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As for the language map, I say this:

1) Unite Glenish and Lowlander into one Lowland Country accent.

2) Expand Keelish into western Headlands, perhaps call it West Headland dialect. Note the differences between the language spoken it the farmland and in the city.

3) Northgate/NorthernHeadlands and the islands in Gilnean Chanell into East Headland dialect.

4) Expand more on the specifics of East Country dialect, on why is it different: trolls, Kul Tiras, Hillsbrad-Southshore or other differences?

5) Greymane City is harder. Make a note on language of nobles and administration being different from that of the merchants. Perhaps with a specific dialet (like the Merch) for merchants and other burgegs with full citizenship, with the "low class" commoners coming to the city from East country speaking on a dialect from there?

6) Really divide the Pinnish zone, where the cultural differences are eminent. First, have the commonfolk of Pyrewood region speak Gilnean-Common dialect (Pyrish? North Country?), with Silverlaine-based aristocracy adopting a more Lordaeronian-influenced form.

7) Second, have the Ambermill region speak on a Lordaeronian-Common based dialect, instead of a Gilnean one, bring more cultural diversity to the kingdom, especially where the situation helps: the town still has standard Lordaeron-Stormwind architecture, unlike the updated Gilnean Pyrewood, and, as far as I know, the locals don't speak with the fabled accent. Or perhaps it has been a fief of Dalaran since before the Third War? You decide.

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I would imagine, excepting the Gilnean worgen, that now that the Gilneans are back in the world, that depending on the war and if Gilneas is retaken, that we could see some of the industrial side of Gilneas come back out, especially if they had any military industrial capacity and how much Genn would be interested in trying to promote it.

Now as for the education side of things, you would be correct. In order to develop any kind of industrial capacities, repleat with factories and things such as that, it would require higher education especially focused on engineering and physics. If we step out of the education standards of the "middle ages"- i.e. education only for the nobles and the churches, then Gilneas should have a eduation standard that it more widespread amongst it's populace which would stand out amongst the other human kingdoms and might follow the dwarven or gnomish education standards, if we knew anything about theirs. But why are they not mentioned, or seen? Probably for the same reasons why we don't talk about the dwarves, gnomes or even the other kingdom's education patterns in detail. It doesn't matter to the story of Warcraft. Only when a plot line, such as the wonder Mistmantle questline, is involved do we get surface story about the education patterns of Stormwind and such. But if Blizzard said that Gilneas had a Oxford, or a MIT it would come to no surprise.

The medicine and alchemy speaks greatly to idea that Gilneas had a higher education and also shows the effects that human druidism can have as well.

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Meanwhile.... back at the

Have you done a foreign relations section yet?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fojar Leviathon you're seriously the worst mod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarahmoo Go back to being the worst mod in the universe.

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Originally Posted by Anansi Scrolls of Lore Rule #61: Leviathon is the worst Mod.

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The recently added Gilnean miner and engineering trainers in Darnassus give me hope. The industrial Gilneas, among it's other factors, is what made Gilneas my favorite kingdom in Warcraft and I really hope that they just don't throw it all away and replace it with a more night elf-centric race.

It would prove that dwarven connection to see and would make sense, that if Gilneas City is ever made a true capital, or some other part of Gilneas was made the new capital to see dwarves and gnomes making a huge part of that rebuilding effort.

I wouldn't doubt it. Considering that the other human kingdoms weren't as industrially minded and dwarves/gnomes have been doing it longer then any other Alliance race, having Archibald learn a thing or two would've given Gilneas an edge and set them apart from the other human kingdoms, which would fit into what little we have read about him.

Also, I wonder if there was more then one mine operation in Gilneas in order to provide the amount of metal/ore for those cannons? The one mine that we see in the starting zone is huge while the mine out by Ambermill is smaller.

Considering just how important cannons are to Gilneans, enough for Darius to smuggle them them into Gilneas as a lynchpin for his rebellion as well. Do we know if dwarves were the first with the cannons? The night elves always used bastillas and the humans used bastillas.... which, at least with modern warfare, evolved into cannons. I wonder, based upon what we have seen, if cannons were a important cultural and military part of Gilneas and why? Could the Gilneas industry have involved assembly line production?

That questline, besides the Onyxia questline, was the only questline that I made every single one of my Alliance toons play through. Just reading his quotes, his life and how he began to descend was for me like reading a H.P. Lovecraft story. Plus, it gave us insight into something that was barely ever talked about- education for the masses.

I'd wonder if the hospitals were run through the Church or if they would have secular hospitals as well. I would lean toward the secular considering, despite the large church, there appears to be only two Gilnean priestess and the Gilneans had to use that night elf-forget-her-name as one of their trainers. Considering the IV bags, I wonder if they had pharmacutical compaies for mass-production?

I would have thought that the Royal Chemist would have been the trainer, but he isn't for whatever reason. But since the night elves have provided an alchmey trainer, and the worgen provided the miner/engineer trainer that Darnassus was lacking.

Makes you wonder.... were those Forsaken..... Gilnean?

Also consider that since they were added only recently and because Darnassus didn't have a engineering trainer, maybe because engineering isn't a night elf thing, so hopefully it was to show the industrial side of Gilneas and not because only worgen and night elves use darnassus and only worgen engineers made sense between the two.

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Meanwhile.... back at the

Nevertheless, the town's buildings are quite different from the usual Gilnean style. Culture differences!

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I'm thinking of making a little research on the feudal system of Gilneas. Shall I present it in yout thread later, Genesis?

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The Kingdom of Gilneas is seen today as the most economically developed realm among the human nations, the pioneer in machinery and industry, with “industrial” being a prominent moniker used to describe Gilneas City, or even the whole nation. However, one must note that this development is relatively new, starting with the late King Archibald Greymane and his loyal vassal Lord Ashbury I, who, as His Majesty Genn Greymane noted, “built up the country”, without any help from neither Lordaeron, nor Stormwind, nor the Thalassian “demi-humans”. In fact, despite its great technological development, the social-economic life of Gilneas is still plagued by the remnants of feudalism, grossly unlike the classic “knightly” Kingdom of Stormwind, which experiences a rising capitalistic economy.

Alas, with the recent start of the Age of Chaos, as well as the latest social and cultural revolution that happened in Gilnean society after the Cataclysm, it is incredibly hard to create a correct picture of commoner-noble relations in Gilneas, as the “new” Gilnean nation is driven by rather… different social mechanisms. Nevertheless, after taking a look at the role of Gilnean nobility in the kingdom and the vague administrative-territorial system, we can make some assumptions regarding the rights and duties of Gilnean feudal lords, as well as the services the lords would expect from their subjects.

Studying the memoirs of King Genn, one might find the discussion regarding lands being cut off after the Greymane Wall’s construction worthy of interest. Lord Vincent Godfrey calls the lands being cut off “Lord Marley’s realm” – although he does not elaborate on the meaning of the word in context, one may wonder if a word “realm” would be used to describe a man’s personal land property – it sure does not when we describe the realms of Azerothian, Lordaeronian, or any other kings. Lord Godfrey then suggests cutting off “Lord Crowley’s lands”, and immediately elaborates: “Cut off Pyrewood and Ambermill”. While it is not of our knowledge whether Ambermill was in the demesne of Lord Crowley or not, Pyrewood certainly wasn’t – after checking some papers we easily find out that the town was ruled by a council headed by Lord Mayor Morrison. If Crowley does not directly own Pyrewood and its citizens, but the town is still considered to be a part of “his lands”, then we can easily see the feudal structure of “a realm”: town leaders (Mayors, as they are known in Gilneas) and other lesser landowners being subjects to a Lord, who “owns” the land (as much as for the land to be considered “his”). Finally, in the mentioned memoirs King Genn also describes “[Lord Godfrey’s] realm”, as the one being ot the northern borders of, if you let me say, “Inner Gilneas”.

It says something about the power of the King in Gilneas when the Mayors answer to the feudal lords of the realm, rather then directly to the King. Squabbling for territories, as well as for their place in the kingdom’s political system (as seen in Lord Godfrey’s little political play to cut off Lord Crowley’s lands and heighten up the prominence of his own) appears to be a popular method of feudal power-play among the lords of Gilneas. Lands and positions are a way of gaining influence, and the King basically has to bring the most influential lords to, for example, a meeting to discuss the creation of the Alliance. Not being the sole ruler of all land in the kingdom, the King of Gilneas has to make compensations to both the lord of a realm that was damaged by the King’s actions, as well as “the farmers and citizens of his domain”. In fact, the King may wager regarding whether to make an unpopular decision or not when the victim of his actions is noble, “powerful” and “has much influence”, as King Genn described Lords Crowley and Godfrey. The existence of a noble council that is supposed to discuss the King’s planned decisions (as opposed to either a council of all social representatives, or the King having absolute power with a circle of dependent advisors, instead of assertive councilors) also shows the limits of King’s power. We can see that the Lords of Gilneas are important and powerful both on regional and national level, somewhat surprising for a country with economy based on strong city, not mediocre village.

However, it would be unfair to consider Gilneas archaic in its feudalism. While the feudal lords are strong in the upper echelons of political power, they do not own their subjects, and this sense of freedom is strong among the Gilneans. The towns are mostly on their own, ruled by city councils headed by the Mayors and Lord Mayors. Neither farmers, nor the men of craft appear to be suffering from feudal rule either. No variants of serfdom have been reported in the lands of Gilneas, so corvée is out of question. The probable feudal duties of subjects are feudal taxes (natural or monetary), servitude in the lord’s manor, conscription to local or royal militia.

On the other hand, the feudal lords, for all their power, are supposed to be given a feodum for their respective duties under the King’s rule. First and foremost, Gilnean nobles perform knightly duties under the King, serving in royal military forces. During times of great trouble we see nobles from lands far away from the King’s court, like Godfrey, Marley or Ashbury, uniting around the King in the defense of the capital city and the royal demesne (see Appendix 2). The nobles and their own forces do not only serve, but lead the royal militia. For example, during the Second War Lord Vincent Godfrey served as the commander of standing militia in the “peripheral” lands, hoping to achieve notoriety in the Alliance’s united offensive against the Horde. The nobles also “hold” the land given to them, defending the kingdom from all foes – such duty is, apparently, considered honorable and a lord greatly wins from having his realm be the most strategically valuable to the kingdom, as we noted not so long ago from Lord Godfrey’s design regarding the division of Gilneas. And, of course, the lords also serve in the royal noble council, as well as in diplomatic missions to other kingdoms, as mentioned earlier.

The stratification of Gilnean feudal nobility is fairly simple. The strongest of the Lords (as evidenced by a honorific “Lord Greymane”) is the King of Gilneas. The Lords answer directly to the King; they are the strongest feudal land-holders, who rule over their realms-within-a-realm in Gilneas and lead local militia; the strongest of the Lords take part in the royal council and foreign missions. Under the Lords are Barons, a lesser rank, likely describing a noble who is an owner of a sole holding – a Barony (the most prominent of these would be the Barony of Silverlaine, now dreaded as the Shadowfang Keep). It is speculated that Gilneas hosted a number of “unranked” nobles, but the nobility of those is hard to prove. Unlike in Lordaeron and Stormwind, the Church of Holy Light is in no way a feudal landowner, as it appears that Gilneas went through total secularization of church lands and, thus, respective vassals, leaving only the Cathedral District of Gilneas City at the disposal of the Church.

As we see, the nobles of Gilneas are strong and influential and greatly limit the power of the King. They continue to impose the traditional feudal system on the rapidly industrializing country, although the feudal duties of their subjects aren’t very harsh. The noble status remains largely as a road to become a statesman or gain a leading role among the military personnel.


House of Greymane – the ruling royal house of Gilneas. Greatly industrialized and strengthened the kingdom during the reign of King Archibald Greymane. The royal demesne covers the royal City of Gilneas (also known as Gilneas City, Greymane City) and the southern realm centered around the Greymane Manor (the lowlands of Duskhaven and Blackwald).

House of Ashbury – a noble house from the eastern realm. The previous head of the house, Ashbury I held the title of Lord, however his son has only been granted the title of Baron, even while being a close friend of King Genn himself. The reasons for this are unknown (speculating, perhaps Baron Ashbury was not the only son of Lord Ashbury I, and therefore didn’t get the main title, although no other children of the Lord are of knowledge; on the other hand, if Lord Ashbury I was literally the first of his line, perhaps his Lordship was a personal title, one that is not inherited; another speculation is that a Gilnean feodum and its respective title are not simply inherited and are supposed to be given in exchange for service for an amount of time, like a benefice, as opposed to an allod).

House of Silverlaine – a noble house from the “Outer Gilneas”. Represented by Baron Silverlaine, the ruler of Silverlaine keep. Probably a vassal of Lord Crowley.

House of Walden – a noble house from the eastern realm. Represented by the knight Lieutenant Walden of royal guard, and Lord Walden, a supporter of Lord Godfrey’s betrayal of King Genn.

House of Hewell – a noble house from the eastern realm, represented by Lord Hewell. Stayed loyal to King Genn during Lord Godfrey’s betrayal.

House of Godfrey – a noble house from the northern realm, represented by Lord Vincent Godfrey. A supporter of the Alliance during the Second War, he later agreed to King Genn’s isolation project, hoping to cut off the lands of his rival Lord Crowley from the kingdom. Held lands on the southern border of the Greymane Wall, his realm becoming the most strategically valuable among the others after the Norhtgate crisis ended. Had great influence among the eastern lords, united them and betrayed King Genn. Now occupies the Shadowfang Keep.

House of Tulvan – a noble house of unknown origins, represented by Lord Geoffery Tulvan, who became a gladiator in the Twilight Highlands after the fall of Gilneas.

House of Candren – a noble house of unknown origins, represented by Lord Candren, the quartermaster of Gilneas in the Darnassus.

House of Marley – a noble house, supposedly from the northern realm, represented by Lord Marley, whose lands were originally supposed to be divided by the Greymane Wall. He later was among the nobles of King Genn’s court when Genn Greymane contacted the Worgen Curse.

House of Crowley – a noble house from the “Outer Gilneas”, represented by Lord Darius Crowley, overlord in Pyrewood and Ambermill. Supported the Alliance offensive during the Second War, created the Gilneas Brigade to aid Jaina Proudmoore’s expedition to Kalimdor during the Third War. Leader of the Northgate rebels. Leader of the Gilneas Liberation Front. Father of Lady Lorna Crowley, one of the principal leaders during the Gilneas civil war.

House of Mistmantle – a house of unranked nobles. Previous holders of the Manor Mistmantle in the Kingdom of Stormwind.

House of Longshore - nobility highly speculated. Represented by Baron Garvey Longshore, captain of the Heedless, a ship in the pirate fleet of the Southsea Freebooters.

House of Harford - a noble house, likely from the northern country or "Outer Gilneas". Represented by Lord Harford, a former prisoner of Archmage Arugal and a member of the Argent Dawn.

House of Finnson - a noble house of knightly ranks and unknown origins. Represented by Dame Alys Finnsson, a harvest witch in the service of the Twilight's Hammer Clan.

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I'm not sure either, but neither is the Lord the only noble title in Gilneas. I based them more on the fact that they got a property type of "manor", anmed after them, in Azeroth

Of course, I didn't mean to add Lord Mayors into the ranks of nobles, I'm sorry if I confused you. Mayors and Lord Mayors are sure to be elected, - what I was saying is that the Mayors in Gilneas are subordinate to their respective realm lords.

Thank you! How's the map speculation?

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Oh, how could I forget to mention!

Practically every noble house would be named after the place they come from, and lands they would still, in theory, retain even if it isn't the core of their lands. Crowley and Walden very likely did come from some baronies in the lowermost Gilneas and retained those as their birthright. A great example are the Habsburgs, most well known as the emperors of Austria and the kings of Spain, they originally come from the castle of Habsburg in Aargau, Switzerland.

Even the Greymanes have a main manor corresponding to the family name!

Also, I'll confess that I'm completely at loss at where was Lord Marley supposed to rule, so that cuting through his lands wouldn't endanger Crowley's.

That's why I suspect that there is further Gilnean territory north of this fan-created map.

Kir the Wizard: Thank you again for your post. Variant interpretations and new approaches give me something to think about and consider. That's why I heartily welcome such contributions to this thread by you or anyone else who feels so inclined.

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Adding three more houses I missed earlier.

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It's funny that we know more about the Gilnean nobles then we know about the Stormwind nobles.

Unfortunately WoWhead doesn't have filters for race, even if you do it in advanced search and models.

http://www.wowhead.com/npcs=7?filter...;crv=0#100+3+1

For the Gilneas faction

But there are quite a few worgen not in the Gilnean faction and by that I mean that game registers them as not part of the Gilneas faction.

Duskwood worgen
Cenarian Circle worgen
Terrorwulf Packleader (Terrorwulf pack status is unknown)
Brashtide pirates
Sons of Arugal

There might be some I missed, or who's status is unknown.

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Meanwhile.... back at the

The terrorwulf are maybe the Worgen in Felwood, just a theory of some people though.

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In WCII and its related literature, have the Wildhammer dwarves been shown as a distinct entity from the Ironforge ones? I ask because that picture shows only one dwarven representative, and I wonder if Gilneas can be considered friendly with the Wildhammer as much as we can believe they're friendly with the Bronzebeard.

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1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

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