Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > Scrolls of Lore > General Discussion
Reload this Page What Makes an RPG?
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:08 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

Elune
Erthad's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stromgarde
Posts: 6,253
BattleTag: Erthad #1438
Footman What Makes an RPG?
What makes an RPG?

I have seen people complain that Mass Effect lost a lot of it's RPG elements going into #2. I have also seen people say that Skyrim shouldn't even be considered an RPG.

Should a good RPG be more about the story and less about the world/setting?

Should the story be more centralized around one character(the player), and should they impact the story greatly?

Is crafting your character in a story way(bastard or saint) the most important?(Or how important?, is it needed?)
Is defining their role needed? Creating a Knight who is very defensive, being able to shrug off enemy attacks because of armor, high health, and a shield. Or a Mage to summon arcane energies to destroy enemies, or making a witch and only using abilities to confuse enemies and summon demons and undead, being able to customize them.

Should you be able to do what ever you want in the setting or should your role be outlined.

Basically what do you think good RPGs should be about?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:21 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 26,522
BattleTag: Omacron#1477
Default
A good RPG is about choice. That choice can be about gameplay (such as choosing the stats and abilities of your player character), it can be about story choices like choosing to romance someone or kill someone else, or it can even be as meta as choices in building your actual world like Minecraft or SimCity.


What is not an RPG is a game wherein there's only one course of action throughout the game. Modern "corridor" shooters, adventure games with only one path, 90s FMV games and the like. I'm personally wondering if WoW is an RPG anymore due to the prevalence of things like cookie cutter builds and ElitistJerks so that each character is built pretty much the same way... while the choice is there it's so undesirable it's effectively gone.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:36 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

Elune
Erthad's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stromgarde
Posts: 6,253
BattleTag: Erthad #1438
Footman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
A good RPG is about choice. That choice can be about gameplay (such as choosing the stats and abilities of your player character), it can be about story choices like choosing to romance someone or kill someone else, or it can even be as meta as choices in building your actual world like Minecraft or SimCity.


What is not an RPG is a game wherein there's only one course of action throughout the game. Modern "corridor" shooters, adventure games with only one path, 90s FMV games and the like. I'm personally wondering if WoW is an RPG anymore due to the prevalence of things like cookie cutter builds and ElitistJerks so that each character is built pretty much the same way... while the choice is there it's so undesirable it's effectively gone.
I think choice is a reasonable definition but is that too broad? Is Minecraft really an RPG or is a line drawn somewhere?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:37 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 26,522
BattleTag: Omacron#1477
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
I think choice is a reasonable definition but is that too broad? Is Minecraft really an RPG or is a line drawn somewhere?
The line is drawn at linearity.

Dohoho.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:39 PM
Chef Chef is offline

Arch-Druid
Chef's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Your kitchen
Posts: 1,715

Default
I say that if you want a good RPG, you should stick to good ol' Dungeons and Dragons.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:45 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

Elune
Ashendant's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 10,280
BattleTag: Ashendant#2130
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chef View Post
I say that if you want a good RPG, you should stick to good ol' Dungeons and Dragons.
Warhammer 40k RPG is pretty good

(except for the fact that they slam Chaos everywhere...)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:47 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

Elune
Erthad's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Stromgarde
Posts: 6,253
BattleTag: Erthad #1438
Footman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
The line is drawn at linearity.

Dohoho.
But you can always find ways around that. In Halo:Reach there were some levels that had objectives that could be completed in different orders, even Halo: Combat Evolved had that. Also the Forge mode allowed you to make new maps.


Is Starcraft an RPG because you can go bio, mech, or air?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:52 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 26,522
BattleTag: Omacron#1477
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
But you can always find ways around that. In Halo:Reach there were some levels that had objectives that could be completed in different orders, even Halo: Combat Evolved had that. Also the Forge mode allowed you to make new maps.


Is Starcraft an RPG because you can go bio, mech, or air?
Alright, let me be a bit more specific: an RPG has different goals or end scenarios within its units, be they maps, levels, dungeons, set pieces, quest endings, whatever. Taking different routes to the same end point usually does not constitute an RPG unless they differ to the point where they constitute a significantly different gameplay or narrative experience.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-07-2012, 05:52 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

Site Staff - Moderator
Revenant's Avatar
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 6,846

Default
I define the genre as a game where you play a role, and answer the question of "what would you do?"
__________________
...what just happened?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-07-2012, 06:15 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

Arch-Druid
Wabbajack's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,988

Darkmoon Card: Twisting Nether
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
Warhammer 40k RPG is pretty good

(except for the fact that they slam Chaos everywhere...)
Technically Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch and Black Crusade are four similar yet different PnP RPGs.


Also: Best PnP RPG is Dungeons: The Dragoning 40k 7th Edition
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-07-2012, 06:57 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

Elune
Ashendant's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 10,280
BattleTag: Ashendant#2130
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
Technically Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, Deathwatch and Black Crusade are four similar yet different PnP RPGs.


Also: Best PnP RPG is Dungeons: The Dragoning 40k 7th Edition
I know they are intertwined a lot, doesn't stop them from being good, and Deathwatch would be really good if a RPG that is about fighting Xenos didn't have a third of the book dedicated to Non-xenos chaos...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:01 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

Arch-Druid
Wabbajack's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,988

Darkmoon Card: Twisting Nether
There's Mark of the Xenos and Creatures Anathema (a Dark Heresy Book) for all your xenos need.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:02 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

Elune
Ashendant's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 10,280
BattleTag: Ashendant#2130
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
There's Mark of the Xenos and Creatures Anathema (a Dark Heresy Book) for all your xenos need.
A third of the Mark of the Xenos is about Daemons... and another third is about Heretics and inquisitors...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:07 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

Hypersensitive
Euphemialibritannia's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,306

Default
I would say as long as there is character building, whether linear like old school JRPGs or nonlinear, makes it an rpg. Although it doesn't necessarily have to be just rpg to be classified as such, heck even stuff with minimal growth like Bioshock I'd consider an rpg.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:13 PM
Wabbajack Wabbajack is offline

Arch-Druid
Wabbajack's Avatar
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,988

Darkmoon Card: Twisting Nether
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
A third of the Mark of the Xenos is about Daemons... and another third is about Heretics and inquisitors...
67 pages on Xenos, 18 on Heretics and 29 on Chaos.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:19 PM
Kadifa Kadifa is offline

Arch-Druid
Kadifa's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,431

Default
An RPG is not just about you the player or you the character. It's also about the characters that you meet, whether they be companions, villains or otherwise.

Give me a cliche-ridden story if you must. But put in characters that are compelling and that I would always remember.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-07-2012, 07:20 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

Elune
Ashendant's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Portugal
Posts: 10,280
BattleTag: Ashendant#2130
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wabbajack View Post
67 pages on Xenos, 18 on Heretics and 29 on Chaos.
... still too much chaos, and it focused too much on the main enemies

Al trough i gotta admit the Chaos/Soul robots were pretty cool, specially the Gargoyle-like planetary doomsday robot

I just feel that for a game about killing Xenos there too little Xenos and too much chaos, mainly there isn't any Xenos races explored besides the main ones(Ork, Tyranid, Tau), the Tau in this series however are amazing, just amazing.

EDIT:Creatures Anathema had some really cool one like the Enoulians, Simulacra and the Cruorian War Beast (would be really cool to see a inquisitor using that thing)
__________________
Last edited by Ashendant : 01-07-2012 at 07:28 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:02 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

Eternal
Fordragon's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Furillo, Furillo Province, Grand Duchy of Furillo
Posts: 4,501

Default
It needs three things:

1- Character arcs. Some characters in the game need to develop and grow somehow. Skyrim doesn't do this, which is why I consider it a fantasy sandbox game, a GTA: Ren Fair.

2- exploration. Even if it's just side rooms in dungeons that have treasure or going to other towns earlier than in the plot or backtracking to old towns because there's some extra thing there (e.g. In Chrono Trigger, you get short scenes where your party members meet Crono's mom, or going to Lucca's house to get new gear).

3- A mechanic for finite growth. Generally this means a level cap to keep you from maxing every stat and skill, or at least a point where the XP curve becomes extraordinarily high (like in Chrono Trigger around level 65+, or Fallout 2 after level 24 or so).
__________________
"Damn, snowcone, what were you for Halloween, a bitch? You best be ready for this shit, Cranberry Juice, cuz you bout to get FUCKED." -L Dubba E
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:11 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is online now

Eternal
Gortrash's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,935

Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
I define the genre as a game where you play a role, and answer the question of "what would you do?"
By that definition that's every game you ever played.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:28 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 26,522
BattleTag: Omacron#1477
Default
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
It needs three things:

1- Character arcs. Some characters in the game need to develop and grow somehow. Skyrim doesn't do this, which is why I consider it a fantasy sandbox game, a GTA: Ren Fair.

2- exploration. Even if it's just side rooms in dungeons that have treasure or going to other towns earlier than in the plot or backtracking to old towns because there's some extra thing there (e.g. In Chrono Trigger, you get short scenes where your party members meet Crono's mom, or going to Lucca's house to get new gear).

3- A mechanic for finite growth. Generally this means a level cap to keep you from maxing every stat and skill, or at least a point where the XP curve becomes extraordinarily high (like in Chrono Trigger around level 65+, or Fallout 2 after level 24 or so).
I don't think 1 and 3 are required for an RPG at all. The former is just for stories, and an RPG doesn't necessarily need a story, and the latter is just silly.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:43 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

Eternal
Fordragon's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Furillo, Furillo Province, Grand Duchy of Furillo
Posts: 4,501

Default
Generally role-playing requires some kind of character arc, even a minor one. It's the difference between role-playing and wargaming. And "just silly" isn't an intelligent argument. Having a framework for character growth has been a thing since Chainmail; I just didn't want to limit it to levels because, for example, SWG gained skills instead.
__________________
"Damn, snowcone, what were you for Halloween, a bitch? You best be ready for this shit, Cranberry Juice, cuz you bout to get FUCKED." -L Dubba E
Reply With Quote
Reply

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:44 PM.

Scrolls of Lore - Archive - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.