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Old 05-15-2006, 08:42 AM
Kaziel Kaziel is offline

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Default Metzen Chimes in.

From http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...&T=8333849&P=1

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Hey y'all,

I wanted to drop you guys a line and explain whats up with some of the recent changes you've all been seeing in the lore and specifically address your concerns about the draenei and their revised backstory. Bear with me here, I tend to get a bit wordy as I build up steam.

Anyway, here we go:

Hit #1: Lore Train-Wreck
Right To be totally up-front with you guys, its my bad, straight up. The obvious lore contradiction with Sargeras and his encounter with the eredar was clearly documented in the Warcraft III manual. I wrote those bits about four years ago, and to be totally honest, I simply forgot. Genius, right? With my excitement to get the draenei up to speed and root them more firmly in the setting, I forgot to do my homework and go back over my earlier writing. I can assure you, no ones more crushed about this mistake than I am. Ive spent the last few days kicking my own ass over this one. Sucks to fail. It may not always be evident, but we take this story stuff really seriously at Blizzard. Its been one of my personal missions at this company to maintain a high level of integrity throughout the Warcraft game setting (all of them, actually) and I think weve done a pretty decent job of upholding the continuity over the years.

I think its important to note that world building is far bigger than just storytelling, and it requires (in my humble opinion) a certain amount of flexibility. Sometimes you need to expand certain ideas or retcon whole sections of continuity to broaden the scope and accessibility of your setting. There are a good number of these types of situations already (like totally revising our timeline, suggesting trolls were the progenitors of all elven subspecies, etc. theres a hundred other examples). To make an omelet, ya need to break a few eggs, and WoWs one big omelet.

The trouble is, this has become a pretty big setting. There are literally thousands of characters, hundreds of locations, and all sorts of creatures, items, and plot themes that all define this world. As you can imagine, its a lot to police. Sometimes things do fall through the cracks mistakes get made and were forced to scramble to come up with clever solutions to continuity errors. (Hakkar, anyone? ). You not only have me jamming ideas, but a ninja team of quest designers, an army of freelance RPG writers, and a commando squad of red-hot novelists who are all involved in fleshing out the lore and making it more than just wallpaper on a game.

Im explaining all this not to excuse this particular mistake, but to give you some understanding of how the mistake was made. Ive read a fair amount of posts over the past few days and I know theres a lot of confusion and frustration surrounding the whole eredar/draenei train wreck. Believe me I know exactly how you feel. At the end of the day, were all just a bunch of geeky fanboys and fangirls, and we all get pretty fired up when people start screwing with the worlds we love. If anything, all of the venting and creative suggestions Ive seen over the past few days have reinforced for me the fact that you guys really do care about this world and its troubled denizens.

While I cant promise that these types of mistakes will never happen again, I do want to state clearly that we take the responsibility of crafting and maintaining this lore very seriously. You all pay good money to adventure through this world month by month, and you deserve the best we can give.

Dont lose faith well do ya proud!

Hit #2: So Whats the Story, Blizzard?
Ok, so whats the real scoop behind the eredar/draenei story then? At this point, even though the NEW lore directly counters the Warcraft III manual, were still going to run with it. There are a lot of reasons for this, not the least of which is that I think its far stronger than what I crafted back in the day. The eredar were not necessarily all evil. Sargeras did come to them and tempt them with power. They did NOT make Sargeras crazy. This gives the eredar more dimensionality and roots the draenei to a key moment in Burning Legion history.

Weve also woven all of this new lore into an upcoming novel by Christie Golden (author of Lord of the Clans) that depicts the draeneis escape from Argus and the RISE OF THE HORDE on Draenor. The book DOMINATES, and youre going to really dig it. Durotan, Nerzhul, Guldan, Doomhammer, Hellscream, Kiljaeden, Velen this story is the one youve been waiting for. Im getting geeked up just thinking about it

However, this new lore does leave a large hole how did Sargeras go nuts? What drove him to fall and begin his Burning Crusade? I dont know yet. It will be his encounter with some evil race (who dares me to use Old Gods???), but it wont be the eredar.

Ill chew on this. Maybe well solve this by the end of the expansion. See this is that flexibility stuff I was talking about earlier

Hit #3: World of Spacecrafts
Another concern Ive been hearing about is the inclusion of certain sci-fi elements into the setting. I appreciate that this stuff is pretty far out, but thats the whole point: Outland and the greater universe out there in the void ARE far out. Change is always difficult I remember people getting really upset about dwarves with guns, steam-tech, Gnomeregan as a hi-tech city many people had a hard time rolling with those technologies in a fantasy setting. But I ask you all can you imagine WoW without those elements now?

Were definitely throwing some new concepts at you all, but Im very confident that when youre able to see these elements in context, over the course of the game play youll understand why weve been so excited to include them.

To be clear, were not talking about having the Millennium Falcon cruising around the Twisting Nether (Im certain there would be some legal issues there, to say the least). The draenei nether-ship youve been hearing about is far more than it seems. Its part of a larger dimension-traveling fortress called Tempest Keep that essentially teleports through alternate realities. It doesnt bank and roll or shoot proton torpedoes (not yet, anyway).

While we will be introducing a number of naaru technologies (like this ship, for instance), were not planning on going hog-wild. Conceptual balance is everything. For those of you who are fearful of seeing jet-packs and laser pistols filling up the AH, never fear. If you did see them, theyd likely be goblin engineered and get your character killed anyway.

Hit #4: Blood Elves Sure Get Around
I also saw some strangeness about the apparent contradiction of how the blood elves could have sabotaged the draenei nether-ship since theyre all holed up in QuelThalas. Remember, there are twisted blood elves in Outland who have been there since TFT campaign. Its those creepy elves who sabotaged the draeneis flight to Azeroth.

Id love to elaborate on this further, but Im afraid Id spoil your appetites for dessert.

In conclusion, I just want to reiterate that we do take these continuity errors very seriously.
Its very important to me that you all feel you can trust us as developers and know that were out to build a world thats worthy of your time and your passion.

Thanks for bearing with me here. See yall on the other side of the Portal!

Chris Metzen
5-12-06
Note: May come back, but still not sure. This is not me saying "I'm back". Just reporting news.
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2006, 09:45 AM
Creative Creative is offline

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Fuck?!

He is gonna say Old Gods corrupted Sargeras?!

And Kil'jaeden and Archimonde lost some coolness points in my book.


Edit: Forgot to say its cool But if Old Gods was the ones that corrupted Sargeras...



((Rise of the Horde looks to be cool))
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:46 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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This is the best news for a couple of weeks, and im going on a trip to rome tomorrow!
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:50 AM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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*He is gonna say Old Gods corrupted Sargeras?!*

He didn´t said that.


I´m happy that he admited his error, let´s see if he can calm down from now on and do his homework before doing his lore.


With this, are you going to play Wow again, Kaziel?
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:56 AM
Creative Creative is offline

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"However, this new lore does leave a large hole how did Sargeras go nuts? What drove him to fall and begin his Burning Crusade? I dont know yet. It will be his encounter with some evil race (who dares me to use Old Gods???), but it wont be the eredar."


=O
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:57 AM
Kaziel Kaziel is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative
"However, this new lore does leave a large hole how did Sargeras go nuts? What drove him to fall and begin his Burning Crusade? I dont know yet. It will be his encounter with some evil race (who dares me to use Old Gods???), but it wont be the eredar."


=O
That's not a confession that he's using the Old Gods. *rolls eyes*
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Old 05-15-2006, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaziel
That's not a confession that he's using the Old Gods. *rolls eyes*
It is, in a way
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:00 AM
Vicious Vicious is offline

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Also, "Rise of the Horde" will probably have all of the first chieftains of the Horde, Gul´dan and Ner´zhul also, this book is probably going to rock my sock.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:02 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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But anyway, the news of the year:

WE ARE BETTER IN LORE THAN METZEN!!!!!!
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrah
But anyway, the news of the year:

WE ARE BETTER IN LORE THAN METZEN!!!!!!
I wonder if I can take his job now?
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:09 AM
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I'm very satisfied with this turn out. I retract all my previous statements about the Blizzard company not caring about their lore. I look forward to this new book with open arms indeed.

Come Kaziel, come back into the fold. You're one of the few people who help others understand the lore.

Also in case you didn't catch it, when he said "Who dares me to use the Old Gods" he was making a joke. Because of all the posts saying "Sargeras got corrupted by the Old Gods111"
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:10 AM
Kaziel Kaziel is offline

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Not the first time he's confessed to being wrong ya know... just the first time we've had concrete facts to back up that we were right. Hakkar for example.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:11 AM
Kerrah Kerrah is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Creative
I wonder if I can take his job now?
I know, the ScrollsOfLore community takes Metzens Job!
Quote:
... just the first time we've had concrete facts to back up that we were right. Hakkar for example.
Whatever went wrong with him?
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True glory consists in doing what deserves to be written; in writing what deserves to be read; and in so living as to make the world happier for our living in it.

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Old 05-15-2006, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrah
I know, the ScrollsOfLore community takes Metzens Job!

Whatever went wrong with him?
I can write Warcraft4....


"The Orcish Horde is on the move again. After almost destroying all Night Elves and Theramore Humans, they new allmighty Horde sends its fleet to crush all human life on the Eastern Kingdom... Long war, yada yada.... Arthas dies.... It is finally proved to all fanbois on the General Forum that the Burning Legion is NOT smaller than the Scourge. The small hope of peace between the Horde and the Alliance is broken....


Okay, this is the heart of the new game... Just gotta add a little more deep into it, and then it will be ready to crashland into every little fanbois home!

Hakkar the Houndmaster was a elite soldier for the Burning Legion in the War of the Ancients...
I think.
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2006, 10:27 AM
Kaziel Kaziel is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kerrah
Whatever went wrong with him?
In the War of the Ancients Trilogy, started prior to the release of WoW, a demon named Hakkar the Houndmaster was shown. Shortly thereafter, Hakkar the Soulflayer showed up, and there was a lot of confusion over whether they were the same being, or if they were two separate entities. At BlizzCon Metzen said "My bad!" and admitted that Hakkar the Houndmaster came first, and Metzen made a mistake with the name.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:28 AM
KardenTheHunter KardenTheHunter is offline

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IMO, some peoples on here, (not naming names), are far to harsh with Metzen. The man's only human. He makes mistakes. Whats cooler about the dude is he's man enough to admit them and has admitted about being crushed that he made such a stupid mistake. How many other people can say they'd do the same? Or better yet, how many could say they'd even acknowledge they messed up? Not many. Metzen is one of the few, and it's obvious he was uber hyped up on showing off his new Draeni package to the world. So lay off him a little bit and give the man his due. We all love the lore, thats why we come here. And it's alright if we make mistakes about it. We're only human. Metzen included.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaziel
In the War of the Ancients Trilogy, started prior to the release of WoW, a demon named Hakkar the Houndmaster was shown. Shortly thereafter, Hakkar the Soulflayer showed up, and there was a lot of confusion over whether they were the same being, or if they were two separate entities. At BlizzCon Metzen said "My bad!" and admitted that Hakkar the Houndmaster came first, and Metzen made a mistake with the name.
That shit was minor, not a big deal at all.
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KardenTheHunter
IMO, some peoples on here, (not naming names), are far to harsh with Metzen. The man's only human. He makes mistakes. Whats cooler about the dude is he's man enough to admit them and has admitted about being crushed that he made such a stupid mistake. How many other people can say they'd do the same? Or better yet, how many could say they'd even acknowledge they messed up? Not many. Metzen is one of the few, and it's obvious he was uber hyped up on showing off his new Draeni package to the world. So lay off him a little bit and give the man his due. We all love the lore, thats why we come here. And it's alright if we make mistakes about it. We're only human. Metzen included.
He is?! I thought he was an alien-cyborg!
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Old 05-15-2006, 10:40 AM
Kaziel Kaziel is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicious
That shit was minor, not a big deal at all.
I agree. My point was that he's admitted to being wrong before. While this is important news, it's not the first time. ^^
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:01 AM
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Yeah, I am actually a little glad he did not take the story back in a way. Honestly, I think it's a great story. It contradicted earlier stories, but on its own it was an interesting one. As long as they fix the Sargeras thing it should be fine. And as I said in another post, thank god it's not *really* a spaceship. That honestly bothered me more than this thing did. Floating castles I can totally buy. As Chris puts it, "Millennium Falcon[s] cruising around the Twisting Nether" I cannot
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:03 AM
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But still, I wanted Laser Guns, I mean, who doesnt want the feared "Laser Gun of Han Solo"? ;P
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:04 AM
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I can respect a man who accepts responsibility for his mistakes. This particular failure does not override all his earlier accomplishments, but it does mar them.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:10 AM
ScytheRexx ScytheRexx is offline

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I always have respected Chris Metzen, not only for his great story, but also his honesty, and seeing him come and casually tell us that he "screwed up" really makes me feel a lot better about what happened.

Chris Metzen is human, he makes mistakes, and sometimes those mistakes happen because he is passionate about the direction he is taking something else, without realizing that direction goes in the opposite direction of something else he wrote.

I can't wait to read the new novel coming out, and I hope to hear more about Sargeras and the corruption, in whatever form it takes.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:41 AM
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What a great day: Metzen confesses he screwed up, he clarifies most of the recent holes in the lore, we find out about a cool new Warcraft pocketbook and I discover I'm not the only Warcraft fan in Portugal

I'm eager to know what race will now be the cause of Sargeras' corruption. It will indeed have to be more powerful than evil than the eredar to make me satisfied.
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Old 05-15-2006, 11:45 AM
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Aslong as it isnt Old Gods, I am happy.
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