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  #226  
Old 05-03-2012, 06:13 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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That could be posible. Following that, I'm thinking in a (WoE powered at first perhaps?) titan made, magical, regenerating layer covering the planet and protecting it from external, unwanted magics to an extent, but that got damaged with the overuse of magic certain zones, allowing not only for demons to detect the planet but to enter too.


About halfway this post I realized the ozone layer parallel BTW.


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Originally Posted by Valius View Post
It seems likely and would make sense but my question is. WHY THE HECK WOULD THEY NOT DO IT FOR OTHER PLANETS??


Sense it does not make.

It could have been titan made/generated by the Well back when it was running
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Last edited by GenyaArikado; 05-03-2012 at 06:17 PM..
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  #227  
Old 05-03-2012, 06:15 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Valius View Post
It seems likely and would make sense but my question is. WHY THE HECK WOULD THEY NOT DO IT FOR OTHER PLANETS??


Sense it does not make.
The Titans haven't visited every planet. Currently the only planet they've been confirmed to have visited is Azeroth.

There are lots of planets in the universe.
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  #228  
Old 05-03-2012, 07:31 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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As a random odd thought, could it be the Old Gods that make it required to summon demons? It would be interesting if their presence, or the way the Titans contained them, is responsible for Azeroth's particular defences against them.

But I'm also sure that they needed to be summoned on to Draenor before it blew up, but I'll admit my memory is fuzzy there.
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  #229  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:21 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
As a random odd thought, could it be the Old Gods that make it required to summon demons? It would be interesting if their presence, or the way the Titans contained them, is responsible for Azeroth's particular defences against them.

But I'm also sure that they needed to be summoned on to Draenor before it blew up, but I'll admit my memory is fuzzy there.
Well, the demons didn't blow up Draenor, they came after the fact when Outland was immersed in the Nether.

Mannoroth did have to be summoned, though.
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  #230  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:42 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Could you clarify "silly"? Is there any reason why such a theme, if it exists, would be deemed "silly" for any reason other than you not liking it? I'm genuinely curious.
Well, I do think the theme is pretty bad in that humanity loses what little flavor it has (even if most kingdoms' flavor is "more X than Stormwind").

It also imposes an inorganic assimilation process unto humanity simply because the orcs lost every flavor besides generic, Frostwolf (20% more shamanic!), and Warsong/Rareroar (100% more jackass!). Essentially tit-for-tat.

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The existence of Nethergarde seems a bit overestimated now that the Dark Portal is opened and Illidan defeated. With Outland no longer in legion or Illidari control, and with the Cataclysm updating the old world, why hasn't it been de-colonized?
The Dark Portal will always remain a potential threat... especially with demons still in the Blasted Lands. Not to mention the Alliance can't afford to cede land to the Horde, so close to Stormwind, if they can help it.

Then again, I'm of the opinion that the Dark Portal should be destroyed before Draenor's decay starts screwing over Stormwind.
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Last edited by Millenia; 05-03-2012 at 08:51 PM..
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  #231  
Old 05-03-2012, 08:56 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Inb4 they recklessly they destroy the thing and the southern part of EK gets blown up to pieces.
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  #232  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:04 PM
Valius Valius is offline

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Inb4 they recklessly they destroy the thing and the southern part of EK gets blown up to pieces.

Inb4 Draenor gets restored
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  #233  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:05 PM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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Originally Posted by HalfElfDragon View Post
Well, the demons didn't blow up Draenor, they came after the fact when Outland was immersed in the Nether.

Mannoroth did have to be summoned, though.
Oh I know. So they do have to do it on other planets as well, though not all it seems.

So the question would be what makes Azeroth special and does that also relate to Draenor since demons both needed to be summoned there, if you make the assumption that it's not common.

It could also be that some worlds are better connected to the Nether in some way allowing demons to move over easier as well.
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  #234  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:14 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Perhaps there's a sort of "equivalent exchange" thing going on with extraplanar invasion, in which the more ordered life and naturally occurring (as in, not originating in the Nether) magic there is on a planet, the more magical energy has to be channeled into a portal from that world to offset the energies of the incoming invaders, and the more natives the Legion's vanguard slaughters and the more natural order it disrupts when it arrives, the easier it becomes to further stabilize their portal, bring through even more troops to kill more, and eventually the likes of Kil'jaeden can step through and initiate planetary detonation as seen in the vision shown to Anduin by Velen of a world being purged by the Legion.

Draenor wasn't host to many bustling metropolises, as even the draenei weren't exactly sprawling their civilization across the planet. Lacking powerful native spellcasters, it offered little in the way of a magical bounty to the Legion beyond its corruptible inhabitants (combined with its status as an important backwater suggesting it wasn't on the Sargeras' prioritized list of Reordered worlds). It was primitive in most ways, with virtually all evidence of heavy "alien" (i.e. arcane-based) magic use coming with the rise of the Horde and its rampant use of fel magics.

In many ways Draenor was primitive as a world beyond simply the rustic ways of the orcs. The ogres are made out to have been around basically unchanged for an extremely long time, yet their Gronn precursors still run around among them, and the size of much of the local fauna (Clefthoofs especially) carries a sense of prehistoric hugeness, as if Draenor was at a point in development akin to what's hinted at in Azeroth's past by the monstrous kodo-like skeletons in Desolace which dwarf any kodo living today. Not quite equivalent to our own Pleistocene Era, but somewhere between it and Azeroth's modern age where gargantuan land mammals aren't naturally encountered in large numbers any longer outside Un'goro and the mammoths of Northrend.

That sort of primitive, not-quite-primordial (but moreso than Azeroth) could make Draenor and other undeveloped worlds like it (and the draenei specifically sought undeveloped, primitive worlds to settle to avoid notice longer) "closer" to the Nether in nature, making them easier to access. Like an energy frequency, their untamed (even if balanced) elemental forces and non-ordered natural energies could make their balance between fundamental order and chaos close enough to that of the Twisting Nether for the Legion to manifest a limited presence there on their own. Even Talgath didn't necessarily walk around Draenor exploring at full power; the only truly powerful demon to physically visit Draenor in full before its shattering was Mannoroth, by which time the orcs had already introduced a massive amount of chaotic fel energy into the planet itself, perhaps bringing its "resonance" that much closer to that of the Nether.

Azeroth, on the other hand, is a known Reordered world. Its very physical structure was shaped by the Titans, its energies arranged in mapped leylines as well as the centralized Well of Eternity, and even many of its life forms evolved from prescribed orderly "designs". Despite their chaotic natures, the Old Gods and Elemental Lords had been sealed away, severely curtailing the influence they had upon Azeroth at large. That in itself could in some way render Azeroth and other Reordered planets farther removed from the fundamental chaotic resonance of the Twisting Nether. That could explain why someone needs to basically concentrate chaotic arcane energies like those of the Nether into a single place on Azeroth (i.e. cast a spell) to create a localized "foothold" for the Nether itself in which the planet's rigid stability is offset, allowing for a coinciding point of stability to be manifested within the Nether and create both "ends" of a portal.

Similarly, it could justify the need for such to be done at both ends between Draenor and Azeroth; Medivh and Gul'dan would have thus had to each create a respective point of chaotic arcane energies as an "anchor" at each point of origin on the physical plane, while at the same time counterbalancing each and providing a common avenue of travel via the same shared point of stability within the Nether. In short, creating two portals that exist at different points in physical space, but exist at the same point in time and space within the Twisting Nether. Perhaps especially rendered notable when one considers the side effect of the rampant energies in Hellfire Peninsula altering the Blasted Lands to a similar state as long as the portal remained open. In-game scale (even between things similarly in-game) isn't an exact science in WoW, but it might be that both regions are of either comparable geological size or afflicted by comparable degrees of fel saturation (if one were to manage quantifiable measurement of such a thing), representing the Dark Portal itself essentially "correcting" the balance of energies on either end to mirror each other, and stopping short once such a balance was achieved.

The Twisting Nether, however, likely has no (or very few) naturally occurring or viably persistent points of stability upon which to indefinitely anchor a portal between it and the physical plane, forcing the Legion to maintain a constant flow of energies from an invaded world to keep their portals stable enough for a continued invasion. Perhaps, theoretically, explaining why the portal in Dalaran didn't remain fully active and keep spitting out demons to overwhelm the Eastern Kingdoms after Archimonde and his vanguard left to invade Kalimdor, and why it had to be reopened by Vashj and Kael'thas to escape from Garithos in TFT.

Rather than a deliberate force field keeping demons out (which raises the question of how they kept invading back when Sargeras was mopping them up for the Pantheon), since demonic incursion is so often intrinsically tied to the presence of chaotic magic on a given world, it might be that the very act of Reordering Azeroth and other worlds the Titans visited fundamentally "shifted" them away from the Nether, while world that aren't Reordered (or aren't as far along in the process) are still chaotic enough in their underlying nature that they're closer to the Twisting Nether on the "spectrum" of order and chaos for those within the Nether with sufficient power to directly affect them without needing assistance from the physical plane.

Such a theory could mean that the chaotic state of primordial worlds essentially puts them with one toe "within" the Twisting Nether; enough so that Reordering them essentially dredges them up from the depths of entropy and pulls them farther toward the order and stability of the physical plane.

Which causes me to consider such a thing's hypothetical part in the fate of Draenor. Ner'zhul created many portals at the same time, which based upon the above, would constitute essentially grabbing hold of the Nether itself, drawing it into the physical plane, and displacing it with energies from this side. Energies which Gul'dan alone did not provide to his creation of Draenor's Dark Portal. Ner'zhul had no aid from the worlds he sought to invade. He had no counterbalance to compensate for half of each portal's displacement. No Medivh to do the same thing as he at each target world and provide their quantity of energies from the physical plane as he was doing. Nobody to "meet his spell halfway" at the point of convergence within the Nether and stabilize the portals. So what happened? The imbalance between the Nether and physical plane demanded compensation. Something had to be contributed to fulfill the missing half of the equation. And so Draenor itself was pulled into the Twisting Nether to offset the deficiency in chaotic magics, creating what we now know as Outland.

In a way it would of make sense of how poorly things went with Ner'zhul's portals beyond "it was just too much power!" by suggesting a functional failure due to a vital lacking on the part of the shaman's spellcraft. Medivh was infinitely more powerful than Ner'zhul, or even Gul'dan for that matter, yet even he needed help from the other side to create a stable portal between only two worlds. Even he, with all his power and knowledge (and Sargeras' knowledge), couldn't do it by himself. Yet Ner'zhul - an amateur arcane spellcaster at best compared to either Gul'dan or Medivh - was using Medivh's own notes, and trying do something that the Last Guardian himself was not even capable of doing: creating multiple stable portals between worlds all at once, without someone working on each destination world to provide their own mirroring of his spell.

By creating half of the spell without its counterbalance, he created a vacuum, and as nature abhors a vacuum, something had to fill it. That something ended up being Draenor, as without anyone on the other planets participating, those planets weren't properly anchored to the process, and so the point of origin presented the only source of tangible energies involved in the construction of the spell to fill that void, causing massive chunks of Draenor to be yanked into the Nether until the spell's magics were finally displaced and the new portals, lacking a solid destination to keep them stable, shut down once the energies fueling them were displaced by the mass of the planet.

Even the Shattering on Azeroth carries the sense that the Elemental Planes were drawn closer to the physical plane by the elemental energies on the latter being thrown into a chaotic state more akin to the former. Hence mages being able to summon elementals by channeling chaotic - arcane - magic to perhaps create a localized point of elemental disruption, resulting in the manifestation of elementals from the chaotic Elemental Plane.

Just theorizing here, but still...

Last edited by ARM3481; 05-03-2012 at 09:18 PM..
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  #235  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:17 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by GenyaArikado View Post
Inb4 they recklessly they destroy the thing and the southern part of EK gets blown up to pieces.
Oh, might as well.

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
Oh I know. So they do have to do it on other planets as well, though not all it seems.

So the question would be what makes Azeroth special and does that also relate to Draenor since demons both needed to be summoned there, if you make the assumption that it's not common.

It could also be that some worlds are better connected to the Nether in some way allowing demons to move over easier as well.
I think summoning demons is the equivalent of, well, using a summoning stone, whereas going through the nether is the equivalent of walking to the dungeon. Sure, you could walk to the dungeon, but you'd rather get there now in order to help out your allies.
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3) You can't leave the game.

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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #236  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:27 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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*ARM post*




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  #237  
Old 05-03-2012, 10:10 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
Oh I know. So they do have to do it on other planets as well, though not all it seems.

So the question would be what makes Azeroth special and does that also relate to Draenor since demons both needed to be summoned there, if you make the assumption that it's not common.

It could also be that some worlds are better connected to the Nether in some way allowing demons to move over easier as well.
I dunno, I just assumed that Velen's vision was on fast-forward, if that's what you're talking about.

It could also be a manner of distance, perhaps.
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  #238  
Old 05-04-2012, 04:40 AM
Finarfin Finarfin is offline

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*ARM post*




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Hahaha. Agreed. I always find ARM's posts to be quite interesting but the sheer length of that last post and the fact that I'm currently half asleep made me skip the rest for later till I saw that tumblr gif of yours
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