Is Loken another name for Sargeras? Just got an image of him when I read that lol

No. Loken is a stone guardian left by the titans, but he seems to have been corrupted by Yogg-Saron...

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I love draenei girls...

Gotcha, when I thought supreme protector I was thinking titan status. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I thought the old gods were already on azeroth before the titans first came? A bit hazy on the old gods history lol

That's no longer true.

The known lore suggested Old Gods were here before the titans came is because all history records simply begin with the Ordering of Azeroth, nothing pre-ordering is known to us.

According to this new lore, what we know as the Ordering, happened when titans revisited Azeroth. You can called that a retcon...perhaps.

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I love draenei girls...

I see, so the curse of flesh effected the original Earthen who woke up as Dwarves while the new batch stayed as Earthen. How were the seed races like the Vrykul effected with it while the new batch of Earthen stayed Earthen?

Or does it imply the seed races were being made right after the original Earthen?

And now it looks good, the whole story. Old Gods as a kind of sentient parasite race from the deep space looks plausible, at least to me. Good job on it, Blizzard. And even a little retcon looks good this time.

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*throws his Warcraft III manual out the window*

I didn't understand any of that.

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The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury. -Marcus Aurelius, the true Emperor of Rome

Me too I barely understood it, but it seems that the old gods were trying to corrupt titan constructs.

I think they did more than trowing the manual out of the window with this.

Frankly, the only thing about this that peeves me is the whole Aesir and Vanir thing, since I thought those were names for Titan castes, not two different groups of Giants.

As for the rest, it is a bit confusing, but I think I can see what they were going for with it. It looks like the Titans did find Azeroth before the Old Gods, look at how they mention how the world was "seeded" with the Vykrul, Earthen, and Giants. "Seeded" often means you "fire and forget" a lifeform to see how it evolves.

My guess is that after the Titans dropped down and created the Earthen, the Giants, and the Vykrul from the different elements of the world, they left thinking they would work it out themselves and bring order just as they were designed. Where are the Elementals in all this? Most likely living normally in other parts of the world, since all planets have a natural order of elements. When the Old Gods appeared, whether they travelled through space or just appeared on the planet, they corrupted its core, and thus the Elementals tied to the world of Azeroth were shattered and corrupted themselves, forced into service of the Old Gods and then set to spread influence all over the surface of the world, corrupting many of the Titan's creations with the curse of flesh. (Why they would do this, I still don't know).

The Titans returned, and saw the Old Gods and what they had done to the planet and the elements. They fought the Old Gods and shattered them, but learned that due to the corruption, killing off all the Old Gods would lead to the destruction of the planet itself. So they instead locked them deep in the planet. This would actually explain why the Titans imprisoned them, as I always found it odd that the Titans were able to kill one of the Old Gods, yet only imprisoned the others.

The Ordering of Azeroth was probably more of a "rebuilding" project then anything, the Titans trying to fix up the planet after who knows how long under the Old Gods. They may have even figured while they were rebuilding, they could run other experiments they were unable to do through simple seeding, like improving the design of the Earthen (Iron Dwarves), experiment with new lifeforms (Un'Goro Crater and Sholazar Basin), test out new ways to defend from future "infections" (Freya and the Edmwhatever, the Crystal Pylons), and even place down an experimental "Well" that promotes life (The Well of Eternity). The Elementals, many of which becoming far to corrupted (Like Neptulon) were then sent to the Elemental Plane simply so the Old Gods would not longer be able to influence them, since the Old Gods would forever continue to be tied with the planet.

This makes a lot of sense, and would explain why Azeroth, compared to any other world we have seen, is highly unique and seems covered with a history of Titan experimentation. The Titans would have put more investment into it rather then other "seed" worlds. This would also explain why Sargeras desired it so much, since it had more Titan magic then the other worlds he has devoured, and may have even held new secrets developed by his old kin. I think it was becaue of this investment that the Titans are going to return an unheard of THIRD time to the planet sometime on the galactic trip, as hinted by the computer at Uldaur, just to make sure shit didn't hit the fan again.

I have some mixed feelings, I like some things and dislike others, since this new lore sort of make the Titans feel less mythical badasses on a search for order, and more space scientist that like to screw around with nature.

You should've thrown it away back when they retconed the Sargeras thing

Well, back on topic. In order to simplify, I sum up what we know to points below.

1.Titan visited Azeroth, created seed races.
2. Parastic necrophotic symbiotes(aka Old Gods) infected, causing matrix destablization(curse of flesh to the seed races).
3. Titan revisited Azeroth, chained the Old Gods inside their host(Azeroth), made giant protectors/empowered Dragon Aspect.
4. Loken, left by the titans to watch over, apparently was influenced by one of the Old Gods. He made the two giant races go wars, and after that, locked all seed races inside.

Now, what I'm not sure about is the matrix thing. It was also mentioned by the Keeper of Norgannon inside Uldaman. What exactly is this matrix? It really sounds like something that would control the synthesis and evolution of the seed races. Anyone have other thoughts, plz tell me. Or did I misunderstood the whole thing?

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I love draenei girls...

Well, this change isn't all that bad, per se. But I do prefer the old mysterious theme of the Old Gods being primordial Kthulu-like entities, rather than a space virus. This changes my perception of them quite a bit.

And if killing the Old Gods undoes Azeroth, technically us killing C'thun was an atrocity against nature itself. Literally. If they are tied to life in that way, we almost owe them our current existence - perhaps...

...Perhaps the Twilight's Hammer is the path of truth!

Ironically, the orcs and Draenor races of the Twilight's Hammer had nothing to do with this curse of the flesh, and they're the founders of the clan.

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The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury. -Marcus Aurelius, the true Emperor of Rome

Come to think about it maybe the Old Gods arent a virus they just work as one, infecting and corrupting and that's the computer refers to it as a virus, because it's the only way it can describe them.

And it sounds like we'll be killing Yogg-Saron in WotLK. After finding all of this out, wouldn't we decide killing it would be a bad idea?

Also, where the hell do Trolls fit into all of this? What's their origin?

well... who knows.

The two races that always "existed" on azeroth was the Quiraj and the Trolls.

But these days, who can be sure

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I've Warred against Blizzard's foul lore changes and foul and bad events since the beginning of 2006. And I don't intend to surrender!
http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2006/20060410.jpg

fixed atm î

Finally.

Finally we find out why Azeroth got the Well of Eternity, but no other planet did.

I give this retcon two thumbs up. Well thought of and organised.

They actually got it right.

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Co-creator of UFS, a joint urban fantasy setting.

Killing C'thun didn't do anything, so I don't think Yogg-Saron's demise will destroy the world.

I guess this means the dwarves owe their existence to the old gods? I wonder what the Titans will do i they return to Azeroth. I doubt they'll be too happy with the existence of a number of races.

You know how it will end, the Titans will see the world of Azeroth in chaos, will try to reboot it, and lead to us fighting them for our survival. A few twists will happen, maybe involving Sargeras making a return and killing the Pantheon, leading to us winning and the world being safe for the next expansion when they make Hogger the next great enemy.

Oh, as for the Old Gods and Azeroth being destroyed. I think the Titans learned that at least one of them has to live in order to keep the core of the world from destabilizing, and so killing C'Thun didn't do anything, and killing the other Old God didn't do anything, but the last three were imprisoned because it was to risky to leave only one alive which then could die somehow taking the world with it.

That might be a plot point after we kill Yogg and whatever other Old God they throw at us, leaving the last one being all "haha you fools! You kill me you kill yourselves!"

P.S. Now that I think about it, this makes the quest in Shadowmoon Valley a lot more clear. If the Old Gods do act by moving and infecting planets, then Outland was a logical step for them to move due to its importance as a hub. It also explains why the Naaru talked about them as trying to conquer the universe, maybe Azeroth was just one of many planets infected with Old Gods.

So if we kill Yogg we wont be able to stop the one responsible for the nightmare in the esmerald dream.

Not necessairly, Zula. We have the one in Master's Glaive, C'Thun, Yogg-Saron, the Maelstrom one and the Tirisfal Grove one. One of the latter two must be the one of the Emerald Dream. Possibly we would finish up with the Tirisfal Grove one as a lone survivor or... total destruction of Azeroth! Yeah, that's the end that WoW deserves!

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I’m trying to reconcile this with the old lore.

So, the Titans were actually on Azeroth long before when we knew as “The Ordering�. They created the first Earthen and left them to do their shaping thing. During this time, the Old Gods rose to power. While they were taking over the world, they use the “Curse of Flesh� to incapacitate the Earthen. (We’ve heard about this curse before, it being supposedly what afflicted all the Titan creations like the mecha-gnomes and transformed them into organic beings).

So the Titans come back, and then so begins what we knew as the War with the OGs and the Ordering. They imprisoned them because they couldn’t kill them without “destroying� Azeroth. (We really don’t know what this means. Would the planet explode or perhaps would all the Titan’s work just be “curse of fleshed“ and destroyed in their opinion) After they imprison the OGs, they then make new Earthen, make their protectors (storm and earth giants), and appoint the Aspects.

So the original batch of Earthen (made before the sundering) became dwarves. The Titan’s still created Earthen during the Ordering, they just weren’t the ones that became dwarves.

Aesir and Vanir were known as different types of Titan, but it is conceivable that they named the giants accordingly to whichever Titans made them. Let’s say Khaz'goroth, a Vanir, made the Earth Giants and Golganneth, an Aesir, made the Storm Giants. The giants themselves may have been designated in accordance with the Titans that created them.

I think I’m okay with this as it is more of a filling in of details and explanations that we didn’t know rather than outright changing of what we did know.


I foresee us eventually killing off all the Old Gods, the side-effect of which is “destroying� what was left of the Titan’s creations, and then they come back and are pissed off at us for doing so. Races like dwarves, gnomes, maybe humans and others are seen as “infections� of their creations.




Exactly what I was thinking. I don’t think they are literally “viruses�.



Trolls must be the one true natural race, and thus the rightful rulers of the world.

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I like it. And to whomever was complaining that this makes the old-gods less Cthulhu-like, remember, Cthulhu isn't Earthbound, either, and, actually, part of Lovecraft's Cosmicism theory was that he would TAKE the magical and turn it into science fiction!


I like it. This just makes me wonder, though, where do the sea giants and other giants made of flesh factor in?

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I would think that they were also on Azeorth with the original Earthen as the "other systems". Sea Giants were making the seas while Earthen were carving the Earth. They just weren't mentioned because Brann was asking specifically about Dwarves.

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Yeah, but the way I heard it, the titanic creations were all mineral based, and did not become fleshy until after the old gods fucked them over. So where do the sea giants factor in?

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