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  #6076  
Old 07-18-2018, 09:10 AM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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For anyone that's done the Island Expedition content extensively, how mirrored are the teams? Do they have a certain A.I. mechanic that mirrors the same as the team on the opposite faction?

Looking at it, I would imagine the scheme works like this but someone can correct me on it if I'm not 100% right:

Briona's Buccaneers / Greenbelly Raiders: Pirate team
Auric's Angels / The Blazing Sunhawks: Spellcaster team
Light's Vengeance / Warbraves: Objective-focused team
Razak's Roughriders / Gazlowe's Greasemonkeys: Engineer team
The Wolfpack / The Headhunters: Aggressive team that hunts players
Riftrunners / The Highborne: Aggressive magic warrior team
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  #6077  
Old 07-18-2018, 09:36 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finarfin View Post
Wait, so what's being released today (or tomorrow for the EU servers) in the pre-patch?
Just systems. The first week is for players to get used to the class changes and to find critical bugs. There's no real content this week. Expect more maintenance periods, lots of restarts and a ton of hotfixes over the next days.
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  #6078  
Old 07-18-2018, 09:41 AM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Just systems. The first week is for players to get used to the class changes and to find critical bugs. There's no real content this week. Expect more maintenance periods, lots of restarts and a ton of hotfixes over the next days.
I thought that was the sort of thing you would use a PTR for?
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  #6079  
Old 07-18-2018, 09:56 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
I thought that was the sort of thing you would use a PTR for?
PTR and Beta have a tiny fraction of the player base. You a lot of the bugs there, but there's always undetected issues. Once you deploy your patch for hundreds of servers and millions of players, you start to find thousands of issues, which need to be sorted and solved by priority.

The very existance of prepatch is to get issues ahead of the expansion release. The prepatch events are there to give people something to do while waiting and to draw new and old players.

Even with it, there's no certainty that all critical issues will have been found and solved when expansion hits. Remember MoP and WoD bottleneck quests for Alliance, for instance.

That's just how things are in software development. Or any other engineering, even. The more people are using something, the more issues will be found. Software is just more complex because there's thousands of tools encoded, and each of them may present some problems.
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  #6080  
Old 07-18-2018, 01:20 PM
Finarfin Finarfin is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Just systems. The first week is for players to get used to the class changes and to find critical bugs. There's no real content this week. Expect more maintenance periods, lots of restarts and a ton of hotfixes over the next days.
Ah, ok. For some reason I was under the impression that the Burning of Teldrassil quests were also being unlocked today. My bad there. Thanks for the clarification.
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  #6081  
Old 07-19-2018, 03:35 PM
Finarfin Finarfin is online now

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  #6082  
Old 07-19-2018, 06:09 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Credit where it's due: these regular live Q&As where the developers can just ramble and give insight into the things behind the scenes that are causing issues are a step in the right direction in regards to how they are approaching and responding to game play feedback.
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  #6083  
Old 07-19-2018, 06:14 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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The QA addressed many points I was interested in:
  • the lack of new talent rows
  • Azerite traits
  • 2h Frost DK
  • Mage Tower in BFA

I rate it 9/10
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  #6084  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:15 AM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Tidesage Jaina?
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  #6085  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:11 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is online now

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I'd been wondering since the alpha why Jaina's flagship used a Kul Tiran model, and had resigned myself that it was just an artistic choice to use a new art asset to stand out. Now we not only have an explanation for it, but a particularly chilling one as well.
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  #6086  
Old 07-23-2018, 11:51 AM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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I was hoping for more lore, but was grateful for what we got. It's a beautiful piece of art.
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  #6087  
Old 07-23-2018, 12:30 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Why is it Blizzard now seems determined to retcon that Daelin was 100% right in all his actions when they said he was wrong in the first place?
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  #6088  
Old 07-23-2018, 12:49 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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The issue is that different people (and sometimes the same people at different times) will have different opinions.
Blizzard is better off letting each character push it's interpretation instead of providing a force universal narrative.
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  #6089  
Old 07-23-2018, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mungo View Post
Why is it Blizzard now seems determined to retcon that Daelin was 100% right in all his actions when they said he was wrong in the first place?
Because he was right.
Not in principle, but in this particular instance.

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The issue is that different people (and sometimes the same people at different times) will have different opinions.
Blizzard is better off letting each character push it's interpretation instead of providing a force universal narrative.
Yes! Leaving the facts to be interpreted is way better than preaching the absolute truth (so long as the facts aren't fabricated to be different to each witness).
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  #6090  
Old 07-23-2018, 02:40 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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The problem lies when the community still keeps looking for universal narratives. And then when stuff "contradict" itself (stuff that isn't really universal truths), they go on full rage mode.
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  #6091  
Old 07-23-2018, 03:23 PM
Royalpimp Royalpimp is offline

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The problem lies in Blizzard's track history, which is making players assume that there's a universal narrative because that's pretty much most of what we've been given over the years. If you want to look at it differently that's your choice, doesn't make you any more clever for it.
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And Lordaeron

ffs I'm the only one who cares aren't I
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  #6092  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:02 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royalpimp View Post
The problem lies in Blizzard's track history, which is making players assume that there's a universal narrative because that's pretty much most of what we've been given over the years. If you want to look at it differently that's your choice, doesn't make you any more clever for it.
We've had different in-universe perspectives for quite a few years already.
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  #6093  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:04 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is online now

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There was a comment on Blizzard Watch saying the Jaina short should have been BfA's intro cinematic instead of the Battle for Lordaeron, and I have to admit, that sounds like it would easily have been one of the greatest expansion intro cinematics. Sure, it wouldn't fit BfA as it is now (it would have to be an expansion singularly focused on Kul Tiras) but it would have been great. Jaina's raising of Daelin's ship could even be framed as a parallel to Arthas raising Sindragosa in Wrath's cinematic... That has some worrying implications now that I think about it...
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  #6094  
Old 07-23-2018, 04:39 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
There was a comment on Blizzard Watch saying the Jaina short should have been BfA's intro cinematic instead of the Battle for Lordaeron, and I have to admit, that sounds like it would easily have been one of the greatest expansion intro cinematics. Sure, it wouldn't fit BfA as it is now (it would have to be an expansion singularly focused on Kul Tiras) but it would have been great. Jaina's raising of Daelin's ship could even be framed as a parallel to Arthas raising Sindragosa in Wrath's cinematic... That has some worrying implications now that I think about it...
It would be Alliance bias. And everyone would go "I knew it! Jaina is the villain!"
Without the war premise, Jaina's animated short would appear as she finally falling to darkness in the name of vengeance.

---------------------------

SPECULATION:

After seeing the Jaina short, BTW, I'm thinking Sylvanas will also explore her past, by making a paralel between Arthas rampaging throught Quel'thalas and Sylvanas doing the same in Darkshore. Sylvanas will see a reflex of herself in Delaryn Summermoon. And, like Arthas did to her, she will murder the sentinel. Then Teldrassil go up in flames and, for a brief moment, she will go "what have I become", only to steel herself and say that there's no going back.
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  #6095  
Old 07-23-2018, 05:26 PM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Gotta love them pissing all over what Made Jaina so good.

Her willingness to see the greater good in things and stick by her desicion.

But no, gotta make the Usuperer Admiral look good in retrospect.

It's a great cinematic, but It's just another "Jaina can never be right." in full force.
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  #6096  
Old 07-23-2018, 05:31 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
Gotta love them pissing all over what Made Jaina so good.

Her willingness to see the greater good in things and stick by her desicion.

But no, gotta make the Usuperer Admiral look good in retrospect.

It's a great cinematic, but It's just another "Jaina can never be right." in full force.
Sorry, but Admiral Proudmoore was right all along.
Thrall was always the exception. And he gave up.
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  #6097  
Old 07-23-2018, 05:34 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is online now

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
It would be Alliance bias. And everyone would go "I knew it! Jaina is the villain!"
Without the war premise, Jaina's animated short would appear as she finally falling to darkness in the name of vengeance.
As I said, it would have to be a fundamentally different type of expansion, probably something akin to an Alliance version of WoD with the different Kul Tiran houses as the "warlords" (which wouldn't be much of a stretch given every house except Proudmoore is evil anyway). Which I think would have been an interesting one.
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  #6098  
Old 07-23-2018, 07:31 PM
Cacofonix Cacofonix is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenixhart View Post
Gotta love them pissing all over what Made Jaina so good.

Her willingness to see the greater good in things and stick by her desicion.

But no, gotta make the Usuperer Admiral look good in retrospect.

It's a great cinematic, but It's just another "Jaina can never be right." in full force.
WC3 Jaina was Anduin before there was Anduin. A traitor to her family, country, and species who alongside Coward Uther abandoned Arthas when he could have used used help so that she could follow the advice of a raving hobo. I see little here that was ruined.

And Daelin was hardly an usurper. Jaina was a citizen of Kul'tiras using Kul'tiran troops for her vacation. The Alliance was at war with Thrall's Neo-Nazis so Daelin was under no obligation to treat it as other than an enemy stronghold.
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  #6099  
Old 07-23-2018, 07:54 PM
ARM3481 ARM3481 is offline

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Jaina was a citizen of Dalaran, acting under Antonidas' final orders to save as many of those refugees as she could and take them somewhere safe.

Daelin showed up and said "fuck that, nobody gets to be safe, it's everyone's duty to fight and die for my revenge."

Like so many of the petty playerbase who insist that their leaders should chuck countless soldiers into the meat grinder for the sake of faction pride ('cuz who really cares about footmen or grunts? It's not like soldiers are people, right?), he didn't care about saving lives. He only cared about killing orcs, even if that meant throwing away human lives to do it.

But we're in a faction war now, which means he's suddenly 100% right because moral and intellectual degeneration has become the rule of the day, both in-game and out.

Last edited by ARM3481; 07-23-2018 at 08:50 PM..
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  #6100  
Old 07-23-2018, 10:00 PM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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I don’t get it. How are people seeing this as more than a point of view piece? Honestly I get Raid Boss Jaina vibes from it. And she’d make an excellent Raid Boss at this point. Not unlike her father, Jaina comes across as psychologically damaged, and with good reason. The Horde should fear her. They created her.

Oh, and ARM, footmen and grunts are pixels, not people, and were expressly created to fight for our amusement. So, yeah, we like it when they do that. Granted, in-game characters should have fictional reasons for sending soldiers to their deaths, such as vendettas, a desire to pre-empt bloodshed, emotional scarring, etc. Stuff that makes for a good narrative. But all that is in fact fiction, fabricated to create conflict of both internal and external nature, just to keep things interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
Sorry, but Admiral Proudmoore was right all along.
Thrall was always the exception. And he gave up.
Admiral Proudmoore was psychologically damaged by the death of his son, just like Jaina is damaged by the destruction of Theramore. Her scene in Before the Storm makes this quite obvious. She knows she’s not in a healthy place, and rather than get help, she’s letting it dictate her actions. And you know what? That’s great.

Oh, and calling Thrall the exception is ignoring other orcish characters.

Last edited by Menel'dirion; 07-23-2018 at 10:15 PM..
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