, perhaps he merely thought he saw Sargeras? Or this might have just been a random piece of him left near the Eye.

Here is the quote about Sargeras.

"As Medivh died, the portion of Sargeras's spirit that had possessed him was released and swiftly dispersed.

Many believe that Sargeras's spirit yet endures, somewhere-hungering for revenge against the only world ever to withstand the Burning Legion's might..."- Shadows & Light Page 123.

[Vicious]

Yeah, in terms of spell power Mediv would be in 5th place making him the only non-eternal being in that list, but he´s the ultimate demon killer because of his guardian status, he would be an even match to Archimonde and Kil´jaeden to a lesser extent.

[Kenzuki]

Yeah, in terms of spell power Mediv would be in 5th place making him the only non-eternal being in that list, but he´s the ultimate demon killer because of his guardian status, he would be an even match to Archimonde and Kil´jaeden to a lesser extent.

Medivh was also an Eternal Vicious.

[Creative]

Strange... I thought that the Medivh, boosted with some of Sargeras AND some of Aegwynn's power would be stronger than Aegwynn.

[Tysar]

His powers weren't boosted by Sargeras' powers. Basically, Aegwynn passed her powers onto Medivh, and all Sargeras' spirit did was possess him.

[Kenzuki]

Strange... I thought that the Medivh, boosted with some of Sargeras AND some of Aegwynn's power would be stronger than Aegwynn.

Sargeras only used Medivh's powers, he didn't give Medivh anything. All of Sargeras' power was in his body, which is why he wanted it back.

[Vicious]

Medivh was also an Eternal Vicious.

I checked it again and he indeed wasn´t....passed my mind, sorry.

But wasn´t Medivh better then Aegwynn? I thought that was the whole point.

[Kenzuki]

I checked it again and he indeed wasn´t....passed my mind, sorry.

But wasn´t Medivh better then Aegwynn? I thought that was the whole point.

Are you saying he wasn't an Eternal? I don't understand the first part of your post.

Also yes, Medivh was destined to be greater than Aegwynn.

[Vicious]

Are you saying he wasn't an Eternal? I don't understand the first part of your post.

That was a typo....sorry again , i haven´t slept much lately.



But about Medivh/Awegynn, so we take it that Medivh is better then his mother right?

I mean, his warlock levels were his own right?
He might have gained them with Sargeras inhabiting his body almost all his life.

[Kenzuki]

That was a typo....sorry again , i haven´t slept much lately.



But about Medivh/Awegynn, so we take it that Medivh is better then his mother right?

I mean, his warlock levels were his own right?
He might have gained them with Sargeras inhabiting his body almost all his life.

The warlock levels were his own when he began to start delving into necromancy and fel magic. He was possessed while he was studying such magic, but he had some control over himself. He was basically mad while in this state.