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  #51  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:14 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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We really don't know the timeline.
We don't know a lot of things.

Even the things we do know will be wrong eventually.

Such is how things are in World of Not-A-Warcraft!
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #52  
Old 12-18-2012, 06:21 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
"The engineering wizards in Everlook created this unique cub as a test model. Unfortunately a few went rogue and were never recovered."

The one found in Dun Morogh is a cat and was built by gnomes. There's no dwarven engineering pet to be found.
The Darkmoon Tonk may be dwarf work at least.
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  #53  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:05 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Dwarves are more specialised in weapons, siege-engines and fire-arms.
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  #54  
Old 12-19-2012, 03:05 AM
neoshadow neoshadow is offline

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Originally Posted by Jungleluke View Post
Dwarves are more specialised in weapons, siege-engines and fire-arms.
And ale!
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  #55  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:29 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Volkrin View Post
The Darkmoon Tonk may be dwarf work at least.
If it was dwarven craftsmanship it would look like a real steam tank. The tonk looks too silly.
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  #56  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:42 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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To those who have Twitter, can one of you ask about the canonicity of Forsaken quests in Ambermill and Dalaran Crater? With Dalaran on the move again, now would be the perfect time to clarify.
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  #57  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:48 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
To those who have Twitter, can one of you ask about the canonicity of Forsaken quests in Ambermill and Dalaran Crater? With Dalaran on the move again, now would be the perfect time to clarify.
Didn't Metzen already say that they are canon and that those mages are independent from Dalaran?
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  #58  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:55 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Didn't Metzen already say that they are canon and that those mages are independent from Dalaran?
You mean he already took back what he said to IGoD? When was this?
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  #59  
Old 12-19-2012, 06:54 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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And ale!
That was too obvious, that's why I didn't mention it!
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  #60  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:19 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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The only lore "mistake" about the Dalaran Mages was with the ones who are in the crater. The mages of Ambermill are, according to the Horde quest, members of the Alliance.

Quote:
The former Dalaran magi of Ambermill have erected a magical barrier that somehow cloaks them from vision. They currently reside within some type of pocket dimension, awaiting orders from the Alliance to begin their attack. We must prevent their assault by making a pre-emptive strike. Venture to Ambermill and find information that would grant us access to the mages.
Source: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=27474

But I'm not sure if Metzen said something about the ones in the crater, besides the private talk IGoD mentioned.
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  #61  
Old 12-19-2012, 10:04 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cemotucu View Post
The only lore "mistake" about the Dalaran Mages was with the ones who are in the crater. The mages of Ambermill are, according to the Horde quest, members of the Alliance.



Source: http://www.wowhead.com/quest=27474

But I'm not sure if Metzen said something about the ones in the crater, besides the private talk IGoD mentioned.
I know about the quest text. It's just that "Ambermill quests are no longer canon" gets thrown around at the story forums whenever it is brought up back then. I just feel that this needs to be clarified. If Metzen were to pretend that his conversation with IGoD never happened, it could damage IGoD's forum cred a little.
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  #62  
Old 12-19-2012, 10:24 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
I know about the quest text. It's just that "Ambermill quests are no longer canon" gets thrown around at the story forums whenever it is brought up back then. I just feel that this needs to be clarified. If Metzen were to pretend that his conversation with IGoD never happened, it could damage IGoD's forum cred a little.
Well... When IGoD spoke to him, I understood he didn't explain Metzen that the mages of Ambermill had changed their faction according to the quest. Given that, I apply Metzen statement of "lol non-canon" only to the quest of the crater.
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  #63  
Old 12-19-2012, 11:10 AM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Insane Guy of Doom said:

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I would like to say this:

OHMYGOSHOHMYGOSHOHMYGOSH!

I went to the charity dinner, and it didn't begin too well. I was really scarred of being alone with a ton strangers, I was very nervous, sweating with anxiety even, just wandering around aimlessly. Then...

A guy walked up and he looked familiar but I thought it couldn't be, then he said "Hi, I'm Chris Metzen."

We talked a lot about the lore and writing, it was AWESOME, I also got to ask him a few questions and he gave me a few interesting spoilers, one of which has to do with either the next expansion or even the one after, but I asked if he wanted me to keep said spoilers to myself and Metzen said he would appreciate that.

I can say though, he said some of the Silverpine Forest quests are non-cannon, specifically the ones dealing with Ambermill. Apparently the guy in charge of writing the Silverpine quests didn't know the Kirin Tor was neutral so he said "Kirin Tor is definitely neutral, what's going on in Silverpine is a big snafu on the developer's part".

and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
You don't fight Kirin Tor in Hillsbrad. The Dalaran Crater quests are considered part of Silverpine Forest's quests by the game. This is our conversation paraphrased (trying to remember it as best I can).

Are the Kirin Tor still neutral? The horde fights them in Silverpine and it says they're Kirin Tor and that they're part of the alliance. Also Wolfheart mentions the alliance thinking their still part of the alliance but then they say their neutral.

Really, because they're neutral.

Yeah, in Ambermill and Dalaran Crater you get sent to kill them.

Are they old quests left over from vanilla maybe?

No, they involve dimension pockets and the Val'kyr.

It sounds like the guy in charge just changed around the vanilla quests without checking to make sure the Kirin Tor was still alliance or not. Its a big snafu on our part.

So were they rogue Kirin Tor or something?

No, the Kirin Tor are neutral, the forsaken fighting them is a mistake.

Thanks, between the forsaken quests and Wolfheart mentioning the alliance being unsure whether their neutral or not I thought maybe they went back to the alliance after the Nexus War.

The conversation then turned to some spoilers so I can't say anymore.
The Ambermill quests are actually fine, as those were Alliance mages. The Dalaran Crater quests were not, as the Forsaken callously attacked a neutral faction with no reasons or repercussions.
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  #64  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:08 PM
Ardeiute Ardeiute is offline

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With the topic having been on the Kirin Tor, I wonder if the spoilers he was told were involving Jaina and what we are currently going through. C/D IGoD?
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  #65  
Old 12-19-2012, 04:11 PM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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With the topic having been on the Kirin Tor, I wonder if the spoilers he was told were involving Jaina and what we are currently going through. C/D IGoD?
Unlikely.
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  #66  
Old 12-19-2012, 05:35 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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With the topic having been on the Kirin Tor, I wonder if the spoilers he was told were involving Jaina and what we are currently going through. C/D IGoD?
Nope. I think its safe to say now:

Metzen told me that he ultimately planned for the Kirin Tor to become "Warcraft's version of the X-Files, investigating magical mysteries. They would be a new faction you gain rep with, like the Violet Eye". Aside from the faction part, they seem to have taken up this role in Tides of War. He said nothing about the Kirin Tor ever being Alliance-sided again, and as I mentioned was surprised that the Horde fights them in Silverpine Forest.

Thus, I'm guessing the Jaina incident is a new development, like how they backtracked on saying Thrall would definitely be Warchief again. Whether that means the Kirin Tor is destined to go neutral again, or Metzen's "new rep faction" has been scrapped remains to be seen.

Quote:
The Ambermill quests are actually fine, as those were Alliance mages. The Dalaran Crater quests were not, as the Forsaken callously attacked a neutral faction with no reasons or repercussions.
The npcs there wear Kirin Tor tabards and have Dalaran banners at the teleport location.
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  #67  
Old 12-19-2012, 07:35 PM
Revenant Revenant is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The npcs there wear Kirin Tor tabards and have Dalaran banners at the teleport location.
Understandable. The quest still says they are Alliance. I don't think it was changed.
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

Years.
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  #68  
Old 12-19-2012, 07:44 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
Understandable. The quest still says they are Alliance. I don't think it was changed.
This is why we need clarification. They can also just bring it up subtly. If they ever make a patch involving the EK in MoP, they could have Dalaran finally land in EK, warring with the Forsaken. The Ambermill magi then join either the Alliance or Horde depending on whether the quest team decided to keep the Ambermill quests canon or not.
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  #69  
Old 12-19-2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
This is why we need clarification. They can also just bring it up subtly. If they ever make a patch involving the EK in MoP, they could have Dalaran finally land in EK, warring with the Forsaken. The Ambermill magi then join either the Alliance or Horde depending on whether the quest team decided to keep the Ambermill quests canon or not.
...what?
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It'd be nice if they actually finally gave us things they cut or under utilized 10 years ago.
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Ten.

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  #70  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:01 PM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Originally Posted by Revenant View Post
...what?
IF they ever make a Dalaran vs. Forsaken battle in EK within any upcoming patch of MoP, they could go through with these scenarios:

Ambermill magi join Forsaken implying that the quests in Ambermill during Cataclysm were indeed canon.

or

Ambermill magi are still human and join Dalaran implying that the quests in Ambermill during Cataclysm were indeed decanonized by Metzen.
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  #71  
Old 12-19-2012, 09:32 PM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ujimasa Hojo View Post
IF they ever make a Dalaran vs. Forsaken battle in EK within any upcoming patch of MoP, they could go through with these scenarios:

Ambermill magi join Forsaken implying that the quests in Ambermill during Cataclysm were indeed canon.

or

Ambermill magi are still human and join Dalaran implying that the quests in Ambermill during Cataclysm were indeed decanonized by Metzen.
Ambermill quests do not need to be de-cannonized, there is no confusion there, the quest text is absolutely clear that we are dealing with wizards who have defected to the Alliance, their leader even nerdgasms about Lordaeron half the time.

It is the quests around Dalaran crater, which is not in Silverpine but in Hillsbrad that are questionable. Here we are sent by former Dalarani archmage Dalar Dawnweaver to retrieve a dimensional key (to enter the Ambermill pocket dimension) and also to kill random mages because Dalar hates them for some reason.
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  #72  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:12 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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It's amazing to me that the Frostwolf Clan managed an exodus from continental Azeroth to the Alterac Valley (passing through Khaz Modan and Arathi along the way) before the First War was over, without being seen by any dwarves or humans.

It's equally amazing to me that the bulk of the Second War was fought in that part of the world, without the Frostwolves being seen or involved. This includes Thoras Trollbane leading a Stromgarde army through all of the Alterac Mountain passes and killing any orcs he found. Without noticing the Frostwolves hiding out in that one valley.


Does lore ever specify how the Frostwolves managed to stay hidden for so long? Anything about a shamanistic artifact or spell?
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  #73  
Old 12-20-2012, 07:40 AM
Jungleluke Jungleluke is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
It's amazing to me that the Frostwolf Clan managed an exodus from continental Azeroth to the Alterac Valley (passing through Khaz Modan and Arathi along the way) before the First War was over, without being seen by any dwarves or humans.

It's equally amazing to me that the bulk of the Second War was fought in that part of the world, without the Frostwolves being seen or involved. This includes Thoras Trollbane leading a Stromgarde army through all of the Alterac Mountain passes and killing any orcs he found. Without noticing the Frostwolves hiding out in that one valley.


Does lore ever specify how the Frostwolves managed to stay hidden for so long? Anything about a shamanistic artifact or spell?
I wonder this too.
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  #74  
Old 12-20-2012, 08:07 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
It's amazing to me that the Frostwolf Clan managed an exodus from continental Azeroth to the Alterac Valley (passing through Khaz Modan and Arathi along the way) before the First War was over, without being seen by any dwarves or humans.

It's equally amazing to me that the bulk of the Second War was fought in that part of the world, without the Frostwolves being seen or involved. This includes Thoras Trollbane leading a Stromgarde army through all of the Alterac Mountain passes and killing any orcs he found. Without noticing the Frostwolves hiding out in that one valley.


Does lore ever specify how the Frostwolves managed to stay hidden for so long? Anything about a shamanistic artifact or spell?
Frostwolf shaman could have conjured blizzards to hide themselves.
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  #75  
Old 12-20-2012, 08:59 AM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
It's amazing to me that the Frostwolf Clan managed an exodus from continental Azeroth to the Alterac Valley (passing through Khaz Modan and Arathi along the way) before the First War was over, without being seen by any dwarves or humans.

It's equally amazing to me that the bulk of the Second War was fought in that part of the world, without the Frostwolves being seen or involved. This includes Thoras Trollbane leading a Stromgarde army through all of the Alterac Mountain passes and killing any orcs he found. Without noticing the Frostwolves hiding out in that one valley.


Does lore ever specify how the Frostwolves managed to stay hidden for so long? Anything about a shamanistic artifact or spell?


----

No, Lore is not clear about this. Just... they went emo and remained hidden.
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