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View Poll Results: Should prostitution be legal?
Yes 37 66.07%
No 5 8.93%
Indifferent 14 25.00%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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  #276  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:41 PM
Slowpokeking
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And not everything is worth not trying because of the problems other people have had. Everything humans do with regards to things like this have an upside and a downside. Human trafficking is a problem everywhere, and while it does apply to the sex trade it's not the only one it applies to. Some countries need to find ways to deal with it better whether prostitution or the activities around it are legal there or not.
Well a important part of Sweden's law is to punish the johns, which made buying sex services illegal
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People lives a ruined everyday for rather mundane things as well. People's lives are ruined by various legal substance abuses, that doesn't mean that we ban those substances.
If it's too harmful, we ban it, like drugs. Prostitution is not much different.


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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
And I've been saying I think pretty much every time I've replied to you over this that we should learn from their mistakes. What did you not get about that?
I know buddy I'm sorry, but what I'm saying is we need a plan right? I'm not trying to be stubborn or annoying. I just think we can put this thread to a deeper level by looking at the facts and think of better ways.


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Originally Posted by Grimtale View Post
And guess what? They'll be more than entitled to quit the job if they don't like it, since now that it is legal they won't be under the tyranny of a pimp.
I highly suggest you to take a look at the reports from Germany, Netherlands and Nevada, I already quoted some in this thread.

Last edited by Slowpokeking; 05-29-2012 at 08:43 PM..
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  #277  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:44 PM
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Lust is the excessive hunger for sex, not just normal horniness.

Also, our sex obsessed culture disgusts me, because it lacks restraint and responsibility.
The only difference between our culture now and recent culture (as in VERY recent culture, like pre-1960s) is that we're more OPEN about sexuality. Humans have always been obsessed about sexuality. They just had to do it in the dark before.

I agree an unhealthy obsession with sex, individually and culturally, is bad. It's like anything, you can have too much of something good. The problem is that most people who rail against it go to the extreme of completely supressing it instead of finding a healthy balance. That's just as, if not more harmful.
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  #278  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
Well a important part of Sweden's law is to punish the johns, which made buying sex services illegal
.
That doesn't really contradict anything I said.

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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
If it's too harmful, we ban it, like drugs. Prostitution is not much different.
Alchohol can be pretty damned harmful, yet the last time that was banned it caused more problems than it solved. Cigarrettes are also pretty harmful, but those are still legal as well. Guns are harmful, yet still perfectly legal to own in a number of countries.

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I know buddy I'm sorry, but what I'm saying is we need a plan right? I'm not trying to be stubborn or annoying. I just think we can put this thread to a deeper level by looking at the facts and think of better ways.
All this thread was asking was did people think it should be legal or not. When countries get around to doing it, they need a plan. We here do not need a plan, we just need to express out opinion on if it should be legal or not.
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  #279  
Old 05-29-2012, 08:57 PM
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That doesn't really contradict anything I said.
What I'm trying to say is at least right now, those who ban it in a reasonable way got a better result than those who legalized it.


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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
Alchohol can be pretty damned harmful, yet the last time that was banned it caused more problems than it solved. Cigarrettes are also pretty harmful, but those are still legal as well.

Yeah but we saw legalize prostitution caused more problems in those nations right? We ban organ trade also because it will go out of control.


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Originally Posted by Garotar View Post
All this thread was asking was did people think it should be legal or not. When countries get around to doing it, they need a plan. We here do not need a plan, we just need to express out opinion on if it should be legal or not.
Yeah and right now I can see it just stop here. Some people think we will make it better. Some think the experiment is already failed and not worth to continue or it's a wrong way.
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  #280  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:01 PM
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You're going in the bag too, new guy.
How exactly am I still qualified as a "new guy" still?
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  #281  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:02 PM
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How exactly am I still qualified as a "new guy" still?
Shut up and get in the bag, new guy.
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  #282  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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At least people notice me now. ;-;
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  #283  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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The only difference between our culture now and recent culture (as in VERY recent culture, like pre-1960s) is that we're more OPEN about sexuality. Humans have always been obsessed about sexuality. They just had to do it in the dark before.

I agree an unhealthy obsession with sex, individually and culturally, is bad. It's like anything, you can have too much of something good. The problem is that most people who rail against it go to the extreme of completely supressing it instead of finding a healthy balance. That's just as, if not more harmful.
Recently it's become more the ability of a person to broadcast things semi-anonymously via the Internet, I think. Society has become more open in general thanks to it; there's a lot more transparency in science, for example, now that people can network independent projects with people across the globe. Like that amateur rocket launch into space, for instance.

In this case, people have always been into weird shit, now they can actually communicate with others who are also into weird shit.
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  #284  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
What I'm trying to say is at least right now, those who ban it in a reasonable way got a better result than those who legalized it.
Again, that doesn't really contradict what I said.

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Yeah but we saw legalize prostitution caused more problems in those nations right? We ban organ trade also because it will go out of control.
And those problems should be solved. Those problem though do not make me think we should keep prostitution illegal, there just needs to be a different approach than what some of those other places have taken. Why? Because I don't think it's fair to keep it illegal for those who either want to take part it in because they genuinely like the work. It's not up to me to tell them what they should do with their lives when what they do is rather harmless. There are harmful things around it (human trafficking, rape, murder), and those should be dealt with, but there's nothing inherently harmful about prostitution.

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Yeah and right now I can see it just stop here. Some people think we will make it better. Some think the experiment is already failed and not worth to continue or it's a wrong way.
And those people are perfectly fine to have their opinion. You don't seem to realise that pulling out the various problems other places have had is not really changing people's opinions on this, nor is your continued arguing of the matter.
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  #285  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:14 PM
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And those people are perfectly fine to have their opinion. You don't seem to realise that pulling out the various problems other places have had is not really changing people's opinions on this, nor is your continued arguing of the matter.
I have no problem if you want to keep your opinion. I'm just stating my own idea to people. I think prostitution is connected with these problems too tightly and harmed too many people. So ban it will be better than legalize it, especially when we got good model. Usually there is no perfect solution, sometimes there is no good choice, only bad and worse.
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  #286  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Slowpokeking View Post
I have no problem if you want to keep your opinion. I'm just stating my own idea to people.
And to be blunt, people get your idea at this point. Repeating it to everyone who doesn't agree with you is why people are calling you annoying in this topic.
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  #287  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:20 PM
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And to be blunt, people get your idea at this point. Repeating it to everyone who doesn't agree with you is why people are calling you annoying in this topic.
OK, I got it, thx.

But I also did do a lot of research over this thing and give. I will try to find more info and examples if needed.

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  #288  
Old 05-29-2012, 09:21 PM
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At least people notice me now. ;-;
It's funny because I joined up later than you 0o So technically I should be new guy.

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Recently it's become more the ability of a person to broadcast things semi-anonymously via the Internet, I think. Society has become more open in general thanks to it; there's a lot more transparency in science, for example, now that people can network independent projects with people across the globe. Like that amateur rocket launch into space, for instance.

In this case, people have always been into weird shit, now they can actually communicate with others who are also into weird shit.
I think that's only part of it. A big part of it these days, but not the genesis of it.

I believe it's more just to do with the fact we have a generation who went through the sexual revolution, and have just lived with it as part of their lives, so society is more open about it as a result.
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  #289  
Old 05-30-2012, 05:36 AM
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Bolvar did raise a good point that probably no one here wants someone they care about to engage in such a profession but ultimately I believe it is a question of free will, and not our place to forbid or allow.

In essence imagine if we had the technology to perfectly monitor and regulate a person's life and used it to prevent them from committing all sin/crime, then what we would do is take away their Free Will that God gave to us all, it would make life meaningless and abolish all goodness from the world because it is defined as abstaining from sin, in truth it would be the biggest spit in His face you can imagine.

So if some unfortunate relative of yours does become a drug addled prostitute you do have the right to help or condemn them, but to do as an individual and respect their free will by not using the government or something else to coerce them into your way of thinking. Convince but don't coerce is the motto.

Also I feel the same way about drugs, alcohol is perfectly legal and some of that stuff will mess you up real bad and real quick, we've all seen what happens to someone who likes the hooch too much, how it ruins their life etc.
And honestly drugs aren't much different, and legalizing them would mean a higher quality product so the users wouldn't die because they get handed a batch that was cut with chalk or w/e, they can get help from the institutions more easily, the prices would drop dramatically and cut out the crime element entirely which will in turn drop crime rates dramatically. Also I think all drugs can be grown domestically, with use of greenhouses if necessary, which will mean that people won't be exploited by druglords in backwards countries to grow them.
In the end the decision to take drugs or not is a personal choice all of us make even now, just as we choose to partake or abstain from other vices, making it legal will only help make the whole thing safer, cleaner and cut down crime rates.
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  #290  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:36 AM
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Bolvar did raise a good point that probably no one here wants someone they care about to engage in such a profession
I don't want family members having to work at Mcdonalds either. Or doing mindless construction work like digging fence posts. Or many other things. I don't judge them for it though, and the only reason this would be any different is because sex itself has a negative connotation to it due to the heavily religious background of the U.S.

Which, all things considering, is rather funny.
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  #291  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:40 AM
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I don't want family members having to work at Mcdonalds either. Or doing mindless construction work like digging fence posts. Or many other things. I don't judge them for it though, and the only reason this would be any different is because sex itself has a negative connotation to it due to the heavily religious background of the U.S.

Which, all things considering, is rather funny.
If you really believe prostitution is only degrading if you happen to be religious, then you're really operating without any sort of functional moral compass.

I mean, most atheists and agnostics I know can at least acknowledge that prostitution is a bad thing. But you're going full retard for the sake of this argument.
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  #292  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:47 AM
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I think he's saying that it is made more degrading by the baggage that is hung on it. Which is kind of missing the point; it's got a bunch of abuse tied up in it that Wal-Mart cant do because of labor laws. I don't disagree that people's judgmental nature looks down on it, but that's hardly the biggest problem.
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  #293  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:49 AM
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I think he's saying that it is made more degrading by the baggage that is hung on it. Which is kind of missing the point; it's got a bunch of abuse tied up in it that Wal-Mart cant do because of labor laws.
You both are missing the point.

It's degrading because of the baggage attached to it, yes. But if prostitution is legalized it would get it's own set of laws and regulations as long as it's not done half-assed.
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  #294  
Old 05-30-2012, 11:56 AM
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It's only degrading (or let's use the term "negative") if it's someone being forced into it by anything else than the own want to work as a sexworker or poverty. Both problems should be adressed and prevented by making it legal. If that doesn't work the law or the state is flawed and/or it's policeforce corrupt or incompetent. All of that has nothing to do with the question whether or not taking money for providing sex is morally wrong as long as the provider is willing (which, as said above, should be a given in a legal environment). A good way to make sure that's the case would be to get rid of pimps entirely. Austria has such a law and many women make use of that to operate on their own, taking the middleman completeley out of the equasion. You can now argue that the state should do A LOT more to make sure no one gets conned or forced into it than the law itself says. I don't know the law, but it's a start, and a damn good one. It doesn't even have to say anything about treatment or slavery; we have completely different, old and used laws for all that crap. If THOSE don't work than only because the state itself is flawed.

By which i demand a revolution for Austria. Where's OUR Pirate Party?
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  #295  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:00 PM
Xilizhra Xilizhra is offline

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Originally Posted by Bolvar View Post
Legal or not, prostitution is horrible and degrading.

Legal or not, the women involved get exploited, abused, and have no hope of a normal relationship, ever.

(and, if you're going to make the stupid male prostitute argument, just get the fuck out - you're one of those assholes who likes to hold up the less-than-1% minority exception to the rule to stand on a debate, and that's fucking moronic)

Legal or not, there's no way you would want to be a prostitute (if you're a woman - and, Sarah, since you started this, I sincerely hope you're not considering this line of work as some means to make a few bucks on the side).

Legal or not, there's no way you'd want your mother, sister, or daughter to be a prostitute - and if you come in here and tell me you'd be OK with this, you're fucking full of shit, and if you're sincerely not full of shit, you're a horrible fucking person and I wish you nothing but a life of suffering because you deserve no better.

Honestly, it saddens me that so many of you think so little of women to actually stand on the other side of this debate. This isn't about female empowerment. If your idea of empowering women is to allow them to make a living on their backs, you are seriously sick in the head, and you need to spend more time with actual empowered women.
So your solution to this is to punish the victims?

Also, have you ever known any prostitutes, out of curiosity?
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  #296  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:04 PM
Fordragon Fordragon is offline

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You both are missing the point.

It's degrading because of the baggage attached to it, yes. But if prostitution is legalized it would get it's own set of laws and regulations as long as it's not done half-assed.
I said the abusive conditions were the main problem. So no, I got it just fine.
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  #297  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:08 PM
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I don't think so. I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to imply that a woman that's forced into is doesn't count as prostitute in the legal sense of being punishable but rather slavery victims that need to be freed.
He just seriously sounds like he thinks ALL prostitution is forced upon every single prostitute there is. Which, in a non-legal environment, may or may not be true, but that would (or at least SHOULD, as that'd be the whole point of such laws imo) change as soon as it get's legalized and government controlled.

Which... is funny. I may be on the pro-side here but i like how people claim it's not the governments business who they fuck or pay for, yet legalization would mean A LOT of government controll: health checkups (weekly in Austria), making sure there's no shady dealings going on, making sure the Johns fucking behave themselfes etc.
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  #298  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:17 PM
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I don't think so. I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to imply that a woman that's forced into is doesn't count as prostitute in the legal sense of being punishable but rather slavery victims that need to be freed.
I doubt he has enough moral integrity to believe in that fully; I'm fairly sure he'd punish those who seemed to be in it willingly as evil corrupters of society.
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  #299  
Old 05-30-2012, 12:21 PM
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That's got nothing to do with integrity; that's common sense. And you and i might not necessarily agree with him (i certainly don't), but he's not stupid.
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Old 05-30-2012, 12:45 PM
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I don't think so. I'm pretty sure he's smart enough to imply that a woman that's forced into is doesn't count as prostitute in the legal sense of being punishable but rather slavery victims that need to be freed.
Sweden's way is good enough.

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He just seriously sounds like he thinks ALL prostitution is forced upon every single prostitute there is. Which, in a non-legal environment, may or may not be true, but that would (or at least SHOULD, as that'd be the whole point of such laws imo) change as soon as it get's legalized and government controlled.
I don't want to repeat things, but why some people are still ignoring the fact?

I guess it's better to find some more sources so people won't say I'm repeating.
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