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Old 04-11-2014, 06:59 AM
Hellscream1 Hellscream1 is offline

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Default As an Orc player, why would I want to fight the Iron Horde?

This has been something that has been bugging me for a while and was prevalent throughout the end of MoP.

Why exactly would an Orc character wish to go against his people? They have never given us a real reason other than 'lolgoodguys'. Take MoP for example. An Orc player has -no- real reason to go against Garrosh. Why would you go against the Warchief who wishes to secure your people prosperity and safety through any means necessary? I don't see how an Orc could put other races above his own people. That right there is disgusting, honestly. Abandon your people to aid a selfish Troll and spineless Tauren, simply to etch out another meager existence in a barren desert with no visions of greatness or bettering your race. Due to this whole Horde fiasco, I am now an Alliance player despite my hate for the faction.

Now this brings me onto my next point. Why the hell would an Orc player wish to fight the Iron Horde? Any Orc would wish to fight alongside the legends of the past, and conquer his enemies. Why would I want to kill Grom, Ner'zhul, Teron, Kargath, Blackhand, ect. They give -no- reason for me to do that. Forced to kill the heroes of the past instead of working alongside them. Kill them because Vol'jin told you too. Great reasoning right there.

Basically, Orcs have no motivation to fight enemies of the last two expansions. It's getting real old. Wish I could join the Iron Horde.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:07 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Old 04-11-2014, 07:09 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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There's a short story featuring a Dragonmaw orc. You might want to read it.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:17 AM
Sonneillon Sonneillon is offline

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It's summed up as "oh noes Garrosh."
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:19 AM
Ujimasa Hojo Ujimasa Hojo is offline

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I'll bite.

Speculation: Maybe the Iron Horde are racist against green Orcs because green skin = fel corruption?
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2014, 07:22 AM
Hellscream1 Hellscream1 is offline

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The Orc in Dreadmaul Hold defects to the Iron Horde and she's green.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:25 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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I don't know. Orcish mentality never makes sense. One minute they're dicks for the sake of being dicks, then they persecute their own allies because reasons, then they brag about honor, then they willingly infect themselves with Old God juice because reasons.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:33 AM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
I don't know. Orcish mentality never makes sense. One minute they're dicks for the sake of being dicks, then they persecute their own allies because reasons, then they brag about honor, then they willingly infect themselves with Old God juice because reasons.
Because its honourable if Orcs do it, but nobody else is allowed to or they're filthy cowards.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:41 AM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Even though personally I think the player characters are empty vessels for Blizzard to project whatever story on to, if you follow the 'character development' throughout MoP and leading in to Warlords you find that the Horde player characters identify more with Thrall and Vol'jins concept of the Horde as a unified 'family' rather than a weapon of the Warchief's will.

Basically, in Blizzard's eyes every Orc PC has Saurfang's hindsight and Thrall's vision so that's why they are going to fight Garrosh who is trying to impose his view of the "True Horde" upon them.

IIRC Nazgrim says the line "What we do now, we do for the Horde. The both of us" or something close to it in Siege of Orgrimmar and it still holds true here. Any Orc that joined the rebellion is trying to protect one particular concept of what the Horde is and can be against another view of what the Horde is and can be.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:46 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonneillon View Post
It's summed up as "oh noes Garrosh."
More importantly, it's titled "The Strength of Steel" and discusses the relative merits of Iron and Steel in a way that probably foreshadows WoD.

Iron is strong, but it breaks when you need it most. Steel on the other hand is more flexible, less rigid and etc. It combines the unique strengths of different metals into one that is stronger than any one is on its own.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...gth-of-steel/1

Point is, we might get to be the "Steel Horde", so to speak.

As for the Iron Horde? It's already well on its way to shattering and breaking itself as it evicts clans like the Shadowmoon for failing to be traditional warriors or not achieving success with those tactics. It is ridding itself of alternate forms of strength because plans failed due to extraordinary circumstances. It's almost certainly not a stable organization, and sure to snap when sufficient pressure is applied.
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Old 04-11-2014, 07:55 AM
Insipid_Lobster Insipid_Lobster is offline

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This is the worst bait thread I have ever seen, it's completely countered by a short-story.

3/10
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:32 AM
Westlee Westlee is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post
More importantly, it's titled "The Strength of Steel" and discusses the relative merits of Iron and Steel in a way that probably foreshadows WoD.

Iron is strong, but it breaks when you need it most. Steel on the other hand is more flexible, less rigid and etc. It combines the unique strengths of different metals into one that is stronger than any one is on its own.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/lor...gth-of-steel/1

Point is, we might get to be the "Steel Horde", so to speak.

As for the Iron Horde? It's already well on its way to shattering and breaking itself as it evicts clans like the Shadowmoon for failing to be traditional warriors or not achieving success with those tactics. It is ridding itself of alternate forms of strength because plans failed due to extraordinary circumstances. It's almost certainly not a stable organization, and sure to snap when sufficient pressure is applied.
Oh, a metaphor that doesn't actually delve into merit or reasoning. How unexpected. /sarcasm
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Old 04-11-2014, 08:56 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Oh, a metaphor that doesn't actually delve into merit or reasoning. How unexpected. /sarcasm
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:30 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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In the 5.3 quest, which I can't see why they removed besides "world events are cool", orc players had a special dialogue option with Vol'jin asking why they should join the rebellion instead of serving Garrosh.

Vol'jin says he doesn't see you fat and happy like Garrosh's Kor'kron, and says you're just a tool for him. He restates that the Horde he and Thrall built is a family, not what Garrosh has made it into.

Considering you continue the quests, this appears to convince your character.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:38 AM
TerrorhoofMayo TerrorhoofMayo is offline

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So where is this short story and can I get a summery of it?
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
In the 5.3 quest, which I can't see why they removed besides "world events are cool", orc players had a special dialogue option with Vol'jin asking why they should join the rebellion instead of serving Garrosh.

Vol'jin says he doesn't see you fat and happy like Garrosh's Kor'kron, and says you're just a tool for him. He restates that the Horde he and Thrall built is a family, not what Garrosh has made it into.

Considering you continue the quests, this appears to convince your character.
Same job, same pay, the only difference being that Vol'jin tells you he's your daddy.
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Old 04-11-2014, 09:42 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Quote:
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So where is this short story and can I get a summery of it?
Krakhed posted the link. It was about a green Dragonmaw realising that the Horde was his family and not a clan he had never lived with.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:02 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Oh, a metaphor that doesn't actually delve into merit or reasoning. How unexpected. /sarcasm
Well.

Merit and reasoning?

Garrosh was a terrible, resource wasting leader who relied upon his allies to provide his people with basic necessities and weaponry, and treated them like shit anyhow.

Grom was a passionate leader once, but he had to learn self-control. He's not really Warchief material and not fit to handle the politics that being Warchief involves. And it does involve politics. The politics of treating your allies and their differences with respect.

Why did we stand against Garrosh? Because Garrosh was going to destroy the world in his mad pursuit for conquest, and led Orcs astray to desecrate everything they formerly held dear. He turned them against the Elements and such, and practically extinguished their actual culture. He mistreated and betrayed the friends and allies of the Orcs, the very people they fought alongside.

He abused innocent Orcish citizens who disagreed with him, and hypocritically slaughtered Warlocks who had done nothing worse than he had.

He was terrible, and any existence where he ruled would be an existence as a slave. Even his most favored would be nothing more than just that. A slave to Garrosh. That was the glorious future he promised. An Azeroth where every single man, woman, and child was his slave.

How wonderful.

And he's one of the masterminds behind the Iron Horde, and hasn't necessarily been putting the best leaders in charge. Instead he went with nepotism and got the guy with poor impulse control elected, though Grom at least tries.

The whole thing is based on some twisted ideal of what a proper Orc is, and the other Clans are only loyal because they fear the Iron Horde and were threatened with destruction.

They have no close bonds or anything of that sort. They aren't friends. They're just the conquered getting in line with a bully bigger than themselves, and so becoming bullies themselves.

The Iron Horde is bound together by fear and greed.

Why do you even need to ask why we should stand against it?

The whole thing is modeled after the cruel tyranny envisioned by Garrosh as what a true Horde should be.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:14 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlee View Post
Oh, a metaphor that doesn't actually delve into merit or reasoning. How unexpected. /sarcasm
Orc character is smart enough to see that shit's breaking eventually, specially considering WHO made it happen. Happy?
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:17 AM
Anasterian Anasterian is offline

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On the other hand...

The Iron Horde has an incredibly large and developed industry that was made in three years. Three years after they only just unified and began to develop their war-oriented civilization to fight the Draenei. Sure it isn't an eco-friendly industry, but it is massive and it is amazing in comparison to anything the normal Horde has.

Wheel chariots, trains, the iron star, etc.

Meanwhile Vol'jin used spear throwers in the siege, threw dozens upon dozens to their deaths against the Iron Juggernaut... and wears no pants. The only way the Horde stands against the Iron Horde is the plot dictates it from what I've seen so far.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:20 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Meanwhile Vol'jin used spear throwers in the siege, threw dozens upon dozens to their deaths against the Iron Juggernaut... and wears no pants. The only way the Horde stands against the Iron Horde is the plot dictates it from what I've seen so far.
pretty much. infact I forsee it being how the adventurer does something to topple the iron horde single handedly, and then vol'jin coming in and claiming victory for himself.
Lets face it, all we've seen him do is throw his own people into a bloodbath, and shoot arrows that bounce off things, he wasn't even there facing against garrosh in the end.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:28 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by Anasterian View Post
On the other hand...

The Iron Horde has an incredibly large and developed industry that was made in three years. Three years after they only just unified and began to develop their war-oriented civilization to fight the Draenei. Sure it isn't an eco-friendly industry, but it is massive and it is amazing in comparison to anything the normal Horde has.

Wheel chariots, trains, the iron star, etc.

Meanwhile Vol'jin used spear throwers in the siege, threw dozens upon dozens to their deaths against the Iron Juggernaut... and wears no pants. The only way the Horde stands against the Iron Horde is the plot dictates it from what I've seen so far.
Blizzard doesn't always handle things with the utmost competence.

Like, Vol'jin should have had pants. He had it in the art he was based on. Also, one can never forget the value of having a boss destroy dozens of lesser soldiers to make them seem powerful.

Of course, the Rebellion didn't have the full resources that Garrosh had been hoarding either. Now Vol'jin has the Goblins fully on his side, and it's the Goblins who really invented the Iron Horde when it comes down to it.

It won't be as hard as you think to prepare a solid match against the Iron Horde. It'll just require the intelligent use of the resources of every race.

Blood Elf anima constructs and magic, Goblin technology, Troll Loa and voodoo, and Forsaken alchemy could all easily help to even the odds.

The success of the Iron Horde is due to no one expecting them, but the first patch is all about buying time so that our factions back home will be more than prepared.

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Originally Posted by Tauren Paly View Post
pretty much. infact I forsee it being how the adventurer does something to topple the iron horde single handedly, and then vol'jin coming in and claiming victory for himself.
Lets face it, all we've seen him do is throw his own people into a bloodbath, and shoot arrows that bounce off things, he wasn't even there facing against garrosh in the end.
And I do wonder how much of that was because the Alliance didn't want to feel like they were being made to watch Vol'jin do everything? He could have easily had a larger role planned for him that was cut, so the Alliance could feel better about themselves and like they were not relying on anyone but themselves.

Last edited by Krakhed; 04-11-2014 at 10:32 AM..
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:34 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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On the other hand...

The Iron Horde has an incredibly large and developed industry that was made in three years. Three years after they only just unified and began to develop their war-oriented civilization to fight the Draenei. Sure it isn't an eco-friendly industry, but it is massive and it is amazing in comparison to anything the normal Horde has.

Wheel chariots, trains, the iron star, etc.

Meanwhile Vol'jin used spear throwers in the siege, threw dozens upon dozens to their deaths against the Iron Juggernaut... and wears no pants. The only way the Horde stands against the Iron Horde is the plot dictates it from what I've seen so far.
Well there's also the players, and all of those other races.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:37 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Well there's also the players, and all of those other races.
There's also the part that the Alliance won't have to work with Vol'jin this time around, so they won't need to distort things to make the Alliance feel good.

I mean seriously, they even put roaches around Vol'jin in the Alliance version of things and constantly pointed out that he smelled bad.

Things which were mysteriously absent in the Horde version of things.
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Old 04-11-2014, 10:38 AM
Tauren Paly Tauren Paly is offline

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Originally Posted by Krakhed View Post

And I do wonder how much of that was because the Alliance didn't want to feel like they were being made to watch Vol'jin do everything? He could have easily had a larger role planned for him that was cut, so the Alliance could feel better about themselves and like they were not relying on anyone but themselves.
no point blaming the alliance for vol'jins lack of skill, there were certainly enough alliance leaders in the siege who did little themselves, though I don't recall them sending waves of the soldiers to there deaths without a plan.

Quote:
There's also the part that the Alliance won't have to work with Vol'jin this time around, so they won't need to distort things to make the Alliance feel good.

I mean seriously, they even put roaches around Vol'jin in the Alliance version of things and constantly pointed out that he smelled bad.

Things which were mysteriously absent in the Horde version of things.
I'll give you that, that was more of a bait to make the alliance feel good about themselves in trying to appeal to the childish notion of 'horde smells'. Like you expect all alliance members to smell like roses in a long war. Aren't any baths in durotar, and there armors gonna smell rank after a day or so.
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