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Warlock
09-01-2006, 10:46 AM
The people behind the Illidan Stormrage statue at the Blizzard booth of this year's e3, Games Conference, etc (basically anywhere Blizzard had a booth) have put up a page <A HREF="http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=2526801&blogID=120538300&MyToken=a573da78-4b3a-49cf-bd17-e6ec627e7238">showing the process of creating the statue</a>. It's mostly a pictorial but it's pretty cool. There is also a new piece of artwork up at the top (first picture) which the statue was based off.

Vicious
09-01-2006, 11:07 AM
Great piece of artwork, finally one that gives him justice.

Wulfang
09-01-2006, 11:10 AM
I just wonder why newer artwork depicting Illidan makes him look like an evil soul-sucking demon. I think it's Blizzard's way of saying "I'm evil! So join with another 39 people and come kill me for epixx!"

Creative
09-01-2006, 11:12 AM
I just wonder why newer artwork depicting Illidan makes him look like an evil soul-sucking demon. I think it's Blizzard's way of saying "I'm evil! So join with another 39 people and come kill me for epixx!"

24 people xD

Timolas
09-01-2006, 11:13 AM
Time isn't making him more beautiful.
Great art!

<3 The Betrayer.

Vicious
09-01-2006, 11:19 AM
I just wonder why newer artwork depicting Illidan makes him look like an evil soul-sucking demon. I think it's Blizzard's way of saying "I'm evil! So join with another 39 people and come kill me for epixx!"

This one doesn´t, that´s why i like it.

ScytheRexx
09-01-2006, 12:23 PM
Illidan went insane! He looks insane, and thats all that matters in the new artwork.

Its really well down, both the artwork and the sculpture.

Kenzuki
09-01-2006, 07:59 PM
Maybe because he IS an insane, evil-looking, soul sucking demon now? Get with the program people, the old Illidan that went all soft around Tyrande is gone, this is what you have left.

Without all that crap, he's become cool, though not as cool as Death Knight Arthas.

Kakwakas
09-01-2006, 09:36 PM
I still think of Illidan and Arthas as equals in coolness, but Illidan needs a power boost to catch up.

Yuber8900
09-01-2006, 10:25 PM
Maybe because he IS an insane, evil-looking, soul sucking demon now? Get with the program people, the old Illidan that went all soft around Tyrande is gone, this is what you have left.

That is so why Tyrande is dead right now.

Tularis
09-02-2006, 04:16 AM
Illidan needs to find the skull of sargares or kil`jaedan or something and consume that if he wants to catch up :P The race has already ended and Illidan was lagging around the middle bickering with his brother and inhaling the fart whiffs of Azshara.

Wulfang
09-02-2006, 05:13 AM
He should have just absorbed the Eye of Sargeras instead of channeling his spell of destruction through it :rolleyes:

Tysar
09-02-2006, 06:02 AM
I think he wanted to do that but said something like "that it's power is so great he would be unable to control it". That's why he used it as a one-time source to complete a spell which would destroy the Lich King and make Kil'Jaeden happy... and that would grant Illidan all the power he seeked.

Creative
09-02-2006, 12:50 PM
Or would he? I think Kil'jaeden isnt the type to give people more power, not after the Lich King failure.
I think he would dispose of Illidan after he had suceeded, so he didnt risk of Illidan turning against him.

Tysar
09-02-2006, 01:42 PM
If Illidan succeeded, Kil'Jaeden would be content to make Illidan his right hand, but he is no fool and he would know that Illidan still has feelings for Tyrande and he would have doubts if was ordered to attack the Night Elves... therefore, instead of just giving him a large power boost, he would give him power little by little and corrupt him, send him on missions to other besieged worlds to commit genocide and turn him into what he is now through different means... evil, soul sucking devastation machine.

Kenzuki
09-02-2006, 02:46 PM
Illidan won't ever catch up to Arthas now, it's not possible. Arthas has become an Eternal, he's the closest thing to a god the series has. Also, Illidan said that Sargeras' power was "beyond him", and he could only try to use the Eye as a focus. Either way, he lacked Arthas' style. I mean come on, what lines does Illidan have that people remember.

"Why doesn't anyone stay dead anymore?" -Arthas.

Timolas
09-02-2006, 03:22 PM
Illidan won't ever catch up to Arthas now, it's not possible. Arthas has become an Eternal, he's the closest thing to a god the series has. Also, Illidan said that Sargeras' power was "beyond him", and he could only try to use the Eye as a focus. Either way, he lacked Arthas' style. I mean come on, what lines does Illidan have that people remember.

"Why doesn't anyone stay dead anymore?" -Arthas.

Illidan doesn't really need fancy lines to be remembered (neither does Arthas). Illidan has made his many impacts upon the world already.
To be honest Arthas' style is why I hate him. I don't dig his 'casual' style, which isn't my view of a villain. :P A darn shame the Lich King got ruined by his personality being dominant. Anyway, the changes have made Illidan cooler to me, and he was still cool to me before that.
Everyone simply exaggerates everything bad about him... I mean come on. Most of you make it seem like half his lines are him whining and moaning, and they are not.
As for catching up with Arthas, no, not really. He can't. Nothing much can, but Illidan is very powerful nonetheless. If Malfurion, Maiev, and ironically, Kael, didn't barge in and ruin that spell, the Lich King would be destroyed. The world would be screwed, but hell, that wasn't Illidan's concern.
My point is this; he nearly WTFpwned the Lich King twice. Who else can boast about that? He's been the Scouge's greatest threat besides the Burning Legion. He's done way more than loads of others have.

That is of course, imo. Just that if all of you are free to give yours I think I should be free to give mine as well I guess. :p

Yuber8900
09-02-2006, 05:00 PM
My point is this; he nearly WTFpwned the Lich King twice. Who else can boast about that?

Ahem,

Timolas
09-02-2006, 05:15 PM
Ahem,

I said nearly, not did. xD

Kenzuki
09-02-2006, 06:36 PM
Almost only counts in Horseshoes.

Clypso
09-02-2006, 08:51 PM
And grenades.

Yuber8900
09-02-2006, 10:38 PM
And many things that cause firey death.

Timolas
09-03-2006, 06:18 AM
<---- Confused.

Kerrah
09-03-2006, 08:05 AM
<---- Confused.
They meant that "Almost is as good as not at all."

Creative
09-03-2006, 11:04 AM
Oh, okay.
Awesome.

Timolas
09-03-2006, 12:17 PM
They meant that "Almost is as good as not at all."

They are wrong.

Creative
09-03-2006, 12:19 PM
"I almost died" vs "I died"

... No-brainer, right?

Timolas
09-03-2006, 12:20 PM
"I almost died" vs "I died"

... No-brainer, right?

Creative vs Timolas.
:D
No brainer right?
Just kidding. :P

Kerrah
09-03-2006, 12:21 PM
"I almost died" vs "I died"

... No-brainer, right?
Well, ill just say that they are almost wrong.

Creative
09-03-2006, 12:24 PM
Well, ill just say that they are almost wrong.

I almost cared!
And you almost made a point!

Timolas
09-03-2006, 12:26 PM
I almost cared!
And you almost made a point!

You almost scored a point!

Anyway, they're just saying I'm wrong on that because they don't want Illidan to be seen in a good light. :P I know I'm right on this one, 100%. Illidan nearly destroyed the Lich King twice. He didn't make it, but he nearly did. It takes more than what you make Illidan out to be to achieve that.

Kenzuki
09-03-2006, 12:41 PM
No it's like "I almost killed the Lich King, oh but he survived." It's the same thing as saying "I failed to kill the Lich King, not once, but TWICE!"

Timolas
09-03-2006, 12:45 PM
No it's like "I almost killed the Lich King, oh but he survived." It's the same thing as saying "I failed to kill the Lich King, not once, but TWICE!"
Half glass full or glass half empty?

Illidan got extremely close to achieving his goal. My point is; nobody else got that far, and the Lich King has a lot of enemies as you know.

Kenzuki
09-03-2006, 12:55 PM
Half glass full or glass half empty?

Illidan got extremely close to achieving his goal. My point is; nobody else got that far, and the Lich King has a lot of enemies as you know.

He only got that far because Kil'jaeden didn't destroy him for failing the first time, and the blood elves and naga were the ones who died for him to even get that far. Besides, he never really had a chance, as Ner'zhul had already forseen the outcome of the Battle, he would be victorious.

Timolas
09-03-2006, 01:32 PM
He only got that far because Kil'jaeden didn't destroy him for failing the first time, and the blood elves and naga were the ones who died for him to even get that far. Besides, he never really had a chance, as Ner'zhul had already forseen the outcome of the Battle, he would be victorious.

Somehow I knew you'd say something like that. :P

Arthas didn't exactly single handedly bring down Lordaeron did he? Kel'thuzad didn't spread the plague on his own? Mal'ganis oversaw it and he had the whole Cult of the Damned. Arthas had... hell.. the SCOURGE behind him!
Illidan had.. not even all... some of the remnants of the Blood Elves, and a force of Naga that wasn't even from Azshara, just from some Sea Witch.
Not only that, he defeated Magtheridon, King of Outland, a mighty Pit Lord who said Illidan had great power.
Kil'jaeden could have killed Illidan... obviously. Kil'jaeden could kill Arthas if faced with him.

Illidan achieved a lot with limited resources. Whatever was in the Lich King's knowledge bank, Illidan was still one step away from destroying him. He didn't weaken his defenses for Illidan did he?

:P

Kenzuki
09-03-2006, 06:10 PM
Well, think of it like this. Had Ner'zhul not become weak and under attack by Illidan, would Arthas have come to Northrend and merged with Ner'zhul like he wanted all along? Arthas was content to rebuild Lordaeron in his image and set up a great bastion. Remember, Ner'zhul weakened HIMSELF when he punched Frostmourne through the Frozen Throne for Arthas to find.

Tularis
09-03-2006, 08:09 PM
Hm thats a good point. The Lich King didn't call Arthas until he was weakened and knew Illidan was coming for him. That does seem to imply that LK was basically forced to merge for his own survival purposes, so in a way Illidan just hurt the world alot more by trying to destroy the Frozen throne :P

Timolas
09-04-2006, 04:59 AM
Well, think of it like this. Had Ner'zhul not become weak and under attack by Illidan, would Arthas have come to Northrend and merged with Ner'zhul like he wanted all along? Arthas was content to rebuild Lordaeron in his image and set up a great bastion. Remember, Ner'zhul weakened HIMSELF when he punched Frostmourne through the Frozen Throne for Arthas to find.

If the Lich King commands, I'm sure Arthas would obey. :P If you think he didn't have that authority over his pets then that's kind of unusual.

Whatever the case, Illidan still achieved what he did.

Creative
09-04-2006, 06:42 AM
"I almost killed the Lich King, oh but he survived.""

No, because the Lich King was already dead xP
/lamejoke

Yuber8900
09-04-2006, 07:52 AM
What should Illidan have done? Wait for the Lich King to restore himself to full power then call Arthas or try and strike him when he was weakened?

Kenzuki
09-04-2006, 08:05 AM
The Lich King couldn't restore the power he was losing, which he himself caused when he pushed Frostmourne out for Arthas to find. This was all planned by Ner'zhul from the start. All Illidan did was help bring about the events that would free the Lich King.

Timolas
09-04-2006, 10:11 AM
The Lich King couldn't restore the power he was losing, which he himself caused when he pushed Frostmourne out for Arthas to find. This was all planned by Ner'zhul from the start. All Illidan did was help bring about the events that would free the Lich King.

I don't see how he helped bring them about, considering the merging didn't require a powerful army crushing the Scourge.

Kenzuki
09-04-2006, 11:12 AM
They didn't crush the Scourge, far from it. Consider this, all those naga and blood elven corpses sitting at the base of the Icecrown Glacier, looks like they will all serve a new master now.

Timolas
09-04-2006, 11:44 AM
They didn't crush the Scourge, far from it. Consider this, all those naga and blood elven corpses sitting at the base of the Icecrown Glacier, looks like they will all serve a new master now.

They were crushing the Scourge till Arthas arrived and wounded Illidan.
Although all the coprses will be used to make up for numbers lost, Illidan's armies were never really huge, so I'm sure the Scourge lost more than it gained when it comes to troops.

Tularis
09-04-2006, 05:40 PM
I seriously seriously doubt the Lich King gives a toss about the undead he lost that day. While his army isn't limitless like the Burning legion, there is a damn lot of it, and saying he lost more then he gained that day doesn't mean a thing, because there's still alot more where they came from. Not only that, he is immortal, if it takes a year or two longer for his plans to bear fruit, I am sure he can manage :P

What Illidan should have done is stop being a selfish greedy bastard a couple of thousand years ago, but thats beside the point. The fact of the matter is, he only cared about the Lich king because Kil`jaedan forced him to care. He wasn't out trying to save the world, he was out trying to save his own skin and continue his undying thirst for power.

Kenzuki
09-04-2006, 07:07 PM
They were crushing the Scourge till Arthas arrived and wounded Illidan.
Although all the coprses will be used to make up for numbers lost, Illidan's armies were never really huge, so I'm sure the Scourge lost more than it gained when it comes to troops.

As long as there are corpses around, bones, and so forth. His armies are practically limitless. They also do not experience pain, fear, they all do as they are told. Unlike demons, they are the perfect soldiers.

Yuber8900
09-04-2006, 09:52 PM
As long as there are corpses around, bones, and so forth. His armies are practically limitless. They also do not experience pain, fear, they all do as they are told. Unlike demons, they are the perfect soldiers.

Demons only fear what should be feared.

Timolas
09-05-2006, 03:53 AM
I seriously seriously doubt the Lich King gives a toss about the undead he lost that day. While his army isn't limitless like the Burning legion, there is a damn lot of it, and saying he lost more then he gained that day doesn't mean a thing, because there's still alot more where they came from. Not only that, he is immortal, if it takes a year or two longer for his plans to bear fruit, I am sure he can manage :P

What Illidan should have done is stop being a selfish greedy bastard a couple of thousand years ago, but thats beside the point. The fact of the matter is, he only cared about the Lich king because Kil`jaedan forced him to care. He wasn't out trying to save the world, he was out trying to save his own skin and continue his undying thirst for power.

Hmmm, that wasn't my point, so that is kind of off topic. :P It's not about crippling blows to the Scourge; it is that Illidan achieved far more than any other rival the Lich King has ever had, and he's done the most damage to the Scourge so far with limited resources and time.
Thank you for your contribution. Have a nice day.

Also, undead aren't the perfect soldiers, because they are generally weak with the exception of their leaders, and demons don't exactly wet themselves with fear, and have never gotten close to it. The mindless heap of smelly rotten zombies isn't exactly more organised than a demon army either. They are powerful, more numerous than the Scourge, and a demon created the Lich King anyway, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about, but conveniently we've started a new debate. Fire away.

Kerrah
09-05-2006, 05:35 AM
Also, undead aren't the perfect soldiers, because they are generally weak with the exception of their leaders, and demons don't exactly wet themselves with fear, and have never gotten close to it. The mindless heap of smelly rotten zombies isn't exactly more organised than a demon army either. They are powerful, more numerous than the Scourge, and a demon created the Lich King anyway, but that has nothing to do with what we were talking about, but conveniently we've started a new debate. Fire away.
Varimathras anyone?

Yuber8900
09-05-2006, 06:54 AM
Varimathras anyone?

Not often at any rate, he's not the best example either since it was only to save his life.

Hell the demons in The Sundering fled before the Demi-Gods at first but then they attacked back after Archimonde burned them gwahahahahaha DIE YUBER-ONEE-SAN!

Timolas
09-05-2006, 08:28 AM
Well, demons can feel fear I didn't say they don't, but when you compare them to, say, gnomes, or any other mortal race, I mean really. ;)
The Demi-gods are dead anyway. :P Veangance has been achieved.

Varimathras was a moist Dreadlord. -_- As Balnazzar said, he doesn't even deserve to call himself Nathrezim for his betrayal.
Although they say he might be working with Balnazzar, I heard all the quotes exchanged and it really doesn't sound like he had any secret going. He betray Detheroc and caused the keep to fall, which wasn't his most "hey bro I'm sowy" of schemes. Even if he let Balnazzar survive on purpose, he ain't my favourite of Dreadlords. His cowering to Sylvanas was pretty lame.

EDIT: Faced in similar sitiuations, Detheroc and Balnazzar didn't cry themselves into submission.

Kenzuki
09-05-2006, 11:14 AM
Well the Legion might be unlimited in the Nether, but on Azeroth the Lich King could get more soldiers potentially then the Legion could. And when the dead fall, he can just reraise them as some other form of life, when demons fall, they stay down usually. And like I said, a swarm of ghouls could overwhelm an Infernal me thinks, not to mention Frostwyrms and Destroyers who eat mana.

Timolas
09-05-2006, 11:21 AM
Well the Legion might be unlimited in the Nether, but on Azeroth the Lich King could get more soldiers potentially then the Legion could. And when the dead fall, he can just reraise them as some other form of life, when demons fall, they stay down usually. And like I said, a swarm of ghouls could overwhelm an Infernal me thinks, not to mention Frostwyrms and Destroyers who eat mana.

Hey, the Scourge is powerful, there is no doubt about that. ;)
It wouldn't be an easy war, or a short one. In the long run though, the demons have more numbers and are introducing new troops all the time, and they have agents on Azeroth already.
The Scourge is a greater threat to Azeroth at the moment, but if the Legion managed to launch another full scale invasion with steady backup, their limitless numbers would eventually prevail.
A swarm of Ghouls might overwhelm an Infernal, but there really would have to be a load of them, since they need to get up real close and personal, and Infernals are flaming, and in real life their flames would be a little more potent than ingame. Considering Ghouls aren't protected from raw demonic flames like that they would burn quite a bit. Of course Frostwyrms could take care of Infernals from above, but then Eredar Warlocks could do some magic tricks, etc.
A long and costly war for both fronts if you ask me, but the Burning Legion are literally Warcraft's hosts of hell; the Prime Evils, etc. :p

Kenzuki
09-05-2006, 12:10 PM
That's the point, the Legion has to summon in its troops, the Scourge doesn't.

Brann made a rough estimate about the size of the undead troops at Icecrown, and that was over 250,000 undead! That's more than the populations of Stormwind, Ironforge, Darnassus, Thunderbluff, the Nndercity and Orgrimmar combined!

Yuber8900
09-05-2006, 05:18 PM
That's the point, the Legion has to summon in its troops, the Scourge doesn't.

Brann made a rough estimate about the size of the undead troops at Icecrown, and that was over 250,000 undead! That's more than the populations of Stormwind, Ironforge, Darnassus, Thunderbluff, the Nndercity and Orgrimmar combined!

Doesn't Stormwind have 60,00 High Elf Refugees alone? I find your numbers terribly off.

Anyways most of the things killed by the demons are turned into piles of limbs, you can't raise a body if there's no body to raise.

Timolas
09-05-2006, 06:30 PM
What I don't get is the number of Scourge. Where did they get all those bodies in such a short time? It's not like they've been cleansing the world; technically the north of the Eastern Kingdoms and Northrend. That can't possibly give them such supermassive numbers of undead.
Any explanation?

Anyway, haven't seen any undead demons so far, so the Scourge's main advantage seems pretty useless against the Legion.

Tularis
09-05-2006, 06:36 PM
The Burning Legion can only enter through the Dark Portal, which puts them at a serious disadvantage. It would be quite easy to bottle that up. Sure they have some forces and agents scattered about, but none worthy of posing even a meager threat to the Scourge. If the Legion managed to get enough of a force over here, they could probably do something about the Lich King, but I seriously doubt he is going to let them do that. After all, he knows Kil`jaedan, and he also knows he is high on "must die" list.

Timolas
09-05-2006, 06:40 PM
Archimonde and the whole crew he enjoyed commanding in the Third War didn't come via the Dark Portal you know. Besides, Kil'jaeden is stronger than the Lich King, and he could deal with him when it came down to that last final desperate conflict.

Kenzuki
09-05-2006, 06:54 PM
The RPG team has officially confirmed that the listed number of Stormwind's population of 200,000 was a typ and it's supposed to be 20,000. This would put it within range of the other Capitols who have around 20,000 or so.

Yuber8900
09-05-2006, 06:55 PM
The Burning Legion can only enter through the Dark Portal, which puts them at a serious disadvantage. It would be quite easy to bottle that up. Sure they have some forces and agents scattered about, but none worthy of posing even a meager threat to the Scourge. If the Legion managed to get enough of a force over here, they could probably do something about the Lich King, but I seriously doubt he is going to let them do that. After all, he knows Kil`jaedan, and he also knows he is high on "must die" list.

Supreme Mode Kazzak would shred through the scourage like Butter.

Timolas
09-05-2006, 07:00 PM
Supreme Mode Kazzak would shred through the scourage like Butter.

Kazzak is freaking awesome. Not only is he huge, wielding a demonically charged warblade, but with every creature that dies around him he becomes stronger. That's why he soloed Stormwind, he drained the lives of all the newbs and all those hapless fools he came across.
Kazzack may not be a match for Arthas or anything; but he sure as hell is a mean mother; stealing the powers of his victims to make him an unstoppable juggernaught. Imagine he killed some really powerful individuals, that'd really buff him up.

To my favourite quotes is Kazzack's war cry:
"For the Legion! For Kil'jaeden!"
Or was it the other way round. Anyway, whateva! :D

Kenzuki
09-05-2006, 07:04 PM
The Anub'Rekhan would wtfpwn Kazzak, because he turns corpses into scarabs which gank you!

Timolas
09-05-2006, 07:05 PM
Kazzack would kill the scarabs, and their power would add on to his own. :D Then he'd step on Anub'Rekhan, or impale the bug with his huge sword!
(He could kill the scarabs with that blast of death that cannot be avoided and targets every last living enemy in the area)

EDIT: I don't like how this debate is going. :( Sounds like one of those endless char vs char debates.

Yuber8900
09-05-2006, 07:11 PM
EDIT: I don't like how this debate is going. :( Sounds like one of those endless char vs char debates.

Those debates are the cornerstone of Kenzuli and I's post counts. Respect them and maybe one day you will reach over 100 posts Salomit.

Anyways the scarabs would just feed Kazzak who could WTFpwn any other raidboss like lightning except Vael and his cheap ass Burning adreniline.

Timolas
09-05-2006, 07:15 PM
Very well Mage, I will participate in this activity.

Kazzack gets +5 points just because he's nearly naked compared to other Doomguards. And because he rocks0rz my sockz0rz!!11

Tularis
09-05-2006, 08:07 PM
Your comparing Anub`arak to KazzaK? Anub would decimate him easily, Supreme Mode or not. This is probably the highest ranking Scourge member outside Kel`thuzad we're talking about here, not a random Crypt Lord :P And Kil`jaedan is too cautious to attack the Lich King personally. Sure he may be more powerful, but as we have seen many times in WoW that doesn't give you an imminent victory card all the time, especially against someone like the Lich King. the risk would be too great.

Yuber8900
09-05-2006, 08:12 PM
Your comparing Anub`arak to KazzaK? Anub would decimate him easily, Supreme Mode or not. This is probably the highest ranking Scourge member outside Kel`thuzad we're talking about here, not a random Crypt Lord :P And Kil`jaedan is too cautious to attack the Lich King personally. Sure he may be more powerful, but as we have seen many times in WoW that doesn't give you an imminent victory card all the time, especially against someone like the Lich King. the risk would be too great.

Ahem

Anub'Rekhan

Tularis
09-05-2006, 08:27 PM
Ah my mistake. Yeah if Kazzak entered Supreme Mod he would probably kill Anub`rekhan, but who knows really.

Kenzuki
09-05-2006, 08:28 PM
I was in a ten man Kazzak raid and we dropped him first go, you're realyl comparing him to Anub'Rekhan who wipes 40 man raids decked out in BWL gear?

Yuber8900
09-05-2006, 09:25 PM
I was in a ten man Kazzak raid and we dropped him first go, you're realyl comparing him to Anub'Rekhan who wipes 40 man raids decked out in BWL gear?

We all know Kenzuli doesn't play WoW.

Timolas
09-06-2006, 05:33 AM
Ken, game mechanics!
A level 1 Northshire wolf would probably have as much chance to beat a level 14 Dingo from Westfall as a Coyote from Badlands in real life. Game mechanics do not apply in real life. :p

Besides, Kazzak pwnz0r roxx0rz lollercoaster.

EDIT: And about Kil'jaeden, he wouldn't be too much at risk because, him being cautious, he'd send hordes of demons into the Lich King, and then attack. Make sure victory is on his side. He'd win with or without them though, because Lichie would probably deal with the lesser demon waves.

EDIT2Kazzack Is Teh Leetz0r (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9vewx9HnAw&mode=related&search=) :

Kenzuki
09-06-2006, 12:18 PM
You guys know what I mean. The Legion is a broken force on Azeroth, while the Scourge has all of it's power there.

Kerrah
09-06-2006, 12:20 PM
But still, the legion got to Azeroth without the DP last time (WC3), how's that possible?

Yuber8900
09-06-2006, 12:58 PM
But still, the legion got to Azeroth without the DP last time (WC3), how's that possible?

The big ass Portal created by Kel'Thuzad at Dalaran.

Kerrah
09-06-2006, 01:26 PM
The big ass Portal created by Kel'Thuzad at Dalaran.
All of them went trough it? What closed it between the Battle of Mt. Hyjal and the point when Blood Elves used it?

Yuber8900
09-06-2006, 02:10 PM
All of them went trough it? What closed it between the Battle of Mt. Hyjal and the point when Blood Elves used it?

Nothing closed it, it semi-closed on it's own leaving the rift easily openable for all those who wanted to use it.

Timolas
09-06-2006, 03:37 PM
If the Book of Medivh finds itself even for a short while in the hands of a Warlock of demon cultist, then a new rift can signal the beginning to my depraved dream of oblivion.

With the Book we shall open a rift, and summon in the hosts of our master Yuber the Mage also dubbed Kil'jaeben.
And his unholy hosts thundered into the world of men, and lay waste to all before them. The forests burned, the wastes buckled and the very ice of Northrend melted to make way for the infernal fire of his eternal armies, which added Azeroth to the endless lists of ravaged worlds.

Kenzuki
09-06-2006, 08:41 PM
You're forgetting the part where the dragonflight, Alliance, Horde, and the Scourge all want to destroy the Legion pal. Imagine THAT scenario. Hell if the Alliance and Horde can ally, ANYONE can.

Yuber8900
09-06-2006, 09:52 PM
You're forgetting the part where the dragonflight, Alliance, Horde, and the Scourge all want to destroy the Legion pal. Imagine THAT scenario. Hell if the Alliance and Horde can ally, ANYONE can.

I always wondered what would happen if the Titans allied with the Old Gods!

ARM3481
09-06-2006, 11:40 PM
The Lich King couldn't restore the power he was losing, which he himself caused when he pushed Frostmourne out for Arthas to find. This was all planned by Ner'zhul from the start. All Illidan did was help bring about the events that would free the Lich King.

True, Illidan expedited it. Ner'zhul caused his own gradual loss of strength by forcing Frostmourne from the throne, but it's hard to say whether he counted on the timng of his merger. Illidan's attempt to use the Eye to attack Icecrown seemed to turn what was a predictable and somewhat stable loss of power for Ner'zhul up to that point into a gushing wound that needed fixing ASAP. Otherwise Arthas had plenty of opportunity to head north to Northrend instead of east to lose half of his holdings in Lordaeron after his first confrontation with Illidan in RoC. The Lich King's ability to predict the outcome of events seems more akin to Kil'Jaeden's knack for knowing all the necessary information to all but ensure a desired results (though with greater precision within the sphere of Azeroth), rather than outright clairvoyance. The Lich King can "see" things over a vast distance and use that to intricately plan just about anything to a point beyond mortal capability, but he can't necessarily use that virtual omnipresence to absolutely guarantee anything, since he needs his servants near something to physically enforce his will upon it. That's probably why, in part, Illidan even reached Icecrown in the first place without having to wade for weeks through wave after wave of Scourge. As long as Illidan remained on Outland, the Lich King couldn't really accurately determine what he would do.

The Lich king's is the sort of "predetermining" that, like the Legion's, can ultimately lead to mistakes simply because such beings can gradually find themselves convinced that every possibility's been covered and every loose end cut. Otherwise it seems like Arthas would have been warned that Sylvanas' banshees were misleading him before it even became necessary for Kel'Thuzad to save him. It's also a bit hard to believe the Lich King was planning on the Faceless Ones boiling up out of Northrend's lowest caverns when they did and potentially halting Arthas' efforts to reach Icecrown.

Timolas
09-07-2006, 05:03 AM
You're forgetting the part where the dragonflight, Alliance, Horde, and the Scourge all want to destroy the Legion pal. Imagine THAT scenario. Hell if the Alliance and Horde can ally, ANYONE can.

Oh come on, as if there's even a tiny chance of humanity ever allying with the Scourge... Or the dragonflights tolerating the Scourge either. :p
Horde and Alliance teaming up is a little more possible than a paladin slapping a drooling fetid corpse on the back and offering it a drink after a round of demon hunting.
"Behind you Kel'thuzad! Can't have you dying a second time considering you helped destroy Lordaeron. Harharhar! You okay Arthas, did that Doomguard leave a hoof print on your face? I'll get a panadol, don't you worry darling. Hey, Anub'arak, stop burrowing under my fridge! Just ask if you're hungry; I know how Imp beating can get tiring."

Kenzuki
09-07-2006, 08:33 AM
Oh come on, as if there's even a tiny chance of humanity ever allying with the Scourge... Or the dragonflights tolerating the Scourge either. :p
Horde and Alliance teaming up is a little more possible than a paladin slapping a drooling fetid corpse on the back and offering it a drink after a round of demon hunting.
"Behind you Kel'thuzad! Can't have you dying a second time considering you helped destroy Lordaeron. Harharhar! You okay Arthas, did that Doomguard leave a hoof print on your face? I'll get a panadol, don't you worry darling. Hey, Anub'arak, stop burrowing under my fridge! Just ask if you're hungry; I know how Imp beating can get tiring."

Prior to Warcraft III would you have EVER considered the Alliance and Horde allying to fight a greater foe? I mean hell if the shamanistic Horde can ally with the Forsaken and Blood Elves, what's next?

Timolas
09-07-2006, 09:46 AM
Prior to Warcraft III would you have EVER considered the Alliance and Horde allying to fight a greater foe? I mean hell if the shamanistic Horde can ally with the Forsaken and Blood Elves, what's next?

Certainly not the Scourge!

Kenzuki
09-07-2006, 09:54 AM
I think anything is possible in Warcraft now.

Timolas
09-07-2006, 09:57 AM
I think anything is possible in Warcraft now.

The Horde and Alliance had Medivh to unite them; and the alliance was between the open minded Jaina and peace favouring Thrall.
The Scourge is a gigantic evil abomination of a legion hated by all life other than the Cult of the Damned if you consider them living; the Scourge wouldn't want to ally civilization either, more like assimilate them if anything.

Tularis
09-07-2006, 05:15 PM
Arthas helped them in Warcraft 3 did he not? Or at least gave the Night Elves some advice. I wouldn't be surprised if he would do the same. At the moment though appearence wise to the common being the Burning Legion would still pose the biggest threat, as Night Elves, those in Stormwind, the orcs, etc etc would remember just how close the Legion came to destroying the world. The Undead though has mostly hung in the north of the Eastern Kingdoms, and to most people have done a half-hearted invasion that didn't result in much. If the Legion were to invade again, you can bet most people would forget about the Scourge and concentrate on them. Heck who knows, maybe thats what the Lich King is waiting for.

Bradford
09-07-2006, 05:33 PM
Arthas helped them in Warcraft 3 did he not? Or at least gave the Night Elves some advice. I wouldn't be surprised if he would do the same. At the moment though appearence wise to the common being the Burning Legion would still pose the biggest threat, as Night Elves, those in Stormwind, the orcs, etc etc would remember just how close the Legion came to destroying the world. The Undead though has mostly hung in the north of the Eastern Kingdoms, and to most people have done a half-hearted invasion that didn't result in much. If the Legion were to invade again, you can bet most people would forget about the Scourge and concentrate on them. Heck who knows, maybe thats what the Lich King is waiting for.

Thats a good point, we really are not sure WHAT the Lich King is waiting for. If he is as strong as he leads on to be, then nothing short of Sergeras should stand in his way. The fact is that the Lich King CAN see into the future and is probably waiting for the right opertune to strike.

Kerrah
09-08-2006, 11:57 AM
Thats a good point, we really are not sure WHAT the Lich King is waiting for. If he is as strong as he leads on to be, then nothing short of Sergeras should stand in his way. The fact is that the Lich King CAN see into the future and is probably waiting for the right opertune to strike.
I really cant wait.

Timolas
09-08-2006, 11:59 AM
then nothing short of Sergeras should stand in his way. .

Kil'jaeden is stronger than the Lich King, it is a fact.

About the Lich King waiting for people to attack the Legion for him; that wouldn't technically help much. Last time the Legion was a few steps away from conquering Azeroth, and this time Cenarius is dead and many resources have been spent; the Horde and Alliance is more hostile than ever, Medivh is gone, Malfurion is asleep etc etc. The Legion wouldn't be hindered by mortal resistance that's for sure.

Tularis
09-09-2006, 04:06 AM
The Legion wouldn't be hindered by mortal resistance that's for sure

I am sure the Legion thought that last time too, and look what happened. I think you underestimate the Horde and the Alliance; they showed that they could ally to some extent in the Ahn Qiraj war, and if the Burning Legion suddenly popped up, they would do the same. Its amazing the lengths people go to to stop the world from being destroyed :P

While I haven't seen anything saying that Kil`jaedan is stronger then the Lich King, I do agree with you, but it doesnt make much difference. Kil`jaedan will not personally attack unless he is absolutely certain that victory is imminient, absolutely certain! And there is no way someone could be absolutely certain with a being like the Lich King. The last thing he is going to want to do is step on this world; every other demon who has done so has basically been destroyed (mannaroth, Archimonde, etc etc) or seriously screwed up (Sargares.)

Not only that, but the Lich King knows he is high on Kil`jaedans list. You don't think he has some sort of plan should the Burning Legion decide once and for all to take him out? You don't think LK would be expecting it? I think alot of people seriously underestimate LK, not just how strong is but the fact that he is damn intelligent as well, and knows alot more about the Legion then most other non-demonic people.

Timolas
09-09-2006, 04:26 AM
Okay, now I get the feeling you only read what you quoted.
I gave my reasons why the Legion wouldn't be hindered by mortal resistance this time round. They would come up against it, but it would be sure as hell not enough to put a dent in another invasion. Reasons are already posted.

The Burning Legion outnumbers all life, and it is strong enough to crush Azeroth. Last time it's plans were ruined by Archimonde's hastiness, and a massive sacrifice on the Night Elves' part. Such a sacrifice can't be repeated; and now the Legion is in full control of Kil'jaeden, who can arrange things in the Legion's favour way more effectively.
If not for Archimonde's sudden death at Hjal, the world would have fallen.
"This is almost too easy, if I had known that this mortal resistance would be so weak, I would have launched this invasion centuries ago!"

That resistance includes Horde, Alliance, Dragons, Night Elves and basically a load of other creatures and races; from Furbolgs to Dark Trolls, all standing against the Legion. The Legion crushed the defenses. Mortal resistance would be even weaker this time, and as I said before the scenario that played out with Archimonde won't be played out again, especially since Kil'jaeden isn't exactly a fool.

I don't think Kil'jaeden has anything to fear of the Lich King. Even if the Lich King conquered Azeroth; then what? He can't expand or do anything; portals to other worlds would be way too risky. Ner'zhul's portal experience left him quite... in Kil'jaeden's grasp. Lich King has some 'plan' or whatever, but what could it be? From what we know there isn't anything.
Kil'jaeden has powerful lieutenants to counter those of the Scourge, and when it comes down to the sitiuation where only the Lich King is left; victory would be certain at that point. Also, I'm sure he wouldn't go in on a one on one, even if he is stronger. He'd swarm the Lich King with demons just to make sure the bastard is going to hell, then strike.

Yuber8900
09-09-2006, 08:13 AM
You're overestimating the Lich King's power, sure he can control a whole shit load of Undead with his mind but any mid-high level demonlord could do the same and without having to be stuck in one place.

ARM3481
09-13-2006, 07:13 PM
The fact is that the Lich King CAN see into the future and is probably waiting for the right opertune to strike.

Ah, but many a time the ultimate weakness of those who can predict the outcome of events is that when they start to see a future that they don't like, they begin trying to reinterpret their upcoming defeats as victories. Suddenly, after a successful record of accepting their foresight at face value, such beings often find themselves deciding out of the blue that their predictions aren't as reliable any more and should be second-guessed (privately of course, can't look uncertain in front of the enemy), just because the future doesn't involve them getting what they seek. Plus, while the Lich King's "future sight" is telling him one thing, somewhere else another powerful entity might be forseeing a wholly different outcome.