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Old 04-01-2012, 02:29 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Default Elemental Spirits

I'm currently trying to update the elemental spirit pages in wowpedia and i feel i need some help, not so much in the writing part but in the fact-source checking kinda of help, and much because of the RPG info being non-canon.

Elemental Spirits
Spirit of Earth
Quote:
The Spirit of Earth is the spirit of everything encompassing the land — a shaman may speak to it when in need of help.
Outland Spirit

The Spirit of Earth of the Outlands first communicated with Nobundo after the orcs abandoned Shamanism in favour of practicing with fel magic. Sensing in Nobundo a kindred spirit due to the feeling of neglect and abuse, due to the cataclysm of Draenor, it together with the other three elemental spirits of outlands, taught Nobundo the path of the shaman and helped him spread it to the remnants of the Draenei society.
Earth voice is low and persistent. This spirit lent his strength to Nobundo, when he was exhausted, and gave him resolve, a steel will, and unshakable determination after years of training.
Spirit of Air or Wind
Quote:
The Spirit of Air or Wind is the spirit of everything encompassing the wind, each world having it's own - a shaman may speak to it when in need of help.
Outland Spirit

The Spirit of Wind of the Outlands first communicated with Nobundo after the orcs abandoned Shamanism in favour of practicing with fel magic. Sensing in Nobundo a kindred spirit due to the feeling of neglect and abuse, due to the cataclysm of Draenor, saved him from committing suicide with a gust of air, reassuring him that he was not alone and giving him promises of the future.
It, together with the other three elemental spirits of outlands, taught Nobundo the path of the shaman and helped him spread it to the remnants of the Draenei society.
This spirit is supportive and often pushes Nobundo forwards with gusts of wind. It's voice sometime was calm and placating; at others it was insistent and forceful. It taught him courage and persistence and how to dig deep within and press on in the face of adversity.
Quote

Everything that is… is alive. - Outland Spirit of Wind to Nobundo.
Spirit of Fire
Quote:
The Spirit of Fire is the spirit of everything encompassing the fire elements — a shaman may speak to it when in need of help.
Outland Spirit

The Spirit of Fire of the Outlands first communicated with Nobundo after the orcs abandoned Shamanism in favour of practicing with fel magic. Sensing in Nobundo a kindred spirit due to the feeling of neglect and abuse, due to the cataclym of Draenor, it together with the other three elemental spirits of outlands, taught Nobundo the path of the shaman and helped him spread it to the remnants of the Draenei society.
It appeared before Nobundo as great column of fire, flames spread out and in a flickering dance with shifting, nebulous features.
This spirit is aggressive and intimidating, and doesn't like when Nobundo questions the what it demanded to do. It's voice sometimes sounds like a great and powerful storm and at other a occasional rumbling. Fire was the spirit most affected by Nobundo conflicts.It gave Nobundo passion, a renewed appreciation for life, and the desire to overcome any obstacle.
Quotes

Spirit of Fire: Go to the mountains of Nagrand. High among the peaks you will find a place… where your true journey will begin.
Nobundo:“To go there, I will have to pass through the camps of the unaffected, where my kind is forbidden.”
Spirit of Fire: Do not question the opportunity you are being given! Walk with your head held high, for you are no longer alone.
Spirit of Fire confronting Nobundo.
Spirit of Water
Quote:
The Spirit of Water is the spirit of everything encompassing the different forms of water — a shaman may speak to it when in need of help.
Outland Spirit

The Spirit of Water of the Outlands first communicated with Nobundo after the orcs abandoned Shamanism in favour of practicing with fel magic. Sensing in Nobundo a kindred spirit due to the feeling of neglect and abuse, due to the cataclysm of Draenor. The Water Spirit was also the one that adapted the fastest to the cataclysm. It, together with the other three elemental spirits of outlands, taught Nobundo the path of the shaman and helped him spread it to the remnants of the Draenei society.
This spirit was the calmest of the spirits, only introducing itself when Nobundo couldn't listen to the other spirits trying to talk at the same time, due to missing the discussions with the Shaman. The Water Spirit was the one that took the role of instructing Nobundo into shamanism in general
It's voice is at once clear and soothing, strong and robust, and all of the elements, water is the most light-hearted. Water gave Nobundo clarity and patience, unclouding his thoughts of the burdens of being a Broken.
Quote

Spirit of Water:You must forgive them: it has been too long since they have felt the tempering influence of the shaman. They are angry, confused, still reeling from the blow dealt to them.
Nobundo:“The cataclysm,”
Spirit of Water:Yes. I was perhaps the least affected, but it has always been this way. It is a necessity that I adapt quickly, given that I provide the very foundations of life.
Nobundo:“Water.”
- The Spirit of Water introducing itself to Nobundo.
Spirit of Water:Welcome. Here in this quiet refuge the elements coexist in relative peace, and so our discourse with you will be easier, especially in the early stages of your journey, before you have learned to feel our intentions without thinking. True knowledge and understanding will take years, but if you stay the course, in time we will be yours to call upon… but never to command. Yet if you respect us, and your motives remain unselfish, we will never abandon you.
Nobundo:“Why have you chosen me?”
Spirit of Water:The cataclysm cast us all into turmoil and uncertainty. For a time we were lost. In you we sensed a kindred spirit: confused, neglected. It took time for us to recover sufficiently to reach out once again, but when we did, we hoped you would be… receptive.
Nobundo:“Will I be able to use these abilities to help my people?”
Spirit of Water:Yes. The relationship between the elements and the shaman is one of synchronicity. The shaman’s influence helps to calm and unite us, just as our influence enriches and fulfills the shaman. When you have completed your training, you will be able to call upon the elements in times of need. If the elements deem your cause just, we will assist you in any way possible.
- The Spirit of Water explaining why Nobundo was chosen to be a Shaman.
Spirit of Water:We sense that you are still… conflicted.
Nobundo:“Yes, I am haunted by the spirits of those who passed at Shattrath. Can the elements assist in this?”
Spirit of Water:The conflict rests not with the spirits of the departed, but within you. It is a conflict you alone must resolve.
Nobundo:“Will this inner struggle prevent me from realizing my true potential as a shaman?”
Spirit of Water:Your conflict is reflected in the sky above, in the ground beneath you, in me, and especially in Fire. It is a reflection of nature’s eternal struggle to achieve and maintain balance.
Nobundo:“No matter how far my journey takes me, I suppose true understanding lies in the knowledge that the journey will never end.”
Spirit of Water:Good… very good. The time has come for you to take your next step, one that may prove to be the most important of all.
Nobundo:“I am ready.”
Spirit of Water:Close your eyes.
- Nobundo discussing his conflict with the Spirit of Water.
Spirit of the Wilds



Since i only have Unbroken as a source(altrough i read that the lord of the clans as some of it), is there any info that i should add or be corrected?
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:46 PM
mjbmitch mjbmitch is offline

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Make sure you depict what the difference is between the spirits shaman speak to and the miscellaneous spirits, i.e. Quilboar Spirit, etc.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:33 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by mjbmitch View Post
Make sure you depict what the difference is between the spirits shaman speak to and the miscellaneous spirits, i.e. Quilboar Spirit, etc.
You mean between ancestor spirits and elemental spirits that are both praticed in shamanism?

That actually a pretty important point, thanks

EDIT: I would really like some criticism on how the spirit of air article is written
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:48 PM
mjbmitch mjbmitch is offline

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Also, does the elemental spirits have anything to do with the elementals of their corresponding elements?

In my opinion, the spirit of air article is off to a good start; it just needs to be extended for additional information found, i.e. how the spirit may not always cause good, but can also cause harm (see the Elemental Unrest and the Shattering).
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:59 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by mjbmitch View Post
Also, does the elemental spirits have anything to do with the elementals of their corresponding elements?

In my opinion, the spirit of air article is off to a good start; it just needs to be extended for additional information found, i.e. how the spirit may not always cause good, but can also cause harm (see the Elemental Unrest and the Shattering).
The elementals are part/related to the elemental spirits, but not the same, also the spirits don't have any real body, unlike the elementals.

Hmm i need to put that, but in the general article since it wasn't really anything to note on the individual spirits in that particular event
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:29 PM
mjbmitch mjbmitch is offline

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Aren't the elements powered by the spirits of the elements?
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:43 PM
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I'm not sure of the relations between the elements, elementals, and elemental spirits.
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:19 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I'm not sure of the relations between the elements, elementals, and elemental spirits.
I'm not sure either, my theory is that the elemental spirits are the "hivemind" of all elementals of that world.

EDIT: did a small upgrade to the air spirit

Quote:
The Spirit of Air or Wind is the spirit of everything encompassing the wind, each world having it's own - a shaman may speak to it when in need of help.

Outland Spirit

The Spirit of Wind of the Outlands first communicated with Nobundo after the orcs abandoned Shamanism in favour of practicing with fel magic. Sensing in Nobundo a kindred spirit due to the feeling of neglect and abuse, due to the destruction of the outlands, saved him from committing suicide with a gust of air, reassuring him that he was not alone and giving him promises of the future.
It, together with the other three elemental spirits of outlands, taught Nobundo the path of the shaman and helped him spread it to the remnants of the Draenei society.
This spirit is supportive and often pushes Nobundo forwards with gusts of wind. It's voice sometime was calm and placating; at others it was insistent and forceful. It taught him courage and persistence and how to dig deep within and press on in the face of adversity.

Quote

"Everything that is… is alive." - Outland Spirit of Wind to Nobundo.[1]
And the earth spirit

Quote:
The Spirit of Earth is the spirit of everything encompassing the land — a shaman may speak to it when in need of help.

Outland Spirit

The Spirit of Earth of the Outlands first communicated with Nobundo after the orcs abandoned Shamanism in favour of practicing with fel magic. Sensing in Nobundo a kindred spirit due to the feeling of neglect and abuse, due to the destruction of the outlands, it together with the other three elemental spirits of outlands, taught Nobundo the path of the shaman and helped him spread it to the remnants of the Draenei society.
This spirit lent his strength to Nobundo, when he was exhausted, and gave him resolve, a steel will, and unshakable determination after years of training.
Poor earth spirit, doesn't get to say anything interesting to nobundo

What do you think of these 2 articles?
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Old 04-02-2012, 03:26 PM
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But there's plenty of indication that there is no elemental hive-mind and the elementals are independently intelligent and sapient. The most obvious examples being the Elemental Lords. The wind elementals at Skywall indicate that they have a very complex and advanced culture.
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Old 04-02-2012, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Saranus View Post
But there's plenty of indication that there is no elemental hive-mind and the elementals are independently intelligent and sapient. The most obvious examples being the Elemental Lords. The wind elementals at Skywall indicate that they have a very complex and advanced culture.
I was thinking of a independent hivemind
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Old 04-02-2012, 05:52 PM
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I always thought the Elemental Spirits (ES) as the mind of the respective element. In the other hand, elementals (in all their shapes) are just beings made of the respective element, just like mortal races are made of organic things.

Another possibility is that the ES are somekind of collective and independent mind that exist as long as the elementals.

Truth is that Blizzard haven't detailed the relation between this entities.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:07 PM
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I always thought they were the same thing.
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Old 04-21-2012, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
I always thought they were the same thing.
Pretty much.

They are different in how they are viewed.
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Old 04-21-2012, 11:46 AM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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So i have to find a citation that disntiguishes between Elemental Spirits and normal Elementals.

Either that or i have to rename the article from Elemental Spirits to have another name to avoid confusion...

Also i completed every article except the ones about spirits of the wilds which is just too contradictory.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
So i have to find a citation that disntiguishes between Elemental Spirits and normal Elementals.

Either that or i have to rename the article from Elemental Spirits to have another name to avoid confusion...

Also i completed every article except the ones about spirits of the wilds which is just too contradictory.
You do not have to rename the article.
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Old 04-21-2012, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
You do not have to rename the article.
His inner Rolandius compels him.
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Old 04-21-2012, 02:05 PM
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His inner Rolandius compels him.
It's more about not mixing the mobs called Burning Spirits with the big ones like the Spirit of Fire
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
So i have to find a citation that disntiguishes between Elemental Spirits and normal Elementals.
Unfortunately, such citation might not exist. The difference kind of dissolves with the Cataclysm; pre-Shattering the elemental spirits are described as terrified of what's coming, and aupset by the chaos they're about to be thrown into. Then Deathwing returns, and the shamans basically just act like the invading elementals from the planes of earth, air, water and fire are normal spirits like the rest others who just need to be quelled and sorted out. Which doesn't really mesh, because the elemental spirits have always been portrayed as ultimately desiring balance with their counterparts while those of the Elemental Plane are pretty consistently made out to be inherently contentious and bent upon destroying one another and upsetting the balance.

Contextually there are implications that the whole hierarchy of Elemental Lords and subsequent minions forming armies and raging war against each other isn't a natural state for the elements, but at the same time the Earthen Ring never really behaves as if Ragnaros, Al'Akir and the rest are anything other than disturbed spirits who need to be brought into balance. Particularly in the fact that Gul'dan's severing of the elements from the orcs involved summoning an elemental lord in Shadowmoon Valley, implying that the elementals are "damaged" in some way that causes their presence to shatter the balance between the elemental spirits who still belong.

It's also potentially telling that we see in Nagrand a single instance in which the player is sent by Gordawg (Fury of Earth) to track down and slay Gurok, an elemental who's controlling others like himself, perhaps suggesting that Gurok was afflicted by the sort of corruption that leads the likes of Ragnaros to enslave and control their fellow spirits rather than exist in harmony with them.

Plus the dwarf shaman NPC at the Throne of elements during the pre-Cataclysm event (though himself of questionable canonicity, given he's basically the Alliance's turn-in NPC for witnessing a scene from the Shattering novel that was technically just between Thrall, Aggra and the Furies) says the elemental activities on Azeroth are, like those during Outland's corruption and shattering, tied to an Elemental Plane in upheaval, suggesting that either every planet has its own Elemental Plane or that they're all somehow tied to the four we know.

It's kind of sad, because in early Cataclysm reveals it was indicated that the Firelands would be full of stuff involving the history of Ragnaros and his realm and how things got to the point they did, but instead the only history we saw was that of a pair of psychotic night elves and their band of flaming druids. Even half of Ragnaros' own raid boss underlings were either new recruits or examples of the Firelands' local wildlife instead of an extension of the elemental ruling nobility we saw in the Molten Core. The Elemental Lords in general remain kind of unclear in whether they just represented the natural state of the primordial elements pre-Reordering, or if the Old Gods explicitly forged a bunch of the elemental spirits into armies with the four Lords in command as part of their dominion over Azeroth.

All in all, Cataclysm was a big chance to learn all sorts of stuff about the elements, yet we came out of it learning very little about them. We got a few faces and personalities for the Elemental Lords themselves, but otherwise the focus was so spread between Ragnaros, Deathwing and the Old Gods (who everyone - including the Aspects - will probably just forget/ignore for a few expansions or so, then act shocked to learn that the Old God we learned about yet didn't kill is still alive and doing stuff) that no single area really got much meaningful development. We learned more about the trolls from the ZG and ZA 5-mans than we did about any of the primary antagonists throughout an entire expansion full of raids, 5-mans and leveling zones.

Of course, it's even harder to figure Cataclysm's treatment of the elements when one considers that technically, with the elemental spirits in turmoil, none of the shamans - including the Earthen Ring and the players - should have had any powers. One of the whole points of it was the elemental spirits being in such a tizzy about the Shattering that they weren't heeding the shamans' attempts to calm them any longer, yet Thrall ended up being the only shaman in the game to have any visibly portrayed difficulty talking to the spirits at all.

Then, of course, we've got Goldmine and his elemental Magmatooth who throw another wrench into any efforts at distinguishing between the sometimes fractious yet still naturally harmonious elemental spirits shamans deal with and the rampaging entities of the Elemental Plane who seek the destruction of their counterparts and don't care a whit about balance and harmony.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:24 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Unfortunately, such citation might not exist. The difference kind of dissolves with the Cataclysm; pre-Shattering the elemental spirits are described as terrified of what's coming, and aupset by the chaos they're about to be thrown into. Then Deathwing returns, and the shamans basically just act like the invading elementals from the planes of earth, air, water and fire are normal spirits like the rest others who just need to be quelled and sorted out. Which doesn't really mesh, because the elemental spirits have always been portrayed as ultimately desiring balance with their counterparts while those of the Elemental Plane are pretty consistently made out to be inherently contentious and bent upon destroying one another and upsetting the balance.

Contextually there are implications that the whole hierarchy of Elemental Lords and subsequent minions forming armies and raging war against each other isn't a natural state for the elements, but at the same time the Earthen Ring never really behaves as if Ragnaros, Al'Akir and the rest are anything other than disturbed spirits who need to be brought into balance. Particularly in the fact that Gul'dan's severing of the elements from the orcs involved summoning an elemental lord in Shadowmoon Valley, implying that the elementals are "damaged" in some way that causes their presence to shatter the balance between the elemental spirits who still belong.

It's also potentially telling that we see in Nagrand a single instance in which the player is sent by Gordawg (Fury of Earth) to track down and slay Gurok, an elemental who's controlling others like himself, perhaps suggesting that Gurok was afflicted by the sort of corruption that leads the likes of Ragnaros to enslave and control their fellow spirits rather than exist in harmony with them.

Plus the dwarf shaman NPC at the Throne of elements during the pre-Cataclysm event (though himself of questionable canonicity, given he's basically the Alliance's turn-in NPC for witnessing a scene from the Shattering novel that was technically just between Thrall, Aggra and the Furies) says the elemental activities on Azeroth are, like those during Outland's corruption and shattering, tied to an Elemental Plane in upheaval, suggesting that either every planet has its own Elemental Plane or that they're all somehow tied to the four we know.

It's kind of sad, because in early Cataclysm reveals it was indicated that the Firelands would be full of stuff involving the history of Ragnaros and his realm and how things got to the point they did, but instead the only history we saw was that of a pair of psychotic night elves and their band of flaming druids. Even half of Ragnaros' own raid boss underlings were either new recruits or examples of the Firelands' local wildlife instead of an extension of the elemental ruling nobility we saw in the Molten Core. The Elemental Lords in general remain kind of unclear in whether they just represented the natural state of the primordial elements pre-Reordering, or if the Old Gods explicitly forged a bunch of the elemental spirits into armies with the four Lords in command as part of their dominion over Azeroth.

All in all, Cataclysm was a big chance to learn all sorts of stuff about the elements, yet we came out of it learning very little about them. We got a few faces and personalities for the Elemental Lords themselves, but otherwise the focus was so spread between Ragnaros, Deathwing and the Old Gods (who everyone - including the Aspects - will probably just forget/ignore for a few expansions or so, then act shocked to learn that the Old God we learned about yet didn't kill is still alive and doing stuff) that no single area really got much meaningful development. We learned more about the trolls from the ZG and ZA 5-mans than we did about any of the primary antagonists throughout an entire expansion full of raids, 5-mans and leveling zones.

Of course, it's even harder to figure Cataclysm's treatment of the elements when one considers that technically, with the elemental spirits in turmoil, none of the shamans - including the Earthen Ring and the players - should have had any powers. One of the whole points of it was the elemental spirits being in such a tizzy about the Shattering that they weren't heeding the shamans' attempts to calm them any longer, yet Thrall ended up being the only shaman in the game to have any visibly portrayed difficulty talking to the spirits at all.

Then, of course, we've got Goldmine and his elemental Magmatooth who throw another wrench into any efforts at distinguishing between the sometimes fractious yet still naturally harmonious elemental spirits shamans deal with and the rampaging entities of the Elemental Plane who seek the destruction of their counterparts and don't care a whit about balance and harmony.
Brilliant yet again ARM.

There's just one thing i have to point out, from the citations given to me in the Novice sanctuary of the Lord of the Clans and Warcraft:Shaman, and from reading Unbroken.

They are never called(as far as i'm aware) the "Elemental spirits", even trough all five have have Spirit in their name and are of elemental nature, the writing, when it refers to them, actually calls the big five as the "Elements".

How they are related to the Elementals is still hard to tell but it's clear, by their know interactions with Muln, Thrall and Nobundo, that they are more of a mental concept of the Elements to the corporal concept of the Elementals.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
There's just one thing i have to point out, from the citations given to me in the Novice sanctuary of the Lord of the Clans and Warcraft:Shaman, and from reading Unbroken.

They are never called(as far as i'm aware) the "Elemental spirits", even trough all five have have Spirit in their name and are of elemental nature, the writing, when it refers to them, actually calls the big five as the "Elements".
They are the elements. However, the terms are not mutually exclusive.

Quote:
How they are related to the Elementals is still hard to tell but it's clear, by their know interactions with Muln, Thrall and Nobundo, that they are more of a mental concept of the Elements to the corporal concept of the Elementals.
They are usually just mental voices, but they can manifest.
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Old 04-21-2012, 06:53 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
They are the elements. However, the terms are not mutually exclusive.
I just want to avoid confusion between what people call the Elementals and the big five because both share nature and the word spirit, but function differently.

Quote:
They are usually just mental voices, but they can manifest.
In Unbroken at best the spirit of wind manifests as pushing wind and the spirit of fire as confrontative fire, not once they manifest as elementals.
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