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-   -   Rise of the Horde (may contain spoilers) (http://www.scrollsoflore.com/forums//showthread.php?t=1423)

Kenzuki 01-06-2007 09:13 AM

Rise of the Horde (may contain spoilers)
 
This book is AWESOME. Get it, seriously. If you're a fan of the Horde you MUST have this book. I must say for a moment I thought the orcs were all going to be peace loving hippies, I couldn't have been more wrong. No longer will people call the orcs mere victims, no longer will they say it wasn't their fault. The true history of the Horde is revealed in this tome and it is worthy of praise.


-Thrall is Durotan made over folks, though I think Thrall is a little more honorable or nice, then again he was raised by humans.


-I really do feel sorry for Ner'zhul, you can't help it when you read his story. You seee how he goes from being a noble, caring leader who loves his people, and see how one day he will become the Lich King. Sad indeed.

-Gul'dan is a bastard that you will love to hate, which makes him all the more cooler.

-Grom "On crack" Hellscream is here, and trust me folks if you hoped he was some lame pansy who cared about his family you will be sadly mistaken. Grom was badass before the demons, and he always will be! Grom also made sure he was the first to recieve this new blessing, even taking the honor away from the Warchief himself hehe.

-Blackhand is made Warchief on Draenor, which is a slight change but one that I can live with. He's a pretty cool character actually.

-Orgrim Doomhammer is here, I really like how they fleshed out his story. They made him honorable but at the same time he is far from guiltless in this story of blood and death. Though to his credit, he did not drink of the blood of Mannoroth.

-Velen and the draenei are the other side of this story, and they are the ones you really do feel sorry for. Their entire way of life is torn out like a beating heart and crushed while they are forced to watch. Velen is a cool guy, reminds me alot of Malfurion actually, only without the temper tantrams.

-Orcish skin used to be brown, but as time went on they started to turn green from the corruption that the warlocks were spreading. Orgrim thought it ironic that the land was supposed to be green had turned brown, while they were brown and had turned green.


-We get to see how the ogres joined the Horde :) Put it to you this way "We no like gronn. Gronn hurt us!" Up until then ogres and orcs had been bitter enemies.

You'll like it alot, I promise. The same author that did Lord of the Clans shines in this book.

Rebirth 01-06-2007 09:52 AM

Guess I'll pick it up then. Does it allude to any other WarCraft books? To flesh out the universe a bit more?

Kenzuki 01-06-2007 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebirth
Guess I'll pick it up then. Does it allude to any other WarCraft books? To flesh out the universe a bit more?

Lord of the Clans and The Last Guardian.

Timolas 01-06-2007 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenzuki
If you're a fan of the Horde you MUST have this book.

Then I don't need to get it, but it sounds great anyway so that's enough for me. Just hope the local store has it in stock.

Kenzuki 01-06-2007 11:54 AM

Put it to you this way, if you're fan of Warcraft I and II, you NEED this book. It brought up so much nostalgia I was giddy with excitement! This is perhaps one of the best WC books that has ever come out, it is soooo awesome. It also sheds a GREAT light on the Draenei as well, you really get a feel for the people and how they and the orcs had alot in common. You'll also see just how evil Kil'jaeden is and how personal this was to him. You'll also see inside of Archimonde as well.

Kerrah 01-06-2007 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenzuki
You'll also see inside of Archimonde as well.

Ewww!

Aldrius 01-06-2007 02:23 PM

I think I might actually pick this up, though I'm wary.

I *HATE* the changes to Ner'zhul.

It's too "HE WENT FROM GOOD TO EVIL!"

I've always seen Ner'zhul as a character who is beyond good and evil, and is more of a self-serving little bitch. :p

Yuber8900 01-06-2007 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenzuli
-Velen and the draenei are the other side of this story, and they are the ones you really do feel sorry for. Their entire way of life is torn out like a beating heart and crushed while they are forced to watch. Velen is a cool guy, reminds me alot of Malfurion actually, only without the temper tantrams.

Like that so didn't happen before.

Kenzuki 01-06-2007 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldrius
I think I might actually pick this up, though I'm wary.

I *HATE* the changes to Ner'zhul.

It's too "HE WENT FROM GOOD TO EVIL!"

I've always seen Ner'zhul as a character who is beyond good and evil, and is more of a self-serving little bitch. :p

No, that sounds more like Gul'dan. Gul'dan who was willing to dispose of Ner'zhul from the start but Kil'jaeden wanted him alive.

Aldrius 01-06-2007 11:40 PM

It sounds like Ner'zhul to me...

He's always been pretty self-serving. o.o

The way I read into all his backstory anyway.

Look at it this way: Beforehand it could have been interpreted that he didn't want the Orcs to become the Legion's servants, because he would lose his control.

It also could have been interpreted that he wanted off of Draenor to save his own ass.

His life as the Lich King just speaks for itself.

Him as the good guy hero Orc just doesn't work for me.

xlandhenry 01-07-2007 12:41 AM

I'll love this book, since I'm a big fan of Eredar and Draenei :P

Sadly I'll have to wait at least a year to see the book in local store. Even Cycle of Hatred isn't yet...cry

Ghaztha 01-07-2007 10:41 AM

I've been thinking, i have read the Rise of the Horde and Kenzuki is right its a bloody good read, i mean i rarely read a book in one day..

anyway i was a bit confused about one thing.. How long had the Draenei been on Draenor?

Kenzuki 01-07-2007 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghaztha
I've been thinking, i have read the Rise of the Horde and Kenzuki is right its a bloody good read, i mean i rarely read a book in one day..

anyway i was a bit confused about one thing.. How long had the Draenei been on Draenor?

They had been there for at least two hundred years.

Also I'm not saying Ner'zhul is a hero, he DID just sit there all those years and watch as Gul'dan and his Shadow Councile turned his people into monsters, though to his credit he couldn't really do much of anything. Then when he found out that Gul'dan was going to make them all drink the blood of Dae'mons he dared to try. He wrote a letter to Durotan telling him not to drink what Gul'dan offered him. The only reason Orgrim didn't drink when Blackhand offered him was because he felt something wasn't right and he didn't want to take his chieftain's glory from him.

I LOVE how they wrote Grom Hellscream, even before the bloodlust he was a badass. You know the black stuff on his lower jaw? That's not a beard, that's a tattoo.

Aldrius 01-07-2007 02:33 PM

Quote:

Also I'm not saying Ner'zhul is a hero,
The book is, though. Or so it sounds.

Just my preference, he works better as the 'enemy of my enemy' as opposed to some heroic good guy.

But then I don't know the cirumstances with which he wrote to Durotan.

Ghaztha 01-07-2007 03:39 PM

Aye i loved how Grom got a tattoo on his lower jaw and he even roars as he did, i do wonder though if thats a trait in all Hellscreams.

So 200 + years then.. hrmm wait a minute that cant be right... since if you remember the Orcs seemed to remember Oshu'gun from before time.. that must be longer than 200 years..

Kenzuki 01-07-2007 04:07 PM

Hellscream isn't a family name, it's one he got because of his scream. Because orcs don't normally have the same last names unless they do it out of respect. Like Orgrim, he only took his father's name of Doomhammer after he died and he recieved the Doomhammer.

The book doesn't make him seem like some shining hero Aldrius. Read it and you will find out.

Yuber8900 01-07-2007 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenzuli
Hellscream isn't a family name, it's one he got because of his scream. Because orcs don't normally have the same last names unless they do it out of respect. Like Orgrim, he only took his father's name of Doomhammer after he died and he recieved the Doomhammer.

The book doesn't make him seem like some shining hero Aldrius. Read it and you will find out.

Son of Hellscream.

ScytheRexx 01-07-2007 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuber8900
Son of Hellscream.

That is used as an indication and not an actual last name. Garrosh is his only name, the title "Son of Hellscream" was used as a way to show that he is the child of Hellscream, but so far Garrosh has no last name.

Now Jorin Deadeye is another story, as he actually adopted the last name of his father. I would like to hear why he did such a thing.

Yuber8900 01-07-2007 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ScytheRexx
That is used as an indication and not an actual last name. Garrosh is his only name, the title "Son of Hellscream" was used as a way to show that he is the child of Hellscream, but so far Garrosh has no last name.

Now Jorin Deadeye is another story, as he actually adopted the last name of his father. I would like to hear why he did such a thing.

Because Deadeye is probably the most known chieftain even if people don't realize that he's a chieftain. The whole eye of Kilrogg thing...

And I'm not counting Thrall.

Aldrius 01-07-2007 05:45 PM

Quote:

The book doesn't make him seem like some shining hero Aldrius. Read it and you will find out.
Fair enough.

Kenzuki 01-07-2007 06:13 PM

It was said that Kilrogg did not adopt a familial name, he got his own name from his eye wound and he was already old for a chieftain back then. It does say that due to his strength and stamina it wasn't likely he'd be kicking the bucket any time soon. It says that Hellscream, Blackhand, Bladefist, and Deadeye were some of the most fierce chieftains around.

The orcs never were a nice race of people, they lived in relative peace with the draenei, trading once in a while, but with great mistrust. The only reason the orcs didn't fight each other is because they came together twice a year in the shadow of their Sacred Mountain, where the clans would meet and discuss things. Usually clans did not mix or associate with each other outside of this and it was discouraged. Orgrim and Durotan meet at such a gathered and dared to do what was different, be friends :P The clans didn't forbid it, thinking it would just go away one day. But it never did.

Nephalim 01-10-2007 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aldrius
Him as the good guy hero Orc just doesn't work for me.

Doing depraved and damning things because your balls are in a vice just makes it moderately justified, not heroic.

I never found Ner'zhul to be that bad a guy. Even in Beyond the Dark Portal, while he was definitely a villain, he wasn't taking home any awards. Though I suppose in the shadow of Gul'dan, those are pretty big dreadmist sandals to fill. Even in Frozen Throne, I wasn't totally sure if he would keep up the whole Scourge taking over the world thing, now that he was out from under the demon thumbs. But just because he's not at one end of the spectrum doesn't mean he's at the other. He's never been a good guy. Even in the Warcraft III version of events, his last minute recession doesn't exactly redeem him, it just makes him not as bad as Gul'dan.

Being blackmailed into submission makes him sympathetic but hardly a hero. And it doesn't change who he is now. Kil'jaeden certainly did a number on him.

Aldrius 01-10-2007 02:18 AM

Quote:

Doing depraved and damning things because your balls are in a vice just makes it moderately justified, not heroic.
Well, I mean stuff like warning Durotan and such. Isn't self-serving and bitchy enough for Ner'zhul. :p Where is the alterior motive in that!? It all depends on how it's written I guess, though. If it's like "Arg. Stop following Kil'jaeden!!" then fine, but if it's like. "Ohno, Scary Demonz. =( DUROTAN DONT LISTEN TO THEMZ." then it's silly.

Quote:

I never found Ner'zhul to be that bad a guy. Even in Beyond the Dark Portal, while he was definitely a villain, he wasn't taking home any awards. Though I suppose in the shadow of Gul'dan, those are pretty big dreadmist sandals to fill. Even in Frozen Throne, I wasn't totally sure if he would keep up the whole Scourge taking over the world thing, now that he was out from under the demon thumbs. But just because he's not at one end of the spectrum doesn't mean he's at the other. He's never been a good guy. Even in the Warcraft III version of events, his last minute recession doesn't exactly redeem him, it just makes him not as bad as Gul'dan.

Being blackmailed into submission makes him sympathetic but hardly a hero. And it doesn't change who he is now. Kil'jaeden certainly did a number on him.
Which is why I like him so much, he's beyond such labels as 'bad guy' or 'good guy'. He's clearly a villain, but he doesn't do things in a typical villainous fashion. If anything, he fights the 'bad guys' more than he does the 'good guys', but not in the same pacifist way that say, Illidan does. ("OHNO WHAT WOULD TYRANDE THINK OF ME!!")

Flamestrider 01-10-2007 07:41 PM

Well, I think we need to keep in mind that a good deal of time has passed between Rise of the Horde and Beyond the Dark Portal. If Ner'zhul is presented as more of a typical "good guy" in Rise of the Horde, the subsequent years may have made him a lot more cynical. With the Frostwolves banished, Doomhammer defeated, and new bouts of civil war breaking out among the clans still on Draenor, it's easy to see how he could have abandoned past ideological convictions; he may have thought that his people were beyond saving entirely. Around the same time, he realized that with Gul'dan dead, Kil'jaeden would come after him, and decided "fuck this, I'm gonna save myself."

At least, that's my take on it.

Kenzuki 01-10-2007 09:13 PM

Ner'zhul warned Durotan without telling him who it was, he did it as an act of defiance towards Gul'dan and Kil'jaeden for treating him like crap. They would make him sit with them in the Shadow Councile in the floor, humilate him and treat him like some old beat dog. The old wolf may not have had any teeth but he hadn't forgotten how to fight.

I love how they did Gul'dan, he is soooo evil. Also when the orcs first drank the blood of Mannoroth they didn't turn red, it just made them really, really pissed.

The way that Kil'jaeden got them to fight the draenei was also wonderfully evil as well as understandable. He played their differences and suspecions against them. I really felt sorry for Velen man, unlike Malfurion who got pissed and killed people Velen reminded me of alot like well Jesus, I seriously could find no faults in him. It's refreshing to find someone in Warcraft that is good, like Uther and Lothar you know?


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