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  #4001  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:06 AM
Whitrix Whitrix is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Daelin's death.

Also wrong. Read the Zandalari lines that regard the Horde before spewing nonsense all over.
Can you point me to where can I find those lines before telling me I'm spewing nonsense because of information I have clearly not read?

And no, Daelin's death does not justify a nation banishing from the planet for 10 years or more, regardless of their political inner turmoil. Unless of course they had a closed wall inland and a dangerous reef on water like Gilneas. That was an excuse.
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  #4002  
Old 02-13-2018, 09:40 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
So is there any logical and reasonable explanation as to why 2 powerful individuals like Zul and the Zandalari princess are suddenly randomly in a Stormwind prison or are we supposed to just turn our brains off and go along with the heavy-handed ham-fisted way to get the Zandalari to join the Horde?
They were being personally guarded by the 7th Legion who are no joke, and in the case of Zul it looks like he knew he'd be busted out so didn't bother to try force.

Incidentally, I was thinking the other night but there's actually a pretty big gap in the Alliance narrative right now.

With Horde, we know it goes Siege of Lordaeron>Break Saurfang out of Stockades>Go to Zandalar to begin expansion proper

With the Alliance there's still what seems to be a big step missing. Siege of Lordaeron>Chase Sylvanas>???>Go to Kul'Tiras with Jaina to begin expansion proper
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  #4003  
Old 02-13-2018, 10:38 AM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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I'm guessing that the reason why Zul and Talanji are imprisoned in Stormwind is either featured in the 8.0 pre-expac quests or the Before the Storm novel. Actually, I can imagine the Alliance would just want to arrest Zul on sight for the shit he pulled in Cata with ZG and Isle of Thunder. If Talanji was with him, assisting him or appearing to be assisting him, I'd guess she's arrested as an accessory.

The fact they weren't executed and just imprisoned means Stormwind might have been negotiating with Zuldazar for their release, extradition or punishment.
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  #4004  
Old 02-13-2018, 11:13 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Speculation time:

From what I can gather, the Horde was in talks with the Zandalari. The princess was en route to Orgrimmar to begin with. The Alliance found out about it and captured her (I guess to force Zandalar to cut negotiations with the Horde).

The Horde is sent not to rescue Saurfang, but the princess.

With the princess rescued, the Alliance fears Zandalar will join the Horde, thus granting it naval superiority. With that in mind, Anduin decides their best bet is to recruit Kul Tiras into the fold. But, since Admiral Proudmoore's death, Kul Tiras has cut off political ties with the Eastern Kingdoms (thought I'll guess their ports were always open to commerce).
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  #4005  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:29 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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The trailer for Ulduar timewalking uses the new faceless one models from the alpha for some reason:



I wonder if that's a mistake or if all faceless one models are being replaced. Usually they only do that with models that are just HD revamps of the originals, not entirely new designs like this one.
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  #4006  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:32 PM
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I've probably missed something, but I would imagine it will have something to do with Jaina's absence and will be covered in Before the Storm given Christie Golden's writing history and it would also deal with both her absence and the the imprisonment hand wave. Also Jaina took part in the Isle of Thunder storyline which gave her experience with the Zandalari.
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  #4007  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:36 PM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
The Horde is sent not to rescue Saurfang, but the princess.
This still bothers me immensely.
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  #4008  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:49 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
So... In a world where everyone can get around by magic, boat, zeppelin or gunship, they're going to blame Kul Tiras disappearance on... what? The Cataclysm movement of the island?

At least they could say something like "We didn't want to be in an Alliance with the traitor (Jaina) that allied with orcs to kill our lord"/king/whatever Daelin was.
Just add a little text or short story on how there was a meeting in which Kul Tiras officially left the Alliance back then.

It makes no sense for the Alliance to have so much trouble reallying with an already member state of their organization and the Horde just getting alliances out of nowhere with anyone who tried to kill them just yesterday.
Jaina is the reason.
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The island nation of Kul Tiras is the greatest naval power in all of Azeroth, but we've had no contact with them since Jaina's father, Lord Admiral Daelin Proudmoore, was defeated at Theramore.
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  #4009  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:49 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
This still bothers me immensely.
Not me, feels shameful to us, but the orcs are all about "Victory or death", after all. Saurfang is a warrior, they probably see his capture as his fault, as he was not able to gloriously die in the field. He himself probably feels very ashamed of it, and saw he would be more useful diverting attention from the escapees than escaping with them.

Other warchief maybe would have want to free him, but to Sylvanas you either are useful or as good as dead. For her, he's more useful as a martyr to rally the orcs behind her, than as a potential rival for leadership if she acts dishonorable.
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  #4010  
Old 02-13-2018, 12:52 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gromak View Post
This still bothers me immensely.
Are we 100% sure the Horde actually knows Saurfang is still alive after the retreat from Lordaeron City, or might they legitimately think he died there if the Alliance took steps to keep his capture a secret?
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  #4011  
Old 02-13-2018, 01:08 PM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
The trailer for Ulduar timewalking uses the new faceless one models from the alpha for some reason:

I wonder if that's a mistake or if all faceless one models are being replaced. Usually they only do that with models that are just HD revamps of the originals, not entirely new designs like this one.
For what it's worth, the WowDB model viewer shows them using the new model, both on the live and beta versions of the database.
http://www.wowdb.com/npcs/29311-herald-volazj
http://beta.wowdb.com/npcs/29311-herald-volazj

But then again, database sites have been wrong in the past (like Wowhead's model viewer displaying all imp NPCs using the 6.2 imp model even before all of the old imp models were replaced in... 7.0, I think?).
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  #4012  
Old 02-13-2018, 01:30 PM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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Originally Posted by ARM3481 View Post
Are we 100% sure the Horde actually knows Saurfang is still alive after the retreat from Lordaeron City, or might they legitimately think he died there if the Alliance took steps to keep his capture a secret?
The rescue party doesn't act the least bit surprised finding him in the SW prison, but very surprised that he refuses to come along with them. It seems though that his rescue was not a primary objective as the rescue of the Zandalari was, as he said he'd go talk to Anduin and buy them as much time as he can.
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  #4013  
Old 02-13-2018, 01:54 PM
Hipnos Hipnos is offline

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The updated faceless one model is called facelessone02 or something like that, I think all of the old faceless will be updated, and to be honest, the new design looks like the one from Warcraft 3, faaaaaaaaaaaaar better than the one we have now.
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  #4014  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:02 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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I'm not at all surprised Sylvanas didn't tell them to bring Saurfang back, since he'd be the first one to go against her if/when she does something stupid.
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  #4015  
Old 02-13-2018, 03:10 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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http://www.wowhead.com/news=281839/b...aghar-direwolf

Well, the "Orc Clan" race mount is called "Mag'har Dire Wolf".

So, there's still hope we won't be dealing with AU shenanigans.
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  #4016  
Old 02-13-2018, 04:23 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
http://www.wowhead.com/news=281839/b...aghar-direwolf

Well, the "Orc Clan" race mount is called "Mag'har Dire Wolf".

So, there's still hope we won't be dealing with AU shenanigans.
I've seen some think that the Iron Horde remnants/survivors take on the name because they didn't join up with Gul'dan but that seems a stretch to me since there's, y'know, already a group called the Mag'har.

Yeah hoping they dust them off. Aside from Aggra and Garrosh, they've been kind of left to gather dust.
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  #4017  
Old 02-13-2018, 04:29 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Outland sure is known for its Cool winters.

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  #4018  
Old 02-13-2018, 04:32 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Originally Posted by Gurzog View Post
Outland sure is known for its Cool winters.

They certainly used to, and lord only knows what sort of weather Outland gets at this point.

What, you think that after Draenor broke they told their wolves to fuck off?

edit: Sylvanas gives her reasons for Teldrassil:

It is uncertain, Warchief.
Opportunity?
Warchief, may I ask why we want to capture Teldrassil?

"Time is sensitive here, but I respect that you seek to know more.
<Sylvanas points to Silithus on the map>.
No matter what I do, THIS will change the balance of power.
And azerite sightings are coming in from across the world, $n. We still do not know its full potential, we only know that it will create a new generation of warfare.
What will war look like in twenty years? In a hundred?"

"The Horde's children, and their children's children, will curse our memories as they burn.
If life had any mercy at all, you and I would exist in peace for the rest of our days. We have both seen enough of war, but neither of us has seen the last of it.
The Horde and the Alliance have been at a stalemate. Both of our armies have been exhausted against the Legion.
But therein, I see an opportunity."

"We take this azerite and use it to conquer Kalimdor.
We build the greatest empire ever known; one that is untouchable against the Alliance.
With the seas parting our lands, rather than mere borders, we can live and prosper without conflict.
That is how you ensure the survival of the Horde for the next hundred years, $n."


On the one hand, it does make some sense to solidify things on one side and use the ocean itself as a border. On the other, it seems odd for her to essentially write off the EK, and I can't imagine the Blood Elves would be happy with that.

There's other broadcast text too, Saurfang not agreeing with Sylvanas and her telling him off (mentions his son and how he'll meet him soon maybe, or perhaps she'll just raise Saurfang). Also Void Elves are present at the attack on Undercity and apparently are quite numerous.

Also do note that Sylvanas talks of capturing Teldrassil, not burning.

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  #4019  
Old 02-13-2018, 04:55 PM
taelon taelon is offline

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Originally Posted by Whitrix View Post
So... In a world where everyone can get around by magic, boat, zeppelin or gunship, they're going to blame Kul Tiras disappearance on... what? The Cataclysm movement of the island?

At least they could say something like "We didn't want to be in an Alliance with the traitor (Jaina) that allied with orcs to kill our lord"/king/whatever Daelin was.
Just add a little text or short story on how there was a meeting in which Kul Tiras officially left the Alliance back then.

It makes no sense for the Alliance to have so much trouble reallying with an already member state of their organization and the Horde just getting alliances out of nowhere with anyone who tried to kill them just yesterday.
With kul tiras their was bound to be some odd element in it with the timegap. I either want them to think of a really cool idea why Kul Tiras hasn't been a presence in the world (like the city is cursed pirates of blackwater style). Or just ignore it mainly and continue with decently how they did it.

I could see reason for kul tiras to have rejoined the reformed alliance of WoW vanilla, because eventhough they might hate jaina, Theramore is a seperate nation which already had seperate diplomacy being tight allies with alliance and friends with the horde. But Kul Tiras could also be justifyably be too but hurt about jaina that they had an ultimatum either of either Jaina went or Kul Tiras doesn't join.

As i said i think it's an interesting story to tell about jaina and kul Tiras. But you are right that it's a bit annoying with the continous ease horde has with diplomacy compared to alliance.
It's part of each factions storytelling bias, which does hurt alliance more during faction rivalry because of how horde is doing it. But it does make horde generally look evil and have less developed background character to a point where you see some horde nations being leaderless.

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
So is there any logical and reasonable explanation as to why 2 powerful individuals like Zul and the Zandalari princess are suddenly randomly in a Stormwind prison or are we supposed to just turn our brains off and go along with the heavy-handed ham-fisted way to get the Zandalari to join the Horde?
feels like a patern,
Alliance attacks Darksprear Tribe > they join the horde
Alliance attacks Goblins > they join horde
Alliance captures Zandalari trolls > they join horde

hmmmm.....a bit overused plot element. Also typical that when alliance is proactive against the horde it bites them immidiatly in the ass.
This one is probably the best depiction of the 3.
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  #4020  
Old 02-13-2018, 05:07 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Alliance are racist towards blood elves, they join the horde ,current leader gets killed by Horde as well as killing a burning legion commander.
Alliance are racist towards nightborne, current leader gets killed by Horde as well as killing a burning legion commander , they join the horde.

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  #4021  
Old 02-13-2018, 05:22 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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Took me 2 weeks of grinding, but I finally got it done!

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Now to decide between the Lightforged and Nightborne next.
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  #4022  
Old 02-13-2018, 05:28 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Well, at least now the Horde can finally be called the villain faction.

Going on murderous conquerer spree for a fourth time is no small feat.

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Took me 2 weeks of grinding, but I finally got it done!



Now to decide between the Lightforged and Nightborne next.
Congrats.

Still at level 59. Doing it slowly, aiming for completing mail transmog appearances vanilla/TBC (so yeah, I just chose to go Boreland).

I suggest nightborne later. Not only you play the other faction, IMO the outfit is cooler.
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  #4023  
Old 02-13-2018, 05:48 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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Quote:
"The Horde's children, and their children's children, will curse our memories as they burn.
If life had any mercy at all, you and I would exist in peace for the rest of our days. We have both seen enough of war, but neither of us has seen the last of it.
The Horde and the Alliance have been at a stalemate. Both of our armies have been exhausted against the Legion.
But therein, I see an opportunity."

"We take this azerite and use it to conquer Kalimdor.
We build the greatest empire ever known; one that is untouchable against the Alliance.
With the seas parting our lands, rather than mere borders, we can live and prosper without conflict.
That is how you ensure the survival of the Horde for the next hundred years, $n."
Sylvanas is right
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  #4024  
Old 02-13-2018, 06:01 PM
Gromak Gromak is offline

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Saurfang really needs to cleave that.
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  #4025  
Old 02-13-2018, 06:04 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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They're not going to devote resources to brown skin orcs and their various clans, only to ignore them forever. Just because people didn't like WoD, which isn't even all of the players, doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't. There's arguably more story potential with time/universe displaced orcs than Mag'har. Don't Void Elf this guys.
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