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  #4826  
Old 04-10-2018, 01:41 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Feltongue View Post
I don't get your point then. Shit like Tarren Mill and Astranaar were a thing because escalating world PvP on PvP servers in Vanilla but apparently you're talking about players killing quest npcs on PvE servers in later xpacs and therefore World PvP has issues?
Did you just take the chance to tell a very boring and very wordy bragging anecdote?
No, I had two points.

First: You can like World PvP and acknowledge that it has problems and that it needs reform.

Second: I believe World PvP's issue is that there aren't strong incentives for defenders (due to fatigue and not being able to drive out attackers who can just sit on a flying mount when things stop going their way), which in turn just leads to much of it being stronger players preventing far weaker players from playing the game. I used my personal experience to explain why I believe that.

Is sharding the right answer? I don't know. I would worry about the sharded areas becoming stagnant, especially if those matters aren't looked at. But unless something has drastically changed since WoD, the system does need some changes.
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  #4827  
Old 04-10-2018, 02:15 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
That's more than a little unfair.

I loved world PvP, but mine was a specific experience. When my points were done for the week and I was in no danger of falling behind in gear and when I had felt I had ended a week on a good note, I'd go back to Darnassus for RP. Cenarion Circle shared cross realm zones with WRA and occasionally Moon Guard, so there was a good, sizeable community to interact with (probably the only one of decent size). Towards the tail end of WoD, city raids were a thing. I had a policy of responding to pings, even if I had to break off a session. Most people understood, some people didn't.

These were fun events. We had a core group of defenders who would normally be able to stop most attackers, including most "For the Horde" raids. After a while though, it got to the point where people got sick of it. The group of defenders shrunk and shrunk because, while it was fun the first few times, people had other things they wanted to do, and there was really no reward for it.

Defending smaller towns was worse. Sometimes there would be a group that I would have to strategically address, but most of the time I would arrive, trash the attacker, and watch them rez and mount up. There they would sit, hovering, waiting for me to get bored and leave. It got to the point where I would unstealth and stand out in the open to try and get them to attack me. Usually they would do no such thing. Fifteen minutes later, after I had left, world defense would be screaming again. If I do come back, I know the same thing will repeat. If I don't, lowbies can't quest, but I also can't spend hours being a maid because someone wants to have a power fantasy at someone else's expense.

I don't know how you fix these problems or if sharding is the best way, but acknowledging that there are problems is not the same as hating PvP. I always thought this problem would have been much better if flying wasn't possible in pre-BC zones. But, that's not a change anyone is likely to implement.
Solution: don't sign up for War Mode and then you'll never be bothered by people murdering faction questgivers. Or murdering you. Or both.
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  #4828  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:10 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Krainz View Post
Solution: don't sign up for War Mode and then you'll never be bothered by people murdering faction questgivers. Or murdering you. Or both.
If yet-unannounced matters go my way enough to bring me back, then I will look forward to war mode. That's not what I'm discussing, however.
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  #4829  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:23 PM
Marthen Marthen is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
If yet-unannounced matters go my way enough to bring me back, then I will look forward to war mode. That's not what I'm discussing, however.
But your initial entry quoted a post that was. Amidst a discussion that was.
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  #4830  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:36 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Marthen View Post
But your initial entry quoted a post that was. Amidst a discussion that was.
Looking at that again, I see where I screwed up. Here I thought we were just talking about sharding.

Embarrassing, but fair catch. Sorry for the diversion there.
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  #4831  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:41 PM
Feltongue Feltongue is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
No, I had two points.

First: You can like World PvP and acknowledge that it has problems and that it needs reform.

Second: I believe World PvP's issue is that there aren't strong incentives for defenders (due to fatigue and not being able to drive out attackers who can just sit on a flying mount when things stop going their way), which in turn just leads to much of it being stronger players preventing far weaker players from playing the game. I used my personal experience to explain why I believe that.

Is sharding the right answer? I don't know. I would worry about the sharded areas becoming stagnant, especially if those matters aren't looked at. But unless something has drastically changed since WoD, the system does need some changes.
At last something to actually work with.

I did? And my point regarding PvE was aimed at nerfs to abilities that might be too strong in PvP affecting PvE. Which is mentioned wonky decisions, yet they're not a huge deal unless you raided competitively.

Because turtling is boring and dumb. No point sitting in the open when the others just crawl behind guards. If they incentive fighting over objectives, this would be less of an issue. But an incentive is apparently bad.

We have cool things like Reddit and shit where stuff can be organized. And no carebear will get his panty twisted.

Edit: You get my original point? No reason to get your panties in a twist when War Mode just removes you from the PvE world?

Last edited by Feltongue; 04-10-2018 at 03:47 PM..
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  #4832  
Old 04-10-2018, 03:53 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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@Feltongue

In regards to your first paragraph, and as Marthen pointed out, I didn't do the proper diligence in assessing what I was replying to. Apologies for that mistake on my part.

As to your second, my comments on defense incentives again related to problems with non-sharded world PvP. That being said, stronger guards wouldn't have been the answer in that case. Some kind of assurance that kicking attackers out would have meant something on the other hand would have been.
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  #4833  
Old 04-10-2018, 06:20 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Well that is disappointing.
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  #4834  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:11 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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It’s funny that, in the end, we got as allied races, just the core races of each faction.

Humans, dwarves, elves, draenei
Orcs, trolls, tauren, elves
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  #4835  
Old 04-11-2018, 12:58 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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That color palette is horrible.
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  #4836  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:16 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Geyarah is in the latest build, she is a bald orc, brown skin so probably frostwolf, since afaik no tatoos.

she is wearing the heritage armour (brown)
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  #4837  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:26 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deicide View Post
It’s funny that, in the end, we got as allied races, just the core races of each faction.

Humans, dwarves, elves, draenei
Orcs, trolls, tauren, elves
Draenei are core?
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  #4838  
Old 04-11-2018, 02:50 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Draenei are core?
Gnomes I guess didn't command enough respect.... which is a shame.
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  #4839  
Old 04-11-2018, 03:31 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
Gnomes I guess didn't command enough respect.... which is a shame.
But somehow Night Elves are core.
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  #4840  
Old 04-11-2018, 03:39 PM
Deicide Deicide is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Draenei are core?
It’s a little stretchy, but draenei have, over time, been way more important to the Alliance than the gnomes.
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  #4841  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:00 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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It’s a little stretchy, but draenei have, over time, been way more important to the Alliance than the gnomes.
Have they really though? Most Draenei content has been neutral and I can't think of anything they're done strictly out of Alliance interest that compares to Gnomes helping out in the Third War despite their own homeland turning into a cesspit or Worgen stopping the Horde from gaining a power-up that would have spelled trouble for the Alliance.
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  #4842  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:29 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
But somehow Night Elves are core.
Yeah, that felt strange to me too.
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  #4843  
Old 04-11-2018, 04:35 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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I'm kind of surprised that that's the racial armor for the Kul Tirans. I figured that Kul Tiras plate armor looking set datamined a while back was it.

Also hope there's some sort of jacket outfit for non-KTs.
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  #4844  
Old 04-11-2018, 05:28 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyalin V. Raintree View Post
Yeah, that felt strange to me too.
You don't do jokes.
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  #4845  
Old 04-11-2018, 05:40 PM
Kyalin V. Raintree Kyalin V. Raintree is offline

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Originally Posted by Noitora View Post
You don't do jokes.
I'm probably reading a bit much into the meaning of you missing mine.
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  #4846  
Old 04-11-2018, 08:49 PM
Joeygiggles Joeygiggles is offline

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Think thats a nice set for Kul'Tirans just make the jacket a little less blue and more green and then add something to the shoulders like this...(found on reddit)
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  #4847  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:01 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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Hopefully a build tomorrow.
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  #4848  
Old 04-11-2018, 09:52 PM
Omacron Omacron is offline


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
Have they really though? Most Draenei content has been neutral and I can't think of anything they're done strictly out of Alliance interest that compares to Gnomes helping out in the Third War despite their own homeland turning into a cesspit or Worgen stopping the Horde from gaining a power-up that would have spelled trouble for the Alliance.
The Draenei comprised a significant portion of Alliance content in TBC in addition to its neutral content, though they admittedly sat most of the next four expacts out. They then became the majority of Alliance content in WoD and have maintained a heavy presence in Legion, even if most of it is neutral.

By contrast, the gnomes were a minor presence in WCII, not even sending Mekkatorque to the Alliance's meetings and instead letting a politician from Ironforge argue for both of them. They sat out WCIII for understandable reasons, had only one settlement that was a dungeon in Vanilla, had one town in TBC and a small questline in Borean Tundra about them. The gnomes are eternal sidekicks and never really take a commanding role in any storylines, unfortunately.
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  #4849  
Old 04-12-2018, 05:58 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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Ok, you can kinda make that argument for Gnomes. Just goes to show we need some more gnomish content. However, I really see no way that Elves are more “core Horde” than undead (and I’m an Elf fan). The Horde has been working with the undead in one form or another since Warcraft: Orcs and Human (with 1 extremely brief period where both pursued separate interests in Warcraft III). I would argue that The Forsaken have been the second most active and prolific part of the Horde after Orcs. Oh yeah and Sylvanas is Warchief.

Did I read something earlier about Azshara being the Gul’dan of this expansion? I wonder if that means Gul’dan in Legion (which honestly doesn’t make as much sense to me) or Gul’dan in WoD, setting to bridge us into the next expansion. If so, next Expansion is underground. Final patch of BfA will have 4 unlockable Allied Races, including variants on undead, Gnomish , Goblins and Worgen. Next expansion will have Naga defectors at launch and will involve going deep into Azeroth by see but more substantially underground.
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  #4850  
Old 04-12-2018, 07:47 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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Originally Posted by Menel'dirion View Post
Did I read something earlier about Azshara being the Gul’dan of this expansion? I wonder if that means Gul’dan in Legion (which honestly doesn’t make as much sense to me) or Gul’dan in WoD, setting to bridge us into the next expansion.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...ws-WoW-History

It was already stated at BlizzCon that we'd confront Azshara at some point during BfA (http://warcraft.blizzplanet.com/blog...-transcript/12).

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There are some that we have heard a lot from in Legion. You know… some Tidestone related stuff… and so, Yes! Before all is set and done, in Battle for Azeroth, we will be facing off against Queen Azshara.
Arguably, this already suggested that Azshara would be the final boss of the first tier of BfA. At least, that's how I interpreted it when I was watching the panel at the time, though maybe I was just reading too much into it.
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