I'm not putting it into a death camp, I'm just boycotting it.

Uh... TYRANDE. First of all. Agressive and steadfast, but caring towards those she knows and loves in WC3. Some sort of saintly protector of everybody in Well of Eternity. Good fighter who can take care of herself in WC3. Damsel in Distress who gets kidnapped in WotA. Especially considering the fact that she was NEVER kidnapped in the manual. (Plus, the only time she even gets "Kidnapped" in WC3 is when she gets sent downriver into the heart of the scourge's territory. And she spends an infinite amount of time fighting them off in that.)

Furion, from what I saw was okay. Didn't see enough of him to say for sure.

Azshara is suddenly oblivious and has very little to do with the actual storyline.

Cenarius was kindof grandfatherly from what I saw too. Not very Cenarius at all. Uh... yeah.

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

Yeah, cause like people don't change over ten thousand years....

Do you really expect someone that has lived for over 10000 years to be the same person later on when the race she lives in does a huge social shift and she has to be the one to lead it? You have to remember that at the time she was just a priestess with some ability in hunting, not a skilled amazon protecting the sleeping druids.

Time changes people, and while Malfurion gained the serenity to keep most of his personality, Tyrande had to go a very long time with the stress of leadership and a serious case of depression from having to let her true love sleep in the dream.

I will admit her overall involvement fell off the map in comparison to the WC3 manual, but thats not a bad thing. Its a light change to her personality and fits her better IMHO, since I like her as the "never get your hands dirty" type of queen.

You have only seen Cenarius twice, in the book and in WC3. If you continued reading the book and saw Cenarius fight the Burning Legion, you would see the fury at which he would fight them, and the Cenarius in WC3 simply saw the orcs in the same light, which is why he went crazy on them. The Burning Legion did almost kill him, and because of it his father died trying to protect him. Its not something even a demi-god can get over that easy.

In the end, we have to just deal with the fact that most of the stuff in the WarCraft 3 manual has been changed thanks to time travel. In the end you can accept it or not, but it has happened, and no matter which one you go with, the development of the character still makes sense as long as you take the time to look at it.

People rarely ever change.

Yes. I expect her to be the same person at least at the very basic level. More experienced? Yes. But a completely different personality? Give me a break.

Why the hell would DEPRESSION make her an independant strong woman? Pining over her love would make her strong and independant? That makes no sense.

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

Maybe being alone for thousands of years without her husband turned her into a bitch?

Hey, if four years can warp Kael and Illidan into bitches I'm not surprised 10, 000 years gave Tyrande an attitude.

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The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury. -Marcus Aurelius, the true Emperor of Rome

Illidan was already a bitch.

Bitchier then.

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The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury. -Marcus Aurelius, the true Emperor of Rome

No offense, but how old are you Aldrius? Unless your best friend is a tree, the people you know will change, some more drastic then others, the girl you met that was a sweet sensative poet might be a psycho killer in ten years.

Everyone I know has changed since they were younger. I have changed since I was younger. I used to be a jerk who didn't care for anyone in my high school years. After settling with my girl and getting more experiance in life, I have calmed a lot, have become more shy, and don't say means things to people anymore (ok, well not as much as I used to) and I am only 24. Most people I talk with from my past think I am a different person.

You may think people rarely change, but the truth is that people change all the time, some simply less drastic then others, its part of human development.

I will have to disagree with you, I don't think her personality changed at all, its just she didn't show her true personality in WC3. Her personality in TFT is very similar to the personality we see at the end of WOTA. Why would she not act how she normally does? Continue down.

Depression and independence are not mutually exclusive, nor does depression prevent someone from being independent. Its called a mask, and people will often compensate for inner emotions by acting the opposite of what they really feel, often in an extreme manner. In this case Tyrande missed Malfurion and was stressed after years of battle upholding the Long Vigil, but as leader of the Night Elves she could not show weakness, and so she became super-bitch to hide her sorrow and frustration.

Like I said, in TFT, she mellows out considerably because she finally had time to be with Malfurion agian without the threat of destruction, and becomes much more like the person you see her as at the end of WOTA.

I think in the end, Malfurion and Tyrande themselves said it best.

Malfurion: "You've changed.... Tyrande... There is little mercy left in you..."

Tyrande: "Long ago I swore to protect this land furion, I never had the luxury of sleeping through times of great peril."

Malfurion: "If your endless vigil has hardened you my love, it must be part of your goddesses plan"

What does that have to do with anything? I'm 17, and I think as a person. I've changed a TON. But fandamentally? I'm the same person I was when I was 4. I'm smarter, yes. I understand more, yes. I've realized more about myself, and I'm much more self-aware. I understand that people change, and I think Tyrande has changed. I just think that again, at her most basic she's the same person. She's an extremist and she's emotional. She smashes those who she hates, and loves those she loves with all her heart. (i.e. Illidan and Furion)

Well I can't comment on that. I haven't read the last WotA book. But really, how was Tyrande acting in tFT? She wasn't that different from RoC. She was still treating the people she loved with compassion. Still loving with Furion, still pleading for Illidan to redeem himself. And she was treating those she didn't like, like Maiev like second-class citizens. And those she hated (the undead) well she just smashed them.

That I understood... but I don't think MISSING Malfurion alone would make her 'super-bitch'. She didn't trust the Outlanders, and even when they came in peace she still was apprehensive to listen to them. Only when Jaina suggested that Thrall and her put their and their warriors lives on the line for the World Tree did Tyrande recognize them as noble people worthy of her protection.

I'm not trying to say she should be MEAN and xenophobic in WotA (or a 'super-bitch')... but that confidence she has in RoC didn't come from nowhere. That mistrust of outside races didn't just show up because Grom killed Cenarius (even though she said so).

Also: Tyrande talks to Broxigar like a child. Tyrande has no patience. She has patience for Illidan, but that's a completely different case.

And she talks like a woman from 16th century britain. "Are you alright Malfurion? You look as if chilled..."

Does that really sound like something Tyrande would say? It sounds like she's describing him like a science experiment... then again, they all talk like that.

Anyway, I've spent like half an hour staring at this, and I can't really focus so I'll leave it at that for now.

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

I was simply curious, because for most people, the most drastic life change happens out of high school and college, its when I changed the most.

"She smashes those who she hates, and loves those she loves with all her heart. (i.e. Illidan and Furion)" That is a very general term, and is pretty much how most leaders feel.

She made a pledge to keep up the Long Vigil, thousands of years of keeping others outside of Ashenvale, to her the Outlanders were no different then the countless other races that came to threaten her pledge.

My issue here is that you are trying to connect Tyrande as she was when she was still technically a young elf, training at the temple and barely even understanding her own emotions for the Stormrage twins, with one that has spent 10,000 years hardened for battle while being thrust into the roll of leadership literally overnight. She went from Novice to High Priestess within one breath of the former High Priestess.

Its just not how it works, its like trying to connect Thrall with how he was early on in Durnholde. Early Durnholde? Timid, unsure of himself, never really one to speak up to his captors. He grows, and now he is hard, centered, and outspoken to all those that oppose him.

She was very different from RoC.

She was a lot more calm, listening more to Malfurion and pushing less of her own feelings onto him. Also you are exaggeratting with Maiev, as Tyrande never treated her like a "second-class citizen". She spoke a bit cold to Maiev in the begining because Maiev basically gave her a verbal bitchslap for letting Illidan free. She is even much more open to outsiders, and worked with Kael out of honor and duty, where if she was the same as RoC she would instantly distrust them.

She still was an amazon, but she was softer, not nearly as single minded as she was during the Third War. She had time to finally settle and get over some of her anger.

You are right, it didn't come from nowhere, it came from 10,000 years of leadership. That is not something she gets in the span of a book.

No, but frankly, it doesn't matter. Here was an opportunity to explore and articulate a piece of history we were vaguely acquainted with and instead it just confused the matter. Did we really need Rhonin and Krasus to go back in time for the War of the Ancients to be a compelling read? Even if you go for these masturbatory indulgences, that doesn't really change that. I know less about the War of the Ancients than I did going in. Let's pretend for a second that it wasn't terribly written and reduced every character to a caricature, that it was entertaining, that it seemed remotely conscious of the world it was set in. It STILL further confused the history it dealt with.
Tyrande, Azshara, Malfurion, Cenarius, Illidan, Shandris, Vashj... shall I go on? The only people who acted in character were the characters of Knaak's creation. And you can rationalize it all you want, with the 10 millennia excuse and the offscreen drama excuse, but that's a total cop out. If Maiev was so unrecognizably different back then from now, then all she had in common was a name. So we get past Maiev and present Maiev with no character development, no transformation, no explanation for why she does what she does. We can guess, we can fill in some gaps on our own, but just flashing before and after photos aren't interesting or compelling in any capacity.

So wait... you don't think they should be REMOTELY similar? 'cause Tyrande doesn't even SOUND the same. I mean, she doesn't even use the same words and phrases that she used in WC3.

I dunno, she was listening to Furion in RoC from the moment he showed up pretty much. Except for when he was telling her what to do and when he was trying to defend what she saw as a powerful enemy. And she treated Maiev very coldly throught the whole time they were together. She was just tactful about it because she didn't want to waste time. She helped Kael because they were in a foreign land, if a bunch of Blood Elves showed up in Ashenvale and started cutting down trees again, and there was no reason to believe they were associated with Jaina, Tyrande would probably be like "SMASH!" once again. Maybe not with so much disdain, but I don't think she'd be asking for ID. But that's a tricky issue, because she'd probably HAVE to find out what they were up to, and who they were working for in case they were part of Jaina's government, and if she attacked, risk sublimenting the humans' wrath... yeah.

How so? Furion, Jaina and Thrall are very objective and try to find better solutions to their problems. Terenas was more stubborn. Kael was very confused as to what the right path was. Meanwhile, Tyrande is a much more emotional person, and it's really either her way or the grave. At least that's what I think.

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

If you mean how she speaks, as you said yourself, all of them did that, its part of the style of the writer. Even so its not unheard of even in WC3, Malfurion had his own fits of ole english in WC3, I mean just look at his first sentences.

"Come forth, ye defenders of old"

They try to find better solutions when the person they are fighting is not someone that they "hate". Thrall does not hate the humans, and Jaina does not hate the orcs, and Malfurion does not hate any of them. This does not go to other races however, the real ones each factions hates. Are you telling me Thrall wants to make peace with Rend Blackhand? No, he wants his head chopped off and brought to him as a trophy.

Tyrande is the same, and will fight to protect rather then destroy if the person is not an open enemy that she hates. She even saved Eranikus when she could have just killed him for his corruption and possible cause of keeping her lover locked in the Dream.

WC3 was only one source, one in a time of Tyrande's life when she needed to be harder and more brutal, but she was not that way earlier in life, like I even quoted Malfurion saying from WC3, he noticed her having changed.

I personally still see her as Tyrande, only younger and inexperianced in WOTA. It was the Long Vigil that made her grow more bitch-happy, and now that such is over she has moved on to be like what she should be, the High Priestess and the word of Elune.

How she speaks, and what she says. It doesn't... suit her at all. Eh.

You know what? I think he left out her accent too...

Malfurion's little olde english spiel works for him there because it's an announcement, and it makes for a nice introduction. It wouldn't have the same power if he said "Hey, I'm back!" the olde english gives it... style. Whereas 'you appear chilled" is lifeless.

No, they ALWAYS find better solutions. Tyrande would not have listened to Medivh more than likely. Something all three of the others did indeed.

I'm sure he WANTS to, but knows he can't.

Yes, but Erankius was someone who was being corrupted by the dream. She was trying to save him. An aspect of darkness. Not someone she didn't know and trust. If he was just some black dragon, Tyrande would have SMASHED. Because she has no tact and no subtelty unless she absolutely has to.

It's the only story-oriented game she's appeared in, though. And as such, it's our only source on her character.

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

I'm inclined to agree that many of the characters seemed a bit off-centered in their portrayals (in the past anyway. I guess Thrall was pretty well kept the same during his brief appearances.) Gonna have to disagree on Cenarius though. In-game we only ever actually met him through the eyes of Grom, who was on the receiving end of the demigod's wrath. Sure, from that standpoint Cenarius was all anger and righeous fury. However, I could easily imagine him acting differently toward his allies and pupils than he would toward what he perceived to be the beginnings of a demonic invasion.

The rest though...Azshara reduced to a dimwitted, preening airhead concerned only with maintaining a steady presence of fawning admirers and looking her best when the Dark Titan arrived? Sure, it's never exactly been indicated that the Highborne acquired their power through a strong work ethic and dedication to knowledge itself during their studies of the Well (quite the opposite actually, since they seemed more interested in quantity than in quality of arcane magic), but it just seemed ridiculous that the most powerful of them all would be the stupidest and most ignorant one as well. All around her various Highborne started to realize what was really going on, yet she remained blissfully oblivious to everything, even going so far as to be convinced that it was Sargeras who would be subordinate to her when he finally came, since her simplistically portrayed mindset couldn't even conceive of a being greater than herself. In short, the Azshara of the WotA trilogy was essentially a fancily dressed moron , almost like she was nothing but a figurehead manipulated by the likes of Xavius even before the Legion contacted their world. The same disappointment applies to Vashj. As one of the empress's favored Highborne attendants, in keeping with Azshara's own shallow portrayal she was made into a sniveling, attention-mongering sycophant who, despite being a Highborne with supposed access to impressive magical power, resorts to trying to stab Tyrande with a knife to maintain her exalted position. With all that power, you'd think once Elune's protective light was gone a Highborne could just blast Tyrande apart.

Didn´t you thought that the Tyrande in Frozen Throne was kinda like the one portrayed in the trilogy, after getting through with the ordeals of the third war she seemed very friendly with members of other races, specifically Kael when she helped him and his crew getting safe passage in the Plaguelands when she had very important business of her own, she was alot more relaxed in the Frozen Throne while in the Reign of Chaos, she was still the hardened general that protected Kalimdor for 10.000 years with very few contact with the person he loved, like SchyteRexx said, Furion noticed how much she changed when Tyrande was so keen on killing the orcs and humans, even the original warcraft 3 manual says that she holded resentment for being the sole leader protecting the Night elven land which probably helped with her bitchy attitude in RoC.

I´ll agree with Azshara though, in the original timeline she was alot more active and was instrumental in the original invasion of the Burning legion and like ARM said, she was pretty much only a good dressed moron who liked to drink.

Well, i was never expecting Vashj to be the same when she was just a Highborne maid in service to Azshara nor was i expecting her to be very sane, i think the trasnsition of Night elf to Naga probably twisted her mind to the manipulative (but also loyal) bitch she is today, maybe her admiration for Azhsara was exagerated in the book but i liked her, she probably didn´t blasted Tyrande´s ass because she wanted a stealthy assassination.

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Warlock, Lord of Scrolls of Lore: Shut up, Timolas

The thing is, Vicious, that I can accept that Tyrande changed over the millennia, and that makes sense. But seriously, what did she DO? What did she do to earn the respect of the Sisters and her people? With her modified role, she was entirely removed from the action. She barely led the Sisters at all during the war. She was promoted, got kidnapped, and we never see her again until the Well's blown up. There's nothing here assertive or leaderworthy about her, and were I a night elf ten thousand years ago, I would give some serious consideration to letting Marinda keep the position. The book makes Tyrande out to be Elune's chosen, which basically means Elune's doing all the work and Tyrande's just sitting there. Tyrande wasn't in her established ROC era character, but she had nothing of her established WOTA era character either.

And here's the thing about Vashj. Think about her now. Is she loyal to Azshara? No, she abandoned Nazjatar for Illidan, and we don't really know why. In the current era, Vashj isn't portrayed as a gullible, stupid person. She is intelligent, she has some degree of insight and cunning, and she knows how to use people. Yet, evidently, when she met Illidan, she believed whatever he told her, despite his terrible track record for deception, particularly with the highborne. War of the Ancients would've been the perfect opportunity to explore Vashj's relationship with Illidan, instead she becomes what everyone else becomes: a caricature of a single facet of her character.

And ARM, while I do agree that Cenarius would act differently to different situations, remember that he DID fight in the war. But when he fights in the war, I don't see a resolute demigod, I see... that cop that shows up late to a shootout with reinforcements and says "You'd think I'd miss this party?"

Not the one I read about in the first book. Besides, I don't think people develop backwards.

Well, first of all I don't think Tyrande's ever been friendly with anyone in her entire life. She was cordial and kind to the Blood Elves, but I think that was more because she felt she owed them than anything. Remember a major theme of Tyrande's character in tFT was guilt. She probably felt guilty for jumping to such harsh conclusions in regards to the 'outlanders' in RoC. However, I think this was NEW development. Not something she lost in the Long Vigil.

She's relaxed in the First RoC NE mission too. There's just no sense of urgency until the Legion shows up and she has to do stuff. There's no real sense of urgency in tFT either. It's a fairly isolated incident and she's not really all that interesting in saving someone she doesn't like and helping her take out someone she loves.

I'm not saying she was 'bitchy' back in WotA-time. But I have a problem with how kind-hearted and patient she is with Brox (guess I should have been more specific before). I dunno, I guess I always thought of Tyrande's backstory as someone who was a little spoiled, a little fawned over. More parts spoiled brat, less parts nun. The whole being completely obsessed with helping him at the complete disregard for others is part of her character, though I think.

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

Lets get back on topic here. I personally like Shadow of the Xel'Naga. Come on didn't it even make you slightly smile when General Duke was forced to weed plants.

And the novel Starcraft Ghost was pretty nice actually. And in answer to previous questions yes there are potential characters for a Starcraft 2 found in the novel.

Hm. Who are they?

I'm guessing Nova. What's she like?

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My father was killed by a coward's poison and the wrath of Hellscream...! WHAT CHANCE HAVE YOU!!?

Obviously Nova. Well Nova is fairly complex. By the end of the Novel she becomes like any other ghost albeit more powerful. She becomes brainwashed by the Terran Dominion Ghost program. A cold killer who would obey anything Mengsk ordered.

However before she was brainwashed she was pretty screwed up. She witness her family murder. She learns her sister was the one who planned it. Then she becomes a mind reading puppet for a gang in Tarsonis.

The other potential character I had in mind was Agent Kelerchian. A good cop who basically wanted justice served. However he tried to take down someone from the "Old Families"(the ruling class of the Confederacy). So he becomes a wrangler, someone who hunts for psychics to add to the Ghost program. By the end of the book Mengsk sends him to a suicide mission becouse he seems to not be 100% loyal to Mengsk.