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  #51  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:47 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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At any rate, I'm very interested in how you'll tackle those.
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  #52  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by KLRMNKY View Post
Well, just look at the timeline for Gilneas City based upon what we see in game:
If it's off-topic for Magistrix and Fojar, then I don't know why it would be any less off-topic of the thread for you?
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  #53  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:49 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
If it's off-topic for Magistrix and Fojar, then I don't know why it would be any less off-topic of the thread for you?
And which post would that be?

Last I checked I deleted it....
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  #54  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:50 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is online now

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I think it's interesting, but I would want a source. Right now though, I'm trying to get through the Alterac and Perenolde material. There's a lot of (almost redundant) material on Alterac and Perenolde's treachery. I don't want to post excerpt where Alterac or Perenolde are mentioned, just ones that are more personally revealing for Perenolde or culturally revealing for Alterac.
Are you going to post the ones about the succession? i would be very interested in those
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  #55  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:56 PM
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Are you going to post the ones about the succession? i would be very interested in those
I think those are predominately discussed, at incredible length, in Day of the Dragon. I may post the issue of Alterac Succession as a sub-heading in Alterac. From what I recall though, there are some really great things that can be inferred about the various nations and their relations from Day of the Dragon. Check out, for example, what Lord Prestor promises Proudmoore and Kul Tiras. The implication is that the closest naval rival of Kul Tiras - the nation that possesses the mightiest navy of the Seven Kingdoms - from whom they feel any threat of losing their naval dominance is Gilneas.
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  #56  
Old 04-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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For instance, we know that the Alliance and the Horde retreated from Northrend after the death of Arthas. Yet, the battlegrounds that take place there are still available.

Why are the Blood Elves and the Draenei still fighting in the Eye of the Storm? The Horde's reason for wanting control of the region in the first place is because they were unaware of Kael'thas betrayal, and the Blood Elves thus still thought that Kael'thas and his Sunfury were allies of the Horde. We've had in-game updates to prove this wasn't so, and two expansions have passed since. Yet the battleground is still available.

I'm sorry, but I can not subscribe to the idea that battlegrounds are somehow continued indefinitely, when clear evidence inside the game points to a resolution of some sorts having been reached. I would perhaps make an exception to the three original battlegrounds from Vanilla.
Simple, Eye of the Storm is another battleground that's been confirmed to have concluded. The reasons for fighting there at all were weak in the first place anyway.

I can't subscribe to the idea that battlegrounds only exist in one patch and no others either, especially in cases like Arathi Basin, Warsong Gulch, and Alterac Valley, all very old BG's that we know are still going.

And both factions maintain presences in Northrend. Besides, with IoC concluded the only one left would be Strand of the Ancients.

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For one reason or another, there is no alliance presence in Gilneas in 4.3. The Forsaken have been attempting to strike down Creed personally; which means that either the Forsaken knew that Creed was a black dragon, or they thought he was a supreme alliance commander of sorts.
There's no explicit Alliance presence in Gilneas in 4.3. That doesn't mean that they've been completely removed from Gilneas. The questgiver could've simply decided it wasn't relevant information as to what the Alliance was doing, only mentioning the Forsaken offhand as a way to pump up the bad guy.

There's no source saying that the Alliance somehow no longer has a presence in Gilneas either.

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It could be that - through the black dragon blood - the Blackhowl were so effective in holding Gilneas that the Alliance were able to withdraw all their forces from the nation. Mind, however, the Fangs of the Father questline isn't unique to the Horde; the Blackhowl are hostile towards Alliance players as well.
And yet the battleground continues, meaning that the Alliance hasn't removed its forces from the nation. I'm sorry, but I don't buy your explanation of "battlegrounds only exist in the patch they're introduced."

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For the Light's sake, Magistrix Verdande and Fojar! It's not relevant to this thread. Take it outside!
How is the status of Gilneas off-topic?
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  #57  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:00 PM
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How is the status of Gilneas off-topic?
BECAUSE WHO THE FUCK CONTROLS GILNEAS IS NOT ON-TOPIC! THIS THREAD IS ABOUT THE SEVEN KINGDOMS - THE PEOPLE, CULTURE, AND PERIOD - AND NOT A THREAD TO DISCUSS CONTEMPORARY POLITICS OF HORDE-ALLIANCE RELATIONS. YOU NOW HAVE A THREAD TO TALK ABOUT IT TO YOUR HEARTS' CONTENT, SO GET THE FUCK OUT! YES. I MAD.

Edit: Apart from the debate of Alterac Succession, I am done with Alterac for now. There was not as much cultural information in the books about Alterac as I would have hoped, as it was primarily focused on Perenolde being a treacherous git, but I don't want to overload the Alterac section with Aiden Perenolde information.

Last edited by Genesis; 04-04-2012 at 02:30 PM..
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  #58  
Old 04-04-2012, 02:56 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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I'm sorry I ruined your thread, Genesis.
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  #59  
Old 04-04-2012, 04:01 PM
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Now with FAR MORE Dalaran information (and just from The Last Guardian too).
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  #60  
Old 04-04-2012, 04:25 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I've been looking for my own copy of The Last Guardian (since it has a ton of Stormwind information in it as well) to no avail. This is going to drive me insane.
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  #61  
Old 04-04-2012, 04:32 PM
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I've been looking for my own copy of The Last Guardian (since it has a ton of Stormwind information in it as well) to no avail. This is going to drive me insane.
There's already nice hints of Stormwind stuff that I saw looking through The Last Guardian, but one nation at a time.
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  #62  
Old 04-04-2012, 04:35 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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It's too bad that Grubb severed his ties with Blizzard. He's easily the best writer Blizzard has ever gotten to do something in the Warcraft universe. The Last Guardian is the only Warcraft novel that could stand on its own as a decent fantasy novel without the Warcraft label.
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  #63  
Old 04-04-2012, 05:18 PM
Magistrix Verdande Magistrix Verdande is offline

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I prefer Christie Golden, personally.

Isn't Grubb that Diablo author?
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  #64  
Old 04-04-2012, 05:24 PM
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Before proceeding to the prominent powers (Gilneas, Lordaeron, and Stormwind), I'm going to stop from my task for a bit of a rest. I would not mind receiving help with finding additional appropriate lore about Stromgarde, Dalaran, Alterac, and Kul Tiras from the Warcraft quests (archives or live) or the graphic novels. Thank you.
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  #65  
Old 04-04-2012, 10:10 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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I'll look into BtDP in a bit. After that, I will go through Arathi's and Tol Barad's quests.
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  #66  
Old 04-04-2012, 10:14 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Warcraft novel that could stand on its own as a decent fantasy novel without the Warcraft label.
I remember when TTotA came out a bunch of people here said that about it.
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  #67  
Old 04-04-2012, 10:31 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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I remember when TTotA came out a bunch of people here said that about it.
I only remember one guy saying that, and the main difference here is that I'm not wrong.
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  #68  
Old 04-04-2012, 10:36 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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The Last Guardian was really good.
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  #69  
Old 04-04-2012, 10:59 PM
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I added some quests and novel quotes that Erthad found. (Thanks, Erthad.) Erthad also caught an implication in one of the quotes that I had not picked up previously.

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“General.” Trollbane had always liked Hath. The man was a solid soldier and a good tactician, and a decent fellow. He had always disliked fighting him and hoped that wouldn’t be necessary this time. “The orcs are pouring through your southern passes,” he said bluntly. “We blocked them for you.” (ToD)
Trollbane casually implies that Stromgarde and Alterac have a number of prior armed altercations in Trollbane's lifetime before the Second War.
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  #70  
Old 04-05-2012, 03:06 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I added some quests and novel quotes that Erthad found. (Thanks, Erthad.) Erthad also caught an implication in one of the quotes that I had not picked up previously.

Trollbane casually implies that Stromgarde and Alterac have a number of prior armed altercations in Trollbane's lifetime before the Second War.
I thought part of the reason Thoras threw a claim in to the remnants of Alterac was because of their history, and he wanted to take some vengeance against Perenolde / Alterac.

This reminded me of that.
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  #71  
Old 04-05-2012, 11:37 AM
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I thought part of the reason Thoras threw a claim in to the remnants of Alterac was because of their history, and he wanted to take some vengeance against Perenolde / Alterac.

This reminded me of that.
I remember the history that Thoras emphasized in regards to claiming Alterac's eastern territories was Perenolde's treason and not so much their two nations' past armed conflicts prior to the Second War, but I could be wrong about that. Again, this particular quote does strongly suggest that the Seven Kingdoms period was not as harmonious and free of internal conflict as Pre-Horde idealists have made it out to be. I don't want to dwell on this topic too much, since I see this issue potentially veering into off-topic politicking on the Horde in the Second War. I will just note that I think a "historical corrective" needs to be made on how we view the pre-Horde relations of the Seven Kingdoms.
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  #72  
Old 04-05-2012, 05:33 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Ok finished BtDP for now. Will look into quests later.
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  #73  
Old 04-05-2012, 07:31 PM
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Quick note, considering all the work that's been put into this as a mini-database thread it's been stickied. Keep up the badassery.
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  #74  
Old 04-05-2012, 09:36 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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When I have finished with Stromgarde what would you rather me do, Stormwind or another small kingdom?
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  #75  
Old 04-05-2012, 10:50 PM
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When I have finished with Stromgarde what would you rather me do, Stormwind or another small kingdom?
Let's work on the small kingdoms before we move on to the drudgery of the larger kingdoms.

I just got back from class, so I will slowly be adding your further contributions to the Stromgarde portion.

Edit: I am using compressed electronic copies of the books for many of my quotes. If anyone is that bored, it would be appreciated if someone looked through the quotes to see if they are properly matched. At the very least, the chapter may be better than the page number.

Last edited by Genesis; 04-06-2012 at 12:11 AM..
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