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Old 04-29-2012, 10:11 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Night Elf Icon (War3) DK: Can we make generalizations?

Got into a fight with someone on my realmn forum about this topic recently. I argued that we can't make any generalizations concerning the Night Elves and how they would treat DK. His argument was, well, the opposite. It sort of eventually turned into this back and forth where I was called a fool for believing that Night Elves aren't feral, savage, uber traditionalists, but I digress.

My major points were:
  1. The Night Elves allow Satyr in and near their sacred, civilization re-birthing uber tree.
  2. The Night Elves aren't as set to their beliefs as people make out. For instance, you have Night Elf citizens living and dressing in a human town in Dragonblight (Wintergarde)
  3. The Night Elves only seem to hate those who chose to be what they are, and even then not to some extreme extent save for Demon Hunters. Case and point: Highborne.

Some I thought later are:
  1. Wisps are essentially undead Night Elves and are given the upmost respect.
  2. Canonicly, Night Elf DK are all former heroes. The best and the brightest in life.

Simply put, I believe it cannot be said that all DK are reviled by night elf culture when they allow Satyr - the biggest traitors in their history - near their city, and Highborne - the second biggest traitors in their history - in their most sacred temple, and indeed, soon after leading their forces in Azshara.

Likewise, I don't believe that Night Elf society is as conservative a society as people make out. They've been shown to change at a rapid pace, and indeed, tend to make decisions fast and on the fly. This coupled with their high respect for their dead, heroes, and ability to allow those they no doubt deem "evil" to live so near to them, paints a picture that does not at all say "All DK are hated."

Am I saying that all Night Elves should like DK? No, I just don't believe that people should automatically assume that all Night Elves hate DK. I've seen this taken to great extremes with people barely saying a word, like reading in an unofficial night elf "guide" that it's widely believed that Night Elf DK hated themselves so much that they committed mass suicide at lights hope.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:17 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Lorewise DK's would try to stay away from the local populace.Well, except the Forsaken DK's.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:18 AM
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I'm still not sure how Forsaken DKs make sense.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:19 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I'm still not sure how Forsaken DKs make sense.
I guess some guy's corpse was rotten way more than others, or, a Forsaken was killed and rezzed again by The Lich King himself.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:25 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Lorewise DK's would try to stay away from the local populace.Well, except the Forsaken DK's.
Well I would question the validity of this too. It's always assumed, but what is the basis of assumption?

Humans, I can understand being afraid of them, at least the "common man" human. Then again, same "common man" would likely be afraid of, say, most of the armors in this lineup:

http://www.wowpedia.org/images/8/8f/..._Tier_Sets.jpg
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:25 AM
Omacron Omacron is online now


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I had a very similar argument with a hardcore night elf RP a while ago on this very subject. A few things to point out:



1) As you said, player DKs are heroes of their races. More importantly, however, is that most of them (certainly if you follow the storyline laid out for your character by the start zone) were raised against their will. They can't help being undead.
2) In addition to the wisp thing (which a lot of players, for whatever reason, refuse to categorize as "undead", though their status is a bit iffy), wardens pretty clearly practice necromancy in making their Spirits of Vengeance from the souls of their enemies. Now granted, Wardens are supposed to be pretty morally gray, but some degree of necromancy is sanctioned by the state, and because the night elves are a theocracy if the state sanctions it so must the Temple of Elune, and, therefore, Elune herself. If Elune is okay with Wardens using necromancy, then so must the public be.




That said, the fact is the night elves have undergone significant cultural change since WCIII. There aren't many similarities to how they were presented at the time, but a lot of RPers refuse to acknowledge that. A lot of Night Elf RPers love to live in a bubble and you're just gonna have to deal with them.
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Old 04-29-2012, 10:55 AM
Valius Valius is offline

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I would think they stare at the said Death Knight for a bit and go about their business. It's been about a year and almost more then that since Death Knights came into the Alliance and Horde so I don't think they would be hated.


The only people that would really HATE them is very extremist like groups that are around somewhere in the world. Personally I judge on a individual basis.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:13 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I had a very similar argument with a hardcore night elf RP a while ago on this very subject. A few things to point out:



1) As you said, player DKs are heroes of their races. More importantly, however, is that most of them (certainly if you follow the storyline laid out for your character by the start zone) were raised against their will. They can't help being undead.
2) In addition to the wisp thing (which a lot of players, for whatever reason, refuse to categorize as "undead", though their status is a bit iffy), wardens pretty clearly practice necromancy in making their Spirits of Vengeance from the souls of their enemies. Now granted, Wardens are supposed to be pretty morally gray, but some degree of necromancy is sanctioned by the state, and because the night elves are a theocracy if the state sanctions it so must the Temple of Elune, and, therefore, Elune herself. If Elune is okay with Wardens using necromancy, then so must the public be.




That said, the fact is the night elves have undergone significant cultural change since WCIII. There aren't many similarities to how they were presented at the time, but a lot of RPers refuse to acknowledge that. A lot of Night Elf RPers love to live in a bubble and you're just gonna have to deal with them.
True, I have dealt with many uber elves in my time, like the one above who said the mass suicide thing. The one who argued against me the other day just flew off the handle and treated me like a moron for daring to say that Night Elves aren't amazonian people who act like wild cats.

What proofs would there be that Night Elves despise DK? The only answer I ever seem to get is that they have a deep respect for life via Druidism.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:16 AM
Omacron Omacron is online now


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I think we might have argued with the same person in the past. Was it Melyria of Moon Guard?
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:22 AM
Valius Valius is offline

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There really isn't any proof out there aside from assumptions.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:32 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I think we might have argued with the same person in the past. Was it Melyria of Moon Guard?
ding ding ding ding ding

I recently moved off server because her hounds pestered me off the server ally side, on Wyrmrest now.

EDIT:

Mely said the suicide thing, someone else is the one who argued recently.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
ding ding ding ding ding

I recently moved off server because her hounds pestered me off the server ally side, on Wyrmrest now.
You might get a kick out of this, then.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8999463?page=8

Bear in mind this was before the RPG was declared non-canon. Also ironic in that I'm going to be working at Blizzard in exactly a month, so I guess I was vindicated by history.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:37 AM
Anne_Neritas Anne_Neritas is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
You might get a kick out of this, then.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...8999463?page=8

Bear in mind this was before the RPG was declared non-canon. Also ironic in that I'm going to be working at Blizzard in exactly a month, so I guess I was vindicated by history.
You should see her recent actions. She has been posting alot of her made up quest lines and says she wants to work for blizzard.

IE: She wants to be paid to be an "idea guy". Alot of her quests have more pop culture than blizzards stuff.

Though I suppose I'm going off topic, I just have a deep seated hate for her and her people.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:42 AM
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Really now? That just makes it even more ironic.



I wonder if it'd be gauche to find those threads and rub salt in the wounds.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
You should see her recent actions. She has been posting alot of her made up quest lines and says she wants to work for blizzard.

IE: She wants to be paid to be an "idea guy". Alot of her quests have more pop culture than blizzards stuff.

Though I suppose I'm going off topic, I just have a deep seated hate for her and her people.
Most people here would be an "Idea guy" for Blizzard for free if we could manage it.

Quote:
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Really now? That just makes it even more ironic.

I wonder if it'd be gauche to find those threads and rub salt in the wounds.
Stay professional. You don't want to walk into the offices and find out that it was Metzen trolling you all along. I'd go so far as adopt the "CM" posting style on the official forums just to play it safe, keep professional.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:51 AM
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Stay professional. You don't want to walk into the offices and find out that it was Metzen trolling you all along.
You forget the part where I wore my trollface shirt to Blizzcon. I wouldn't be surprised if he was planning something to get back at me. Hell this whole internship could be an elaborate prank. I show up to work, sit down at the computer and then they dump a bucket of pig's blood on me or something.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:52 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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DK. Donkey Kong. DK. Donkey Kong is here.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:53 AM
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You forget the part where I wore my trollface shirt to Blizzcon. I wouldn't be surprised if he was planning something to get back at me. Hell this whole internship could be an elaborate prank. I show up to work, sit down at the computer and then they dump a bucket of pig's blood on me or something.
They're all going to laugh at you.
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Old 04-29-2012, 11:55 AM
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DK. Donkey Kong. DK. Donkey Kong is here.
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
I'm still not sure how Forsaken DKs make sense.
Redeadened undead. What's not to understand?
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Old 04-29-2012, 12:32 PM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
I'm still not sure how Forsaken DKs make sense.
A Forsaken warrior is struck down, his or her will is shattered, and the Lich King is able to re-enslave said Forsaken.

Problem solved.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:29 PM
cosmictimelion cosmictimelion is offline

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Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
I wonder if it'd be gauche to find those threads and rub salt in the wounds.
Oh, god. Yes, yes, yes! YEEEEEEEEEES!!!!

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Originally Posted by Anne_Neritas View Post
Though I suppose I'm going off topic, I just have a deep seated hate for her and her people.
I like you already.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Exxile87 View Post
A Forsaken warrior is struck down, his or her will is shattered, and the Lich King is able to re-enslave said Forsaken.

Problem solved.
It doesn't even need to be that he is struck down, it's possible the Lichking reinserted control over them. It's not like the "Undead" "Forsaken" model hasn't been used for the scourges ranks either. Nor has it been shown the Lichking cannot re-raise fallen previously Undead corpses. Capturing a Forsaken and breaking his will under the powerful necromantic magics and the helms abilities seems actually like it possible. Theres a lot of ways it could work, none seem all that far fetched to me. Certainly not as far fetched as Pandaren Monks of all the other races suddenly.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:53 PM
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I'm going to go with night elves generally being okay with death knights. The more conservative having a few qualms with the more "unholy" nature of the magic and their existence, and maybe thinking that that they could have done more to prevent their resurrection, or killed themself after they realised what sort of magic they had been subjected to? Sure, but certainly now after they've proven themselves to be trustworthy, probably not the general population.

I somewhat disagree with the argument regarding wisps and spirits of vengeance though- while it's probably the case that the night elves don't have much of a problem with necromancy in itself, the scourge's necromancy has different enough roots and uses that it's not necessarily a good comparison. As in death knights wouldn't be rejected because they were brought back from the dead, but because of how, why, and what with. Though they probably wouldn't be rejected, it would be less due to the night elves being fine with necromancy, but more because they don't have much of a reason to distrust the death knights working with them.
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Old 04-29-2012, 01:57 PM
Valius Valius is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Omacron View Post
You forget the part where I wore my trollface shirt to Blizzcon. I wouldn't be surprised if he was planning something to get back at me. Hell this whole internship could be an elaborate prank. I show up to work, sit down at the computer and then they dump a bucket of pig's blood on me or something.

And? You're allowed to be silly every once in awhile. Still when discussing lore obviously be constructive and all that comes with it. I'm a little jealous of you Omacron >_>


Just don't make Alliance evil and I'm ok with you.
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