Make sure you depict what the difference is between the spirits shaman speak to and the miscellaneous spirits, i.e. Quilboar Spirit, etc.

You mean between ancestor spirits and elemental spirits that are both praticed in shamanism?

That actually a pretty important point, thanks

EDIT: I would really like some criticism on how the spirit of air article is written

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Also, does the elemental spirits have anything to do with the elementals of their corresponding elements?

In my opinion, the spirit of air article is off to a good start; it just needs to be extended for additional information found, i.e. how the spirit may not always cause good, but can also cause harm (see the Elemental Unrest and the Shattering).

The elementals are part/related to the elemental spirits, but not the same, also the spirits don't have any real body, unlike the elementals.

Hmm i need to put that, but in the general article since it wasn't really anything to note on the individual spirits in that particular event

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Aren't the elements powered by the spirits of the elements?

I'm not sure of the relations between the elements, elementals, and elemental spirits.

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I'm not sure either, my theory is that the elemental spirits are the "hivemind" of all elementals of that world.

EDIT: did a small upgrade to the air spirit

And the earth spirit

Poor earth spirit, doesn't get to say anything interesting to nobundo

What do you think of these 2 articles?

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But there's plenty of indication that there is no elemental hive-mind and the elementals are independently intelligent and sapient. The most obvious examples being the Elemental Lords. The wind elementals at Skywall indicate that they have a very complex and advanced culture.

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'This wand's brother is the wand of that scar-maker, the guy who gave you your famous scar.' Harry almost dookies a shooter but controls himself. Harry is sick of whispery games, and he says, normally, 'What is this scar-maker's name?' Ed Vanders all but holds up a skull and soliloquies, 'Oh, we don't say his name, but know this: he is a badass. He can kill anyone, anything. A gorilla or a bear, whatever, anything. Anything but you.' Ed Vanders, wasteland of a face, crowds in close. His monologue is stinky. 'You are in a great position. You are an army of wizards, Mister Potter. Use yourself wisely.' His breath cascades over Harry's unbreathing nose. 'How long must I go without an intake of air?' is the only thought that consumes his brain.

I was thinking of a independent hivemind

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I always thought the Elemental Spirits (ES) as the mind of the respective element. In the other hand, elementals (in all their shapes) are just beings made of the respective element, just like mortal races are made of organic things.

Another possibility is that the ES are somekind of collective and independent mind that exist as long as the elementals.

Truth is that Blizzard haven't detailed the relation between this entities.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fojar So technically he doesn't feed them to the shark, he accidentally drops them when the Horde player attacks them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porimlys Fojar, it's been proven time and time again that presenting evidence to you is an exercise in futility.

I always thought they were the same thing.

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“Weakness and ambivalence lead to war.” - George H.W. Bush

Pretty much.

They are different in how they are viewed.

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So i have to find a citation that disntiguishes between Elemental Spirits and normal Elementals.

Either that or i have to rename the article from Elemental Spirits to have another name to avoid confusion...

Also i completed every article except the ones about spirits of the wilds which is just too contradictory.

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You do not have to rename the article.

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His inner Rolandius compels him.

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It's more about not mixing the mobs called Burning Spirits with the big ones like the Spirit of Fire

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Unfortunately, such citation might not exist. The difference kind of dissolves with the Cataclysm; pre-Shattering the elemental spirits are described as terrified of what's coming, and aupset by the chaos they're about to be thrown into. Then Deathwing returns, and the shamans basically just act like the invading elementals from the planes of earth, air, water and fire are normal spirits like the rest others who just need to be quelled and sorted out. Which doesn't really mesh, because the elemental spirits have always been portrayed as ultimately desiring balance with their counterparts while those of the Elemental Plane are pretty consistently made out to be inherently contentious and bent upon destroying one another and upsetting the balance.

Contextually there are implications that the whole hierarchy of Elemental Lords and subsequent minions forming armies and raging war against each other isn't a natural state for the elements, but at the same time the Earthen Ring never really behaves as if Ragnaros, Al'Akir and the rest are anything other than disturbed spirits who need to be brought into balance. Particularly in the fact that Gul'dan's severing of the elements from the orcs involved summoning an elemental lord in Shadowmoon Valley, implying that the elementals are "damaged" in some way that causes their presence to shatter the balance between the elemental spirits who still belong.

It's also potentially telling that we see in Nagrand a single instance in which the player is sent by Gordawg (Fury of Earth) to track down and slay Gurok, an elemental who's controlling others like himself, perhaps suggesting that Gurok was afflicted by the sort of corruption that leads the likes of Ragnaros to enslave and control their fellow spirits rather than exist in harmony with them.

Plus the dwarf shaman NPC at the Throne of elements during the pre-Cataclysm event (though himself of questionable canonicity, given he's basically the Alliance's turn-in NPC for witnessing a scene from the Shattering novel that was technically just between Thrall, Aggra and the Furies) says the elemental activities on Azeroth are, like those during Outland's corruption and shattering, tied to an Elemental Plane in upheaval, suggesting that either every planet has its own Elemental Plane or that they're all somehow tied to the four we know.

It's kind of sad, because in early Cataclysm reveals it was indicated that the Firelands would be full of stuff involving the history of Ragnaros and his realm and how things got to the point they did, but instead the only history we saw was that of a pair of psychotic night elves and their band of flaming druids. Even half of Ragnaros' own raid boss underlings were either new recruits or examples of the Firelands' local wildlife instead of an extension of the elemental ruling nobility we saw in the Molten Core. The Elemental Lords in general remain kind of unclear in whether they just represented the natural state of the primordial elements pre-Reordering, or if the Old Gods explicitly forged a bunch of the elemental spirits into armies with the four Lords in command as part of their dominion over Azeroth.

All in all, Cataclysm was a big chance to learn all sorts of stuff about the elements, yet we came out of it learning very little about them. We got a few faces and personalities for the Elemental Lords themselves, but otherwise the focus was so spread between Ragnaros, Deathwing and the Old Gods (who everyone - including the Aspects - will probably just forget/ignore for a few expansions or so, then act shocked to learn that the Old God we learned about yet didn't kill is still alive and doing stuff) that no single area really got much meaningful development. We learned more about the trolls from the ZG and ZA 5-mans than we did about any of the primary antagonists throughout an entire expansion full of raids, 5-mans and leveling zones.

Of course, it's even harder to figure Cataclysm's treatment of the elements when one considers that technically, with the elemental spirits in turmoil, none of the shamans - including the Earthen Ring and the players - should have had any powers. One of the whole points of it was the elemental spirits being in such a tizzy about the Shattering that they weren't heeding the shamans' attempts to calm them any longer, yet Thrall ended up being the only shaman in the game to have any visibly portrayed difficulty talking to the spirits at all.

Then, of course, we've got Goldmine and his elemental Magmatooth who throw another wrench into any efforts at distinguishing between the sometimes fractious yet still naturally harmonious elemental spirits shamans deal with and the rampaging entities of the Elemental Plane who seek the destruction of their counterparts and don't care a whit about balance and harmony.

Brilliant yet again ARM.

There's just one thing i have to point out, from the citations given to me in the Novice sanctuary of the Lord of the Clans and Warcraft:Shaman, and from reading Unbroken.

They are never called(as far as i'm aware) the "Elemental spirits", even trough all five have have Spirit in their name and are of elemental nature, the writing, when it refers to them, actually calls the big five as the "Elements".

How they are related to the Elementals is still hard to tell but it's clear, by their know interactions with Muln, Thrall and Nobundo, that they are more of a mental concept of the Elements to the corporal concept of the Elementals.

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They are the elements. However, the terms are not mutually exclusive.

They are usually just mental voices, but they can manifest.

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I just want to avoid confusion between what people call the Elementals and the big five because both share nature and the word spirit, but function differently.

In Unbroken at best the spirit of wind manifests as pushing wind and the spirit of fire as confrontative fire, not once they manifest as elementals.

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