I am inclined to be more optimistic than you; but we shall see.

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The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury. -Marcus Aurelius, the true Emperor of Rome

I think, if we avoid overly complex government ideas, that the best from of government is a benevolent dictatorship, where the dictator rules with the peoples best interests at heart.

Of course weather or not such a man truly exists, a man who is absolutely incorruptible and ethical, is a matter of great debate.





IB4 Various Batman references.

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The Dictator that Libya deserves. But not the one it needs right now.

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The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury. -Marcus Aurelius, the true Emperor of Rome

Each country needs their own Havelock Vetinari.

I am outraged about all this people here talking about the US intervening in south american politics as if it was something good.

South america is the place in the world were all the excuses and arguments of the united states goverment about fighting for democracy and freedom, collapse like a house of cards.

Every intervention in south american politics over atleast the last 100 years, by the hand of the US was only to garantize the establishment of dicatorships which in turn assured their comercial and estrategical interests.

Many times before I spoke here about the kind of regimes the United States not only supported and financed, but also trained. Always of course to no avail, so I will not drag on with that. But I assure you some of them make the taliban look like small innocent children.

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1. Iraq's infrastructure was not very reliable in the first place. The average Iraqi sees no negative impact to delivery of public services. In many cases, they are better for all the roads, hospitals, and schools built by American soldiers and wicked evil contractors from Halliburton. Damn them.

2. I'm sort of with Cantus on Libya. We did a shit job there. Without Congressional approval. We basically lobbed bombs into the country and did nothing to aid a smooth transition to a reasonable new representative government.

3. We did jack shit in Egypt. Now it's another nutjob Islamotocracy. Hoo-fucking-ray. They're Iran 2.0 now. Way to go, Obama. Hooray for isolationism. One more border for Israel to get fucked from.

4. Plenty of Latin American nations enjoy doing business with the United States. US involvement is not a bad thing at all. Costa Rica is practically another state at this point, and enjoys one of the better standards of living of any nation in the region.

I find this pretty contradictory on itself.

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And for this reason I completely agree the US should keep its hands off. I've read through more than enough cases of American intrusion to know that the second the US decides to meddle is the second that nothing good will occur.

Oddly enough those "evil contractors" were cheap corrupt assholes who built shoddy structures. There are numerous news reports over the years showing that even the structures built to house American troops were atrocious at best (my favorite was a leaking sewer line right about a dormitory), much less the stuff they worked on for the rest of the public. Our time in Iraq destroyed far more than it created, and as of right now our intervention has created such instability in the country that it is in fact worse than when we entered. The exact same can be said of Afghanistan, mostly because we never stopped the Taliban. Nor, in fact, did we root out the corruption in Karzai's regime, meaning that we just created yet another future autocratic body. The only other outcome, and the one that's actually more likely to happen, is that the Taliban comes back and all that work we did will be for nothing.
It wouldn't have helped. Libya is not Iraq or even Afghanistan. It's a much more chaotic place with multiple lawless regions and warring factions. There is no transition there because there is no group to put in power. Libya is a clusterfuck, and sticking our nose into it further would've just tied us down even more.

You have literally no idea what you're talking about. Egypt is still run by its military, which is a mostly secular institution that wants to remain comfortably in power. That means it's beholden to US interests, not the Muslim Brotherhood's. Their new president couldn't order a pizza from them, much less a military strike.

So you're saying that Iran-Contra didn't fuck things up horribly in Nicaragua? What about our decisions to back dictatorships in Venezuela or Colombia? How about our Drug War in Mexico, the one that's basically fomented mass murder there for the last decade? Literally nothing we've pushed for or actively done in Central or South America has come out as a net positive.

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Rationalizing the irrational since 2005.

A story I heard about Operation Condor is that, in Paraguay, people who were captured were put in a plane and thrown away without parachutes in the middle of the chaco steppes (an arid region of Paraguay).

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Look at it this way one form of government really does push more to strong capable leaders the other has no real push to that point.
And if you want to say which form of government has been longest lasting and most stable Democracy or Republics are not of that long lasting ilk. Any government can move and change. Democracy works when it has a well educated well infromed and meaning population. Most countries in the world don't have the population to make the most of democracy all the time. It leans on good statesmen. At this time we have very few good statesmen.

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You are avoiding the topic, first of all you do not have the slightiest idea of to how unfair and terrible are the consequences for South American countries of the 'enjoyable bussiness' with the United States.

Historically the United States assured their own interests in South America in whichever way they could, without regard for the suppoused ideals it defends. The fact that the United States historically supported, trained and mantained dictatorships genocidial dictatorships in South America from the moment the United Kingdom lacked the power to do so. All the stuff Cantus mentioned is not even the half of the crimes agains humanity that the United Stated condoned and supported in South America. All in the defense of their own seflish interests.

Not to speak of the hypocrisy of PUERTO Rico, because Costa Rica is thankfully an independent country, unlike Puerto Rico which is United States colony. I do know a person from Puerto Rico, and from what she said and described, I want to tell you there is a VERY big difference between capacity to cosume of some sectors of society and standard of living.

Oh and want an example of the kind of crimes the united states supported? Just read what I answer to Kike-Scott down here.

Here in Argentina the military, trained in the school of the americas in the united states, loved to do something very similar. When of course they weren't shoving living rats up peoples troats or raping pregnated women. They drugged people and trew them out in the 'Rio de la Plata' (That huge estuary between Argentina and Uruguay.

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Your ignorance is disgusting.

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If a nation must be intervened, it must be under the banner of the UN, or even better, regional groups. I don't think Paraguay must be intervended at all. But if any Southamerican nation should... UNASUR should do that, not USA.

The Flights of Death (Los vuelos de la muerte).

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fojar So technically he doesn't feed them to the shark, he accidentally drops them when the Horde player attacks them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Porimlys Fojar, it's been proven time and time again that presenting evidence to you is an exercise in futility.

To be perfectly fair the option to become a sovereign state comes up on a fairly regular basis and they always have their own plebiscite. They almost always vote to remain a US territory, though admittedly the margin has been shrinking.

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Really?

Even an ignorant person can't get past the first paragraph on Costa Rica in Wikipedia without realizing they're better off than any other Latin American nation, by far.

And I know dozens of people who live and work down there - most of them natives, and several Americans who have spent substantial time living there, and even retirees.

So, please, tell me how I can be less ignorant on the topic. You sound like a pissy Nicaraguan.

Even an ignorant person can tell the diference between Costa Rica a sovereign nations and Puerto Rico a United States dependant territory.

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Do a little research on Costa Rica's military and economy, and then tell me again how they're not dependent on the United States.