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Old 10-26-2011, 05:00 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Crossed Swords (War2) Future of Alliance-Horde War, and Stromgarde, no QQ please

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I know I did talk about this subject when Cataclysm was the fresh, hot topic. I don't remember what my exact words were, though, and would love to read them again after seeing several people bring them up in this thread.

I'm pretty sure I never made any specific point that an equal amount of story and retribution would be dedicated to the Alliance in Cataclysm, because I was well aware of how most of the story would play out. The Horde made many more grabs for power and dominance when Thrall left. Then Thrall became the protagonist with the evolving story of each patch focusing on the efforts to defeat Deathwing.

The stories of the villains in the expansions so far have had pretty direct closure, but that's never been the case for the two player factions. And one shouldn't expect it to be with the conclusion of any expansion. Things will continue to change and there will be an ongoing tit-for-tat between the Horde and Alliance. If you start the story at Warcraft I and move forward, that's evident. Leaders have changed. Cities have been destroyed. New cities have been created. Land has been gained and lost. The races who have allied with either side have changed.

It's going to keep going and we have no ambitions to decisively make one faction less interesting or cool than the other. That's not a good design philosophy for two playable factions and it doesn't make for a flourishing story.

But you will win some and you will lose some. And the wins and losses won't be at equal intervals for both sides, aligning with the release of each patch or expansion.
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So, at BlizzCon we provided a few details about a new expansion and how it's going to have an ever-growing focus on the fight between the Horde and the Alliance in the wake of dispelling many very powerful threats to all of Azeroth. Then we find out a vague detail that some sort of unrelenting attack by the Horde on Theramore is to come. The Horde, to remind you, is currently a faction with an overzealous ruler and significant turmoil among their faction leaders; while the Alliance has almost never been quite so unified and far removed from the days of imprisoning orcs.

The first pawn on the chess board of what is to be the story for Mists of Pandaria is being moved, and you're angry at whose turn is first? I only offer that maybe there's a little more to the Horde and Alliance story lines in Mists than an Alliance town being leveled... like the entire expansion story you don't know about yet.

If you wanna make an omelette...
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[...] In Cataclysm, desperate times call for desperate measures. And that impact was not equal and 1:1 as far as Alliance and Horde went. The Warcraft universe, at its core, is based on the rivalry between two vastly different factions. To make sure they have shared hardships -- equal ups and downs at each interval -- is pretty boring and severely limits the character development of the leaders on both sides. And it leaves the story with a lack of momentum for building good content.

The Cataclysm only ignited a new flame between the Horde and the Alliance, as each side approached recovering from the crisis in very different ways. But they have something much more pressing to focus on in this expansion: helping Thrall and the Dragon Aspects kill Deathwing and his followers. They provide the overarching and primary conflict in Cataclysm that needs to be dealt with, not the fighting between the Horde and Alliance.

But once Deathwing goes and a new land of opportunity is discovered, who rebuilds, who explores, who defends and protects their people, and who seeks the pride of a conqueror?
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[...] What I'm hearing from people is, that Garrosh's Horde is attacking even more Alliance territory and it's not fair. As a player of both factions at level 85 and employee at Blizzard, I just don't fully agree with that assessment. From our perspective, one faction will assault a cherished town of the other faction -- which is also home to a very powerful and honorable figure in Jaina. There's now a conflict presented in the story there to further unfold in the next expansion.
This whole expansion is looking to really be involved with the war between the factions, when I first say Cataclysm I thought that Cataclysm was going to be half about the the War and half about the Twilight stuff. Now I see that the whole war thing was just being seeded for a future expansion just like the Zandalari and Naga are obviously eventually going to be relevant to an expansion(and other obvious ones I know I am forgetting).
With the inclusion of PVE battlegrounds I am pretty sold on the fact that this will be really war based.

So anyways a lot of complaining about Theramore being destroyed has arisen, I know at first I was butthurt about it but after 30 minutes or so I realized that I should wait for the story and for more details. Blue posters have said that Theramore is just the first pawn so I am 100% convinced that the Alliance will be doing something immediately and I expect both sides to be making advances and cutting at the other faction in more then just destroying Theramore and the Alliance's immediate revenge for that act.
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But once Deathwing goes and a new land of opportunity is discovered, who rebuilds, who explores, who defends and protects their people, and who seeks the pride of a conqueror?
This stood out to me, I don't know if to take it as poetic language to just give people something to ponder and quell complaining or if we will actually see improvements made to the world such as Sentinel Hill being phased to a complete city.
I also think that Blizzard might add a couple of quests quests per zone to go along with the whole war theme, so maybe an orc landing in Westfall, or blood elves in the Wetlands.

So my small bit on Stromgarde. I don't think it will be retaken at the 5.0 event, I think that it will be saved for a patch and will add some fun quests and maybe add a PVE Battleground in Arathi with Stromgarde vs Hammerfall.

But anyways how exactly do you think the war will evolve through MoP?

I am guessing that it won't be a perfect mirror of victories and losses but both sides will have clear wins and losses that make the factions feel good.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:12 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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Alliance loses Theramore.
Horde grabs a new big coastal base.

Alliance gains Lordaeron/Capital City.
Forsaken relocate to Gilneas, the dark architecture fits them.

Alliance gains Stromgarde and Arathi/Hammerfal.
Forsaken gain Durnholde Keep and Thoradin's Wall.

Forsaken gain Alterac.
Alliance gains Ambermill+New Base around Dalaran crater.

Forsaken gain Pyrewood and Shadowfang Keep.
Alliance gains Lordamere Lake+Isles and the Keep on it.

Stratholme rebuilt and shiny for Argent Crusade.
Andorhal rebuilt and shiny in Forsaken architecture.

Chillwind Camp+Uther's Tomb fortified as a base for the Alliance.
Ranger Camp in EPL next to Quel'thalas fortified for the Alliance, mini war vs. high elves and blood elves.

Alliance gains Kul Tiras.

Darkspear gain Yojamba Isles+Ruins directly east of it as a large forward base.
Darkspear gain Alcaz Island.

Tauren retake Camp Taraujo and rebuild it.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:20 PM
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Is that a wishlist, speculation, or a joke?
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:21 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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I would be in denial if I said I didn't want Lordaeron reclaimed for the Alliance, however unlikely that is.

But my post is really just some suggestions thrown around.

I don't know much about the content of Pandaria to comment on it so I'm focusing on bases in the old world.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:33 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Is that a wishlist, speculation, or a joke?
All of the above?

Sorry, but I'd rather have Gilneas than Lordaeron.

If Forsaken had to fork over Undercity, then they would need a massive presence in Wetlands and other Dwarf lands... and that just ain't gonna happen, chum.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:35 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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Is it possible for you guys to focus on other parts of the post than Lordaeron?
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:37 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Gadinhad View Post
Is it possible for you guys to focus on other parts of the post than Lordaeron?
I apologize there, bit of an ill mood at this hour.

Uhm, I suppose it's okay. I think EPL should remain largely neutral since it's mostly a home of the Argent Crusade, plus the Alliance already has good enough presence next to Uther's Tomb.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:38 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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To be honest, I was debating whether or not to include the Lordaeron part because of obvious reasons.

I know it's a fragile topic, but hey. And if the current architecture on top of the Undercity would stay, I'd probably rather have Gilneas too.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadinhad View Post
To be honest, I was debating whether or not to include the Lordaeron part because of obvious reasons.

I know it's a fragile topic, but hey. And if the current architecture on top of the Undercity would stay, I'd probably rather have Gilneas too.
are you kidding? I think Lordaeron's architecture is the best in the game.
Personally, I don't like Gilnaes' look. It's just too... crooked. Everything is off, there is no balance.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:49 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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And if the current architecture on top of the Undercity would stay, I'd probably rather have Gilneas too.
Huh? Why wouldn't it?
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Wasn't Thoradin a dwarf?
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You are right Fojar.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:52 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Did you meant like being in ruins or what? Because I doubt the forsaken mind that
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:53 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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Huh? Why wouldn't it?
Well, Vyrin, because it's ruined and old. And it's also kind of bland with all the grey. I'm sure if they are planning to do something with the top, it will be given at least a refurbishment.



I can't find a pic of Lordaeron in the Warcraft 3 early cinematic, but it looked absolutely stunning.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:57 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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I'm not sure if we'll ever see capital cities being traded or not. I'd be all for it but there's just this gut feeling in me that says it won't happen.

Also, I'd like to see the conclusion of the Battle for Stromgarde as a massive raid instance myself.
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Old 10-26-2011, 05:59 PM
Rufin Rufin is offline

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Originally Posted by Gadinhad View Post
Well, Vyrin, because it's ruined and old. And it's also kind of bland with all the grey. I'm sure if they are planning to do something with the top, it will be given at least a refurbishment.



I can't find a pic of Lordaeron in the Warcraft 3 early cinematic, but it looked absolutely stunning.
Not talking about the fact that its in ruins (although that is what gives it that chiller feel) i'm referring to the architectural style in general, domes, arches, spirals, etc. Compare that to Gilnaes which is all crooked and bizarre and i'll take Lordaeron any day.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufin View Post
Not talking about the fact that its in ruins (although that is what gives it that chiller feel) i'm referring to the architectural style in general, domes, arches, spirals, etc. Compare that to Gilnaes which is all crooked and bizarre and i'll take Lordaeron any day.
Victorian England vs Rome-ish Architecture?
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:04 PM
Rufin Rufin is offline

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Victorian England vs Rome-ish Architecture?
yeah.
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Yes mixed raced people have the race card. I would think they had more race cards than most.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:06 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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To be quite honest, I just now went over to RoL and took a good glance over, and I really like it. I was basing off what I saw a few months ago and I guess I just needed a better look. I like the architecture.

Beautiful.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/228...2611210015.jpg

Also, allow me to digress just a little, but what is with this. Has this stuff been here ALL cataclysm?

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/8...2611210036.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2...2611210047.jpg
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:08 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gadinhad View Post
To be quite honest, I just now went over to RoL and took a good glance over, and I really like it. I was basing off what I saw a few months ago and I guess I just needed a better look. I like the architecture.

Beautiful.
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/228...2611210015.jpg

Also, allow me to digress just a little, but what is with this. Has this stuff been here ALL cataclysm?

http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/8...2611210036.jpg
http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/2...2611210047.jpg
It's their Hallow's End quest to get the Creepy Crate.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:08 PM
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I've always found the top of Undercity weird.

Even after it was filled in, it didn't feel like anyone... LIVED there.

It felt like a fancy Garden.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
I've always found the top of Undercity weird.

Even after it was filled in, it didn't feel like anyone... LIVED there.

It felt like a fancy Garden.
I like the undead there wearing fancy clothes and drinking wine.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:20 PM
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I like the undead there wearing fancy clothes and drinking wine.
Oh great, what next? Hipster Zombies?

I was sooo totally dead before it was cool.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:21 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
Is that a wishlist, speculation, or a joke?
Speculation on what will come of the war, and I guess discussion on it.

Oops I read it wrong, thought you were asking about the point of the thread.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:23 PM
Iliya Iliya is offline

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All kidding aside, the biggest obstacle for me thinking of how to contribute would be wondering just how far the CDevs are going to actually change the game itself.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:24 PM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iliya View Post
All kidding aside, the biggest obstacle for me thinking of how to contribute would be wondering just how far the CDevs are going to actually change the game itself.
Or how far the game development team would let them go.
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Old 10-26-2011, 06:24 PM
Sarahmoo Sarahmoo is offline

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I really don't think too much about Stromgarde. It's been on the cusp of being the next big thing for seven years now.
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