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  #251  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:01 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Admittedly, a lot of the Aspects' shortcomings could stem from the Titans apparently deciding that it would be hilarious to not tell their creations about the very Old Gods they were expected to keep from screwing up the planet. From the Aspects to the Watchers, the Pantheon's appointed protectors come across as frighteningly ignorant concerning the enemies from which they're actually supposed to be protecting Azeroth. Consequently, at no time during our conflicts with the Old Gods has it ever seemed like the Titans' servants had any idea what they were doing. It's one rushed patch job after another once disaster strikes, with plenty of "That's right, isn't there an Old God down there? Plumb forgot all about that!" moments.

So really, on some level the Aspects could have spent a lot of time twiddling their thumbs through catastrophe after catastrophe because by all indications, that's what they were told to do. The Titans empowered them and then left them with only the vaguest of marching orders. Which could account for their delayed responses to things like the Burning Legion and the Qiraji swarming across southern Kalimdor; they probably just plain weren't sure if those threats fell into their already poorly defined jurisdiction or if they were something to be handled by mortals or some other Titanic defense measure. Atop that, in WotA the Old Gods are implied to be borderline mythological beings to even the Aspects. Just what's the purpose of appointing protectors when they're left so uninformed that they and their followers only halfway even believe in the existence of the threat they were empowered to fight and have to deliberate to figure out whether or not a given disaster falls under the same umbrella as the spooky enemy they aren't even completely sure exists?

The Titans really just seem to have dropped the ball when it came to educating their creations on just where to point all those fancy powers they were given, so we have entire armies of powerful beings who literally just hang out not doing a job that was never properly delineated to them in the first place.

Seriously, the whole theme of the Old Gods/Dragon Aspect story has boiled down to "the very guys we're supposed to keep locked up are trying to escape! Who'd have expected that?" Gee, how about every person ever put in charge of keeping someone from escaping from somewhere? Except apparently on Azeroth, where ancient wardens built expressly for that singular purpose are routinely blindsided by the very concept that their prisoners might actually be interested in trying to get out. I guess Loken figured he was empowered as a courtesy to keep Yogg-Saron from getting lonely or something by listening to the Old God's crazy stories about how cool it would be to escape and how Loken should totally go crazy and let him so they can hang out.

Last edited by ARM3481; 02-24-2012 at 11:03 AM..
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  #252  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:03 AM
Quaero Quaero is offline

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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Considering there are other Old Gods out there I'd imagine they may have dealt with them before.
Maybe.

By eliminating them.

But here, they had to contain them, or risk destroy the whole planet with them.

And permanent containment is a complete different animal from eradication.
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  #253  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:05 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
But he wasn't doing his job in Wrath. He went against the charge that Norgannon gave him:
Yeah but he believed, that the rogue magic users of the mortal races were responsible for all of Azeroth's greatest threats, something he wasn't wrong about in reality. His sobering view point dating back to the Highborne's abuse and hearing second hand accounts of the most recent incursion. It's likely he heard tale of Mediev's corruption at their hands, the portal, the orcs, resulting in the undead marching across his land. Malygos's conclusions aren't really that far fetched, defend mortal magic as you may but his perspective and resulting confusion of "ENOUGH", has some serious weight. His consolidated effort to police magic falls in line with

Quote:
I believe that you will find that my gift to you is not just a profound duty--which it is--but also a delight--which it is! Magic must be regulated, managed, and controlled. But it must also be appreciated and valued and not hoarded. Such is the contradiction you must deal with. May you be dutiful...and joyous both. - Blessing of the Blue Aspect, given by Norgannon
He failed the first part of his charge for too long and realized his folly. He did give the magic users a chance to appreciate and value magic under the laws which Norgannon granted him. To suggest that not doing his job was his job all along is pretty... lame. I'm always going to side with Maly on this one, his timing for cracking the whip was ultimately the thing that led to his demise. Although Alexstraza being the one to get mad at him for actually doing work is the most laughable part of all. "Oh noes, Maly wants to take on his charge that the Titan's gave him, this means war!" That's like the most shes ever done to protect mortal life in ages, the circumstances of which are even more odd.
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  #254  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:11 AM
Quaero Quaero is offline

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I'm still pretty sore about how they handed Malygos during Wrath.

I could nitpick everything to hell and back, but the biggest peeve I have against it was that we killed him instead of knocking some sense into him.

Plus Malygos would have fitted much better in Cata, out to avenge his flight.
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  #255  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:14 AM
Mustrum Mustrum is offline

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The only logical explanation is that Alexstrasza is simply evil.

You may not see it yet. Hell, Blizzard might not even see it yet. But she is a power-hungry, scheming megalomaniac.
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  #256  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:21 AM
Quaero Quaero is offline

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FOOOOOOOOLS!

DID YOU REALLY BELIEVE I WAS ON YOUR SIDE?

NOW BOLVAR, WHO IS BATHED IN THE FLAMES OF MY FLIGHT, CONTROLS THE SCOURGE, AND I CONTROL HIM!

THIS WORLD WILL BE SCOURGED OF CORRUPTION, SO LIFE CAN BEGIN ANEW!

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


something like that?

Last edited by Quaero; 02-24-2012 at 11:28 AM..
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  #257  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Quaero View Post
FOOOOOOOOLS!

DID YOU REALLY BELIEVE I WAS ON YOUR SIDE?

NOW BOLVAR, WHOM IS BATHED IN THE FLAMES OF MY FLIGHT, CONTROLS THE SCOURGE, AND I CONTROL HIM!

THIS WORLD WILL BE SCOURGED OF CORRUPTION, SO LIFE CAN BEGIN ANEW!

BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


something like that?
I hadn't even made the Bolvar connection, but yeah, something like that.

Good god, this is even worse than I realized.

Oh, and it's 'who' not 'whom' in this case.
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  #258  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:48 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quaero View Post
I could nitpick everything to hell and back, but the biggest peeve I have against it was that we killed him instead of knocking some sense into him.
I was more upset by the fact they turned him into a rapist.
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  #259  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:53 AM
Malygos Malygos is offline

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I believe that you will find that my gift to you is not just a profound duty--which it is--but also a delight--which it is! Magic must be regulated, managed, and controlled. But it must also be appreciated and valued and not hoarded. Such is the contradiction you must deal with. May you be dutiful...and joyous both. - Blessing of the Blue Aspect, given by Norgannon

I'll just say that there were probably higher priorities than the mages at that point, you know with the Lich King resurrecting one's long dead consort (I have no idea if that scene was before/after the conclusion of the Nexus War).


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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
I was more upset by the fact they turned him into a rapist.
Well... Keri went out of her way to burn one's consort of 10,000 years+ (apparently she was the mother of Arygos/Kirygosa) with the purpose of drawing aggro. Well congratulations, you have now drawn ire of the blue flight. Can't believe I'm trying to justify rape right now. Though it happened, so I'll have to deal with it (not that I'm happy about it).

Last edited by Malygos; 02-24-2012 at 12:07 PM..
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  #260  
Old 02-24-2012, 11:55 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
I was more upset by the fact they turned him into a rapist.
That seems to be a recurring thing with dragons, though. I wonder if they have a knowledge of "consent" in their culture.
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  #261  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:09 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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+ the whole flight-changing mind control freezing thing he was doing to her.
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  #262  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:10 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
That seems to be a recurring thing with dragons, though. I wonder if they have a knowledge of "consent" in their culture.
I have only really seen Deathwing and Malygos use the rape card when it comes to the Dragons.

You can probably argue Alexstrazsa was raped, but she was more being forced to have sex with one of her "husbands". She didn't want to be a breeding machine, but the orcs were at least not bringing in some other dragon to do the procreation tango with her, so it's a bit more slippery and probably lays more on the side of sexual abuse.
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  #263  
Old 02-24-2012, 12:29 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
I have only really seen Deathwing and Malygos use the rape card when it comes to the Dragons.

You can probably argue Alexstrazsa was raped, but she was more being forced to have sex with one of her "husbands". She didn't want to be a breeding machine, but the orcs were at least not bringing in some other dragon to do the procreation tango with her, so it's a bit more slippery and probably lays more on the side of sexual abuse.
So... the orcs were the rapists without themselves doing the deed.
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  #264  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:12 PM
Quaero Quaero is offline

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I don't like the direction this conversation is taking.

No sir.


Anyway, I always though The Argent Tournament made more sense as 3.0 content, and that they should have saved Malygos for 3.2.

Last edited by Quaero; 02-24-2012 at 01:15 PM..
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  #265  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:15 PM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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You talk about dragons being raped now ?
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  #266  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:30 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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I was just pointing out that I find him being implied a rapist was a bit more of a character assassination point then anything else in the events, including his death. It's hard to have sympathy for his "Magic is destroying the world!" blight when he kidnaps a red dragon for procreation, even using magic to bend her will to his.
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  #267  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:38 PM
Quaero Quaero is offline

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To be fair, said Dragon had just killed his consort, defiled her body and lit it on fire on his doorstep to taunt him.

Neither side is innocent.
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  #268  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:45 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Originally Posted by Quaero View Post
To be fair, said Dragon had just killed his consort, defiled her body and lit it on fire on his doorstep to taunt him.
To be fair, said Dragon was also imprisoned by Malygos in an empty dimension, with the intent of her spending eternity in there without escape until she simply went insane. She was not exactly the one throwing the first stone in this situation, but she was the one that suffered the most for it.

Saragosa has a quick, clean death at the hands of the player. Keristrasza has runes burned into her flesh, her mind broken through magic, and was going to be popping out all of Malygos future kids against her will. There is not much of a comparison.
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  #269  
Old 02-24-2012, 01:53 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by ScytheRexx View Post
Keristrasza was going to be popping out all of Malygos future kids against her will.
This leaves me slightly confused, i always think that dragons don't like procreating outside of their flight(onyxia says something like this?), yet malygos decides to do this.

I have a few assumptions on this:
-Black Dragons are very racist
-Malygos decided to screw the tradition/law in the name of revenge
-Malygos was so crazy that he simply didn't give a damn
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  #270  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashendant View Post
This leaves me slightly confused, i always think that dragons don't like procreating outside of their flight(onyxia says something like this?), yet malygos decides to do this.

I have a few assumptions on this:
-Black Dragons are very racist
-Malygos decided to screw the tradition/law in the name of revenge
-Malygos was so crazy that he simply didn't give a damn
Malygos was in the process of turning Keristrasza INTO a blue dragon, wasn't he? Wasn't that what those runes were about?
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  #271  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:12 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Malygos was in the process of turning Keristrasza INTO a blue dragon, wasn't he? Wasn't that what those runes were about?
It certainly looked like it. She had blue scales and there was some mind fcking going on based upon how crazy she started acting after you release her.

And it's not like they can't. We have seen that dragon's DNA is pretty damn maliable.
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  #272  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:20 PM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Malygos was in the process of turning Keristrasza INTO a blue dragon, wasn't he? Wasn't that what those runes were about?
Let us also not forget that red dragons seem to have odd abilities that allow them to "revitalize" other dragons flights, at least based on what they kept implying in Day of the Dragon. Krasus used this "ability" as a bargaining chip with Malygos when he goes to visit the reclusive dragon in Northrend, and then later we find out that the whole events of the book, Deathwing was orchestrating in order to get at the cache of red dragon eggs, so that he could in some form restart the his own flight.

They never go into detail how this would work, but it was what they were playing with.
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  #273  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:31 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
Malygos was in the process of turning Keristrasza INTO a blue dragon, wasn't he? Wasn't that what those runes were about?
I'm going to ask for a source on that...

As far as i know the runes are probably empowering or slavery runes, i never thought that he was turning her into a different colour.
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  #274  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:47 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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I'm going to ask for a source on that...

As far as i know the runes are probably empowering or slavery runes, i never thought that he was turning her into a different colour.
Go look at her.... she was growing blue scales.... unless dragons turn blue when they get cold.
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  #275  
Old 02-24-2012, 02:58 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Well, considering what Maly was using her for, we know one thing she wasn't turning blue from.
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