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Old 05-04-2016, 12:41 PM
Kiraser Kiraser is offline

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Default Movieverse: Durotan novel

So, the novel is out. I didn't read it. It's part of the movieverse, and I don't really care about it. Maybe I'll check the novel before watching the movie or afterwards. Dunno. Anyway, the novel is out, and I think it deserves it's own thread. Judging by the preview, it's a different version of Rise of the Horde from Durotan's PoV. With lots of differences from the game canon, but then again, movieverse.
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Old 05-04-2016, 12:59 PM
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I am trying to read it, but it is already bothering me, because movieverse. Big thing so far (I haven't gotten very far in) is that Orgrim Doomhammer is a Frostwolf. I get why they've done that; it simplifies things a lot and in movies, you need to simplify to get the story down to within two hours. But it feels really weird.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:19 PM
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I already finished the book. I think I generally prefer it to the Rise of the Horde, especially the way everything seems more larger and disparate, the way the Frostwolves are potrayed etc. Although it is not perfect by far.

I might write a review once I will have some more time on my hands.

In any case, if the movie is succesful enough, those who will like its lore might need a separate sub-forum to discuss it. Would get very confusing here in time.
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Old 05-04-2016, 01:28 PM
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Yeap, they had to change a lot of things to fit the lore and the story in a two hours long movie. Like, make some of the characters more appealing for the audience, simplify this and that, make villians more evil-looking. All that stuff. But there's the other thing. They changed the narrative of the First War. In the movie it won't be about Stormwind humans vs. crazy orcish Horde. Instead, it will be about Horde vs. Alliance with the narrative similar to the Horde-Alliance conflict in WoW.

I dunno. I just don't care. Even when it comes to the desgin and visuals, I like WoW style better. Nevertheless, I hope it will be a good movie, I'm definetely going to see it - cause Warcraft on a big screen. And it will be good to see some of the original ideas of the movieverse implemented in the game canon in the next Chronicle book (but without retcons of the later canon, please). For example, Gurubashi trolls attacking Stormwind - sounds cool. But I have a feeling, that they'll probably include Durotan's participation in the war too. He's Thrall's dad, after all.

My biggest concern is that the devs may decide to make the movieverse canon in the main canon. It would be beyond horrible. You all know why. And, yes, I do understand that it's highly unlikely. Metzen called it the Marvel Ultimate of Warcraft. And Marvel Ultimate didn't kill the main line of Marvel comics. Both Christie Golden and Mickey Neilson had tweets about movieverse being seperate from the gameverse. You know, I don't want to get worried because of this. I'll take their word on this.
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Old 05-04-2016, 02:35 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised, given how most of the canon first war sources we have are wildly inaccurate now (the Warcraft I manual, the Last Guardian having pretty much all the parts with Aegywnn and Neils retconned by Chronicle) I wouldn't be surprised if they'll try and make the "official" version of the first war (probably in Chronicle volume 2) as close to the movie's events as possible without the stuff that has major contradictions to other canon sources (like the Garona/Lothar romance or Orgrim being a frostwolf).

One neat thing from the book. Movieverse Drek'thar lost his eyes in a battle, a wolf bit his head and one tooth popped one of his eyes, and the other went blind shortly after. He wears his blindfold not because he can't see, but to cover his scars from the wolf bite.

That's the third version (albeit non-canon) of how Drek'thar was blinded, I kind of like the idea that maybe all of them are true, in that no one really knows other than Drek'thar and all the explanations we've been given are just rumors among the younger frostwolves.

"I heard he was born blind!"
"Well, I heard he lost his sight in a shamanic ritual gone wrong!"
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Old 05-04-2016, 04:26 PM
Skullcrusha Skullcrusha is offline

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Can someone post a spoiler of it?
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Old 05-17-2016, 01:21 AM
Grimo Grimo is offline

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Can someone post a spoiler of it?
Yup. Just finished it.

Quick review: quite boring, sparsely written, repetitive. Didn't really enjoy it. Funnily enough, it reminded me of a poorly written Cormac McCarthy's the road. It is a post-apocalyptic survival tale. There's not really a plot, just a bunch of situations which justify why a clan like the Frostwolves would join the Horde.

- The Frostwolves live in Frostfire Ridge, in a permanent settlement under a mountain called Greatfather Mountain. They hunt talbuk and clefthoof.
- Gul'dan asks them to join the Horde, and Garad refuses. Draenor is gradually dying. Gul'dan produces fruit and shows that it is rotten inside. He promises that there is an abundant land for the taking. Garad is secretly poisoned by Gul'dan, and he is too weak when he battles a clan of orc cannibals called Red Walkers. Red Walkers are cannibals who cover themselves in blood.
- Durotan becomes chief. He marries Draka, who was exiled as a child for being too weak.
- Greatfather Mountain explodes in a volcanic eruption. The Frostwolves flee north to a place the draenei call Haven, which is just like... a lake?
- An earthquake swallows Haven, so they flee north to the Seat of Spirits, where the spirits are supposed to come from. This is SORT of like Oshu'gun. It is a big crystal mountain, but no hint of naaru or draenei.
- the Red Walkers have been desecrating the Seat of the Spirits, because evul. Seriously, it makes no sense why. This is apparently why the 'spirits are sick' and fading away, according to Drek'thar. It is a weird chicken/egg thing: were the Red Walkers desecration killing Draenor? But didn't the Red Walkers become cannibals because the land was dying?
- The evul Red Walker chieftain is like blah blah, through a mirror darkly, Frostwolves are just like us, but we eat orcs and draenei, you'll be just like us one day, so Durotan joins the Horde.

Notes on the movieverse:

- no ogres or Gronn hinted at at all. I don't imagine we will see them in these movies. Pretty integral to orc history in main timeline, so I can only think that their absence means no ogres at all. I'm ok with this. Ogres are cool but they tend to just be henchmen and side characters. The movies don't really need them.
- no other races hinted at except Draenei. No mention of any cities. They exist in this novel only to be slaughtered, and to occasionally turn up and be kindly. No mention of Light or Naaru.
- Tanaan Jungle is mentioned as the place where the portal is.
- Thunderlord clan is mentioned as sharing the North with Frostwolves.
- No other clans mentioned at all
- Famous orcs appearing include Draka, Durotan, Gul'dan, Orgrim (who is a Frostwolf) Drek'thar, and Geyah. All survive to be in the movie.
- there are bears in this Draenor
- Gul'dan seems to be unique as a warlock. No other warlocks, or previous knowledge of them, are mentioned.

Last edited by Grimo; 05-17-2016 at 01:23 AM..
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Grimo View Post
Yup. Just finished it.

Quick review: quite boring, sparsely written, repetitive. Didn't really enjoy it. Funnily enough, it reminded me of a poorly written Cormac McCarthy's the road. It is a post-apocalyptic survival tale. There's not really a plot, just a bunch of situations which justify why a clan like the Frostwolves would join the Horde.

- The Frostwolves live in Frostfire Ridge, in a permanent settlement under a mountain called Greatfather Mountain. They hunt talbuk and clefthoof.
- Gul'dan asks them to join the Horde, and Garad refuses. Draenor is gradually dying. Gul'dan produces fruit and shows that it is rotten inside. He promises that there is an abundant land for the taking. Garad is secretly poisoned by Gul'dan, and he is too weak when he battles a clan of orc cannibals called Red Walkers. Red Walkers are cannibals who cover themselves in blood.
- Durotan becomes chief. He marries Draka, who was exiled as a child for being too weak.
- Greatfather Mountain explodes in a volcanic eruption. The Frostwolves flee north to a place the draenei call Haven, which is just like... a lake?
- An earthquake swallows Haven, so they flee north to the Seat of Spirits, where the spirits are supposed to come from. This is SORT of like Oshu'gun. It is a big crystal mountain, but no hint of naaru or draenei.
- the Red Walkers have been desecrating the Seat of the Spirits, because evul. Seriously, it makes no sense why. This is apparently why the 'spirits are sick' and fading away, according to Drek'thar. It is a weird chicken/egg thing: were the Red Walkers desecration killing Draenor? But didn't the Red Walkers become cannibals because the land was dying?
- The evul Red Walker chieftain is like blah blah, through a mirror darkly, Frostwolves are just like us, but we eat orcs and draenei, you'll be just like us one day, so Durotan joins the Horde.

Notes on the movieverse:

- no ogres or Gronn hinted at at all. I don't imagine we will see them in these movies. Pretty integral to orc history in main timeline, so I can only think that their absence means no ogres at all. I'm ok with this. Ogres are cool but they tend to just be henchmen and side characters. The movies don't really need them.
- no other races hinted at except Draenei. No mention of any cities. They exist in this novel only to be slaughtered, and to occasionally turn up and be kindly. No mention of Light or Naaru.
- Tanaan Jungle is mentioned as the place where the portal is.
- Thunderlord clan is mentioned as sharing the North with Frostwolves.
- No other clans mentioned at all
- Famous orcs appearing include Draka, Durotan, Gul'dan, Orgrim (who is a Frostwolf) Drek'thar, and Geyah. All survive to be in the movie.
- there are bears in this Draenor
- Gul'dan seems to be unique as a warlock. No other warlocks, or previous knowledge of them, are mentioned.
That seems odd, wouldn't they just kill the Redwalkers to stop them poisoning the spirits?
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:07 AM
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Sounds pretty meh overall, but I like what I'm hearing about how hard it is to survive on post-fel Draenor. Some orcs becoming cannibals in that situation makes sense.
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:11 AM
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Seems like a huge lack of interest in the movie stuff. Chronicles and Illidan were spoiled weeks before their release while it took like a week after its release for any spoilers on this. Haven't seen anyone bother spoiling Bonds of Brotherhood comic either and that's been out for a week now. Guess I'm not the only one who doesn't want to spend money on the movie story. I hope the lack of interest in the movie universe encourages them to redirect their efforts back to doing more main universe stuff.

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Old 05-17-2016, 08:17 AM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is offline

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Sounds pretty meh overall, but I like what I'm hearing about how hard it is to survive on post-fel Draenor. Some orcs becoming cannibals in that situation makes sense.
That's what's confusing, if Gul'dan is only Warlock and Redwalkers are poisoning spirits, then why is planet dying?
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:18 AM
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I'm still gonna see the movie and I hope I enjoy it but, I mean, only the Medivh/Khadgar and Gul'dan stuff interests me. I just don't care enough about the First War time period.
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:47 AM
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Seems like a huge lack of interest in the movie stuff. Chronicles and Illidan were spoiled weeks before their release while it took like a week after its release for any spoilers on this. Haven't seen anyone bother spoiling Bonds of Brotherhood comic either and that's been out for a week now. Guess I'm not the only one who doesn't want to spend money on the movie story. I hope the lack of interest in the movie universe encourages them to redirect their efforts back to doing more main universe stuff.
The comic actually comes out June 7th.

As for this book. I have seen it discussed a lot elsewhere, just not here. Might be that those who are actually interested in the movie stay away from this place, and for a good reason too. I myself have read it (and enjoyed it surprisingly a lot for a Warcraft book), but I am not going to give out any write up either. Do not have time for that, nor will.
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Old 05-17-2016, 08:54 AM
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I'd much rather have a Khadgar/Lothar bromance, and Garona just disappearing from the lore altogether.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:15 AM
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Overall the book was good, but since it is basically a retelling of a story a lot of people think they know, I can see people not being as interested, as opposed to new lore that ties in with the game.

The book is very different than Rise of the Horde though, so I'd recommend it if you plan on seeing the movie, and give a shit. Also it's interesting seeing a new universe with old characters, that isn't garbage WoD.
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Old 05-17-2016, 09:57 AM
Shadowsong Shadowsong is offline

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The comic actually comes out June 7th.

As for this book. I have seen it discussed a lot elsewhere, just not here. Might be that those who are actually interested in the movie stay away from this place, and for a good reason too. I myself have read it (and enjoyed it surprisingly a lot for a Warcraft book), but I am not going to give out any write up either. Do not have time for that, nor will.
My bad on the date. I also don't contest the quality of the novel. It may be very good, I just feel there's a lack of interest in the publications of the movie universe.

I'm not just basing my view on solely Scrolls of Lore but also other more popular sites. I've only seen a little on the official story forums and Reddit and the topics have died down a few days ago. MMO-champ has next to none. Just based off what I've seen from previous novel discussions it's a lot less compared to before. Wolfheart, Tides of War, Warcrimes, Illidan all have numerous pages of discussion on all these sites for a couple weeks after their releases whereas I don't see it for Durotan.

Maybe there is a lot of discussion on other sites I don't visit. But I do feel it says something when these particular sites that have previously discussed novels aren't doing so this time around with a noticeable drop of interest. I don't believe that lack of interest is from this being a bad book but because this has no affect on the main universe.
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:37 AM
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Why not make the Red Walkers Bonechewer orcs? They were already cannibals who were part of the fel-tainted Horde. Why make up a new clan?
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Old 05-17-2016, 10:59 AM
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Why not make the Red Walkers Bonechewer orcs? They were already cannibals who were part of the fel-tainted Horde. Why make up a new clan?
Red Walkers/Redwalkers aren't a new clan. In the original timeline they refused to join the Horde and eventually died out.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:00 AM
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Why not make the Red Walkers Bonechewer orcs? They were already cannibals who were part of the fel-tainted Horde. Why make up a new clan?
Actually Redwalker is from Rise of the Horde

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Redwalker_clan
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:31 AM
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Seems like a huge lack of interest in the movie stuff. Chronicles and Illidan were spoiled weeks before their release while it took like a week after its release for any spoilers on this. Haven't seen anyone bother spoiling Bonds of Brotherhood comic either and that's been out for a week now. Guess I'm not the only one who doesn't want to spend money on the movie story. I hope the lack of interest in the movie universe encourages them to redirect their efforts back to doing more main universe stuff.
It's just one book compared to all the other main universe stuff. If they're successful idk why they shouldn't devote more.
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Old 05-17-2016, 11:55 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Disappointing that this seems to be as... simplistic as you describe. Things like no ogres, and only three to four orc clans. I suppose this will not be the medium for a fully developed Blood River War, for example.

Ah well. Still hoping for an enjoyable film/universe that restores a First-Second War the way I remember it: sympathetic barbarian-invader Horde vs. sympathetic medieval-militaristic Alliance.
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:00 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Disappointing that this seems to be as... simplistic as you describe. Things like no ogres, and only three to four orc clans. I suppose this will not be the medium for a fully developed Blood River War, for example.

Ah well. Still hoping for an enjoyable film/universe that restores a First-Second War the way I remember it: sympathetic barbarian-invader Horde vs. sympathetic medieval-militaristic Alliance.
What other way has it been?
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Old 05-17-2016, 12:05 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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What other way has it been?
Demonblood-infected psycho orcs who basically functioned as Scourge 1.0, mindless slaves of the Burning Legion.

One is like a Mongol horde expanding because they want to. The other is more like Tolkien orcs, expanding only to serve the great evil Sauron.

Example: The two Blackrock and Roll! missions in WCIII.

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Old 05-17-2016, 12:44 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Disappointing that this seems to be as... simplistic as you describe. Things like no ogres, and only three to four orc clans. I suppose this will not be the medium for a fully developed Blood River War, for example.

Ah well. Still hoping for an enjoyable film/universe that restores a First-Second War the way I remember it: sympathetic barbarian-invader Horde vs. sympathetic medieval-militaristic Alliance.
Baron, the book does focus heavily on the Frostwolf Clan and the northlands of Draenor. The southlands are not shown at all, only barely mentioned. But we know all the orc clans of the game universe exist in the movie universe, including the likes of the Shattered Hand, Shadowmoon or Black Tooth Grin.

And I would say the orcs are indeed more closer to that than in the game universe. They are still "corrupted" by the fel, but they do not serve/revere the demons, nor do they even know of their existence (bar very, very few).
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Old 05-17-2016, 05:21 PM
Eterna Eterna is offline

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I already finished the book. I think I generally prefer it to the Rise of the Horde, especially the way everything seems more larger and disparate, the way the Frostwolves are potrayed etc.
That is the worst opinion I've ever read!
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