Turalyon.... Morgrain?

[ScytheRexx]

Just a little theory, but I am reading over the entire Ashbringer Questline, including the event at Scarlet Monestary, where Morgrain Sr. kills Morgrain Jr and "cures" Fairbanks of his undeath, turning him back into a regular human once agian.

Fairbanks then talks about how Morgrain Sr. was betrayed by his son, Morgrain Jr, you basically gave the Grand Crusader over to the might of Kel'Thuzad, stabbing his father through the heart with the Ashbringer, which corrupted the blade with hate, but also made Morgrain Sr. merge with the sword.

Fairbanks says that the Corrupted Ashbringer is beyond redemption, but that another one can be reforged by the bloodline of Morgrain. He tells you to meet with the son of Morgrain, who you think means the dead Morgrain Jr, but then fairbanks is more clear in what he means...

<High Inquisitor Fairbanks shakes his head>
No, orc! Only one of his son is dead. The other still lives.
<High Inquisitor Fairbanks points to the sky>
Outland...Go and seek him.

Now Morgrain was known as one of the most old and powerful Paladins imaginable, able to take on thousand of Scourge by himself. We never learned what the last name of Turalyon, and so I am curious... could the great Paladin leader be the son of the old and powerful Morgrain? I thought that by the timeline this didn't seem possible, but then I remembered that Turalyon was young when he went into the Dark Portal, and Morgrain could be considered a more elder Paladin, possibly in his 50-60 when he died, meaning Turalyon could have been born while Morgrain was still a young Knight. I need to recheck all my sources on Turalyon just to get any more hints, but he is the only person I can even think of that would be powerful enough a Paladin to reforge the Ashbringer.

I also find it interesting that Fairbanks, a full-blown undead priest, that supposedly turned because he was infected while buried under hundreds of scourge bodies during betrayal of Morgrain Sr. was cured and turned back into a human with a wave of the hand by the now revived Morgrain Sr. The Forsaken might actually be cleansed someday... that is... if they even want to be cleansed anymore :D

This is all just theory, other then the official Ashbringer Quest quotes, so don't take it as fact, just thought it would be something to spin my head around.

[Kerrah]

I also find it interesting that Fairbanks, a full-blown undead priest, that supposedly turned because he was infected while buried under hundreds of scourge bodies during betrayal of Morgrain Sr. was cured and turned back into a human with a wave of the hand by the now revived Morgrain Sr. The Forsaken might actually be cleansed someday... that is... if they even want to be cleansed anymore :D
Who even said he was a scourge?

I got the idea Mograine JR cursed him to look like one so he couldn't show his face on the face of earth.

[Yuber8900]

That's all fake, bring it up again and bad things will happen to you.

[Kenzuki]

Turalyon was one of the first Knights of the Lordaeron to be chosen by Uther to become a paladin, so he's likely been a paladin just as long as Mograine was. It's also funny how Mograine seemingly cured Fairbanks of his undeath, yet when the paladins during the Third War tried to cure the plague townsfolk all they succeeded in doing was burning the flesh of the people!

Basically with all the Alliance forces who went to Outland, it doesn't have to be Turalyon honestly.

[ScytheRexx]

I know that Morgrain will not have been a Paladin BEFORE Turalyon, but I imagine it could have been a "family" deal, thus Morgrain and Turalyon would become Paladins at the same time. You know, Morgrain is a Knight, Uther comes calling, and both he, and his two sons, begin practicing the Holy Light to become some of the first Paladins.

And yes, it could just be another random Paladin, but Morgrain and the Ashbringer have a very large importance, with tons of locations and characters all interested in the weapon, even Nat Pagle and the Prince of the Shen'drelar Ancients talked about the weapon. It just seemed fitting that we might actually learn the last name of Turalyon after all these years, and that he would be the end of a age long quest to re-forge one of the greatest paladin weapons of all time.

As for Fairbanks, I don't think Morgrain is really into "cursing" people, the questline talks about how he was buried under hundreds of scourge corpses, and that after he returned to the Scarlet Monestary and warned many of the other Crusaders of what Morgrain Jr. had done (This group later became the Argent Dawn), he "hid" himself away in a secret area of the Monestary so that Morgrain would not find him, and he would continue his work of telling the truth of that day.

As for the person saying "That is all fake" you need to learn Korean, screenshots of it have been posted, including Morgrain killing his son, and the revitalized Fairbanks and all his quest dialogue. Nice try though.

[Kerrah]

As for the person saying "That is all fake" you need to learn Korean, screenshots of it have been posted, including Morgrain killing his son, and the revitalized Fairbanks and all his quest dialogue. Nice try though.
You can read Korean?

[Yuber8900]

Yep a Paladin in Warrior Tier 3 is so not fake.

[Orto]

Yep a Paladin in Warrior Tier 3 is so not fake.
Lol@you

This is a NPC, not a playable paladin. He can wear whatever blizzard wants him to wear.

[Yuber8900]

Lol@you

This is a NPC, not a playable paladin. He can wear whatever blizzard wants him to wear.

Oh yeah sure.

[Smeedle]

Well, the question really is, how does Fairbanks know who is alive in Outland and who isn't? Nobody knows if anybody from the Alliance expedition to Outland survived (Of course we know since Metzen said so, but in the Warcraft universe it's supposed to be a mystery if they survived or not). So where did Fairbanks get his information about Outland from?
(The answer is probably: From the quest designer who wrote that text and either didn't think about this question or was already thinking about the Burning Crusade expansion where the Portal to Outland is open again)

[Kerrah]

I hope the event in SM is true.

[ScytheRexx]

I was able to find the original website that this information came from, you don't have to believe me, but you should read it none the less.

http://wowwalkthroughs.free.fr/Ashbringer-Quests/Ashbringer-Quests.html

[ScytheRexx]

Oh, and another thing Fairbanks said that makes me wonder of the possiblity of Turalyon.

"Seek his son, who possesses unequaled faith and righteousness."

[ScytheRexx]

You can read Korean?

I had a bunch of Korean and Japanese friends in College, so I know a few of the words from both languages, enough to match with the translation, don't expect me to understand everything though, I still can't understand the languages audibly over half the time.

[Kerrah]

I had a bunch of Korean and Japanese friends in College, so I know a few of the words from both languages, enough to match with the translation, don't expect me to understand everything though, I still can't understand the languages audibly over half the time.
Well, thats good enough for me.

Nice triplepost btw.

[GreenEye]

I like Turalyon more with no last name/background. Makes him more badass. I mean let's face it, what badass characters in WoW have real last names?

[ScytheRexx]

I like Turalyon more with no last name/background. Makes him more badass. I mean let's face it, what badass characters in WoW have real last names?

Arthas Menethil
Illidan Stormrage
Malfurion Stormrage
Kael'thas Sunstrider
Tyrande Whisperwind
Uther Lightbringer
Grom Hellscream
Jaina Proudmoore
Kargath Bladefist
Alleria Windrunner
Kudran Wildhammer
Danath Trollbane
Anduin Lothar
Orgrim Doomhammer

etc...

Only a handful we don't know their last names, like Turalyon, and even less that we don't know their first names, like Blackhand.

[Kenzuki]

Oh, and another thing Fairbanks said that makes me wonder of the possiblity of Turalyon.

"Seek his son, who possesses unequaled faith and righteousness."

That quote does make me think of Turalyon, Scyth.

Something has me troubled about the Alliance Expedition though. How can they be on Outland when they escaped into a Rift before the planet was destroyed? Illidan sealed all the portals, so how did they get there?

[ScytheRexx]

Something has me troubled about the Alliance Expedition though. How can they be on Outland when they escaped into a Rift before the planet was destroyed? Illidan sealed all the portals, so how did they get there?

Maybe they got lost in space and time, and only recently retured? Outland is now a nexus between the Twisting Nether and the Great Dark, making it a great location for easy movement between worlds. I see Khdagar and company returning to Outland after many years lost in the cosmos, hoping that it would finally show them a way back home. That is one possibility.

Or maybe they never left, maybe they decided to forget the "escape" ending and retconned it out, nearly half of WarCraft 2 was retconned, it would not suprised me if one more part was simply removed from the history. That is another possibility.

Lastly, we only know for sure that Danath is going to be at Honor's Hold, and that we will meet the others ones at some point. Its possible that only Khadgar and a small group went through a portal, with Danath being left behind for a couple long years, and now the other heroes we will find over Outland because they are "returning" to try and save Danath and company. Just another theory.

There are many things, bit sadly I am leaning towards the retcon theory.

[Kenzuki]

They can't retcon that part! It was like the coolest part of the whole damn campaign! The Alliance Expedition made the ultimate sacrifice to save their homeworld, and that was that they destroyed the only means to return. They then picked up their wounded and waded into the swirling madness that was the Twisting Nether. If they retcon that cool part, I'll never forgive them.

I'm getting sick and tired of this damn changing, you would think that after Warcraft III they could stop.

[Timolas]

They can't retcon that part! It was like the coolest part of the whole damn campaign! The Alliance Expedition made the ultimate sacrifice to save their homeworld, and that was that they destroyed the only means to return. They then picked up their wounded and waded into the swirling madness that was the Twisting Nether. If they retcon that cool part, I'll never forgive them.

I'm getting sick and tired of this damn changing, you would think that after Warcraft III they could stop.

Why do you think I'm so pissed? :P

[Vicious]

Illidan only sealed the portals almost 30 years after they were created, Kadghar and company had more than enough time to go back into Outland.

[GreenEye]

Arthas Menethil
Illidan Stormrage
Malfurion Stormrage
Kael'thas Sunstrider
Tyrande Whisperwind
Uther Lightbringer
Grom Hellscream
Jaina Proudmoore
Kargath Bladefist
Alleria Windrunner
Kudran Wildhammer
Danath Trollbane
Anduin Lothar
Orgrim Doomhammer

etc...

Only a handful we don't know their last names, like Turalyon, and even less that we don't know their first names, like Blackhand.

None of those people are truly badass.

Kel'thuzad
Turalyon
Antonidas
Ner'zhul
Medivh
Broxigar (although he had (the red) that's more of a nickname then a lastname)

[Timolas]

None of those people are truly badass.

Kel'thuzad
Turalyon
Antonidas
Ner'zhul
Medivh
Broxigar (although he had (the red) that's more of a nickname then a lastname)

Illidan is badass. :P In his own, special way.

[ScytheRexx]

None of those people are truly badass.

Kel'thuzad
Turalyon
Antonidas
Ner'zhul
Medivh
Broxigar (although he had (the red) that's more of a nickname then a lastname)

You... dare... say that Grom Hellscream... is NOT badass?

You are out of the fan-club.

Also, Kel'thuzad and Antonidas don't hold a candle to the badassness of people like Illidan, Malfurion, Arthas, Uther, Orgrim, Anduin, etc...

Medivh, Turalyon, Ner'zhul and Broxigar definitly are awesome, but only on a similar level to half the people on my list, not above them.

The only other ones I can think of that didn't have a last name, were Khadgar and Gul'dan. Even Garona had a last name.

[Kerrah]

(although he had (the red) that's more of a nickname then a lastname)
If "Stormrage" or "Hellscream" are names, "the red" is a name.

[GreenEye]

Let me lay out my full theory here then:

There are three levels of badassness, that are connected to last names.

Level 1: A regular last name, not especially badass. Examples: Jaina Proudmoore.

Level 2: Nickname-ish last names, pretty bad ass people. Examples: Orgrim Doomhammer, Grommash Hellscream.

Level 3: No last names, badass to the core. Examples: Khadgar, Medivh, Turalyon.

[Kakwakas]

Level 2: Nickname-ish last names, pretty bad ass people. Examples: Orgrim Doomhammer, Grommash Hellscream.

I've always thought of that as more of a cultural thing than a 'nickname' thing. There are quite a few cultures in the real world in which people choose their own last names upon reaching a certain age, achieving something, or just having something out of the ordinary happen to them.

[Yuber8900]

Notice there are no SS's of a Human Fairbanks.

[Ravenclaw2099]

I've always thought of that as more of a cultural thing than a 'nickname' thing. There are quite a few cultures in the real world in which people choose their own last names upon reaching a certain age, achieving something, or just having something out of the ordinary happen to them.


That seems to be the case with most Orcs. Alot of their last names seem to come from some sort of physical trait, power or acheivement of some kind. Otherwise they are given just a first name.

[GreenEye]

Conclusion: Orcs are badass.

[Kerrah]

Conclusion of a conclusion: Blizzard failed to make a more badass race than orcs (night elves).

[GreenEye]

Yeah, there arn't manny badass nightelves.

[Yuber8900]

Jarod Shadowsong

[Timolas]

Illidan... and............................. that guy who shovels dirth in Darnassus behind the druid area.

[Kenzuki]

If "Stormrage" or "Hellscream" are names, "the red" is a name.

They are as much last names as Tailor, Baker, and Smith are to us humans. Back in the old days names, especially sir names had meanings to them. Grom's last name was Hellscream because of the terrifying battle cry he had for example.

Also, Erik the Red ring a bell?

Dude, Sir Anduin Lothar, you don't get as badass as he was, I'm sorry. He was like the greatest hero the Alliance ever had, ever.

[Timolas]

They are as much last names as Tailor, Baker, and Smith are to us humans. Back in the old days names, especially sir names had meanings to them. Grom's last name was Hellscream because of the terrifying battle cry he had for example.

Also, Erik the Red ring a bell?

Dude, Sir Anduin Lothar, you don't get as badass as he was, I'm sorry. He was like the greatest hero the Alliance ever had, ever.

Yeah Lothar was awesome... just a bit old thats all. :P I'd love to know what the whole Tome of Divinity deal was.

[Kenzuki]

Yeah Lothar was awesome... just a bit old thats all. :P I'd love to know what the whole Tome of Divinity deal was.

What do you mean "just a bit old"?

[Vicious]

He was old.

[Timolas]

He was old.

Thats pretty much about it. :p Just that he could have managed more if he was a tad younger during the Second War. Nothing to do with lack of capability or anything, thats life. And nature at work. ;p

[ScytheRexx]

I wouldn't call him "old" but he was middle-aged going on in the years. He probably had another good 20 years in him if he didn't get killed by Doomhammer.

[Yuber8900]

That lucky punk

[Kenzuki]

I wouldn't call him "old" but he was middle-aged going on in the years. He probably had another good 20 years in him if he didn't get killed by Doomhammer.

Which is funny, because Brann still doesn't believe that Doomhammer defeated him in a fair fight. He says that more than likely Lothar would have chopped him in half just like everything else in battle hehe. If you compare Doomhammer and Lothar in S&L and take away Doomhammer's eight levels of rogue which he got from hiding from Lordaeron after the Second War, you'll find out that Anduin Lothar would have been a much more experienced warrior than Doomhammer was, and Quel'Zarem is a better weapon than the Doomhammer was, plain and simple. Who knows what really happened, for all we know Orgrim could have thrown dirt in Lothar's face. I mean he wasn't exactly the most honorable warrior being his title was "The Backstabber".

[Yuber8900]

Ha, even the RPG books can be useful sometimes.

[Kerrah]

I wouldn't call him "old" but he was middle-aged going on in the years. He probably had another good 20 years in him if he didn't get killed by Doomhammer.
http://www.sonsofthestorm.com/images/metzen/WarCraft_Metzen036b.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/57/Lothar-head-shot-warcraftii-manual.jpg/200px-Lothar-head-shot-warcraftii-manual.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/97/Lothar-leading-way-from-azeroth.jpg/200px-Lothar-leading-way-from-azeroth.jpg

I think we can agree he was closer to his 60s than his 50s.

And to Kenzuki, this is exactly the same thing as in the case of Arthas VS Illidan, We may never know if "this and that hadn't happened this and that way and the other guy would have won." One person won, the other lost, thats all we need to know.

[Kenzuki]

I think Doomhammer haxxed....

[Yuber8900]

Yeah by attacking an old man who had been fighting all day.

[Kerrah]

/sigh

You guys never give up when its about "my idol is better than your idol".

[Vicious]

Actually, it´s more in the lines of "My idol is stronger than your idol".

[Yuber8900]

Lol Sargeras > all, even Arthas (hear that Kenzuli!)

[Vicious]

Lol Sargeras > all, even Arthas (hear that Kenzuli!)

OH SHI-

[Kerrah]

Well, Sargeras is my idol of all the Warcraft Characters but still...

...Doomhammer > Lothar.

[Ravenclaw2099]

I mean he wasn't exactly the most honorable warrior being his title was "The Backstabber".

Not the most honorable? The only reason he was called the Backstabber is because he killed Blackhand while under his command. But he Killed Blackhand as a part of his plan to overthrow and put down the Shadow Council, which was responsible for the corruption of the Orcs. In doing so, he intiated the first steps to getting the Orcs back into their Shamanisitc heritage (No Shadow Council, no further corruption of Orgrim's people, save for the blood pact). Backstabber? Yes, but a Backstabber for a damn honorable reason.

And as I mentioned before, Doomhammer more than likely proved himself in battle as much as Lothar. But we were given far more information on Lothar's background than Orgrim's, so of course it would seem like he was a better fighter. For all we know Orgrim could have led the Thunderlord Clan to countless victories against some of the clans on Draenor (probably including some now extinct clans).

[Kerrah]

For all we know Orgrim could have led the Thunderlord Clan to countless victories against some of the clans on Draenor (probably including some now extinct clans).
The Flowerpicker Clan!

[ScytheRexx]

I think we can agree he was closer to his 60s than his 50s.

Well it depends on how you look at those pictures.

Lothar was aging, we can agree on that, but he was also the leader of the Brotherhood of the Horse and had to live through countless battles and even a few months trapped in the Deadmines. The pictures only really show that he is...

1) Balding.

2) Looked a bit "wrinkled".

Now balding can happen at any age, I have a friend that started to bald when he was 20. As for the wrinkles, I don't consider them wrinkles. Lothar has gone through countless battles, so the imperfect look Metzen was going for I believe was supposed to show that he was a battle-hardened warrior and not some picture perfect knight.

I think at the end of WarCraft 1, Lothar was in his late 40s going on 50. Why? He was a childhood friend of Medivh and King Llane, both of which were only in their 40s at the time of their deaths during the First War. It would seem odd that Lothar would be 15 years older then his best "childhood" friends.

[GreenEye]

Lothar was badass, but the thing was that he had no special "powers", he was just a damn good fighter with a sword.

[Kerrah]

I noticed it yesterday myself that the birth of Medivh is 45 years before Warcraft one. So if the first war lasted 7 years (or whatever it was) he was over 50 when it ended.

edit: If we think Medihv, Lothar and Llane were born in the same year (which i do).

[ScytheRexx]

I noticed it yesterday myself that the birth of Medivh is 45 years before Warcraft one. So if the first war lasted 7 years (or whatever it was) he was over 50 when it ended.

The First War lasted two years as of the updated timeline. The Second War happened 6 years after the begining of the First War.

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/story/timeline.html

So he would be over fifty by the time of the Second War, but not the first.

[Kerrah]

My mistake, i though somebody on these boards say the first war lasted for over 5 years.

[Timolas]

Then the info on the manual is changed date wise - read through it recently and there were 10 years I think, before the Horde attacked again after their flop at Stormwind the first time. During that time there was the Blackhammer rise to power etc..
Well, manuals are pretty outdated now ey.

[ScytheRexx]

Then the info on the manual is changed date wise - read through it recently and there were 10 years I think, before the Horde attacked again after their flop at Stormwind the first time. During that time there was the Blackhammer rise to power etc..
Well, manuals are pretty outdated now ey.

Depends which manual you are reading. The ones for WarCraft 1 and 2 have been almost completely replaced. Remember the commentary in the WarCraft 2 Manual on how Aegwynn warned King Llane of her sons betrayal? Never happened, she instead went into exile and the role was replaced with Garona and Khadgar.

Speaking of Garona, her entire commentary in the WarCraft 1 Manual is also pretty much completely written out, as she had different motive and origins since that time, including the fact she was no longer half-human, and the fact orcs are no longer shown as stupid as she original decribed them "grog fall down, grog see tree, grog smash tree!".

The timeline has the dark portal opening in the year 0AP, the First War immediatly starting with the orcs destroying farms and other human outposts before attacking Stormwind, which failed. Then they regrouped, and two years following that time, they finally won the war and razed Stormwind, in the year 2AP. This is when Lothar escaped, went to Lordaeron with the refugees, and started forming the Alliance to fight the Horde once they invasion came. It was four years since the First War, six years total since the Dark Portal was oppened, in the year 6AP. The Horde is defeated two years after this in the year 8AP, the events of Beyond the Dark Portal occur in the year 9AP, and then finally the Horde is finished when the Dragonmaw get defeated in the year 10AP.

This is all going by the new timeline.

[Yuber8900]

Much hate to blizzard.

[Kenzuki]

Oh, nevermind Scyth I see what you ment hehe.

[ScytheRexx]

Oh, nevermind Scyth I see what you ment hehe.

What did you think I meant? I never saw whatever you edited out of this post, haha.