Actually, Monster's Guide says that elementals are bound to the world by "bracers" that form when they enter, and if they are damaged by an attack then the elemental gets sent back to their plane.

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Wait, does this mean that they always get sent back or that they can be killed here?

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You are become Vengeance, ravager of cunts.

Stop saying shut up all the time. It sounds so angry and harsh

Yes, it is said that Elementals return to the Elemental Plane. So be silent.
Most recent sources say Demon spirits return to the Twsiting Nether. So be silent.
The Ethereals pure form is elemental and their death animation shows them disappear somewhere. I have no idea about where they go, but I just think their inner chaotic energies disappear into the Nether or something.

See? I didnt say anything wrong. And dont complain at Ethereals. I said in that post that it was speculation on my part.

That's because I'm actually angry and being harsh at you, since softer methods haven't yielded any results.

The grown up kids are discussing the elemental thing now.

And on demons, no source says such thing. A novel even mentioned that a demon had been ressurected by Kil'jaeden, which means it actually died.

And I won't tolerate a spelling-impaired 14-year-old that is arrogant to the point of believing that he actually was the first to have the neutral races idea telling me to be silent. So you better play it cool.

Seeing as it's not decent speculation, I have to complain.

They dissipate. As in, they die. They aren't creatures from the Nether, even.

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You are become Vengeance, ravager of cunts.

Children! Shut the fuck up and keep this sweet and simple. If it causes more then 15 posts in discussion it means you start a new thread and link to it. Otherwise this isn't a direct Q&A thread, which is its primary purpose.

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Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.

Sorry Cantus. Continue it here.

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You are become Vengeance, ravager of cunts.

Well, while it´s true that they never specified how exactly she managed to resurrect him, his resurrection was a common theory when the description of his death at the hands of Kadghar was displayed in the WoW Lore pages.

As a consequence, the pure, virtuous spirit of Medivh was also allowed to live on... and wander the astral plane for many years to come.

Seriously, the main goal of this specific sentence is to be a gigantic HINT HINT.

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Warlock, Lord of Scrolls of Lore: Shut up, Timolas

Well, that was before we knew how he managed to come back. We knew he did, because we played Warcraft III, but how? Was he a ghost? Was that his original body?

We still don't really know much more than his mother tossed him a rez, so I wouldn't take it as confirmed that she didn't need or have his body. Likely, yes, but still speculative.

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Do you all think that Val'kyr are primarily an evil thing or are they just slaves to Arthas will? Like, do they exist naturally or did he create them?

Well, they're undead. Also, becoming a Val'kyr is said to be a "gift" of the Lich King, so I think he probably created them, probably as part of his role as the "Death God" and a major reason why Vykrul follow him.

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I believe that it was orginally stated that he Val'kyr were creaturs related to Spirit Healers, living the Spirit World which Arthas had taken control off.
Then, just like Vrykul Darkfallen, this was changed so that in the current lore, the Val'kyr are vrykul woman who has accepeted the Lich Kings "gift" of undeath. They are the equalent to the Ymirars or whatever they are called.

Jotun the Curse Bearer- Titan Level 80 elite

Anyone know his purpose in the game?

Nah. I'm pretty sure he's something blizz never got around to- probably intended to be an outdoor raid boss before they realized that outdoor raids don't work and they shifted philosophies to making raiding more accessible.


It could be that the "curse" refers to the curse of flesh and he was one of the first titanic creations affected by it.

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He's still stone though, so I don't know how accurate that speculation is. We have no idea what curse he bearing.

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It's kind of a shame about Jotun. If ever there were a chance to make use of him, it was with the release of Ulduar. Yet true to form with raids these days, Ulduar exists in a bubble of time and space entirely cut off from the actual quest mechanics and sense of linear story progression in the outside world.

Of course, the same could be said of the Explorer's League. Ulduar could've been their time to shine as a faction, but instead they're shoehorned into the Alliance Vanguard when at this point they should probably just be a neutral faction, since the players in both the Horde and Alliance are basically raiding Ulduar at their behest (not to mention they were indirectly involved in helping both factions in Silithus as well).

If Blizz really wants outdoor raid bosses, they should just make them outright unbeatable to begin with. Anchor them to a tether to prevent kiting, give them an insanely high boss level, massive health/armor/avoidance, unprecedented damage output and resistances, and no loot table (to start with). Render them unkillable, and let them stomp around for an expansion or two (or more. why not?), daring guilds to try the impossible and challenge them. Then gradually sync their stats and behavior toward the player levels with each expansion, until when Blizz finally decides to end the whole thing, they render the bosses killable and allow max-leveled and geared players to take a crack at them in the last expansion.

Just imagine, a dozen or so mysterious Titan constructs each roughly the size of Wyrmrest Temple, spread out and marching at the bottom of the sea around the entire perimeter of the known continents. Untouchable for years and years (literally) by even the most powerful players and raining doom upon any foolish enough to try their hand at it with each progressive increase in gear and stats as expansions bring higher levels and ever-stronger loot and encourage guilds to try, vain though it is. Then the final expansion pack comes along, and at long last the world's champions are expected to confront these monolithic behemoths as part of a quest involving an endgame raid. And with each one that falls, those within a certain proximity gain a sizable timed debuff preventing overly-aggressive farming by any single guild.

...ok, got a little bit carried away there...

I just miss the days of the occasional grossly over-leveled elite laying waste to entire groups of questing players, keeping people on their toes even in zones they outlevel. Lvl 35 Mor'ladim, how I miss you. Even as a lowbie alt, Duskwood just isn't as frightening these days.

But hey, there might still be some hope for Jotun. If they really try to bring things together in the end of WotLK, we may not have seen the last of the Titans' children in this expansion. Arthas just might end up with a pissed off army of Earthen, giants and Watchers knocking on Icecrown's door alongside the mortal races as payment for the debt to the players for defeating Loken and Yogg-Saron. After all, seems like when he reappears to confront Arthas (and it seems likely he will), Muradin might at least bring some Frostborn along.

Or maybe someday they'll toss in a few class-specific quests like the old-school hunter ones back in the days of MC and BWL, and have players go kill him for some quest drop that goes into building an epic weapon.

Or not.

We still don't know where watcher Tyr is, after all. For all he know, he's Jotun.

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I think we will see him in Uldum.
Its really the only place I could see him fit into.

There's no sense on Tyr being at Uldum.

No freaking sense. Just because he's titanic, that doesn't mean he's at Uldum.

He could have taken the portal to north Un'goro, and from there, went down, but, for what? He could have gone anywhere.

He could be anywhere.

Also, returning to Jotun: Blizzard and their never finished content.

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Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~

When a Mage summons a water elemental, is this a creature plucked from the Elemental Plane? If so, isn't that just as reckless as a warlock summoning a demon?

Or is the elemental conjured out of thin air, similar to how they can conjure bottles of water to drink? (Could they create a Muffin Man?)

Yes, it's plucked out of the elemental plane. The difference is that elementals are easier to keep under control than demons and some elementals actually manage to be from neutral to friendly.

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You are become Vengeance, ravager of cunts.

Most elementals exist in varying degrees and states between the Elemental Plane and Azeroth itself. They're a natural part of the world, and thus are being manifested from energies that are already present. The old Elemental Lords and those elemental spirits under their control are a lot more chaotic than the ordinary elemental forces and primarily limited to the Elemental Plane itself, as their presence in Azeroth generally results in all sorts of calamity since their chaotic nature isn't really very compatible with the ordered arrangement of the elements that are incorporated into Azeroth. Hence, summoning the likes of Ragnaros or his servants is indeed potentially every bit as reckless as summoning demons, but the ordinary elemental spirits that are usually summoned aren't driven by their nature to destroy the very world of which they're a part.

Unlike elementals, demons don't naturally belong on Azeroth. Their fel energies are a destructive and alien force in the world and, to a degree like the old Elemental Lords, their presence eventually causes damage to their surroundings over time. To make matters worse, while the elementals summoned by mages and shamans are still parts of the natural order of things, demons consciously strive to undo that order. In theory the voidwalkers summoned by warlocks might represent something even worse because, unlike demons, they don't even seem to be properly living beings in the way that most creatures including demon are. They're like living vacuums of negative energy and matter, siphoning the ambient life force of nearby creatures and physically degrading their surroundings just by being present. Even shadow energies are energy, but creatures of the Void seem to exist almost as living embodiments of emptiness and lacking, and might theoretically be even less natural and ultimately more dangerous to the planet's integrity if they ran amok than any demon that a warlock can summon.

As far as the how of summoning elementals, one must remember that in Azeroth the forces of the elements exist o all things. Earth, air, water and fire are fundamental aspects of the world, not just disparate energy forms that float around in certain places and not in others (in a way, that's how it used to be. The primodrial, chaotic elements are probably segregated into their own realms of the Elementa Plane because they aren't able to naturally coexist in balance, while in Azeroth the elements occupy an "overlapping" existence in which they are woven into a balanced, harmonious state throughout every facet of the world.) Thus calling upon a water elemental probably just amounts to drawing upon the sentient forces of water that permeate the mage's very surroundings and weaving them into the desired form. Kind of like how a shaman does it, only a bit..."ruder" I suppose, since the mage isn't exactly requesting the elements' permission to do so.

So summoning a water elemental is achieved by drying up the air and soul beneath you and coalescing it into a liquid form, like distilling?

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What? Its been stated in several quests etc that elementals from the Plane were released because Mages summoned them etc.

Yes, I imagine they could create a Muffin Man in the same way they create other golems. Instead of using stone or clay, they use muffin and infuse it with their magic.

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