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  #226  
Old 07-30-2013, 10:19 PM
Korath Korath is offline

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There'll come a point when they'll just quit giving us stories...

@Fojar: Considering that the tauren, goblins and orcs' reasons for rebelling haven't been represented as much as those of the elves and trolls, I really don't see how doing this via free stories is bad. To me, it makes sense that the stories tell us things that are meaningful for the current story arc and not just something written for the sake of equality. If said meaningful story involves the alliance, good. If not, that's a shame, but I can accept it. It's not done because the alliance doesn't have a story. It's done because it makes sense, so we can see the whole picture. The one we haven't eben shown ingame.
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  #227  
Old 07-30-2013, 10:46 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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"Garrosh demands loyalty, but to him that just means dying at his command. He doesn't know what loyalty is. Thrall inspired loyalty. What Garrosh wants is obedience."
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  #228  
Old 07-30-2013, 10:56 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I was actually surprised by that line because I also read in Vol'jin's book that he and Taran try to learn their soldiers names to honor them, something Garrosh never bothers to do.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #229  
Old 07-30-2013, 10:57 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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I was actually surprised by that line because I also read in Vol'jin's book that he and Taran try to learn their soldiers names to honor them, something Garrosh never bothers to do.
They're really laying it thick on Garrosh. Evil is petty, indeed.
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  #230  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:17 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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I think I'm to the point where I don't care about what faction gets what amount of attention via short stories/raid focus/important NPCs/whatever.

This was a great story, topnotch stuff, just as all the MoP shorts have been so far. If one or more shows up and has an Alliance POV/protagonist, than hey, tits.

For me (and I acknowledge that this won't be a popular opinion) a good story is its own reward, and by contrast, tallying up the Horde/Alliance ratio doesn't feel like a rewarding use of my time.

PS: Didn't Ferlion quit SoL?
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  #231  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:39 PM
Ruinshin Ruinshin is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
I think I'm to the point where I don't care about what faction gets what amount of attention via short stories/raid focus/important NPCs/whatever.

This was a great story, topnotch stuff, just as all the MoP shorts have been so far. If one or more shows up and has an Alliance POV/protagonist, than hey, tits.

For me (and I acknowledge that this won't be a popular opinion) a good story is its own reward, and by contrast, tallying up the Horde/Alliance ratio doesn't feel like a rewarding use of my time.

PS: Didn't Ferlion quit SoL?
I was going to, but then I realized I wouldn't be able to get my daily does of bile and hate without this place.

And yes, this story was a well written story. The short stories are great in general. The problem is they are still plot relevant short stories not meant to be taken on their own. They are meant to be taken in the greater context of MoP's story, and thus they should reflect more than one side of the story.
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  #232  
Old 07-30-2013, 11:43 PM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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And yes, this story was a well written story. The short stories are great in general. The problem is they are still plot relevant short stories not meant to be taken on their own. They are meant to be taken in the greater context of MoP's story, and thus they should reflect more than one side of the story.
I guess that's the position I'm getting to; I don't really feel like there are sides in this story. Yes, I know, faction war, but the story feels both bigger and more focused than that.

Ultimately, I agree that this means the Alliance doesn't really get to ask the introspective question of "why do we fight/what is worth fighting for?" And that's a little disappointing, because they deserve that enlightenment as much as the Horde does.

Meanwhile, I'm finding myself taking long and longer breaks from this place simply because the bile is so unrewarding.
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  #233  
Old 07-31-2013, 04:45 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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I guess that's the position I'm getting to; I don't really feel like there are sides in this story.
Yay someone who thinks the way I do!
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  #234  
Old 07-31-2013, 04:51 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Yay someone who thinks the way I do!
For the record it's a great story and I don't think it would've been as good with the alliance, even if I think Koak stole the spotlight from the Order. They can't just be caretakers right? But Players see sides because Blizzard has hammered the faction war so hard into us. Do you really think the alliance has nothing to learn in pandaria or even teach? That's the big rub. The pandaren should be LEARNING about the other races instead of just teaching. That was a part of Shaohao's plan. To teach the pandaren that you can't be stagnate or that you can't hide from your problems.
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  #235  
Old 07-31-2013, 05:42 AM
Garotar Garotar is offline

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For the record it's a great story and I don't think it would've been as good with the alliance, even if I think Koak stole the spotlight from the Order. They can't just be caretakers right? But Players see sides because Blizzard has hammered the faction war so hard into us. Do you really think the alliance has nothing to learn in pandaria or even teach? That's the big rub. The pandaren should be LEARNING about the other races instead of just teaching. That was a part of Shaohao's plan. To teach the pandaren that you can't be stagnate or that you can't hide from your problems.
It should be obvious that the faction war story is meant to be a singular story told from different viewpoints. Most of the world of Warcraft story had been this way, which is why neutral factions work so well. That was my main point. There could be more things told from the Alliance point of view though.
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  #236  
Old 07-31-2013, 06:51 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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A very good story (though I was disappointed it didn't reveal us more cloud serpent lore - we know they are dragonkin, but just how are they related to the dragonflight dragons wasn't expanded upon, from what I know). Nice character too, though I REALLY didn't like the Dragonmaw shun party that was going on - especially after seeing their portrayal in TOD novelization. Then again, as Kosak said himself, he barely knew anything about his clan to really judge their actions, and mostly only heard tales about them.

The final "Horde patriotic" bit at the end was completely unnecessary, IMHO. Kinda ruined the, um "Pandarian mood"? Yeah, good job, Kosak, go kill yourself in the civil war... How does it even relate to the experiences he got with the Order? It's... It's not "letting go" and living for himself - it's sacrificing one oath of loyalty for another!

Also, the way Kosak hated Garrosh as if the Warchief himself pissed in his soup was hilarious. "Grr... Nazgrim didn't send a rescue party to look for me?! DAMN YOU, GARROSH, THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!!"

Overall, Garrosh's status as the "Anti-Doomhammer" continues to unfold. Who knew the dying soldiers blame the president in their last breath?

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The Horde is Ash Ketchum, the Alliance is Gary Oak.
Oh, come on. The Alliance is no way that awesomely assholish.

It's more like the Horde is Gary Oak in an alternative world where Gary kicked Ash's ass at every chance, and was patted on his back by Deliah, who praised Gary for being a much better trainer than her son. Meanwhile, Prof. Oak would lecture both boys against being abusive to their Pokemon (even if Ash never was) and preaching about how they are at fault for Team Rocket's actions.

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  #237  
Old 07-31-2013, 08:14 AM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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Gary gets all the bitches. Even Ash's mom.
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  #238  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:31 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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The story was well written. However I thought it was trite and unoriginal. Still enjoyed it while I was reading it so I guess it was worth the $0.
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  #239  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:48 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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This is a really great short.

Its something I haven't felt for a long time, and that feeling I had when I read some of the warcraft novels such as lord of the clans or even rise of the horde, where examples of orcs who are not just tools of there leader, but free thinkers who are capable of being more then what other assume them to be.

The example the pandaren gave Koak, that steel is forged with love and care, and given time and effort, makes it far stronger then iron. Iron is easy to bend and warp into whatever weapon you want, but it is brittle and breaks when you need it most.

An orc, learning this, and that what truth strength is comes from true loyalty, not forced obedience, is a very, very good lesson. Garrosh forces obedience, and orcs do not love Garrosh, they simply obey him. Thrall taught loyalty, and that is how the horde was formed.

I miss stories like this, like in rise of the horde were ones like durotan saw what was happening, well other orcs just fell into place with it, he saw the truth of gul'dans evil. I want to see orcs like this again, who do rise above themselves and become better then what there piers tell them to be.

The greatest weakness of the orcs, isn't the lack of strength. Its there inability to understand loyalty, honor to those who look out for you. And it takes real strength, to rebel against your own leadership, and stand with those who stood with you all along.

Really good short.
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  #240  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:51 PM
Cemotucu Cemotucu is offline

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It was written by the winner of the 2010 Writing Contest: Raphael Ahad.
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  #241  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:53 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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It was written by the winner of the 2010 Writing Contest: Raphael Ahad.
Oh hey cool. Glad they're still employing those guys.
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  #242  
Old 07-31-2013, 12:56 PM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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This story just gave me a good feeling.

One thing the devs haven't done, is show us orcs and how they really feel about garrosh and his rule. This story actually gives a good contrast to it. Garrosh does not bring the horde together, with loyalty. The message of how the horde is family, is resounding in things like Thrall and Vol'jins words, and in this story.
Garrosh order obedience, and orcs hate him, but still obey him.

I really just want to see the orcs free of garrosh and his kind of leadership, because thats when I liked orcs the best, after they were free of the alliance, and the legion, and able to just be who they were meant to be.

And like koak in this story, they are not bad people, they are not wicked like the alliance claims them to be. They are simply a people who have been taught the worst kind of examples in life, like the dragonmaw, like the warsong. Given time to teach them better things in life, like the pandaren taught koak, it shows they are capable of being more then just tools of war.
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  #243  
Old 07-31-2013, 05:16 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Originally Posted by MisterCrow View Post
I think I'm to the point where I don't care about what faction gets what amount of attention via short stories/raid focus/important NPCs/whatever.

This was a great story, topnotch stuff, just as all the MoP shorts have been so far. If one or more shows up and has an Alliance POV/protagonist, than hey, tits.

For me (and I acknowledge that this won't be a popular opinion) a good story is its own reward, and by contrast, tallying up the Horde/Alliance ratio doesn't feel like a rewarding use of my time.

PS: Didn't Ferlion quit SoL?
Same here! Although I'm still a Horde fan at heart, maybe because I don't play the game anymore, I'll take anything I can get. Loved the story, the main character seemed fleshed out pretty well, and had a cool backstory. not to mention a good insight into how Orcs felt during their time in the internment camps.

It almost makes me sad that there are so many people here who are so jaded that honestly they should just stop playing the game and caring about the lore for their(and to a certain extent, ours) own good. So instead of talking about a nifty cool story, we've spent about 90% of the thread arguing about Horde bias and the like. Instead of talking about how Koak and his misplaced Orcish identity makes him feel, how different it is for him to be a Dragonmaw in name but almost nothing else, how the Serpent Riders came to be(and about how crucial they were in fighting the Zandalari), we continue to have the same argument. While I can see the point about there not being enough focus on the Alliance, could it please be done in a separate thread?


Just my 2 cents as someone who doesn't play the game anymore but still cares, and likes, the lore.
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  #244  
Old 07-31-2013, 07:52 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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Same here! Although I'm still a Horde fan at heart, maybe because I don't play the game anymore, I'll take anything I can get. Loved the story, the main character seemed fleshed out pretty well, and had a cool backstory. not to mention a good insight into how Orcs felt during their time in the internment camps.

It almost makes me sad that there are so many people here who are so jaded that honestly they should just stop playing the game and caring about the lore for their(and to a certain extent, ours) own good. So instead of talking about a nifty cool story, we've spent about 90% of the thread arguing about Horde bias and the like. Instead of talking about how Koak and his misplaced Orcish identity makes him feel, how different it is for him to be a Dragonmaw in name but almost nothing else, how the Serpent Riders came to be(and about how crucial they were in fighting the Zandalari), we continue to have the same argument. While I can see the point about there not being enough focus on the Alliance, could it please be done in a separate thread?


Just my 2 cents as someone who doesn't play the game anymore but still cares, and likes, the lore.
100% agreed!
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  #245  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:51 PM
Hellscream1 Hellscream1 is offline

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Nothing to see. Just another story cementing how "evil" Garrosh is. Like we haven't had enough of that?
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  #246  
Old 07-31-2013, 10:54 PM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Nothing to see. Just another story cementing how "evil" Garrosh is. Like we haven't had enough of that?
Yeah, it's out of place and misaimed. The head of the state is somehow at fault that the local commanders didn't bother to send a search party?
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  #247  
Old 08-01-2013, 07:03 AM
C9H20 C9H20 is offline

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Originally Posted by Euphemialibritannia View Post
Same here! Although I'm still a Horde fan at heart, maybe because I don't play the game anymore, I'll take anything I can get. Loved the story, the main character seemed fleshed out pretty well, and had a cool backstory. not to mention a good insight into how Orcs felt during their time in the internment camps.

It almost makes me sad that there are so many people here who are so jaded that honestly they should just stop playing the game and caring about the lore for their(and to a certain extent, ours) own good. So instead of talking about a nifty cool story, we've spent about 90% of the thread arguing about Horde bias and the like. Instead of talking about how Koak and his misplaced Orcish identity makes him feel, how different it is for him to be a Dragonmaw in name but almost nothing else, how the Serpent Riders came to be(and about how crucial they were in fighting the Zandalari), we continue to have the same argument. While I can see the point about there not being enough focus on the Alliance, could it please be done in a separate thread?


Just my 2 cents as someone who doesn't play the game anymore but still cares, and likes, the lore.
Well said.

It is beyond retarded to chop up lore into pieces and then complain when your sliver doesn't satiate you.
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  #248  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:29 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Nothing to see. Just another story cementing how "evil" Garrosh is. Like we haven't had enough of that?
If the anti-Garrosh sentiment was the only thing you took away from the story, I think you're missing the point.
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  #249  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:31 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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If the anti-Garrosh sentiment was the only thing you took away from the story, I think you're missing the point.
Hey, don't hate the man for his forum shtick.
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  #250  
Old 08-02-2013, 11:34 AM
MisterCrow MisterCrow is offline

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Hey, don't hate the man for his forum shtick.
Mm, good point.
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