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Old 03-22-2018, 10:25 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
Your colleges already do it with students demanding non-white safe spaces.
Clearly all schools should become liberal safe spaces!
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Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #57427  
Old 03-23-2018, 02:14 AM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Bolton choice is distressing.
The NSC is there to gather intel to help the president makes choices.
It's already a hard job when the president doesn't specially care about reality.
But Bolton is known for having opinions and making up facts to support them.
He will enable Trump worst instinct and it's exactly why he was chosen.
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  #57428  
Old 03-23-2018, 09:18 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
Clearly all schools should become liberal safe spaces!
You should ban all schools instead. They only breed dumb teens and GTA larpers.
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  #57429  
Old 03-23-2018, 10:02 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by SmokeBlader View Post
You should ban all schools instead. They only breed dumb teens and GTA larpers.
Getting rid of education really is a big right wing fantasy, isn't it? It seems the logical end goal of conservatism is to regress us all the way back to the hunter-gatherer days.

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
Bolton choice is distressing.
The NSC is there to gather intel to help the president makes choices.
It's already a hard job when the president doesn't specially care about reality.
But Bolton is known for having opinions and making up facts to support them.
He will enable Trump worst instinct and it's exactly why he was chosen.
The guy legitimately thinks a preemptive strike against North Korea is something we should do. We're being led by complete moron authoritarians and things are only going to get worse from here.
Meanwhile, seeing this, other idiots somehow think it's a good idea to make sure that the idiots in power are the only ones with guns. Unfathomable.
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Old 03-23-2018, 11:13 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Getting rid of education really is a big right wing fantasy, isn't it? It seems the logical end goal of conservatism is to regress us all the way back to the hunter-gatherer days.

The guy legitimately thinks a preemptive strike against North Korea is something we should do. We're being led by complete moron authoritarians and things are only going to get worse from here.
Meanwhile, seeing this, other idiots somehow think it's a good idea to make sure that the idiots in power are the only ones with guns. Unfathomable.
When you say "other idiots", you're referring to Democrats and liberals?

It'd be really refreshing to hear you say a phrase like "left wing fantasy" when discussing your opinions on gun control.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 03-23-2018 at 11:15 AM..
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  #57431  
Old 03-23-2018, 11:38 AM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
When you say "other idiots", you're referring to Democrats and liberals?

It'd be really refreshing to hear you say a phrase like "left wing fantasy" when discussing your opinions on gun control.
Being against gun rights is an authoritarian thing, not necessarily a lefty thing. I think in Australia their main anti-gun-rights party is their more conservative party, for example. The Dems' general anti-gun-rights position also seems odd considering gun control is very racist, though there's a fair amount of them that do seem to be in favor of gun rights.

[edit] It looks like they managed to sneak Fix NICS in as a rider.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...-steps/556250/
Fix NICS is something I'm totally fine with and support (for the most part). It's basically just tougher enforcement of the laws we already have. The problem is that you can already see that it's not enough for the gun grabbers. Nothing will ever be enough for them.

In unrelated news, it seems that "Guccifer 2.0" (the guy responsible for the DNC hack) is indeed a Russian intel operative.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/exclus...igence-officer

[edit 2] And then there's this asshole:
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  #57432  
Old 03-23-2018, 03:19 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
considering gun control is very racist
Oh, you crazy kids of today! Throwing words together at random.
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  #57433  
Old 03-23-2018, 03:49 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Oh, you crazy kids of today! Throwing words together at random.
The modern movement against gun rights has its origins in trying to keep blacks disarmed. Look at what Reagan did in California once the Black Panther Party armed themselves to ensure the police didn't engage in the racist fuckery they were doing.
Plus there's the fact that disarming people at risk of persecution and discrimination gives more power to those against them.
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  #57434  
Old 03-23-2018, 05:00 PM
Anansi Anansi is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The modern movement against gun rights has its origins in trying to keep blacks disarmed.
I'm pretty sure the 'modern gun rights movement' has its roots in a couple decades of school shootings.
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  #57435  
Old 03-23-2018, 05:05 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I'm pretty sure the 'modern gun rights movement' has its roots in a couple decades of school shootings.
The people trying to take away our rights just use those as excuses. Or do you think the Patriot Act was all about preventing terrorism?
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  #57436  
Old 03-23-2018, 09:23 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The people trying to take away our rights just use those as excuses. Or do you think the Patriot Act was all about preventing terrorism?
So President Obama acted against gun rights and fomented anti-gun culture because he was secretly racist against blacks?

You're outside the standard Democratic Party line here, which I respect (and am intrigued by). But that also means your catchphrases aren't callibrated correctly.

EDIT: For a reminder, here's the fake tears of a schemer trying to keep blacks down.
https://www.cnn.com/2016/01/05/polit...rol/index.html

If I were slightly more Republican, that sentence wouldn't even be sarcastic.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 03-23-2018 at 09:41 PM..
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  #57437  
Old 03-23-2018, 09:42 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
So President Obama acted against gun rights and fomented anti-gun culture because he was secretly racist against blacks?
It may not have been his intent, but sure.

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You're outside the standard Democratic Party line here, which I respect (and am intrigued by). But that also means your catchphrases aren't callibrated correctly.
You're mistaking catchphrases for consistency.
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  #57438  
Old 03-24-2018, 01:18 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
It may not have been his intent, but sure.

You're mistaking catchphrases for consistency.
I do appreciate the consistency; it gives us opportunity to explore. For example, you just confirmed that intent is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
The modern movement against gun rights has its origins in trying to keep blacks disarmed. Look at what Reagan did in California once the Black Panther Party armed themselves to ensure the police didn't engage in the racist fuckery they were doing.
I'd suggest that historical origin of the anti-gun culture is completely moot, since it would only have value in indicating a secret intent or agenda from the anti-gun crowd. Just as you wouldn't allow a Republican to take the origins of his party as an argument for his current party's value, I won't allow you to take your assumed origins of anti-gunnery (which ignore factors such as backlash from the MLK assassination, by the way) as having an impact on its value today.

Does that make sense?

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Plus there's the fact that disarming people at risk of persecution and discrimination gives more power to those against them.
Since we've established that intent isn't a factor here, does this scenario have any basis on reality?

For example, does the 1986 ban on new machine guns (apologies if my info is slightly wrong; substitute this example with any gun right infringement you disapprove of) place an undo burden on black people today, moreso than other races? We're not dealing with Black Panthers arming against the LAPD right now.

Last edited by BaronGrackle; 03-24-2018 at 01:31 AM..
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  #57439  
Old 03-24-2018, 02:08 AM
Aneurysm Aneurysm is offline

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  #57440  
Old 03-24-2018, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Anansi View Post
I'm pretty sure the 'modern gun rights movement' has its roots in a couple decades of school shootings.
Look at you criticizing American traditions.
Shooting children makes America the bestest country on the world.
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  #57441  
Old 03-24-2018, 12:07 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
For example, does the 1986 ban on new machine guns (apologies if my info is slightly wrong; substitute this example with any gun right infringement you disapprove of) place an undo burden on black people today, moreso than other races? We're not dealing with Black Panthers arming against the LAPD right now.
Transferable MGs are prohibitively expensive now. Just look at the prices on [url=https://www.gunbroker.com/Class-3-Firearms-NFA-Destructive-Devices/search]Gunbroker's Class 3 category (also includes destructive devices and suppressors, of course).
Effectively pricing things out of the hands of the poor does indeed disproportionately affect black people just like a poll tax does (though of course you can always argue this is more of a class warfare thing).
It should also be noted that many (most?) of the politicians trying to take away our gun rights pay for their own armed security, another thing that the poor can't afford to protect themselves. Guns are only acceptable when used to protect the rich, it seems.

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Look at you criticizing American traditions.
Shooting children makes America the bestest country on the world.
Wew, that anti-gun-rights propaganda really worked well on you, didn't it?
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  #57442  
Old 03-24-2018, 02:44 PM
Reinhardt Reinhardt is offline

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Actually I think guns are not the root of the problem, there are countries with a lot of gun that don't have the same problem than the US.
American gun culture is.
It's a mental illness that can't be fixed until you accept that there is a problem.
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  #57443  
Old 03-24-2018, 03:22 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt View Post
Actually I think guns are not the root of the problem, there are countries with a lot of gun that don't have the same problem than the US.
American gun culture is.
It's a mental illness that can't be fixed until you accept that there is a problem.
We don't have a "gun culture" problem. We have an income inequality problem.

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  #57444  
Old 03-24-2018, 03:57 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Transferable MGs are prohibitively expensive now. Just look at the prices on [url=https://www.gunbroker.com/Class-3-Firearms-NFA-Destructive-Devices/search]Gunbroker's Class 3 category (also includes destructive devices and suppressors, of course).
Effectively pricing things out of the hands of the poor does indeed disproportionately affect black people just like a poll tax does (though of course you can always argue this is more of a class warfare thing).
Maybe I don't care how prohibitively expensive transferable machine guns are because I don't really think they should be available. Instead of making these deathtoys more accessible to the poor, maybe we can workj harder to keep them from the rich.

People don't buy these things for defense. They buy them as TOYS. They horde them up, bring them to gun ranges, and brag about them like sports cars.
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  #57445  
Old 03-24-2018, 04:06 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by BaronGrackle View Post
Maybe I don't care how prohibitively expensive transferable machine guns are because I don't really think they should be available. Instead of making these deathtoys more accessible to the poor, maybe we can workj harder to keep them from the rich.

People don't buy these things for defense. They buy them as TOYS. They horde them up, bring them to gun ranges, and brag about them like sports cars.
Okay, you just hate freedom, I guess. What's wrong with owning machine guns? There have been 3 instances of legally-owned MGs used in crime since the initial restriction in 1934. All of them were after the 1986 ban. There's no real reason not to at least repeal the Hughes Amendment.
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  #57446  
Old 03-24-2018, 04:42 PM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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"There was something that the woman who is the NRA spokesperson [Dana Loesch] said and everybody just kinda lost it… Dana says that the tears of white mothers are like ratings. And that's so true and it was so sad to hear her acknowledge it, but it's true, and black people know it's true," Killer Mike said, adding of the black community, "You're not woke! You can’t continue to be the lackey."

Killer Mike also relayed an anecdote where a fellow musician was being pressured to do an anti-gun campaign and called upon the rapper to handle the situation through discourse.

"Very simply: I'm African-American. You know, 54 years out of apartheid. I'm very pro-Second Amendment, this is why," the rapper said. "And before you say 'What about the children,' my daughter goes to Savannah State University. There was also a shooting on that campus. Talked to my wife and daughter after that, the decision was we're gonna go to Savannah, she's gonna get a gun and train more."


I mean, he's not wrong.
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  #57447  
Old 03-24-2018, 08:09 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Okay, you just hate freedom, I guess.
That's probably closer to the mark than looking for racism or class warfare.

Likely the case with the Democrats, too.
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  #57448  
Old 03-24-2018, 10:29 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Gun control is really complicated!

Because of course some of the historical push for it is to disarm black people (see Reagan vs Black Panthers)... But then again, if black people were all armed, would the police behave any better? Or would they just continue to kill them with greater impunity, if they could credibly say the blacks were armed?

And if people's gun rights are respected - to whatever a generic NRA member would consider satisfactory - then what will we do to stop people from getting killed? Republican politicians don't act to improve mental health, beyond whatever beneficial effects may arrive through the theoretical improvement in employment their economic policies would provide. Democratic politicians just can't get shit done without Republicans throwing shitfits, if they can even get it done in the first place.

Not to mention how utterly irresponsible most gun owners are in the first place.

---

On a different topic, this is a good read. At least if you're already inclined to certain beliefs.
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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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  #57449  
Old 03-24-2018, 11:39 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Originally Posted by Millenia View Post
And if people's gun rights are respected - to whatever a generic NRA member would consider satisfactory - then what will we do to stop people from getting killed?
Treat the disease instead of treating the symptom while throwing away our rights:
- Universal healthcare including mental health
- End the war on drugs, legalize prostitution, and possibly some other hings that drive gang/organized crime activity
- Work on economic development in areas with urban decay
- Allow private gun sellers to run background checks on buyers themselves for free
- Education reform like making teaching a more desirable job (as well as possibly getting away from the local property tax funding system)
- Teaching gun safety in schools again like we used to
- Figuring out other ways to reduce the insane income inequality that we have

Quote:
Republican politicians don't act to improve mental health, beyond whatever beneficial effects may arrive through the theoretical improvement in employment their economic policies would provide. Democratic politicians just can't get shit done without Republicans throwing shitfits, if they can even get it done in the first place.
True. Dems just need to drop their stupid tendency to hate the average citizen owning guns (I'd say "tendency to hate guns" but clearly they love guns as long as it's only their own armed guards that have them).

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Not to mention how utterly irresponsible most gun owners are in the first place.
Excuse me?
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  #57450  
Old 03-25-2018, 12:07 AM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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Originally Posted by Kakwakas View Post
Treat the disease instead of treating the symptom while throwing away our rights:
- Universal healthcare including mental health
- End the war on drugs, legalize prostitution, and possibly some other hings that drive gang/organized crime activity
- Work on economic development in areas with urban decay
- Allow private gun sellers to run background checks on buyers themselves for free
- Education reform like making teaching a more desirable job (as well as possibly getting away from the local property tax funding system)
- Teaching gun safety in schools again like we used to
- Figuring out other ways to reduce the insane income inequality that we have



True. Dems just need to drop their stupid tendency to hate the average citizen owning guns (I'd say "tendency to hate guns" but clearly they love guns as long as it's only their own armed guards that have them).
Agreed!

Though it's fun to hate the average gun-owning citizens.

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Excuse me?
Unfair characterization, but wasn't one of the more recent killings because a guy grabbed his mom's guns, killed her, then went out to kill more people?
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3) You can't leave the game.

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Originally Posted by Mustrum View Post
Because if a storyteller is doing his job, he makes you care. And if that storyteller then says "I dunno, then they stopped fighting, I guess," without any explanation or clarification, his audience has every right to be pissed off. Because they were given reason to stay interested, reason to keep up with his tale, only to be shut down just as things were getting good. A waste of time, a waste of emotional tension, a waste, if you fail to grasp the significance of narrative, of money.
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