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  #3926  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:02 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Honestly I don't consider Drust attacking human settlers settling on their land to be wrong or evil.
I suppose not. The description of them reveling in the slaughter rubbed me the wrong way though.
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  #3927  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:05 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Eh, I really don't care if goth'dorei are a "race" a "class" or whatever. I get to play my favorite race on the Alliance. And that's the main reason why I pre-ordered BfA. I can care less for the story, I get to play my favorite race in my prefered faction.

In other things, Blizz really needs to detune the normal Cata/MoP dungeons. Unless tanking/healing has gotten incredibly difficult once you hit 60, I shouldn't as a tank be dying on mobs or having to blow my CDs in damn near every single fight I'm in. And it's not a gear issue considering I'm in full heirloom.

I'd expect this level of difficulty on a heroic/mythic. Not a normal.

And then you hit WoD and the dungeons go back to do a clean run without dying on anything, unless you get extremely stupid.
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  #3928  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:17 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Eh, I really don't care if goth'dorei are a "race" a "class" or whatever. I get to play my favorite race on the Alliance. And that's the main reason why I pre-ordered BfA. I can care less for the story, I get to play my favorite race in my prefered faction.
I think the core of the issue is that such a statement as "X race would make more sense as a class" doesn't really hold any solid ground and just seems more like an objection against a playable race existing. Same argument was made by people who were firmly against Worgen as a sufficient race concept "why can't they be a class? They make no sense as a race". It's just another roundabout way of saying "I don't like this being a race, I want it removed in favor of a race I would rather see playable".

So to those of you making that kind of argument, just tell us the real argument up front. You don't like Void Elves, and you don't want them to be playable. You want High Elves. That's really all it boils down to.
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  #3929  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:32 AM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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I'm sorry, but this is bothering me.... Looking at Mr. Harpoon-arm guy there.... how is that guy supposed to walk, especially on things like cobblestoned streets?

(I consider the picture necessary to the post)
the same way we can walk with those megaornate shoulders and facecovering helmets. Kyalin block me please, you literally can't say anything smart so i don't want you adressing me or looking at my posts.
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  #3930  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:37 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Eh, I really don't care if goth'dorei are a "race" a "class" or whatever.
Not really answering to you, but this made me realize I may be casting a wrong perception.

I'm not arguing that they should be a class, only saying that their lore feel more like a class than a race.

They are a small group. The scenario hints at a few dozens. They are transformed from a base race. Their entire motivation (so far) is to study a source of magical power. Their ethos revolves around mastering such power. All these things fit a class way more than a race.

A race involves having some sort of culture, varied specialized groups (classes), civilians and so on.

I want to see them developed as a race, that's all.
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  #3931  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:47 AM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is online now

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I think the core of the issue is that such a statement as "X race would make more sense as a class" doesn't really hold any solid ground and just seems more like an objection against a playable race existing. Same argument was made by people who were firmly against Worgen as a sufficient race concept "why can't they be a class? They make no sense as a race". It's just another roundabout way of saying "I don't like this being a race, I want it removed in favor of a race I would rather see playable".

So to those of you making that kind of argument, just tell us the real argument up front. You don't like Void Elves, and you don't want them to be playable. You want High Elves. That's really all it boils down to.
Nope. It actually makes a lot more sense to me for the void elves to be something like a class than an actually playable race with several class options, given their backstory. Also, I don't care about worgen almost at all but I don't think that's a good comparison. The worgen curse doesn't imply having them control otherwordly energies that require training to wield, nor were the gilneans transformed all just a small band of people made up of just one class, who were interested beforehand in mastering the worgen form or anything like that.
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  #3932  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:48 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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This is amazing:

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  #3933  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:25 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
They are a small group. The scenario hints at a few dozens. They are transformed from a base race. Their entire motivation (so far) is to study a source of magical power. Their ethos revolves around mastering such power. All these things fit a class way more than a race.
Here is one thing that I think that you are missing when you look at the bigger picture.

How much time has passed since the Void Elves joined the Alliance? A month or two? How long does it take to establish a culture, varied specialized groups?

A race involves having some sort of culture, varied specialized groups (classes), civilians and so on.

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I want to see them developed as a race, that's all.
As do I, as do I. But you have to have patience. They literally just introduced them. The expac hasn't even dropped yet. Look at how long it took them to develop the worgen. In Cata they barely did anything and were barely involved in any lore/story advancement until Legion mainly because they were just humans who were turned into werewolves.

I would expect, considering the groundwork that they laid with Legion and Alleria's intiation into the Void, that once we start delving deeper into the Void that the lore/story is going to advance a lot for them. But as of right now, there isn't a whole lot since they were just introduced.
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  #3934  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:38 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
As do I, as do I. But you have to have patience. They literally just introduced them. The expac hasn't even dropped yet. Look at how long it took them to develop the worgen. In Cata they barely did anything and were barely involved in any lore/story advancement until Legion mainly because they were just humans who were turned into werewolves.

I would expect, considering the groundwork that they laid with Legion and Alleria's intiation into the Void, that once we start delving deeper into the Void that the lore/story is going to advance a lot for them. But as of right now, there isn't a whole lot since they were just introduced.
I would hope that if they get future lore that builds on them, it would not be in the same rushed manner that Lightforged were given in Argus. I think Nightborne set a better framework for how to establish a race into the setting before making it playable.
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  #3935  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:42 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Apparently the drust attacked the human settlers first back in the day. I'd hoped there was some good old fashioned colonial expansionism going on. Gorak Tul and Arom Waycrest singing Savages from Pocahontas. Alas, it was not to be and it's all the drust's fault from the sound of things.
Are there any links to any videos of the complete Drustvar questing experience? I already saw Nazmir.
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  #3936  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:48 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
How much time has passed since the Void Elves joined the Alliance? A month or two? How long does it take to establish a culture, varied specialized groups?
That's not a good excuse. It just shows how undeveloped they are. At least to me, a playable race needs more than what they got.

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As do I, as do I. But you have to have patience. They literally just introduced them. The expac hasn't even dropped yet. Look at how long it took them to develop the worgen. In Cata they barely did anything and were barely involved in any lore/story advancement until Legion mainly because they were just humans who were turned into werewolves.

I would expect, considering the groundwork that they laid with Legion and Alleria's intiation into the Void, that once we start delving deeper into the Void that the lore/story is going to advance a lot for them. But as of right now, there isn't a whole lot since they were just introduced.
I'm not talking about doing something, but what they got in their introduction.

Yes, worgen may not have done much in Cataclysm, but they were based on previous lore (Gilneans existed beforehand, worgen existed beforehand, we knew humans could be cursed into becoming worgen, Gilneas was locked behind a wall, and there were worgen just outside), and they also got a wonderful introductory questline in their starting zone that perfectly sets them up.

I think void elves deserved a better introductory quest, and that Telogrus needs further development. Even a few more gossip text in NPCs explaining things about the race would make a huge difference.

As an example, if you don't mind reading a long text (in my limited english, no less), in the Blizzard forums, I wrote a draft of an improved recruitment questline for them. It's essentially the very same story, with us going to Ghostlands, then Telogrus, then Durzaam appearing and turning the elves. Except that is more grounded, gives them another known named character (that contrasts with Umbric in many ways), gives Umbric a little more presence and explains things like where the rangers/warriors of the void elves come from.
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  #3937  
Old 02-10-2018, 10:57 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Are there any links to any videos of the complete Drustvar questing experience? I already saw Nazmir.
I have no idea, I was going by the drust wiki page which cites come quests.
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  #3938  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:01 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I would hope that if they get future lore that builds on them, it would not be in the same rushed manner that Lightforged were given in Argus. I think Nightborne set a better framework for how to establish a race into the setting before making it playable.
Yes, nightborne/highmountain should be the benchmark for a playable new race.

But even the lightforged, for all their flaws, are better introduced than the void elves.

For instance, the lightforged have an entire cast of named characters that represent and give flavor to their classes (Enaara - Priest, Baraat - Hunter, Sorvos - Paladin, Telaamon - Warrior, Y'mera - Mage), as well as other interesting supporting cast (T'paartos, Quoram, Lothraxion).

Many of them had a small moment to shine in Argus, and some are gimmicky enough to be memorable, like Enaara, the bloodthirsty holy priest that is more interested in fighting than healing, and Telaamon, who is the calm, focused blademaster.

We also had time to know and help improve their "capital" city. We know about its capabilities, have familiarity with it.

Those are all things that the void elves lack.
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  #3939  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:24 AM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
I would hope that if they get future lore that builds on them, it would not be in the same rushed manner that Lightforged were given in Argus. I think Nightborne set a better framework for how to establish a race into the setting before making it playable.
As we start dealing more with the Void and digging deeper into the lore behind I would expect that we would start to dig more deeper into the Void elves.

I heartedly recommened listening to the audio play about Alleria and her delving into the Void. Many of the lessons that she learned from Lotus Walker should be the same lessons that she is teaching the void elves.

Honestly, I don't think that that the Lightforged were that rushed when it came to introducing them. They are just draenei who got blessed by the Naaru and became infused with the Light. We already have a ton of lore on the Light and Paladins and all that.

I guess that's why I am kinda ho hum about them. We already have draenei in the Alliance, now we just get draenei with new skins and bigger horns and pretty much the same personality as our draenei.

Dark Iron are similar and Wildhammer would be the same but they have personality and I like DI humor.

Are there issues that I have with how the Void Elves were introduced? Yes, yes there are. It was over way too fast and just didn't have any real story impact. Would I make changes to it? Yes, yes I would.
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  #3940  
Old 02-10-2018, 11:51 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Ma Caque Attaque View Post
Eh, I really don't care if goth'dorei are a "race" a "class" or whatever. I get to play my favorite race on the Alliance. And that's the main reason why I pre-ordered BfA. I can care less for the story, I get to play my favorite race in my prefered faction.

In other things, Blizz really needs to detune the normal Cata/MoP dungeons. Unless tanking/healing has gotten incredibly difficult once you hit 60, I shouldn't as a tank be dying on mobs or having to blow my CDs in damn near every single fight I'm in. And it's not a gear issue considering I'm in full heirloom.

I'd expect this level of difficulty on a heroic/mythic. Not a normal.

And then you hit WoD and the dungeons go back to do a clean run without dying on anything, unless you get extremely stupid.
If you're not doing dungeons for fun, you shouldn't do them at all.

I just got my Void Elf to 110. PvP (arenas and BG) > questing > anything > dungeons, in terms of leveling efficiency.

In WoD you should use the Timeless Isle gimmick to skip the Tanaan Intro and hunt treasures+bonus objectives. That should award you a level each 25 minutes.

Through Legion content I didn't quest at all. By standing still queueing for back-to-back PvP games I got a level each 40 minutes.
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  #3941  
Old 02-10-2018, 12:20 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
In WoD you should use the Timeless Isle gimmick to skip the Tanaan Intro and hunt treasures+bonus objectives. That should award you a level each 25 minutes.
I'm not sure, but can't you just skip the intro nowadays if you have already completed it with any character?

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Are there issues that I have with how the Void Elves were introduced? Yes, yes there are. It was over way too fast and just didn't have any real story impact. Would I make changes to it? Yes, yes I would.
Then we agree.
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  #3942  
Old 02-10-2018, 12:50 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
I'm not sure, but can't you just skip the intro nowadays if you have already completed it with any character?
You can skip the Broken Shore but last time i levelled a character through that (about two weeks ago, tops) there was no option to skip it. Wish there was; it's worse than Hellfire Peninsula, which is all kinds of ironic. At least it has the decency of giving good XP...
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  #3943  
Old 02-10-2018, 01:00 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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You can skip the Broken Shore but last time i levelled a character through that (about two weeks ago, tops) there was no option to skip it. Wish there was; it's worse than Hellfire Peninsula, which is all kinds of ironic. At least it has the decency of giving good XP...
Then I'm mistaken. I thought I had skipped it once.

--------------------

BTW, is there any lore behind the heritage armor? I do know you get a letter asking you to go back to your "capital" in order to receive the armor, but is there any lore moment or insight during this quest?
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  #3944  
Old 02-10-2018, 04:48 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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We have 6 different allied races. Do we really need to keep talking about the Void Elves?
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  #3945  
Old 02-10-2018, 04:57 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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We have 6 different allied races. Do we really need to keep talking about the Void Elves?
It's the one introduced last, has been around for only two weeks, and has the least amount of lore. So, it's natural to talk about them.

------------------------------

On another note, I still can't believe Blizzard didn't implement "Old God Whispers" to appear while we play a void elf characters.

Just put a very small chance of them happening on certain events, making it a rare event.

Examples:

On Killing a creature:
"They all deserve it. You'll will deliver them death."
"Did you like that? Isn't it satisfying?"
"This is all you were born to do."
"Yes! Yes! Yes!"
"Mercy is for the weak. Feast on the strong ones!"
"Feel the strength that courses throught you."
"The Void will consume everything."


When Entropic Embrace procs:
"Yes, use your power. Summon the Void!"
"Show no weakness."
"They all want you dead."
"Death is near."
"Let the darkness overtake you."
"Our thousand eyes are set upon you."
"Power is within your grasp! Seize it!"
"Kill them all!"


When you talk to a NPC:
"Your allies do not trust you."
"You'll be betrayed soon."
"No one will lament your death."
"We are everywhere. We are everything."
"Why do you insist on helping these people?"
"They all think you are just a monster."
"They are watching you. Be ready to defend yourself."


When accepting a quest:
"All you are is a servant. You could be so much more."
"Betray them when they least expect it."
"Why bow to mortals while you can be a god?"
"All your power, and this is what you chose to use it for?"
"Play the Alliance against the Horde. Let the world burn."
"You are being betrayed."


When you die:
"Freedom at last..."
"The flesh was weak. Now, you ascend to godhood."
"One with the Void..."
"Ny'alotha awaits!"
"Now, we feast on your soul."
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  #3946  
Old 02-10-2018, 06:28 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
It's the one introduced last, has been around for only two weeks, and has the least amount of lore. So, it's natural to talk about them.

------------------------------

On another note, I still can't believe Blizzard didn't implement "Old God Whispers" to appear while we play a void elf characters.

Just put a very small chance of them happening on certain events, making it a rare event.

Examples:

On Killing a creature:
"They all deserve it. You'll will deliver them death."
"Did you like that? Isn't it satisfying?"
"This is all you were born to do."
"Yes! Yes! Yes!"
"Mercy is for the weak. Feast on the strong ones!"
"Feel the strength that courses throught you."
"The Void will consume everything."


When Entropic Embrace procs:
"Yes, use your power. Summon the Void!"
"Show no weakness."
"They all want you dead."
"Death is near."
"Let the darkness overtake you."
"Our thousand eyes are set upon you."
"Power is within your grasp! Seize it!"
"Kill them all!"


When you talk to a NPC:
"Your allies do not trust you."
"You'll be betrayed soon."
"No one will lament your death."
"We are everywhere. We are everything."
"Why do you insist on helping these people?"
"They all think you are just a monster."
"They are watching you. Be ready to defend yourself."


When accepting a quest:
"All you are is a servant. You could be so much more."
"Betray them when they least expect it."
"Why bow to mortals while you can be a god?"
"All your power, and this is what you chose to use it for?"
"Play the Alliance against the Horde. Let the world burn."
"You are being betrayed."


When you die:
"Freedom at last..."
"The flesh was weak. Now, you ascend to godhood."
"One with the Void..."
"Ny'alotha awaits!"
"Now, we feast on your soul."

Why would they waste money on that?

And why are you surprised?

They cant even put "hey i remember you from x" references in Legion (or WoD?) no khadgar differencing people who did the legendary from those that didnt.

Not even in quest text, Not even in Flavor text.
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  #3947  
Old 02-10-2018, 08:18 PM
Ethenil Ethenil is offline

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Deicide, those would be cool!
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  #3948  
Old 02-10-2018, 09:34 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Hunter pets are going back to one family-specific spec that you can't change out of. What expansion was it that let you choose any spec for any family? MoP?

I feel a bit conflicted about this change. On the one hand it was nice for hunters to be able to bring any pet they want for any situation, but on the other hand this brings back some flavor.
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:46 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Originally Posted by Asterisk View Post
Hunter pets are going back to one family-specific spec that you can't change out of. What expansion was it that let you choose any spec for any family? MoP?

I feel a bit conflicted about this change. On the one hand it was nice for hunters to be able to bring any pet they want for any situation, but on the other hand this brings back some flavor.
Hm. Nope, I don't like this.

I like being able to use what pets I want. Though I barely use my hunter (finally dusted her off and leveled her though) so I guess it don't matter much. But that's a lame change.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:47 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Originally Posted by Royalpimp View Post
Nope. It actually makes a lot more sense to me for the void elves to be something like a class than an actually playable race with several class options, given their backstory. Also, I don't care about worgen almost at all but I don't think that's a good comparison. The worgen curse doesn't imply having them control otherwordly energies that require training to wield, nor were the gilneans transformed all just a small band of people made up of just one class, who were interested beforehand in mastering the worgen form or anything like that.
The thing about elves is that they seem to respond to magic and mutate rather easily- them and trolls. A little void juju is enough to make a new breed of elves but it isn't enough to make them a class: arcane juju made night elves, old god juju made naga, fel juju made blood elves, etc.
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