As I said, those battles occured a long time ago, and lorewise, they would have finished. But the Battle for Gilneas is a new battle, introduced in a new game. It probably started some time after assassinating Creed, as a second Invasion of Gilneas. The Forsaken possibly decided to try and capture it again, even though they had been kicked out of Gilneas earlier.

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The problem is that the Fangs of the Father quests occurs after the Battle of Gilneas has already been implemented. I am of the opinion that we must always consider the latest canon lore to be the most valid.

I'm not saying that the Battle of Gilneas BG is conluded, but I do object to the notion that it'd been staged post-Creeds assassination.

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You just made Terran kill himself. Be ashamed.

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I'm still of the opinion that Gilneas is controlled by neither side but I have started to think maybe at least certain parts of it are still under Alliance control. (Most notably, the 7th Legion and Worgen soldiers still roaming the broken Greymane Wall.)

I'm just absolutely bewildered as to what happened to the Crowleys in all of this mess though. Seeing that they ran back to Gilneas either has me worried or possibly hopeful that they might rein things back in.

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"A few nights back some guy threw a ball and told me to fetch. In response, I did the same, but with his head. Needless to say, he didn't have a witty comeback." - Sniffy Pete

Whatshisname didn't seem to take kindly to the Crowley's dealing with Sylvanas. I'm wondering if perhaps this hasn't caused them to be outcasts amongst the liberation front, perhaps even exiles.

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That was Ivar Bloodfang, I don't think the Crowleys are exiles or anything though. What happened was Ivar pretty much just took his pack and did his own thing, dealing with Shadowfang Keep and endeavors in Hillsbrad. Couldn't trust them anymore since he was expending so much of his men.

Darius and Lorna ran back into Gilneas. Some resolution will come to this some other time I'm quite certain though.

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"A few nights back some guy threw a ball and told me to fetch. In response, I did the same, but with his head. Needless to say, he didn't have a witty comeback." - Sniffy Pete

You're so adorable.

I seriously wish that Crowley would have more of a role in Mists. Wrymbane and the 7th Legion too require more time in the spotlight.

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Stop poisoning my thread by wishing death on other posters for disagreeing with you.

Gilneas underwent a civil war that ended with Gilnean unity in the face of the Forsaken and the Worgen. Godfrey and his company were traitorous but they were dealt with in the end.

There's nothing to suggest that the Blackhowl are formed from some sort of "subversive element" among the Gilneans, and that you're actually putting it forward is a sign that this whole argument is getting fatigued. You're literally beginning to argue that the Alliance lost control of the peninsula and that the Gilneans that we see and are explicitly referred to in the quest are subversive, anti-Alliance Gilneans, that all of this happened off-screen, based on absolutely no evidence.

The Cathedral District is plagued in the Worgen starting area but we see the 7th Legion setting it up as their base camp afterwards.

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"Noble countrymen, evil is upon us. Darkness has befallen our shores. Rise and slay thy enemies… strike, strike so others shall live. The meek shall not fade into the night… live my brethren, live." - King Terenas Menethil II

Godfrey was and still is considered a "Gilnean", traitorous or not. He never dismissed his nationality, nor was it ever stripped off of him.

Nor is there anything to suggest they are made up from Alliance-aligned Gilneans.

You can be "Gilnean" simply from being born and raised in Gilneas. It doesn't matter if you're an alliance werewolf, a horde zombie or if you joined an end of the world cult: Unless you reject your nationality or have it stripped from you by a sovereign, you don't stop belonging to that nationality.

Really, now. That's just basic logic.


Fair enough. I'll accept that as proper evidence of the Cathedral District being habitable.

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Actually, it was. He outright disowns Gilneas after he's rezzed.

Aside from the fact that in Silverpine questing we see that the region they're in was occupied by Gilnean Worgen the last we saw and heard of it. I'm not sure why you keep on discounting this.

If we see Alliance-aligned Gilnean Worgen there at 12:00, and then at 2:00 we see a bunch of Worgen there except now controlled by a black dragon, where should we assume that they aren't the same Worgen?

Godfrey did reject his nationality.

The part of me that was Gilnean died at Tempest's Reach. Only vengeance remains, <name>. To that end, we have work to do. Spare me your pointless queries.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Questyrewood%27s_Fall

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"Noble countrymen, evil is upon us. Darkness has befallen our shores. Rise and slay thy enemies… strike, strike so others shall live. The meek shall not fade into the night… live my brethren, live." - King Terenas Menethil II

Indeed, he did. The point, however, wasn't Godfrey, the point was that one who doesn't reject their nationality can still be referred to as belonging to that nationality. During the civil war in Gilneas, both Alliance-loyalists and Gilnean-supremacist were "Gilnean".

In that same turn, you can still be "Gilnean" if you're a human, worgen, forsaken or pony from Gilneas, regardless if you're currently affiliated with the Alliance, Horde or Twilight's Hammer. Your origin is still in Gilneas. I don't see why we are arguing over this, for surely you aren't actually disagreeing?

Because suddenly, there's a new pack of Worgen in the city. The Blackhowl didn't appear previously.

Again, I have never said that they aren't Alliance. I have said that we don't know this with 100% accuracy, because the truth is, we don't.

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VENGEANCE YOU SAY? VENGEANCE!

Man that's a great lore bit right there. I mean it's not like we've all seen some dead person wanting to get payback on something because something happened.

It's a shame hes gone for good now, he was pretty cool with the gun slinging and all.

You're flip flopping.

The part of me that was Gilnean died at Tempest's Reach. Only vengeance remains, <name>. To that end, we have work to do. Spare me your pointless queries.

This is applicable in real life as well. People CAN renounce citizenship of their home-nations. Conrad Black is a good example, he was born and raised in Canada but renounced his citizenship so that he could sit in the British House of Lords. He was no longer Canadian after he renounced it, just as Godfrey was no longer Gilnean after he betrayed the legitimate government of Gilneas. I'm pretty sure that nobody in Gilneas considers him Gilnean at this point.

After his betrayal of the Forsaken, Godfrey has no nationality. He is no longer Gilnean nor is he Forsaken.

As for how this relates to the topic at hand, if the Blackhowl were always a subversive element fighting against the government of Gilneas, I doubt that Wrathion would refer to them as "Gilnean" instead of "Worgen." This sort of naming convention also applies in real life. Take for example, the current civil war in Syria. People still refer to the government as "Syria" and the rebels as "rebels" despite both of them being of the same country. The rebels don't become "Syria" until they actually overthrow the government. We saw this in Libya as well, with the rebels referred to as "National Transitional Council" until they took the capital and killed Ghaddafi.

In short, Wrathion wouldn't refer to a subversive element in Gilneas as "Gilneans."

I don't see how that matters. Them having a particular name doesn't change the fact that they're Gilneans controlling territory that we last saw Alliance-aligned Gilneans controlling.

And it's a moot point anyway because even if they weren't Alliance and the Alliance had been ousted from Gilneas entirely it wouldn't affect anything that I already have down, I'd just have to add a new battle.

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"Noble countrymen, evil is upon us. Darkness has befallen our shores. Rise and slay thy enemies… strike, strike so others shall live. The meek shall not fade into the night… live my brethren, live." - King Terenas Menethil II

So, when I read this topic at first I was like "That was really well done, but I'm sure someone is going to get mad about something."

I can see the future.

In case you're still working on this, you may want to include the battles of Northwatch Foothold and Tiragarde Keep in Durotar.

"The Horde curbstomped the Humans in Tiragarde Keep and at that silly little camp outside Orgrimmar."



I'm sure he'll add them soon!

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Things Ferlion can't kill: Frost Orbs on LK.

Actually, the sad part is they don't.

They're only temporarily subdued, and it's a major point from several quest givers that neither the Orcs nor the Trolls have the forces to deal with either site.

I believe those humans had assault plans for the Valley of Trials, Razor Hill, and Orgrimmar? Do those targets change depending on your race? I don't remember if the Trolls burned plans for assaulting Sen'jin Village, for example. I might have all the names wrong entirely. But, the implication is that there would have been attacks on those places if our heroes hadn't interfered.

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The Curse of Monkey Island - Part III

I'd probably mark them down as ongoing.

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1) You can't win.
2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

Naval battles off the coast of Tanaris and Tol Barad. The Horde claims decisive victories in both.

Alliance side only comments that Admiral Taylor's (and Prince Anduin's) ship was thrown off course by Horde air fleets, with many casualties. They shipwrecked on the previously undiscovered Pandaria, where the Horde pursued them in a surprise attack.

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The Curse of Monkey Island - Part III

Why would the Alliance be fighting off Tanaris? There's nothing there. Oh well.

Tol Barad is more troublesome, means the Baradin's Wardens are in trouble.

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Things Ferlion can't kill: Frost Orbs on LK.

Likely meant blocking trade.

I suppose the Gnomes are trying to set up camp there, but the Gnomish Fleet is pretty much all Submarines.

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Things Ferlion can't kill: Frost Orbs on LK.