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  #51  
Old 04-12-2012, 07:55 PM
Porimlys Porimlys is offline

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I see the High King situation like this:

1. It's needed to get everyone at the gates of Orgrimmar to cull the Horde and stifle their skyrocketing rise to power.

2. Following this, it'll become more of a cold war situation. Suddenly the full force of the Alliance is in one mans hand, their strength will be questioned far less and they may be able to keep their borders. "You have a Warchief? We have a High King!". Varian doesn't necessarily have to have full lordship over all Alliance kingdoms to use the role effectively, being a High King doesn't have to mean he could replace Astranaar with a summer castle without question. I think this is actually something Blizzard needs to clarify, and I hope they do within the quest chain. What the heck is a High King? What kind of power does he have, besides the ability to rally the races of the Alliance in a time of war?
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  #52  
Old 04-12-2012, 07:57 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
Yeah, but the blue post was about speaking "thematically" and so the events in-universe are in the back seat to thinking about why you write a thing a way. In universe it's not like having centralized power makes your armies inherently fight better, and in fact can be a strong disadvantage when fighting on two different continents. However, for the Alliance, their success and the centralization of power tend to mirror each other.
But there never WAS a centralization of power outside of the Supreme Allied Commander. Terenas had his power because the other nations voted alongside of him. Not because he said this is the way it goes.

Yes, working towards common goals made them more effective. But that was just it. They were all working towards common goals.
  #53  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:01 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferlion View Post
But there never WAS a centralization of power outside of the Supreme Allied Commander. Terenas had his power because the other nations voted alongside of him. Not because he said this is the way it goes.

Yes, working towards common goals made them more effective. But that was just it. They were all working towards common goals.
It's not how he had the power, or if he had it by law or just because he eas really good at convincing people, it's that he had it at all. Whether or not they were required to, the other nations followed his lead, and the fact they did it willingly is just as good as them being legally bound to.
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  #54  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
It's not how he had the power, or if he had it by law or just because he eas really good at convincing people, it's that he had it at all.
Thats the point. He didn't. Everyone together did. I just said what I meant poorly.

The Strength of the Alliance wasn't because of Terenas. It was because all the leaders were united under a common goal, all applying their power to the good of the kingdoms.
  #55  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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From a writing standpoint, though, the other kings were not given nearly the focus Terenas was. When they talk about "the King" in WC2, they're talking about him. From a thematic standpoint he is the political leader of the Alliance, though it is because he has the ability to convince others of the rightness of his course of action.
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  #56  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:13 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
I see the High King situation like this:

1. It's needed to get everyone at the gates of Orgrimmar to cull the Horde and stifle their skyrocketing rise to power.

2. Following this, it'll become more of a cold war situation. Suddenly the full force of the Alliance is in one mans hand, their strength will be questioned far less and they may be able to keep their borders. "You have a Warchief? We have a High King!". Varian doesn't necessarily have to have full lordship over all Alliance kingdoms to use the role effectively, being a High King doesn't have to mean he could replace Astranaar with a summer castle without question. I think this is actually something Blizzard needs to clarify, and I hope they do within the quest chain. What the heck is a High King? What kind of power does he have, besides the ability to rally the races of the Alliance in a time of war?
The thing is, if the High King is limited in his power, why call him a high king at all?. If he's just going to command the armies just call him the Supreme Allied Commander! There is no need to make a new position.
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  #57  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:15 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
The thing is, if the High King is limited in his power, why call him a high king at all?. If he's just going to command the armies just call him the Supreme Allied Commander! There is no need to make a new position.
I'm gonna get diabetes for saying this but I think they're trying to make the current Alliance as distinct from their WC2 and WC3 incarnations as possible.

Also High King sounds like a Dwarf title, maybe Varian does some heavy Dwarven themed shit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Porimlys View Post
I see the High King situation like this:

1. It's needed to get everyone at the gates of Orgrimmar to cull the Horde and stifle their skyrocketing rise to power.

2. Following this, it'll become more of a cold war situation. Suddenly the full force of the Alliance is in one mans hand, their strength will be questioned far less and they may be able to keep their borders. "You have a Warchief? We have a High King!". Varian doesn't necessarily have to have full lordship over all Alliance kingdoms to use the role effectively, being a High King doesn't have to mean he could replace Astranaar with a summer castle without question. I think this is actually something Blizzard needs to clarify, and I hope they do within the quest chain. What the heck is a High King? What kind of power does he have, besides the ability to rally the races of the Alliance in a time of war?
I agree and I hope so.
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  #58  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:19 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fordragon View Post
From a writing standpoint, though, the other kings were not given nearly the focus Terenas was. When they talk about "the King" in WC2, they're talking about him. From a thematic standpoint he is the political leader of the Alliance, though it is because he has the ability to convince others of the rightness of his course of action.
And the games and ability to tell a story have expanded to allow more focus on more characters. Or at least they should have.
  #59  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:36 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Kinda saw this coming.

Sky has just gotten worse and worse over time.

He actually used to be a good poster and I used to respect him, but now he's just this annoying nerd who complains about everything. He'll be better off not playing. He seems really unstable.
  #60  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:39 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
Kinda saw this coming.

Sky has just gotten worse and worse over time.

He actually used to be a good poster and I used to respect him, but now he's just this annoying nerd who complains about everything. He'll be better off not playing. He seems really unstable.
And now I have the image of a fat midget wearing a kilt, muzzle, and a neon pink mohawk tap dancing to Friday.

Thanks Cosmic.
  #61  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:41 PM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
Kinda saw this coming.

Sky has just gotten worse and worse over time.

He actually used to be a good poster and I used to respect him, but now he's just this annoying nerd who complains about everything. He'll be better off not playing. He seems really unstable.
See... I WANT to disagree with this statement. It's a bit... strongly worded? There!
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  #62  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:45 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anasterian View Post
See... I WANT to disagree with this statement. It's a bit... strongly worded? There!
I'm not trying to be offensive. But anyone who has read Sky's posting over the last few weeks can tell that he's been slowly losing it. I feel bad for him. He could be going through things IRL. If that's the case, the best thing he can do is just stop posting/playing. I really do hope things get better for him. Sky's a good guy.
  #63  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:48 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
I'm not trying to be offensive. But anyone who has read Sky's posting over the last few weeks can tell that he's been slowly losing it. I feel bad for him. He could be going through things IRL. If that's the case, the best thing he can do is just stop posting/playing. I really do hope things get better for him. Sky's a good guy.
Yea I used to enjoy his posts. Then he just whined a lot.
  #64  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:50 PM
Dithon1 Dithon1 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
Kinda saw this coming.

Sky has just gotten worse and worse over time.

He actually used to be a good poster and I used to respect him, but now he's just this annoying nerd who complains about everything. He'll be better off not playing. He seems really unstable.
Bitter and resentful that his once-favorite game now bores him, probably.
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  #65  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:54 PM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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Is it wrong that I think of this scene in regards to Sky leaving Warcraft?

He just needs Metzen to hug him and let him know it's not his fault. Ashame to see him leave and maybe he just needs a long term break from it all before he can enjoy it once more.
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  #66  
Old 04-12-2012, 08:55 PM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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In order to resolve this issue with at least some bit of dignity, I'm locking this thread and all conversation on the topic should remain within private channels.

All lore related conversations here should be moved to other threads.
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  #67  
Old 04-12-2012, 09:15 PM
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Now only the cool kids can post here whooooo!
  #68  
Old 04-13-2012, 06:35 AM
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It's at times like this that I almost regret that Scrolls is a Warcraft lore forum.
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