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  #7026  
Old 10-09-2018, 06:07 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Alpha Prime and his lot may qualify. I wouldn’t even give them a Night Elf form, or any humanoid form at all. They’re locked in Worgen Form, maybe a wolf travel form. That said, I have trouble seeing how these Worgen would look significantly different from Gilnear Worgen in anything but dress.

I still like the idea of Ghost Worgen: Frostwolf Orcs who deal with the Curse using their Shamanic bond with the Spirit of the Wolf. Visually they’d be easier to distinguish with their Ghost Wolf texture on the Worgen form. They don’t fit your profile though.
Well there's that, but I also like the thought of the Horde getting some other kind of werecreature like Gurubashi trolls that can transform into weretigers or San'layn that have learned how to transform into werebats since I do agree that it's hard to really make a Horde Worgen allied race distinguishable from the regular Alliance Worgen.
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  #7027  
Old 10-10-2018, 04:44 AM
Krainz Krainz is online now

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  #7028  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:24 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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I'm impressed with the direction Blizzard is taking SI:7 in. If the Saurfang spoilers are true.
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  #7029  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:27 AM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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Blood Elf Heritage Armor Questline
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  #7030  
Old 10-10-2018, 04:24 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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The Arthas and Kael'thas models need upgrading.
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  #7031  
Old 10-10-2018, 06:41 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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I dunno why the alliance has to help the horde deal with its own bullshit; especially given Saurfang was perfectly fine and happy with helping Sylvanas start a war for no reason other than "glory and honor" but only got mad when instead of invading Darnassus and killing everyone with axes they burnt down darnassus and killed them that way.

secondly I love how the Horde fan base is crying how Saurfang is somehow an alliance plant; I don't see how SI:7 believing he would cause a schism in the Horde ranks that the Alliance could exploit and subtly assisting him in escaping makes him a "plant" or a "tool" of the Alliance.
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #7032  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:53 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
I dunno why the alliance has to help the horde deal with its own bullshit; especially given Saurfang was perfectly fine and happy with helping Sylvanas start a war for no reason other than "glory and honor" but only got mad when instead of invading Darnassus and killing everyone with axes they burnt down darnassus and killed them that way.

secondly I love how the Horde fan base is crying how Saurfang is somehow an alliance plant; I don't see how SI:7 believing he would cause a schism in the Horde ranks that the Alliance could exploit and subtly assisting him in escaping makes him a "plant" or a "tool" of the Alliance.
Arguably that's always been one of the underlying problems of the faction war. If the Alliance wins, everyone - including the Horde - benefits because it's fighting to put an end to the fighting.

If the Horde wins, it's bad for everyone - including the Horde - because rather than an end to war, it tends to treat the prospect of victory as a springboard for kicking off some more wars.

That said...no, he wasn't all for killing everyone. The theory behind the original invasion was that by not wiping out Darnassus, they could keep things limited and regional to the Horde vs. the Night Elves, with Anduin hesitating to commit to full-on war when the attack stopped short of actually targeting the civilian population center.

As soon as the Horde showed an intent to exterminate the populace, that basically forced the entire Alliance to respond as if to a Scourge-level threat. Hence his "They will come for us now. All of them!" in Old Soldier. The original plan would have theoretically had Darnassus' population cut off from the mainland, but kept alive in order to keep things contextualized as a territorial grab, to which the rest of the Alliance would be less likely to jointly declare open war against the entire Horde on all fronts across Azeroth. After all, a Horde-controlled Darkshore isn't a direct and immediate threat to the rest of the Alliance nations, and once it became clear that they weren't intending to eliminate Darnassus, Anduin might hesitate to turn a regional conflict into a global war.

By just taking the mainland, the response was more likely to be measured and restrained, as the Horde (orcs especially) have already been grabbing chunks of night elf land in Kalimdor on-and-off for years. By wiping out a capital city, every Alliance member's immediate thought became "Well, they've set the bar. This isn't just about taking more land, this is Sylvanas out to eradicate the living. We have to commit fully to war because if we don't, Stormwind, Ironforge or the Exodar will be next."

And they're not wrong. Sylvanas wants Stormwind especially so she can raise all those humans as new Forsaken. In a way, by killing the inhabitants of Darnassus she basically announced to the Alliance that this isn't a territorial Horde war. In so doing she made it clear that this is her war, for her reasons. The sort of Scourge 2.0 reasons that won't stop short of everyone being either dead and gone or undead as her slaves.

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  #7033  
Old 10-10-2018, 09:21 PM
Rhllor Rhllor is offline

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I think they should use the instanced zone of 3.3.3 for the isle of queldanas, it is weird to see the draenei and blood elf together at this time
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  #7034  
Old 10-10-2018, 11:54 PM
Aldrius Aldrius is offline

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So I'm basically coming out of hiding to be a feminist soldier and complain that ONCE AGAIN Blizzard's go-to for developing their underutilized female character basically involves torture porning her into being a cold-hearted seeker of vengeance after horrible things happen to her people.

Again. It's almost exactly the same plot as Jaina's in Mists. Beat for beat. She even has the weird-ass visual change to show how she's become "damaged".

It's... really infuriating. Because there's honestly more than enough meat to a Maive-Shandris-Malfurion-Tyrande team up to take on the Forsaken in Darkshore WITHOUT all this Night Warrior nonsense. Like the whole story literally works without the parts about the Night Warrior and they'd have more time to actually develop some stuff between Maiev, Shandris and Tyrande.

I mean the stuff with Maiev and Shandris is actually really great. Why can't we get more of that, just... including Tyrande and Furion?
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  #7035  
Old 10-11-2018, 12:23 AM
Vineyard Vineyard is offline

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https://de.wowhead.com/news=287811/t...e-8-1-spoilers

Yep, it is heavily implied, that Shaw and SI:7 had their hands in Saurfang's escape.

And this....

"Dark Ranger Lyana says: And worse, after you abandoned your people, you conspired with humans against your warchief."

... implies that Saurfang was in on this.

(And let's face it, he isn't an idiot and would have quickly deduced himself that they let him escape.)
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  #7036  
Old 10-11-2018, 07:02 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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So, 8.2 has stories for Tyrande, Vol'jin and Saurfang.

When that was announced, I expected Tyrande's to be Alliance-only, Vol'jin's to be Horde-only, and Saurfang's to have versions for both factions.

But instead, it appears Tyrande's just the intro to the Darkshore Battlefront, so it has two versions (and the Alliance version seems disappointing so far), while Vol'jin's and Saurfang's seem to be both Horde-only.

Not to be the one to call it Horde bias, but... I am feeling a lack of Alliance story content in this.
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  #7037  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:32 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
So, 8.2 has stories for Tyrande, Vol'jin and Saurfang.

When that was announced, I expected Tyrande's to be Alliance-only, Vol'jin's to be Horde-only, and Saurfang's to have versions for both factions.

But instead, it appears Tyrande's just the intro to the Darkshore Battlefront, so it has two versions (and the Alliance version seems disappointing so far), while Vol'jin's and Saurfang's seem to be both Horde-only.

Not to be the one to call it Horde bias, but... I am feeling a lack of Alliance story content in this.
I think the Vol'jin one doesn't entirely count as it seems to just be delayed launch content for the most part. Jaina had a huge, in-depth questline at max level on launch taking you through every zone in Kul Tiras, four dungeons, and had two cinematics. Meanwhile the launch Vol'jin questline is really short in comparison, and this is just the second half of what should have been there.
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  #7038  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:53 AM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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man I love how the WoW subreddit is deleting any post accusing Steve Danuser of self-inserting himself as Nathanos as "witch hunting" yet everyone can talk about how Ion Hazzicostas is literally Hitler to their hearts content
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #7039  
Old 10-11-2018, 02:37 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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How Blizzard writes Tyrande:
>"Teldrassil burned because I decided to spare a Horde commander. No more mercy..."
>"I have frozen a camp full of Forsaken armies, including their Deathstalker Commander! They are at my mercy!"
>"I decide to let them all stay frozen forever to think about what they did instead of killing them outright. After all there's absolutely no way the rest of the Forsaken can break them out, right?"

And with that 8.1 is pretty much dead to me and I've stopped giving a fuck again. Just wondering what 8.2 and 8.3 will entail now.
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  #7040  
Old 10-11-2018, 04:44 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I think the Vol'jin one doesn't entirely count as it seems to just be delayed launch content for the most part. Jaina had a huge, in-depth questline at max level on launch taking you through every zone in Kul Tiras, four dungeons, and had two cinematics. Meanwhile the launch Vol'jin questline is really short in comparison, and this is just the second half of what should have been there.
I see Talanji as Jaina's counterpart, thought, And the Horde also got two cinematics.

It may not be the as personal and emotional as Jaina's story, but they are meant to be different.

Also, while Alliance content had a lot more connection with the dungeons, it was the Horde storyline that led to Uldir and G'huun.
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  #7041  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:20 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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You know, thinking about it more, my biggest issue with Tyrande just not flat out killing Belmont is that freezing him and leaving him there to rot is no different than basically throwing him in a padded cell.

And that's not vengeance. That's justice. It's certainly not that far from how Saurfang is being treated right now.

Vengeance is saying "fuck you" to the justice system and taking the law into your own hands. Vengeance is knowing the villain won't learn from the evil crimes he's committed on you and that the best decision is to purge him from existence then and there. Vengeance is pure eye for an eye and reprisal for a previous wrong committed. Leaving Belmont there in an "I must scream" situation is simply unconvincing as a suitable punishment, and will make Tyrande look incompetent once again if he's free and lives up to his "Blight the land" mantra he was spitting about throughout the Darkshore quest-line. The only legitimate act of reprisal to a group complicit in the deaths of countless innocents and children is to wholesale slaughter them all.

The devs played up this idea of a vengeance-minded aspect of the Alliance and then subsequently failed to deliver it. It becomes increasingly clear to me that while Blizzard writers might be a gaggle of comic book geeks, they have never once read a single issue of The Punisher to understand what vengeance actually means and are just throwing the word around because they think that's enough to make an Alliance character sound dark and edgy.
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  #7042  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:22 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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hey everybody lets test a theory someone stab someone else and use necromancy to bring them back to life to see if they will be loyal to you even though you killed them

i swear blizzard's writing has gone from respectable to sixth grade fan fiction wrote after school. all of the bullshit Metzen wrote at least made some sense even if it was horribly biased
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Fuck your dumb gamergate shit I'd rather be pegged by Sylvanas than read it.
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Just remember, the Alliance is only ever allowed to passively defend itself against the Horde, and Taurajo was Azeroth's equivalent of the Holocaust.
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  #7043  
Old 10-12-2018, 01:52 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
hey everybody lets test a theory someone stab someone else and use necromancy to bring them back to life to see if they will be loyal to you even though you killed them

i swear blizzard's writing has gone from respectable to sixth grade fan fiction wrote after school. all of the bullshit Metzen wrote at least made some sense even if it was horribly biased
I've long had a theory that the void lords are actually influence everyone to a larger degree then we thought. Every stupid decision, every completely out-of-character moment, was by the character being subtlety pushed that way by the void lords to increase the maximum amount of strife so they can be released or something.

Of course, this is just me trying to justify the horrible in-game writing in-universe.
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  #7044  
Old 10-12-2018, 08:23 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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It's hilarious how there's still people that think Sylvanas enslaving Eyir should have happened and that it would be for the greater good, when just being elevated to Warchief had her burning countless innocents and children alive. Yeah, let's give her more power, she'll totally use it for altruistic reasons and not for selfish political gain and wholesale extinction of other races.
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  #7045  
Old 10-13-2018, 01:36 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
It's hilarious how there's still people that think Sylvanas enslaving Eyir should have happened and that it would be for the greater good, when just being elevated to Warchief had her burning countless innocents and children alive. Yeah, let's give her more power, she'll totally use it for altruistic reasons and not for selfish political gain and wholesale extinction of other races.
That people seem to give Sylvanas any stretch of Credibility is honstly kind of disheartening.

Right up there with Nathanos being suddenly everywhere because he;s a Narrative Designer's Self Insert.

We gave Metzen so much flak for Thrall but at least Thrall was a decent person and not Sylvanas's Booty call.
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  #7046  
Old 10-13-2018, 04:12 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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That people seem to give Sylvanas any stretch of Credibility is honstly kind of disheartening.

Right up there with Nathanos being suddenly everywhere because he;s a Narrative Designer's Self Insert.

We gave Metzen so much flak for Thrall but at least Thrall was a decent person and not Sylvanas's Booty call.
Same people that think killing countless children via burning, one of the most horrible ways for a person to die, is a justifiable act to commit because "b-but the tree is corrupt!"
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  #7047  
Old 10-13-2018, 04:38 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Same people that think killing countless children via burning, one of the most horrible ways for a person to die, is a justifiable act to commit because "b-but the tree is corrupt!"
That's just because half the people on the internet think they're enlightened moral relativist edgelords who can cleverly justify anything being done to anyone for any reason.

Plus half the Forsaken posters out there (and for some reason, an awful lot of blood elf and Nightborne) can't seem to refrain from basically roleplaying every time they enter a discussion pertaining to the faction war.
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  #7048  
Old 10-14-2018, 02:41 AM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
That people seem to give Sylvanas any stretch of Credibility is honstly kind of disheartening.

Right up there with Nathanos being suddenly everywhere because he;s a Narrative Designer's Self Insert.

We gave Metzen so much flak for Thrall but at least Thrall was a decent person and not Sylvanas's Booty call.
I wouldn't be talking about credibility if I took a toxic meme created by stitching a few unrelated images taken out of context together at face value, but hey, each to their own.

Still, it's just both so incredibly amusing and sad at the same that people still fall for this "Thrall was Metzen's self-insert" meme, even though we've known for years that Furion was Metzen's favorite Warcraft III character and that he 's always mained human paladins, and it's now even sadder since thanks John Staats' World of Warcraft Dev Diary, we know Metzen was one of the few Alliance favoring developers amongst the Classic World of Warcraft development team (who were all Horde favoring because they saw the Horde as the evil faction and evil is cooler). I suppose people can't live without scapegoatism.
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  #7049  
Old 10-14-2018, 06:33 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Plus half the Forsaken posters out there (and for some reason, an awful lot of blood elf and Nightborne) can't seem to refrain from basically roleplaying every time they enter a discussion pertaining to the faction war.
You forgot human paladins.
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  #7050  
Old 10-14-2018, 04:10 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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You forgot human paladins.
Oh, they exist too, but they seem mostly focused on trolling night elf players in their own faction rather than defending Sylvanas out of any earnest belief that she's actually virtuous and in the right. Their "arguments" seem to boil down to the night elves having it coming basically for being night elves, rather than it being particularly relevant that Sylvanas is the particular person who's burning their tree and ravaging their lands.

Rather notably with such human paladins especially, a disproportionate number of them seem to be level 1 profiles with especially nonsensical names, which frankly screams "this is really a Horde poster messing with people."

Unfortunately, in the current expansion's climate of partisan garbage, a lot of people overlook that simplest of unofficial forum guidelines that has existed from the very start: ignore inflammatory posts from the level 1 alts.
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