Scrolls of Lore Forums  

Go Back   Scrolls of Lore Forums > WarCraft Discussion > WarCraft Lore Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 07-28-2016, 12:18 PM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

Eternal
Ratatosk's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: The Lost Woods
Posts: 3,575

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
What intrigued me was something the nathrezim said: that Medivh was corrupted by the fel. That's what they're going with in the movie verse, but everyone knows it was Sargeras in the MU.

What I mean to say is, does the Legion know the original plot of Sargeras and his time in Azeroth? Is his spirit, essence or whatever in contact with his forces or is everyone following Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde and those two just say that their master is absent?
I don't see the issue here. Sargeras was fel, so being corrupted by Sargeras is being corrupted by fel.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 07-28-2016, 12:21 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

Elune
Arakiba's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,415

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
I kinda have to wonder if the point of it was to dispel doubts about Khadgar's role going forward. From basically torturing AU Garona in his initial efforts to break her curse, to Gul'dan's early mention of their "shared history" despite them never really directly interacting in the MU, some of his story and behavior in WoD was seen as "off" by players, causing parts of the fandom to go into Legion thinking he's not really who he appears to be.

At the very least, this video basically sank the lion's share of those theories, as with most of them it wouldn't really make sense for a dreadlord to appear to him as Medivh.
That's how it felt to me. I admit a part of me had still been holding some doubts about him, but not anymore. That said, it does still make me think he could, if given the right push, fall.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 07-28-2016, 12:23 PM
Yorenec Yorenec is offline

Arch-Druid
Yorenec's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 1,204
BattleTag: Stncold#1786

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratatosk View Post
I don't see the issue here. Sargeras was fel, so being corrupted by Sargeras is being corrupted by fel.
This is a good point, but also need to take into account the keyword there was dreadlord. As is in everything it says should be taken with a grain of salt.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 07-28-2016, 12:42 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

Elune
Gurzog's Avatar
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 13,644
BattleTag: Hulk#2393

Default

Blizzard doesnt know their fucking lore anymore.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:07 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,241

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
What I mean to say is, does the Legion know the original plot of Sargeras and his time in Azeroth? Is his spirit, essence or whatever in contact with his forces or is everyone following Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde and those two just say that their master is absent?
He seemingly was while he possessed Medivh; In RotH, Mannoroth came to Kil'jaeden as he watched the fall of Shattrath and told him that Archimonde and Sargeras were both calling for him.

After which Kil'jaeden admits that his master was being patient in allowing him to indulge in orchestrating the destruction of the draenei.

The timing of "Medivh" appearing to Gul'dan immediately after Kil'jaeden stopped answering his summons was also suspiciously convenient, implying that Kil'jaeden had basically "passed the ball" to Sargeras once he was done using the orcs to crush the draenei.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 07-28-2016, 01:25 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

Arch-Druid
Ol'Yoggy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,382

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
He seemingly was while he possessed Medivh; In RotH, Mannoroth came to Kil'jaeden as he watched the fall of Shattrath and told him that Archimonde and Sargeras were both calling for him.

After which Kil'jaeden admits that his master was being patient in allowing him to indulge in orchestrating the destruction of the draenei.

The timing of "Medivh" appearing to Gul'dan immediately after Kil'jaeden stopped answering his summons was also suspiciously convenient, implying that Kil'jaeden had basically "passed the ball" to Sargeras once he was done using the orcs to crush the draenei.
That was outright implied. Sargeras corrupted Medivh, and was banished from Medivh's soul after Medivh died. I wonder if the original plan was to create the portal from the broken shore....but than when sargeras was banished they improvised and just decided to summon as many demons as Archimonde could bring in. Effective, but not as effective as it could have been.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 07-28-2016, 02:04 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

Elune
Noitora's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 34,261
BattleTag: Chillman#1339

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
What intrigued me was something the nathrezim said: that Medivh was corrupted by the fel. That's what they're going with in the movie verse, but everyone knows it was Sargeras in the MU.

What I mean to say is, does the Legion know the original plot of Sargeras and his time in Azeroth? Is his spirit, essence or whatever in contact with his forces or is everyone following Kil'Jaeden and Archimonde and those two just say that their master is absent?
We know they're not the same thing, but that seems to be splitting hairs.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegrune View Post
I looked into Blizzard's heart and saw only retcons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
The continuing existence of Five Night's at Freddies is proof that there is no God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 07-28-2016, 03:04 PM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

Arch-Druid
Vineyard's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,999

Default

Me'dan basicly immediatly got the Poochie the Dog treatment, because the reaction to him was negative.

It's still however funny, that the "Action Figure" characters from the comic are still around and canon, specially Meryl.

Chronicle Vol. 2 really needs to happen next year.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 07-28-2016, 06:52 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


Omacron's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 34,279
BattleTag: Omacron#1477

Default

I've always wanted to retool Med'an as a depressed alcoholic who had big destiny thrust upon him but crumbled under the pressure, and he just spends his days jerking off in a shitty studio apartment while reading Steamy Romance Novels.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 07-29-2016, 05:43 AM
Warlock Warlock is offline

Keeper of Lore
Warlock's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,491
BattleTag: Warlock#1498

Default

What? Guardian? Pfft, there hasn't been a Guardian since Medivh! What other guy? You must be dreaming, I'm sure we would remember that... it's not like Khadgar himself was involved with making someone else a Guardian......

(I'm seriously laughing so hard at how fast they dropped Med'an like a friggin' rock)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 07-29-2016, 07:01 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Marthen's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Far, far away...
Posts: 4,526

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vineyard View Post
Chronicle Vol. 2 really needs to happen next year.
It will, in March.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
What? Guardian? Pfft, there hasn't been a Guardian since Medivh! What other guy? You must be dreaming, I'm sure we would remember that... it's not like Khadgar himself was involved with making someone else a Guardian......

(I'm seriously laughing so hard at how fast they dropped Med'an like a friggin' rock)
You know, technically, Blizzard could simply say he was not a "true" Guardian, and it would not even be a retcon, since as per the comic, he was not really one. He was something similar, but not really a classic Guardian of Tirisfal.

Last edited by Marthen; 07-29-2016 at 08:44 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 07-29-2016, 07:10 AM
Lon-ami Lon-ami is offline

Elune
Lon-ami's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Spain
Posts: 12,458
BattleTag: Lonami#2916

Default

So Med'an is pretty much not canon now, I guess.

Also, where the hell is Medivh? He was alive in W3 and then he left and we've never seen him again.
__________________


Metzen: They are one of the ancient races of Northrend that we haven't spoken of before... because we hadn't made them up before. (laughter)

~Main: Expansion theorycrafting, Expansions list, The Age of Nightmare, Empire of the Tides (coming soon)~
~Fan ficton: Anachronos Journey: The Timeless Heir~ ~Geography of continents series: Old Kalimdor (original), Pandaria~
~Locations as zones series: Azjol-Nerub, Barrow Deeps, Zul'Aman, Demon Hunter zone, Caverns of Time~
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 07-29-2016, 08:33 AM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

Loremaster
ARM3481's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,241

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
You know, technically, Blizzard could simply say he was not a "true" Guardian and it would not even be a retcon, since as per the comic, he was not really one. He was something similar, but not really a classic Guardian of Tirisfal.
Ironically, he really functioned more like a "classic" Guardian than either Medivh or Aegwynn (or as it's being implied, what Khadgar would be if he sought it), since he actually returned the Council's power to its owners when he was done using it.

Kind of strange thinking back...the original Order of Tirisfal was in effect doing what Illidan did at Black Rook Hold, except doing it the right way so that the ones lending their power didn't have to die in order to supercharge their champion.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 07-29-2016, 08:59 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

Eternal
Marthen's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Far, far away...
Posts: 4,526

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Ironically, he really functioned more like a "classic" Guardian than either Medivh or Aegwynn (or as it's being implied, what Khadgar would be if he sought it), since he actually returned the Council's power to its owners when he was done using it.
I was talking more about the powers his "council" wieldied, and that he therefore had at his disposal.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 07-29-2016, 09:34 AM
Ratatosk Ratatosk is offline

Eternal
Ratatosk's Avatar
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: The Lost Woods
Posts: 3,575

Default

Yeah only one person on Med'an's council was actually a mage. Not to mention he fought the forces of the Old Gods instead of the Legion.

He really wasn't like the Guardian at all when you think about it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:19 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

Arch-Druid
Kiraser's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Saint Petersburg
Posts: 1,205

Default

I've finally found the real version of this video.

__________________
тче баттле бегонс...
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 07-29-2016, 01:41 PM
Mordecay Mordecay is offline

Keeper of the Grove
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 663

Default

So even echoes (Echo of Medivh) can be taken as a disguise?
I mean dreadlords need the actual person when taking disguise no? Saidan comes to mind and also Mathias Shaw is kidnapped when Detheroc takes his disguise.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:04 PM
Fraznak Fraznak is offline

Priestess of the Moon
Fraznak's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 532

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordecay View Post
So even echoes (Echo of Medivh) can be taken as a disguise?
I mean dreadlords need the actual person when taking disguise no? Saidan comes to mind and also Mathias Shaw is kidnapped when Detheroc takes his disguise.
It's may be just some kind of illusion, since he a "spirit bound to the tower".
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 07-29-2016, 02:27 PM
Azurehax Azurehax is offline

Arch-Druid
Azurehax's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,346

Default

I noticed a subtle but really nice touch, when Khadgar is about to launch a bunch of probably more ''personal'' questions at Medivh, he immidiately cuts him off and deflects the conversation by pushing him into why he comes here, obviously knowing he was looking for knowledge about power.

Playing the biggest card of the Dreadlords, cunning (deceit).
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 07-29-2016, 10:03 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

Eternal
MisterCrow's Avatar
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 4,410

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlock View Post
What? Guardian? Pfft, there hasn't been a Guardian since Medivh! What other guy? You must be dreaming, I'm sure we would remember that... it's not like Khadgar himself was involved with making someone else a Guardian......

(I'm seriously laughing so hard at how fast they dropped Med'an like a friggin' rock)
I wouldn't necessarily call it "fast". The fate of Med'an has basically been a dangling thread for six years now. I just feel like there must have been a lot of internal debate about how to actually make him make sense.

(also is it a good time for me to trot out this post)

All that being said, it really doesn't surprise me that they don't address anything about Med'an or why Khadgar has A'tiesh: it doesn't really serve the narrative that this video is meant to deliver. This short only has a few minutes to sell Khadgar's earnest desperation to find a solution to the Legion problem, and that desperation is juxtaposed against "Medivh" offering him that solution. It really isn't the job of ANVIL to explain Med'an when he's not relevant to the Legion narrative; the right place to do that is Chronicle, and that means we'll get the answer in March.

*crow goes back to the WoW comic to try and suss out a way to rectify Khadgar's statements in Harbinger vs. what was said in the comic*

no I can't do this my brain is melting for how awful EVERYTHING is in this comic fuck WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
__________________
Now contributing to BlizzPro.

Lore Observation, Systems Design, and other science dropped at Power Word: Remix


Expect nothing and anything will surprise you.
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 07-30-2016, 01:23 AM
Shinjiro Aragaki Shinjiro Aragaki is offline

Hippogryph Rider
Shinjiro Aragaki's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Ambrose Asylum
Posts: 218

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mordecay View Post
So even echoes (Echo of Medivh) can be taken as a disguise?
I mean dreadlords need the actual person when taking disguise no? Saidan comes to mind and also Mathias Shaw is kidnapped when Detheroc takes his disguise.
It's easier to take the role of a person when such person is either dead or kindnapped. So they won't appear in the middle of your act.
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 07-30-2016, 02:01 AM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

Arch-Druid
Ol'Yoggy's Avatar
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,382

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shinjiro Aragaki View Post
It's easier to take the role of a person when such person is either dead or kindnapped. So they won't appear in the middle of your act.
Medivh buggered off to wherever he went to after Reign ended
Reply With Quote
  #123  
Old 07-30-2016, 08:33 AM
Hagrid Hagrid is offline

Keeper of the Grove
Hagrid's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 670

Warlock

So, in keeping with the theme established in Lords of War, I am trying, in my head, to contextualize these videos. Lords saw Maraad teaching Varian about the various Warlords, whereas Burdens was just... There. Trying to ingratiate people into Pandaria, I suppose. These new videos seem to be filling in gaps between the present day and Legion's arrival.

That said, I have to wonder what brought on Gul'dan's monologue. We see Khadgar actively pursuing something, really, performing some work. Gul'dan, though, it's a reflection. He's looking back on something that's already happened - But why? Is this an internal thing, a kind of recall before he sets off on his life's journey? Perhaps he's telling this story to someone on the Broken Isles? But why? The whole thing invites speculation, and I can only guess that Gul'dan is maybe corresponding with Elisande or one of the Nightborne here. Food for thought.

Okay, that's it for my derailing. Back to looking at Khadgar and waiting for the oncoming cringe of Illidindu's video.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #124  
Old 07-30-2016, 11:57 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

Banished
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 9,773

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon-ami View Post
So Med'an is pretty much not canon now, I guess
MFW

Reply With Quote
  #125  
Old 07-30-2016, 12:14 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

Elune
ijffdrie's Avatar
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: A rock of certainty amid an ocean of possibility
Posts: 15,765

Default

Not just the existence of Medivh, but thankfully also the way the Guardian ritual works (since Khadgar says that none remain who can bestow him with the power of the guardian, despite the fact that the comic showed us that it was dead-easy and could be done by any group of spellcasters). However, that means that the legends comic The First Guardian (by the same writer as the comic) also no longer works.

Plus, Khadgar's reaction to Medivh's reappearance contradicts the idea of him being fully resurrected from Cycle of Blood. To be fair, he wasn't involved in that story, so he didn't learn of Medivh's resurrection. However, he's interacted with Jaina on occasion, and Jaina would have had all the reason in the world to tell him of that.



My completely non-scientific, inconsistent conclusion from this is that we now have three less guardians. Boo-yah.

(Though if we throw out the Med'an arc in its entirety, there's the issue of Aegwynn)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
warcraft, world of warcraft

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.