Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #76  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:35 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,521

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingGod View Post
That's the easy part. Stick 'em with the other Highborne, and don't ahve them have demons out. It's not like NPCs can read the tags under their name.
I was always under the impression that Malfurion or his druids could feel when someone fel tainted was in Darnassus and/or when that someone practiced his craft, I imagine someone practicing fel magic for the first time would also alert someone. If I remember correctly, he also stepped in when some highborne were trying something in Wolfheart. They could still pull it off of course, but meh.
Reply With Quote
  #77  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:41 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalpimp View Post
I was always under the impression that Malfurion or his druids could feel when someone fel tainted was in Darnassus and/or when that someone practiced his craft, I imagine someone practicing fel magic for the first time would also alert someone. If I remember correctly, he also stepped in when some highborne were trying something in Wolfheart. They could still pull it off of course, but meh.


Is it possible for magic users like Mages to sense Fel magic or shadow magic at all? This actually just occurred to me and I'm wondering about it.
Reply With Quote
  #78  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:47 PM
DreamingGod DreamingGod is offline

Priestess of the Moon
DreamingGod's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 515

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
Is it possible for magic users like Mages to sense Fel magic or shadow magic at all? This actually just occurred to me and I'm wondering about it.
According to tLG, spells seems sluggish where demon summoning occurred. And yes, I imagine there would be some suspicious 'whats' but we can assume they'd get away with it. Warlocks seem to survive no matter what scrutiny is on them.
__________________
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
"In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits Dreaming"

"Icrecrown: I hear the natives can be real liches..."
Reply With Quote
  #79  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:51 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingGod View Post
According to tLG, spells seems sluggish where demon summoning occurred. And yes, I imagine there would be some suspicious 'whats' but we can assume they'd get away with it. Warlocks seem to survive no matter what scrutiny is on them.


Yeah especially with them walking with their demons in the Cathedral District.......>_>
Reply With Quote
  #80  
Old 05-04-2012, 12:51 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,521

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
Is it possible for magic users like Mages to sense Fel magic or shadow magic at all? This actually just occurred to me and I'm wondering about it.
I think it depends on how powerful said magic users were, but if i recall correctly, arcane/fel magic in general leaves a sort of 'signature' in the place a spell was cast. I think Khadgar says something along those lines in 'The Last Guardian'.

In the case of night elf warlocks, their magic would leave 'marks' on the natural part of Darnassus, which Malfurion and other powerful druids might detect. Of course, I guess the warlocks could just practice in a contained space, with wards and stuff like that, but I'm not sure if that would work. Then again, Blizz could just make it work but eh, I'm reticent when it comes to warlocks in Darnassus.
Reply With Quote
  #81  
Old 05-04-2012, 01:38 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,942

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
Is it possible for magic users like Mages to sense Fel magic or shadow magic at all? This actually just occurred to me and I'm wondering about it.
Fel magic in particular puts off a sort of detectable radiation; hence its tendency to corrupt its surroundings with or without the conscious desire of its user to do so.

Additionally definitely Jaina and I believe Khadgar as well both displayed signs of physical discomfort triggered by close proximity to fel energies at Dreadmist Peak and Shadowmoon Valley (respectively), so it's likely that fel magic is particularly traceable by individuals already sensitive to arcane energies if it's inciting nausea in mages just by being nearby. Plus, any spell or mechanism designed to seek and destroy demons or undead (like the Titan defenses in Sholazar) obviously must possess a means of detecting the nature of the energies present and classifying them.

Shadow magic's harder to explain, since its canonical references aren't as extensive as those of fel magic or even necromancy, and it appears as a subset of other magics as often as its own standalone school of magic. A shadow spell cast by a demon would probably be inherently fel-corrupted by the demon's own nature, while one cast by a shadow priest wouldn't be, a necromancer's shadow magics might be formed as part of the Scourge's necrotic undeath energies, and voidspawns' shadow spells in-game (as well as their demon classification) are currently in a sort of definition "limbo" given the somewhat uncertain nature of the relationship between and references to shadow and void energies.

Whether someone could detect purely shadow magic is uncertain. Could someone detect the Light's energies (aside from seeing them) for that matter? Being part of the universe's fundamental natural energies might render Light and Darkness only detectable by mundane means, i.e. tangible/visible manifestations and the lasting effects they have upon their surroundings. Or they may share a form of recognition, in which individuals attuned to Light would instinctively sense Shadow and vice-versa, but other schools of magic wouldn't necessarily be capable of as much.

Though on the other hand, arcane magic seems to interact with all other forms of magic on a basic level as pure energies, so a mage who knew how might be able to construct spells for detecting Shadow or Light magics, even without the same natural sensitivity they seem to possess toward fel energy.

Of course, shamans and druids would have the benefit of being able to commune with the local spirits and extrapolate the presence of corrupting energies from them, though that becomes complicated when such magics are expressly warping the behavior and perceptions of said spirits and driving them mad, as it did with the corruption of Teldrassil itself.

Last edited by ARM3481; 05-04-2012 at 01:42 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 05-04-2012, 01:54 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 19,318

Default

Considering the fact that there are worgen warlocks residing in Darnassus I'd say that hiding amongst Night Elves must be possible. If a worgen can do it, why shouldn't the highborne be able to do so?
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 05-04-2012, 01:57 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

Eternal
Royalpimp's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,521

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Considering the fact that there are worgen warlocks residing in Darnassus I'd say that hiding amongst Night Elves must be possible. If a worgen can do it, why shouldn't the highborne be able to do so?
I have no idea how I forgot that.
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Considering the fact that there are worgen warlocks residing in Darnassus I'd say that hiding amongst Night Elves must be possible. If a worgen can do it, why shouldn't the highborne be able to do so?

By that logic Draenei and other Night Elves could be warlocks because of them hiding in Stormwind. We all know that's a big stretch to...I would hope.
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:10 PM
Urth Urth is offline

Eternal
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,713

Default

Well I for one ain't going to knock you for overlooking one of Blizzard's afterthoughts.

Someone wake me when Naga Shamans are playable.
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:20 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 19,318

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
By that logic Draenei and other Night Elves could be warlocks because of them hiding in Stormwind. We all know that's a big stretch to...I would hope.
We'll if the security is lax enough, why shouldn't certain individuals be able to take advantage? What stops night elves from becoming warlocks is not the danger of being discovered, but their lack of disposition for the profession. If that were to change I'd see no reason for preventing the inclusion of playable warlocks.
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:22 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 5,942

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Considering the fact that there are worgen warlocks residing in Darnassus I'd say that hiding amongst Night Elves must be possible. If a worgen can do it, why shouldn't the highborne be able to do so?
Though I hate to say it, I'm inclined to call "game mechanic" on that one. More than most classes, warlocks don't seem like the sort to actually be fielding trainers in every capital city expressly to train the up-and-coming competition out in the open. Canonically it seems more likely that a warlock has to go out of his way to travel the world seeking the places where warlocks congregate in secret - which probably wouldn't include Teldrassil - and learn what he can from each one he finds, rather than simply visiting any city or township's local warlock representative and checking in. Especially since becoming a warlock within the lore generally assumes that the individual possesses at least a moderate amount of training with some other school of magic beforehand.

Lore-wise, rather than certain warlocks pretty much professionally training recruits, it seems to me more like they'd learn their craft by doing things like tracking down lone warlocks hiding in the dark corners of the world and convincing them to share knowledge, or enlisting in various demon-worshiping sects like the Burning Blade, pretending to be loyal, then leaving quietly to find a new source of knowledge once they've learned what they can from the warlocks in its ranks.

Personally, I suspect a lot of the "canonical" player-warlocks to have worked with the villainous warlock-heavy factions on-and-off, pretending to be loyal but really only stealing their secrets in anticipation of betraying them. Additionally, I'd imagine a lot of warlocks' knowledge stems from shadowy, cross-factional interaction between warlocks in the Horde, Alliance and "other", since their craft already causes most of them to lay low and avoid close scrutiny from their own factions anyway, and political allegiances would likely take a backseat to their pursuit of personal power.
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:27 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
We'll if the security is lax enough, why shouldn't certain individuals be able to take advantage? What stops night elves from becoming warlocks is not the danger of being discovered, but their lack of disposition for the profession. If that were to change I'd see no reason for preventing the inclusion of playable warlocks.


I still think Night Elf and Draenei warlocks are off the lists. Besides, I think we got enough classes and races for a LONG WHILE. It would be better to do other things to do but that's another thread.
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:30 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 19,318

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
I still think Night Elf and Draenei warlocks are off the lists. Besides, I think we got enough classes and races for a LONG WHILE. It would be better to do other things to do but that's another thread.
I don't care one way or another, I just wanted to point out that Darnassus might not be as dangerous for warlocks as some think. That said though, ARM is probably right and the warlock trainers are only there for gameplay purposes.
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 05-04-2012, 02:34 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I don't care one way or another, I just wanted to point out that Darnassus might not be as dangerous for warlocks as some think. That said though, ARM is probably right and the warlock trainers are only there for gameplay purposes.


That and Broken Warlock trainers in Shattrath.




Reply With Quote
  #91  
Old 05-04-2012, 04:41 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

Elune
Millenia's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,262
BattleTag: Millenia#1386

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
That and Broken Warlock trainers in Shattrath.




The Naaru are expressly okay with demons in Shattrath, so as long as they're not working for the Burning legion. I assume they'd think the same of warlocks.

Of course, reasonably restrictions would be in place, like not having demons out and whatever.
__________________
"All right, I'll get that kid to eat. Where's my screw driver and my plumber's helper? I'll open up his mouth and I'll shove it in."


The Alliance's three rules on faction conflict:
1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
Reply With Quote
  #92  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:27 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 19,318

Default

Why do we even use the night elve's dislike of demons and fel magic to gauge the likelihood of night elf warlocks? Most cultures/races are adverse to the idea of practicing demon magic and jet 9 out of 13 races have warlocks. No matter how many PC warlocks you might see running around, warlocks are few and far in between, and they won't announce their career openly to anyone. Why should night elven warlocks be any different?

If Blizzard ever decides to allow the creation of night elf warlocks, the majority of the elves will probably not accept warlocks amongst their mids nor view this class favorably. Could this prevent Blizzard from creating this class-race combination? Probably not. Could the fact that some people are able to sense fel magic prevent them from doing so? Not likely, else wise most warlock coves hiding in the capitols would have been wiped out by now.

Last edited by Nazja; 05-04-2012 at 05:30 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #93  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:32 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
Why do we even use the night elve's dislike of demons and fel magic to gauge the likelihood of night elf warlocks? Most cultures/races are adverse to the idea of practicing demon magic and jet 9 out of 13 races have warlocks. No matter how many PC warlocks you might see running around, warlocks are few and far in between, and they won't announce their career openly to anyone. Why should night elven warlocks be any different?

If Blizzard ever decides to allow the creation of night elf warlocks, the majority of the elves will probably not accept warlocks amongst their mids nor view this class favorably. Could this prevent Blizzard from creating this class-race combination? Probably not. Could the fact that some people are able to sense fel magic prevent them from doing so? Not likely, else wise most warlock coves hiding in the capitols would have been wiped out by now.


Because the argument is solid and makes sense. It makes a lot more sense then saying Tauren can't be rogues because of Hooves. The only thing close to a warlock a Night Elf COULD BE is a Demon Hunter.
Reply With Quote
  #94  
Old 05-04-2012, 05:43 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

Trade Baroness
Nazja's Avatar
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 19,318

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
Because the argument is solid and makes sense. It makes a lot more sense then saying Tauren can't be rogues because of Hooves. The only thing close to a warlock a Night Elf COULD BE is a Demon Hunter.
It wouldn't have made sense before the return of the Highborne. Now it does. What prevents young night elven mages from being seduced by the power of fel magic? Whenever a society has mages some of them are bound to give in, and, even after 10,000 years of rejecting the arcane (which for night elves isn't as long as it would seem to us), night elves are no different. If anything their past shows that they are prone to this.

Anyways I shouldn't continue to post in favor of night elven warlocks, lest you think I actually want them to exist. It just strikes me as odd that you guys seem to be raising the bar when it comes to night elves. Why should their adversity be used as an excuse to inhibit night elven warlocks when other races, in the same situation, have playable warlocks?

Last edited by Nazja; 05-04-2012 at 05:48 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #95  
Old 05-04-2012, 06:02 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
It wouldn't have made sense before the return of the Highborne. Now it does. What prevents young night elven mages from being seduced by the power of fel magic? Whenever a society has mages some of them are bound to give in, and, even after 10,000 years of rejecting the arcane (which for night elves isn't as long as it would seem to us), night elves are no different. If anything their past shows that they are prone to this.

Anyways I shouldn't continue to post in favor of night elven warlocks, lest you think I actually want them to exist. It just strikes me as odd that you guys seem to be raising the bar when it comes to night elves. Why should their adversity be used as an excuse to inhibit night elven warlocks when other races, in the same situation, have playable warlocks?


It's mostly their race and how they've come off as since the beginning. If they were depicted differently I may be singing a different tune.
Reply With Quote
  #96  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:34 PM
Lowtide Lowtide is offline

The eyeconic Titleless
Lowtide's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,571

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valius View Post
That and Broken Warlock trainers in Shattrath.




Ever visited the Silver Convenant district since Cataclysm? They have a Warlock trainer there now

And you can make any race/class combo possible through any bullshit means. Doesn't mean you have to. I feel race/class restrictions bring some flavor to the individual races.

So fuck Shamans and Warlocks (and Rogues and Mages and Paladins and Druids) for everyone
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungleluke View Post
Taking a shit on the toilet and deliberately avoiding those discussions.
Reply With Quote
  #97  
Old 05-04-2012, 07:43 PM
Valius Valius is offline

Chimaera
Valius's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 251
Send a message via MSN to Valius

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lowtide View Post
Ever visited the Silver Convenant district since Cataclysm? They have a Warlock trainer there now

And you can make any race/class combo possible through any bullshit means. Doesn't mean you have to. I feel race/class restrictions bring some flavor to the individual races.

So fuck Shamans and Warlocks (and Rogues and Mages and Paladins and Druids) for everyone

I'm very aware of the that fact.
Reply With Quote
  #98  
Old 05-04-2012, 08:30 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

Elune
Fordragon's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Furillo, Furillo Province, Grand Duchy of Furillo
Posts: 5,043

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
I don't care one way or another, I just wanted to point out that Darnassus might not be as dangerous for warlocks as some think. That said though, ARM is probably right and the warlock trainers are only there for gameplay purposes.
The one in the basement of the Slaughtered Lamb makes sense; a basement should be the norm for warlock trainer placement.
__________________
"Damn, snowcone, what were you for Halloween, a bitch? You best be ready for this shit, Cranberry Juice, cuz you bout to get FUCKED." -L Dubba E
Reply With Quote
  #99  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:47 AM
Nindoriel Nindoriel is offline

Demon Hunter
Nindoriel's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 427

Default

Technically, every member of any race can become whatever class they want.
There's no reason a night elf should not be able to become a paladin.
But certain race/class combos are less likely to be seen.
If there are no restrictions, we would have lots of Gnome Druids jumping around in Ironforge, which would feel weird.
Reply With Quote
  #100  
Old 05-13-2012, 08:11 AM
Exxile87 Exxile87 is offline

Elune
Exxile87's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: One nation, under Bloo
Posts: 7,624
BattleTag: Exxile87#1525
Send a message via AIM to Exxile87 Send a message via Yahoo to Exxile87

Default

There shouldn't be race/class restrictions at all.
__________________
Khadgar: Prepare to heroically CTRL-E through the portal with me!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:35 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.