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  #10051  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:39 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Worgen getting along with Frostwolf Orcs.

Maybe the Forsaken wouldn't need plague if they have a pissed off shock troop ally as well.
Frostolf orcs would love to have new mounts!

The Forsaken would still need the plague. It's their "I win" button against their most hated enemy, the Alliance.

I'm looking at the more "what if" scenarios like so:

The history stays the same, the Wall, Third War, Genn unleashing the Curse upon Gilneas. But with some changes like:

1) The Horde never invade, but the Cata causes the Wall to come down. Garrosh finds out about the worgen and figures that they would be powerful allies against the Alliance so Sylvanas is sent in to negotiate.

2) Genn is hesitant to negotiate because "Forsaken and Undead!!" so Sylvanas finds out about Alpha Prime and enters an alliance with him and then uses the Scythe of Elune to "cure" the Gilneans.

3) The Alliance hears about the fall of the Greymane Wall and send it's own forces there but are attacked by the worgen and declare Gilneas to be a lost cause, which forces Genn and AP to team up, as one to protect themselves and two since AP has the only "cure".

4) In the end, the Alliance is driven off, and the worgen officially join the Horde and Garrosh starts asking for orc volunteers to take the Curse to make them even better warriors.
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  #10052  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:41 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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In that scenario, I'd rather Varian is still butthurt over the Gilneans not assisting post-Second War. He sends his force to be 'diplomatic' but things quickly break down when it becomes apparent the Forsaken are also in negotiations and just decide to take it by force. In this scenario, it could be that the Northgate Rebels ally themselves with the Alliance, or even Godfrey still. Either way, there's a more proactive and grey Alliance.
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  #10053  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:43 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
In that scenario, I'd rather Varian is still butthurt over the Gilneans not assisting post-Second War. He sends his force to be 'diplomatic' but things quickly break down when it becomes apparent the Forsaken are also in negotiations and just decide to take it by force. In this scenario, it could be that the Northgate Rebels ally themselves with the Alliance, or even Godfrey still. Either way, there's a more proactive and grey Alliance.
That could work, Varian would still be "WotLK-Varian" and that would be right up his alley.

Godfrey, of course, would join the Alliance, and trains the new class of witch hunters!

And he still get's to wear that cool outfit. Because none will escape their sight!
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Old 11-24-2014, 04:46 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
That could work, Varian would still be "WotLK-Varian" and that would be right up his alley.

Godfrey, of course, would join the Alliance, and trains the new class of witch hunters!

And he still get's to wear that cool outfit. Because none will escape their sight!
Godfrey would of course be a Human Hunter that is focused upon hunting down the ones he views as treacherous, the Horde Worgen of Gilneas. You could even have it be a split in the nation, with the worgen joining the Horde and the few surviving Gilneas humans becoming refugees in Stormwind.
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  #10055  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:47 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Godfrey would of course be a Human Hunter that is focused upon hunting down the ones he views as treacherous, the Horde Worgen of Gilneas. You could even have it be a split in the nation, with the worgen joining the Horde and the few surviving Gilneas humans becoming refugees in Stormwind.
Godfrey becomes the Worgen/Forsaken antagonist throughout Hillsbrad, rallying Southshore's survivors and reinforcing them with his noble/loyalist Gilneans.

Shadowfang Keep then gets two versions of an otherwise identical instance. Horde fight Godfrey/Southshore survivors, whilst the Alliance fight the Bloodfang/Ivar. I only say this because Godfrey's story doesn't really have anywhere else to go on account of him and his Gilneans not having any real purpose in the Alliance story if the Worgen/majority of Gilneans go Horde. Unless he became the Human Hunter trainer or something.
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Last edited by Drusus; 11-24-2014 at 04:51 PM..
  #10056  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:50 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
Godfrey becomes the Worgen/Forsaken antagonist throughout Hillsbrad, rallying Southshore's survivors and reinforcing them with his noble/loyalist Gilneans.
If Blizzard had done that....

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  #10057  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:52 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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I do wonder how the worgen curse would have been solved without the night elves.
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  #10058  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:55 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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I do wonder how the worgen curse would have been solved without the night elves.
Krennan works with the Royal Apothecary Society to find a 'more permanent' solution to the potion he gave the player post-turning. This also helps give them a bit more of an 'alchemy/SCIENCE!' feel rather than just furry naturific types we've been shoved with now without getting too deep into the Forsaken's 'mad scientist' trope.

The Tauren could also be involved somehow.
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  #10059  
Old 11-24-2014, 04:58 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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You also have Alpha Prime and the Scythe Of Elune as well. Unless they were only written in so that they would have an excuse as to why the worgen would join the Alliance.

If we wipe that all out, then we would go back to the original explaination of "worgen came from a different planet and it was Arugal who figured out a way to turn worgen back into their human form during the day."

So by using Arugal's notes, the Forsaken would have the cure and take credit for it.
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Old 11-24-2014, 05:02 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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I honestly never liked that the Worgen Curse is just a glorified druid form. I wasn't a lover of 'from another dimension' either, but at least it had an air of mystery.
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  #10061  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:19 PM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
You also have Alpha Prime and the Scythe Of Elune as well. Unless they were only written in so that they would have an excuse as to why the worgen would join the Alliance.
Yeah, I get the feeling that alpha prime was only worked in later. Firstly because he not only doesn't show up in game, his existence is never even hinted at. The big invading bad seems to be Ivar Bloodfang. Secondly, alpha prime is the primary player in a book that pretty much relies on the NE connection to curing the worgen, which would presumably not be present in horde worgen.

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
I honestly never liked that the Worgen Curse is just a glorified druid form. I wasn't a lover of 'from another dimension' either, but at least it had an air of mystery.
I hear that a lot, but as far as I can tell, the whole 'glorified druid form' makes a lot of sense, even using only info from 'nilla. We knew they were connected to Elune, we knew they could be summoned by means not all that extra-ordinary, we knew they originated among the night elves, and we knew that they had some connection to the colour emerald.
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  #10062  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:19 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
You also have Alpha Prime and the Scythe Of Elune as well. Unless they were only written in so that they would have an excuse as to why the worgen would join the Alliance.

If we wipe that all out, then we would go back to the original explaination of "worgen came from a different planet and it was Arugal who figured out a way to turn worgen back into their human form during the day."

So by using Arugal's notes, the Forsaken would have the cure and take credit for it.
The horde version would ofcourse be permanently in worgen form, with the forsaken "cure" removing their ability to take human form. With this they could kill off genn and have a worgen liam as leader. He could even be called sylvanas lapdog to please the sylvanites. The eastern horde would then be werewolves, vampires and frankenstein.
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Last edited by Yaskaleh; 11-24-2014 at 05:22 PM..
  #10063  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:21 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by Yaskaleh View Post
The horde version would ofcourse be permanently in worgen form, with the forsaken "cure" removing their ability to take human form. With this they could kill off genn and have a worgen liam as leader. He could even be called sylvanas lapdog to please the sylvanites.
If the Worgen were Horde I expect Genn would have kept his WC2 personality.
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  #10064  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:29 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
If the Worgen were Horde I expect Genn would have kept his WC2 personality.
Nah, let the man die as a human. Though, if they kept human form for the horde it could've then made it easier to add high elves for the alliance. A human/worgen model for the horde and a changed model for the high elves. High elves migrating to kalimdor would make more sense than human worgens.

edit:
Imagine goblins as a neutral race during wrath, subgroups of the steamwheedle cartel that has joined the factions as mercenaries.
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Last edited by Yaskaleh; 11-24-2014 at 05:37 PM..
  #10065  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:37 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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If this were all to play out I'd wager Horde would remain my main character faction and Alliance would be more my alts, instead of the other way around.
  #10066  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:43 PM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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With my idea we would have 3 races of each faction on both continents with the goblins and pandaren as mercenaries.
orcs, tauren and troll versus night elves, draenei and high elves on kalimdor. Humans, dwarves and gnomes versus forsaken, blood elves and worgen on eastern kingdoms.
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  #10067  
Old 11-24-2014, 05:52 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Would Worgen still maintain their distinctive Victorian London style? Maybe their Transylvanian architecture would have blended better with Undead's as well.\

EDIT: @Ma Caque, I'm thinking the Worgen wouldn't make the Forsaken not use the plague but consider it more of a last resort. Maybe have the Worgen convince the Forsaken to not use it unless absolutely necessary because they would still retain a bloodlust they would have to sate to remain in control.

Last edited by Lord Grimtale; 11-24-2014 at 06:22 PM..
  #10068  
Old 11-24-2014, 06:27 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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I'm not going to shed tears that another nation the Horde tried to kill isn't now screaming "for da Horde" and attacking former allies.

Same with Alliance goblins.
  #10069  
Old 11-24-2014, 07:58 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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I'm not going to shed tears that another nation the Horde tried to kill isn't now screaming "for da Horde" and attacking former allies.

Same with Alliance goblins.
Yeah I would feel immensely sorry for goblins if they been thrown in Alliance, have fun with more gnomes but greener.
  #10070  
Old 11-25-2014, 02:08 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I just realized. Blizz actually followed the advice of a popular character nowadays among Alliance fans!

''If you want something done right leave it to a human.''
  #10071  
Old 11-27-2014, 09:19 PM
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Too bad Magister Serena can't get the bodyguard trait. She's pretty awesome as a companion NPC.
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  #10072  
Old 11-27-2014, 09:31 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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I'm pretty sure that the Goblins were considered for the fourth Alliance race prior to Vanilla. I don't think it was ever a possibility for Cata. And I can't find any mention of Horde Worgen in any Blizzard interview.

ETA: I was wrong. Apparently there was a debate about which race would end up where.

Last edited by Jon Targaryen; 11-27-2014 at 09:34 PM..
  #10073  
Old 11-29-2014, 10:38 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Returning to goblins and worgen, what would you say is each races unique selling point?

The idea we started out with was: "Let's do a race that actually transforms in some way". And that evolved into this idea of taking the worgen, which is a story we've wanted to tell for a really long time, and make it so that people can change between their human and worgen form. For the Alliance, they represent a bit more of a sinister race than a lot of the others. They certainly don't have the purity of the Draenei. When we were developing them we thought of them as kind of the Forsaken for the Alliance.


On another note, does anyone think it makes zero sense for Vol'jin to hate Garrosh for using WMD's to claim his victories but doesn't think anything of Sylvanas using WMD's of her own?
  #10074  
Old 11-29-2014, 10:43 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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On another note, does anyone think it makes zero sense for Vol'jin to hate Garrosh for using WMD's to claim his victories but doesn't think anything of Sylvanas using WMD's of her own?
I think he has a crush on her. Must be the blue skin.
  #10075  
Old 11-29-2014, 10:46 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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On another note, does anyone think it makes zero sense for Vol'jin to hate Garrosh for using WMD's to claim his victories but doesn't think anything of Sylvanas using WMD's of her own?
Why do you say that? Because of the green pools in Warspear?
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