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  #26  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:46 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
It had something to do with Warlock and a BJ, I think.
I wanted to edit my post and add "But I imagine it involved something kinky" but decided against it.
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  #27  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:51 PM
Volkrin Volkrin is offline

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Originally Posted by Aneurysm View Post
It had something to do with Warlock and a BJ, I think.
I think it was a hamburger. Close enough.

Anyways, the recent Archimedes thing does make me wonder if, in addition to mods not being given powers outside their duties, they perhaps should not be allowed to arbitrate on user discipline cases in which they have a personal stake? If a man has to go to court to face an assault charge the guy he punched in the nose should not be the one holding the gavel, if you get my meaning here.
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  #28  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:51 PM
Dithon1 Dithon1 is offline

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Oh, God. -_- What drama have I missed this time?
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  #29  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:53 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Originally Posted by Dithon1 View Post
Oh, God. -_- What drama have I missed this time?
Who are you again?


And Sarah I think your view is probably the best one possible in said case.
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  #30  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:54 PM
Commander Rotal Commander Rotal is offline

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What should the administrator/moderator team be doing with the power available?
Their job and nothing more. Which is to say: enforce the rules (using normal user's help via the report button) by whatever means deemed necessary (personally i REALLY like the idea of Lordaeron, but only if it's applied to everyone), ranging from a nice short PN to Lordaeron, and banning bots (the new tech is going to help with that one, hopefully).

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How involved should the management team be with policing the forum?
Quite a bit - there's literally no one else with the power necessary to do it.

Quote:
Should the management be comprised of 'authority' figures who have Get Out of Jail Free cards,
I'm sorry, but i see an inherent problem with calling "get out of jail free card"-owners "authority figures". An authority figure doesn't ban people on a whim. An authority figure doesn't use banning (even for a mere few seconds) for a joke. An authority figure doesn't deside to cross a poster's name with testicles. An authority figure knows the rules, lives the rules, enforces the rules. The typical mod needs to be a poster-picture of... well... a poster.

also:

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Originally Posted by Nazja View Post
  • I want all of us to be equal before the law. If the mods show lenience with one person, because they like that person, the should do the same with others, even if they despise them.
  • If you, the administration, want us to follow the rules, enforce them.
  • The erratic behaviour shown by the administration must go. Do not make hasty decisions without the approval of the rest, if they are likely to disagree with you. We, the users, should not witness your disputes. You, the administrators, should show us a united front.
  • Have ironclad evidence, if you are going to punish one of us. Do not allow punishments to drive a wedge between us, just because you made a hasty decision, won't take it back and the other side has the better arguments.

Of course, Warlock is the boss, so do whatever he says, but remember that we too keep this forum alive. (That is, if you care about keeping this forum alive. )

Edit:
  • You, the mods and admins, should be our role models. Act accordingly.

In short: find a common ground for board rules, enforce them and follow them yourselfs. Yes, it's not going to happen, but you wanted our opinion and here is mine. Well... and Nazja's because i agree.
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  #31  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:57 PM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
Seeing as I made a topic on honesty like an hour ago, I might as well just give my full uncensored opinion here. I think Cantus and Bolvar messed up very badly when it came to this issue. This isn't a policy specific to just SPK because the same would apply to everyone, but if someone's being a consistent problem on here then the correct course of action is to suspend them first and then to suspend them again for even longer if they repeat what they were doing. What you don't do is to just decide to permanently ban them and then delete all of their account information without consulting the community on what was basically an angry whim. I wouldn't have done that if I was Cantus.

Then Bolvar comes into the fray and before you know it, its been decided that SPK should in fact return, but only to post on one of the boards because apparently it would be just too stressful to keep on banning someone that's been evading their punishment. If you try to circumvent a ban here, that should be you done. Its a terrible precedent to set that if you keep making enough accounts you can get away with anything.

So I'm put in the weird position where I wouldn't have either banned him in the first place or have allowed him to return after that decision had already been made.
I don't necessarily agree on the Cantus part. The ban wasn't exactly uncalled for. However, I absolutely agree that Slowpoke shouldn't have been allowed to stay after what he did.

Hopefully, incidents like this won't happen again.
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  #32  
Old 04-25-2013, 04:59 PM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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Originally Posted by Gortrash View Post
I don't necessarily agree on the Cantus part. The ban wasn't exactly uncalled for. However, I absolutely agree that Slowpoke shouldn't have been allowed to stay after what he did.

Hopefully, incidents like this won't happen again.
Hopefully SPK fall in lava.

Or gets re-banned (for good this time).
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  #33  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:07 PM
Tilgath Tilgath is offline

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In my view, I've noticed over the past month or so that the Admins/Mods have been quick to use their authority to enact their personal views on the forum. Whether it's permabanning people under questionable circumstances, banishing people to HoL as a joke, or banishing people to HoL because you don't like the tone of their posts.

I like the idea of HoL, but at this point I think it's more trouble than its worth. It seems like every Admin and Mod has a different idea for what it's for. As a result, I find myself questioning what's appropriate to post outside of there for fear of being banished. Can I talk about the faction conflict outside of it? If my post is bitchy, is that a definite ticket to HoL? Can I be confined to HoL for talking about the wrong topics while in HoL?

Again, in theory I think it's a good idea, a least the idea that Bolvar originally presented it as. But unless the Admins and Mods can settle on a single definition for it, the rest of us shouldn't be left in the wind wondering what's appropriate or not.

And more broadly, I agree with the posters who have said that Mod power should be restricted to the actual reason for being elevated to the Mod position. Like I said at the top, I've only been noticing the changes in Mod behavior recently, so I'm not sure what changed behind the scenes, or if anything changed to begin with. But I think The Powers That Be should definitely have a discussion on how to rein themselves in.
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  #34  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:15 PM
Saranus Saranus is offline

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(backs out of thread)
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  #35  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:18 PM
Eagan Eagan is offline

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Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
The limited powers thing seems like a potentially good idea for mods who overstep. Will bring it up.
My opinion matters little, Iím sure. But I donít think that is exactly what was meant. There should be very few people with full moderator powers in the first place. Each person should have a specific task, and they should stick to that task. That, is I believe, what Verdande meant. It makes more sense that way. If someone is meant to be dealing with bots, let them only deal with bots. If someone is meant to deal with drama, let them only deal with drama. This type of delegation forces accountability on those in positions of authority.
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  #36  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
My opinion matters little, Iím sure. But I donít think that is exactly what was meant. There should be very few people with full moderator powers in the first place. Each person should have a specific task, and they should stick to that task. That, is I believe, what Verdande meant. It makes more sense that way. If someone is meant to be dealing with bots, let them only deal with bots. If someone is meant to deal with drama, let them only deal with drama. This type of delegation forces accountability on those in positions of authority.
On the contrary, your opinion is everything Eagan.
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  #37  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:25 PM
Xarthat Xarthat is offline

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I'll try to be brief.

I never liked moderators of SoL acting like spoiled brats, at least the ones I remember from my old activity times. I don't know if they've got this discipline from 4chan or other god-forsaken place, but I felt like I was surrounded by assholes and children who got to the reins of power.

Most of that behaviour has subsided. However there are still some people in power (I won't point any fingers) who seem to think abuse of power for personal grudges is funny. You're not funny, you're not cool and neither do you behave like an adult person.

Who am I to judge other people, with my posting history, right? I would just like to note I was an actual teenager during the most awful posts, and I've learned a lot since. Like "arguing with idiots is pointless" which is why I stood absolutely silent about most moderator escapades.

You have rulers & regulations. STAND BY THEM. Don't make personal grudges. Don't make pens with laughing stock inside. That's all from me.
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  #38  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:26 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eagan View Post
My opinion matters little, Iím sure. But I donít think that is exactly what was meant. There should be very few people with full moderator powers in the first place. Each person should have a specific task, and they should stick to that task. That, is I believe, what Verdande meant. It makes more sense that way. If someone is meant to be dealing with bots, let them only deal with bots. If someone is meant to deal with drama, let them only deal with drama. This type of delegation forces accountability on those in positions of authority.
Your opinion, no matter how little you post or how unknown you are, should matter just as much as my or anyone else here has.
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  #39  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:27 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Originally Posted by Sarahmoo View Post
On the contrary, your opinion is everything Eagan.
She speaks truth.

It is time to tear down the Halls of Lordaeron, and free the oppressed!
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  #40  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:28 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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I think the popular opinion is to limit mod power to specific tasks. So that's probably what should happen. The rest is up to the mods.
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SoL: 20 something know it alls telling other 20 something know it alls they know everything.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #41  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:28 PM
Euphemialibritannia Euphemialibritannia is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
She speaks truth.

It is time to tear down the Halls of Lordaeron, and free the oppressed!
While ultimately the desicion rests on you guys' shoulders, I kind of liked what that place stood for.
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  #42  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:29 PM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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Originally Posted by Euphemialibritannia View Post
While ultimately the desicion rests on you guys' shoulders, I kind of liked what that place stood for.
So do I. Just bring order to it, and it shall serve you well.
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  #43  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:30 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Originally Posted by Euphemialibritannia View Post
While ultimately the desicion rests on you guys' shoulders, I kind of liked what that place stood for.
It could still prove useful indeed.
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  #44  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Timolas View Post
She speaks truth.

It is time to tear down the Halls of Lordaeron, and free the oppressed!
I love his little head-bob when he says "The people". He knows that he's talking nonsense to those people when he says that he's giving the power to them, but he still just wants to have fun with the whole schtick!
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  #45  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:34 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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I respect the moderators greatly. Presumable since there is no ads or cost on this website they are doing their job for free and their form of forum justice has cultivated a nice community. I barely even play WoW anymore but I like the people and community here. The fact that they made this thread should be a testament to how much they care. These people don't owe us anything and they do it on their own volition. Maybe I am out of the blue on what is going on but I understand constructive criticism but I really don't have any criticism at all. The forum is clean and they developed at interesting system of containment and deterrent for posters that are a nuisance.
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  #46  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:40 PM
Timolas Timolas is offline


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Moved this to Halls for a while, so affected posters can share their input, since this is what the thread is for.
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  #47  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:40 PM
Slowpokeking Slowpokeking is offline

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I do want to talk a little bit about the Mod and Posters' relationship.

I have many friends who have been mods or admins in other communities including WOW communities, I have also been a mod for a short while myself. Different communities require mods to do different things. The owner of the forum(In this case Warlock) has the right to do anything to anyone on the forum because it is his/her forum. But of course, to let people want to stay in the community. The relationship between the admin/mods and posters cannot be too bad.

I think one thing is clear on all other forums I've stayed. It's better for mods to stay away from the arguments, it's not like mods should not post anything, but must try avoid making any controversial points and try to keep certain distance with any of the posters, at least do so on the forum. Because admin/mods are also humans, if they join the argument and show their opinion, or have good/bad relationship with certain posters, it's quite easy for them to make judgment base on their relationship with the person rather than the rule or reason.

Sure I've seen many mods/admins could keep their power down even when they had fierce arguments with others, but it's better to avoid such situation.
I've also seen quite a few very knowledgeable mods made mistake on this. I understand it, we are all humans, so it's better to avoid our flaws. It's also wiser to express as little personal opinion toward someone or some topic as possible when they make the decision.

As for here, I know it's a small community, so people have tighter relationship, the mods are more active, but it's hard to avoid the problem, since they use their power and express their opinion. Some posters would dislike their behavior, while it could be caused by misunderstanding.

The rule is really not followed well, that's a big problem. Sometimes people get banned when they didn't go against the rule. Abusive languages against person rarely got caught while it's written on the rule, I am quite surprised. In other community it's usually one of the most serious offense. I understand sometimes people are joking but sometimes they are clearly not, nor did the person who got attacked accept it, warning and further action should be made by the mods. If some people could stay unharmed after violate the rule, why should other people continue to follow the rule? I don't think anyone here deserve permanent ban, but there are other ways to keep the community healthy without banish the user forever.

My opinion on banning is, different people have different opinion on this person, as a mod, it's ok for you to criticize someone, but when you are using your power, you should only look at did they go against the rule, if not, unless most of the users think he/she should be banned, personal opinion is not a reason to do so.

While this is a small community, it's still better to keep distance and to let everyone to follow the rule sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
I think the popular opinion is to limit mod power to specific tasks. So that's probably what should happen. The rest is up to the mods.
Limit mod power would lower the efficiency of their works, but it's overall a small community, beside bots, not many banning needs to be enforced against users. So maybe it's better to separate user groups, those who post less than 5-10 times, can be banned by anyone. As for other users, the admins can temporally ban them, but permanent ban and delete account needs some agreement or even public discussion.
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  #48  
Old 04-25-2013, 05:59 PM
Quirnheim Quirnheim is offline

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Considering I've been thrown down here for making joke posts, I don't think the moderators are too...well, useful right now. Many of them just wantonly ban for "whining" if someone even makes one negative feedback post in the up-world.
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  #49  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:12 PM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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Originally Posted by Quirnheim View Post
Considering I've been thrown down here for making joke posts, I don't think the moderators are too...well, useful right now. Many of them just wantonly ban for "whining" if someone even makes one negative feedback post in the up-world.
Moderators can't unilaterally put somebody in here.

Admins can, though. Hence what Bolvar did to Archimedes.
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  #50  
Old 04-25-2013, 06:13 PM
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Moderators can only ban and delete posts, they can't change accounts so that they can only post in certain forums. That takes an admin to do that.
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