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Old 03-18-2012, 02:21 PM
oblivion oblivion is offline

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Default MoP Press Tour Lore Thread

So i am already creating this thread for a focused conversation on the the overload of NEW LORE information we are about to receive in a few hours.

i just created a new "MoP Press Tour Non-Lore Thread" in the WoW Section.

i just don't want to mix the new stuff and the discussion of it with the general MoP talk over in "The big ol' MoP thread" so that we don't have ONE GIANT Thread.

I hope the Mods are ok with this.
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:22 PM
Ashendant Ashendant is offline

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Well we know blizzplanet are going to ask lore questions so at least some we're getting
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Old 03-18-2012, 02:22 PM
GenyaArikado GenyaArikado is offline

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Too soon
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:34 PM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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Didn't Curll say there was no lore in the press event?
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:44 PM
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Didn't Curll say there was no lore in the press event?
I'm sure we'll get a few scraps in some interviews, god knows scraps are enough for us.
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Old 03-18-2012, 04:49 PM
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I'm sure we'll get a few scraps in some interviews, god knows scraps are enough for us.
Christ on a cross, this website will be furious with activity when the new questing arrives.
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Old 03-18-2012, 07:08 PM
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Didn't Curll say there was no lore in the press event?
The event itself wouldn't have much lore. The interviews are where any lore tidbits would be given.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:19 PM
Curll Curll is offline

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Originally Posted by Jon Targaryen View Post
Didn't Curll say there was no lore in the press event?
When did I say there's no lore?
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:23 PM
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When did I say there's no lore?
Cantus implied as much or something.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:19 AM
Jon Targaryen Jon Targaryen is offline

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When did I say there's no lore?
I think I misremembered or misunderstood something you said. My bad.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:35 PM
AndyJP AndyJP is offline

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This thread has my endorsement.
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Old 03-18-2012, 03:55 PM
oblivion oblivion is offline

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well whatever stuff they put some of it bound to lead to a discussion on MoP Lore, so why not have a thread for it.

We can also use this thread later on for the general MoP Lore Discussion. This way we'll have a lore and non lore thread for MoP rather than one for everything.

the threads are for "sorting" the discussions coz SoL has the tendency to bloat such threads xD
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2012, 04:07 PM
Gadinhad Gadinhad is offline

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So every single fansite has some sort of unique info? Then which ones should I keep my eye on?

WoWInsider
MMO-C
BlizzPlanet

What else?
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2012, 04:40 PM
oblivion oblivion is offline

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thats about it i think. no other site will have as good a coverage as these three.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:19 AM
HalfElfDragon HalfElfDragon is offline

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They might go with the Sha thing to spice up the fight a bit. I mean, right now he's just an orc with an axe.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:22 AM
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Bah! The Horde should defend Garrosh, lose horribly, and like it.

Besides, it's hypocritical to kill Garrosh and leave Sylvanas alone. (And that is all I will say on the subject.)
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
Bah! The Horde should defend Garrosh, lose horribly, and like it.

Besides, it's hypocritical to kill Garrosh and leave Sylvanas alone. (And that is all I will say on the subject.)
Seems like some things never change.

The Alliance can only win when the Horde fractures.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:34 AM
Vil'rexin Vil'rexin is offline

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Seems like some things never change.

The Alliance can only win when the Horde fractures.
Horde players should be forced to lose in the final raid of the expansion and deal with it for a year. DUH
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:34 AM
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My feelings on this are...surprisingly mixed. In fact, I'm not sure I'm very happy about this because there are so many ways that it could be fucked up.

First off, I don't like the idea that the only way for the Alliance to beat the Horde is if the Horde collapses on itself. Yes, Second War and all that, but not only is the Horde in World of Warcraft logistically very different from the Horde in the Second War, but I don't like the idea that the Alliance just suddenly can lay siege to Orgrimmar despite an obvious lack of any military build up. How do they get enough forces to lay siege to Orgrimmar TO Orgimmar without a single supply line leading to Orgrimmar? How does victory on Pandaria equate to suddenly being able to besiege Orgrimmar? It feels like the Alliance is only allowed to win when the Horde LETS them win.

Second off, this is exactly what I was afraid of when it comes to directing the Alliance's wrath. Why is the Alliance so focused on killing Garrosh when not only is there nothing to suggest that the Horde war machine will suddenly stop if Garrosh is killed, but why are they so focused on the Orcs at all? The press release mentions the Horde getting upset at Garrosh's "atrocities" but Garrosh ISN'T RESPONSIBLE for the worst atrocities the Horde has committed. That would be the Forsaken. So why is he getting blamed for things that the Horde has done largely AGAINST his commands?

Third off, I don't see how this can end favourably for the Alliance. Yes, Garrosh ends up killed (although he'll likely be killed by the Horde in canon) but we know from a meta-perspective that the Alliance can't actually take any territory as a result. Which means that even in the Alliance version of events, the Horde is still going to come out of it better and the Alliance not so much. Gameplay mechanics dictate that the Alliance can't demand that the Horde withdraw from Lordaeron or Ashenvale or anything. So best case scenario for the Alliance is that we attack Orgrimmar, kill Garrosh, pat ourselves on the back and waltz out while the Forsaken blight some more villages. The Horde gets to keep all of their territories but everything is "magically made better" because Thrall, the killer of Deathwing, is now firmly allied with the Horde again (by the way, when's Tirion gonna come back to the Alliance?)

Fourth, this is still the Horde's story. Things occurring within the Horde and among Horde members are still in complete control of the story. The Alliance is still reactionary to a fault and is at best a vehicle for continuing the Horde storyline. Killing Garrosh is something that's SUPERFICIALLY good for the Alliance, but as far as actual tangible benefit? There's none. It's an artificial way of restoring the status quo. The Horde gets to keep Lordaeron, all the blame for their atrocities gets conveniently shifted onto one Orc who they then subsequently kill which "absolves them of their role in it forever."

This is something that's supposed to make Alliance players feel cool and awesome, but ultimately, World of Warcraft is still Horde-town.
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  #20  
Old 03-19-2012, 12:38 AM
Leviathon Leviathon is offline

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My feelings on this are...surprisingly mixed. In fact, I'm not sure I'm very happy about this because there are so many ways that it could be fucked up.

First off, I don't like the idea that the only way for the Alliance to beat the Horde is if the Horde collapses on itself. Yes, Second War and all that, but not only is the Horde in World of Warcraft logistically very different from the Horde in the Second War, but I don't like the idea that the Alliance just suddenly can lay siege to Orgrimmar despite an obvious lack of any military build up. How do they get enough forces to lay siege to Orgrimmar TO Orgimmar without a single supply line leading to Orgrimmar? How does victory on Pandaria equate to suddenly being able to besiege Orgrimmar? It feels like the Alliance is only allowed to win when the Horde LETS them win.

Second off, this is exactly what I was afraid of when it comes to directing the Alliance's wrath. Why is the Alliance so focused on killing Garrosh when not only is there nothing to suggest that the Horde war machine will suddenly stop if Garrosh is killed, but why are they so focused on the Orcs at all? The press release mentions the Horde getting upset at Garrosh's "atrocities" but Garrosh ISN'T RESPONSIBLE for the worst atrocities the Horde has committed. That would be the Forsaken. So why is he getting blamed for things that the Horde has done largely AGAINST his commands?

Third off, I don't see how this can end favourably for the Alliance. Yes, Garrosh ends up killed (although he'll likely be killed by the Horde in canon) but we know from a meta-perspective that the Alliance can't actually take any territory as a result. Which means that even in the Alliance version of events, the Horde is still going to come out of it better and the Alliance not so much. Gameplay mechanics dictate that the Alliance can't demand that the Horde withdraw from Lordaeron or Ashenvale or anything. So best case scenario for the Alliance is that we attack Orgrimmar, kill Garrosh, pat ourselves on the back and waltz out while the Forsaken blight some more villages. The Horde gets to keep all of their territories but everything is "magically made better" because Thrall, the killer of Deathwing, is now firmly allied with the Horde again (by the way, when's Tirion gonna come back to the Alliance?)

Fourth, this is still the Horde's story. Things occurring within the Horde and among Horde members are still in complete control of the story. The Alliance is still reactionary to a fault and is at best a vehicle for continuing the Horde storyline. Killing Garrosh is something that's SUPERFICIALLY good for the Alliance, but as far as actual tangible benefit? There's none. It's an artificial way of restoring the status quo. The Horde gets to keep Lordaeron, all the blame for their atrocities gets conveniently shifted onto one Orc who they then subsequently kill which "absolves them of their role in it forever."

This is something that's supposed to make Alliance players feel cool and awesome, but ultimately, World of Warcraft is still Horde-town.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:11 AM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
First off, I don't like the idea that the only way for the Alliance to beat the Horde is if the Horde collapses on itself. Yes, Second War and all that, but not only is the Horde in World of Warcraft logistically very different from the Horde in the Second War, but I don't like the idea that the Alliance just suddenly can lay siege to Orgrimmar despite an obvious lack of any military build up. How do they get enough forces to lay siege to Orgrimmar TO Orgimmar without a single supply line leading to Orgrimmar? How does victory on Pandaria equate to suddenly being able to besiege Orgrimmar? It feels like the Alliance is only allowed to win when the Horde LETS them win.
Well, if we assume that the Alliance won a decisive victory in Ashenvale (arguably we did only if we cherry pick the phased outcomes), then it isn't that much of a stretch to send in forces through Ashenvale.

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Second off, this is exactly what I was afraid of when it comes to directing the Alliance's wrath. Why is the Alliance so focused on killing Garrosh when not only is there nothing to suggest that the Horde war machine will suddenly stop if Garrosh is killed, but why are they so focused on the Orcs at all? The press release mentions the Horde getting upset at Garrosh's "atrocities" but Garrosh ISN'T RESPONSIBLE for the worst atrocities the Horde has committed. That would be the Forsaken. So why is he getting blamed for things that the Horde has done largely AGAINST his commands?
As mentioned, he's probably going to do nasty stuff in Pandaria.

However, I only hope that perhaps Sylvanas will be handed over to the Alliance as part of a new peace treaty on the part of Thrall, along with withdrawal from Ashenvale/Hillsbrad/Gilneas/maybe Silverpine as goodwill gestures.

Quote:
Third off, I don't see how this can end favourably for the Alliance. Yes, Garrosh ends up killed (although he'll likely be killed by the Horde in canon) but we know from a meta-perspective that the Alliance can't actually take any territory as a result. Which means that even in the Alliance version of events, the Horde is still going to come out of it better and the Alliance not so much. Gameplay mechanics dictate that the Alliance can't demand that the Horde withdraw from Lordaeron or Ashenvale or anything. So best case scenario for the Alliance is that we attack Orgrimmar, kill Garrosh, pat ourselves on the back and waltz out while the Forsaken blight some more villages. The Horde gets to keep all of their territories but everything is "magically made better" because Thrall, the killer of Deathwing, is now firmly allied with the Horde again (by the way, when's Tirion gonna come back to the Alliance?)
In theory the Alliance could regain those territories, but not have the results shown in the game world. Much like how the player never finds out about any peace between Alliance and Horde on the tail end of vanilla (Shifting Sands II is when I assume the first proper peace treaty post-WCIII occurred) and throughout BC and Wrath (up until the Battle for the Undercity). And of course much like how one who only plays the game would be surprised there was a post-LK peace.

Quote:
Fourth, this is still the Horde's story. Things occurring within the Horde and among Horde members are still in complete control of the story. The Alliance is still reactionary to a fault and is at best a vehicle for continuing the Horde storyline. Killing Garrosh is something that's SUPERFICIALLY good for the Alliance, but as far as actual tangible benefit? There's none. It's an artificial way of restoring the status quo. The Horde gets to keep Lordaeron, all the blame for their atrocities gets conveniently shifted onto one Orc who they then subsequently kill which "absolves them of their role in it forever."
Unfortunately that may be the case.

Quote:
This is something that's supposed to make Alliance players feel cool and awesome, but ultimately, World of Warcraft is still Horde-town.
I don't quite agree, but I don't quite disagree either.

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Turns out that Lilian Voss is a boss in Scholomance and the encounter with have something to do with saving her soul.

I suspect that she's being groomed to replace Sylvanas.

I'm curious to see how she'll react to Alliance players.
Maybe we'll finally get a canonical "Scarlet Crusade is friendly toward Alliance" confirmation (as if the messenger in the Cathedral basement wasn't confirmation enough *grumble*).
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2) You can't break even.
3) You can't leave the game.

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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:00 AM
Gortrash Gortrash is offline

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Second off, this is exactly what I was afraid of when it comes to directing the Alliance's wrath. Why is the Alliance so focused on killing Garrosh when not only is there nothing to suggest that the Horde war machine will suddenly stop if Garrosh is killed, but why are they so focused on the Orcs at all? The press release mentions the Horde getting upset at Garrosh's "atrocities" but Garrosh ISN'T RESPONSIBLE for the worst atrocities the Horde has committed. That would be the Forsaken. So why is he getting blamed for things that the Horde has done largely AGAINST his commands?
Maybe you're missing the part where there's a whole expansion worth of story and character development which explain how and Garrosh becomes increasingly vicious, violent and aggressive and why he needs to go down? Why do you take into account only the events that happened so far?

Also, how come your jimmies are so rustles every time there's anything involving the Horde? Seems to me you'll never be satisfied no matter what Blizzard do. They just gave you the chance to be involved in Garrosh's killing and you're still complaining about it.

Last edited by Gortrash; 03-19-2012 at 02:05 AM..
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:09 AM
Fojar Fojar is offline
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Maybe you're missing the part where there's a whole expansion worth of story and character development which explain how and Garrosh becomes increasingly vicious, violent and aggressive and why he needs to go down? Why do you take into account only the events that happened so far?

Also, how come your jimmies are so rustles every time there's anything involving the Horde? Seems to me you'll never be satisfied no matter what Blizzard do. They just gave you the chance to be involved in Garrosh's killing and you're still complaining about it.
Because, as Volkrin said in another thread, the Alliance isn't part of this to be part of the plot. They're there so that they can wave their flag around and go "We're here too!"

This is still the Horde's story, and we now know that Alliance players won't even get to kill Garrosh anyway. Thrall is gonna kill Garrosh because that's how neutrality works.

The fact that I've never really held the intense loathing of Garrosh that I have for Sylvanas and the Forsaken is probably a contributing factor, but don't get me wrong. I'm still happy to go into Orgrimmar and hand Garrosh his rear on a blue-and-gold platter, but as far as tangible benefit to the Alliance from both an in-universe and out of universe perspective goes, we don't get much out of this. We don't even get bragging rights because the Horde fights Garrosh as well.

Again, the end result of all this is the restoration of the status quo. A status quo which was shitty for the Alliance.
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  #24  
Old 03-19-2012, 12:56 AM
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With this new MOP lore,which anyone who has played WoW predicted 2 years ago,Blizzard will piss off both the Horde and the Alliance players.Cataclysm at least piss off only one player base. How they manage to do everything so bad,predictable and bland. This Is just facanating.
I love it.
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Old 03-19-2012, 12:59 AM
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Turns out that Lilian Voss is a boss in Scholomance and the encounter with have something to do with saving her soul.

I suspect that she's being groomed to replace Sylvanas.

I'm curious to see how she'll react to Alliance players.
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