Well, as the Nobundo story shows, the orcs were a bit more sadistic, depraved and evil than Americans. They didn't exactly do it out of self defense either, though that may have been one initial excuse. They enjoyed it.

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The "humans and draenei" were not under an oppressive regime that was slaughtering them left and right either. But that's besides the point.

You have to remember that this was after the majority of them finally drank the blood of mannoroth, basically sealing the deal and driving them more insane loco then they were before the bloodlust took them. Even if they didn't enjoy bloodshed on the same level before, the blood made them enjoy it, its like getting high on an illegal substance, you kind of get out of your head during the high.

Also, I was speaking about ROTH. The orcs only attacked the Draenei because Ner'zhul, speaking for the "ancestors", said that the Draenei were about to mount an attack to wipe out the orcs. They saw the war as simply a pre-emptive strike, and slowly as they were corrupted by demon magic, and finally the blood infecting most of them, they lost the entire idea of self defense and simply killed for the sake of killing.

Even LOTC hinted that the orcs killed the Draenei for a reason, a reason that Durotan himself later on realized was probably not deserved of them.

That I can understand, but try to tell me that they shouldn't be held responsible for the First and Second Wars, and I'll openly laugh at you. I get sick and tired of people saying things like "the Legion FORCED them to do it" or "the Legion was controlling them" They did no such thing, Kil'jaeden didn't even tell them to go kill the humans. Gul'dan promised them land to conquer and more enemies to fight and they happily marched through the portal.

The Blood of Mannoroth amplifies the thing that is already there, it didn't put something into them that they didn't already have.

If you take drugs and then go out and kill people while under the influence, shouldn't you be punished still?

I could go into the fact that, thanks to their stupidity, they sort of "killed" Draenor, leading to the main reason they were looking for new land, conquest was more of a bonus. Also, even if not Kil'jaeden, the Legion did tell them to kill the humans, aka Medivh/Sargeras, who said he wanted the humans dead in his dream communication with Gul'dan as revenge.

I won't argue with you, but you need to stop thinking that such is only something that would happen to orcs. You are implying heavily that only the orcs would become raging monsters drinking the blood taking out all this aggression, but the fact is, if we switched roles and the humans were instead in the position, it more likely then not be the same outcome, since in the heart of all humans or orc, tauren or night elf, there is a darker side ready to come out should something give it a push.

Yes they should be punished.

Now it depends what you consider punishment. If we go back to the whole idea of war, then all orcs were POWs, as such, 20 years of imprisonment and humiliation can be considered punishment, enough punishment? Depends on the person, but I think it was a start. Now its in the orcs corner to make up for the sins, which they have done in some method after the Battle of Mount Hyjal defense, the defense of Azeroth from the Scourge, Burning Legion, and Old Gods in recent times, and other changes for the better they have brought, like the reunification of the Tauren, the rescue of the Darkspear, and questionable alliances aside, the mercy for the Forsaken and Blood Elves trying desperatly to rebuild in hostile territory.

So while the orcs have not done anything for the humans themselves, they have done much for the world as a whole and its continued survival, so important that if they didn't exist the world would have ended, and that, if you ask me, goes a long way to redeeming them for their sins, defending the planet they themselves almost destroyed.

I'm not saying that they haven't moved steps towards making it right, I think they have done what they could. I just think it's a good idea that we understand WHY the humans still hold a grudge instead of just going "the orcs didn't mean to do it, the humans should get over it" thing that seems to be on alot of people's minds these days.

And no I'm not anti-Horde.

No one here gives me the impression that we think what the Horde did was right, we simply believe there was more to it then "Orc Bad, Human Good" throughtout the entire history, but all of us agreed that the orcs at the time were blood tainted insane killers, unable to control themselves due to being lost in the lust of blood and carnage that was cursed on them.

If you wish to stop people from arguing about the Horde being the "good guys" during the First and Second War, then you need to preach to them, otherwise you are just preaching to the choir.

It's not you guys really, I know you know better. It's the WoW community at large. And they won't listen!

Fortunately Horde who won't listen can just be bagged and shot.
Not as easy on my server though, it's PvE unfortunately.
That's why I use newbies as bait.

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I tend to hang out with my lowbie friend (63 compared to 70) while she's questing, hovering above her as she's flagged. If someone attacks her, I drop down, cyclone his ass and sick my trees on him.

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Bahaha, that's the idea.

I used to get really low level players aside, post them outside a Horde base and wait for the players to come out to gank them. I break Shadowmeld, and enjoy the carnage. Such as in Ashenvale, somebody questing giving me a moment of his time to stand close to Splintertree.
A shame Azeroth is so empty now.

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