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Old 10-21-2015, 12:50 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
You have christians committing atrocities in africa.
Meanwhile, Muslims commit atrocities in every country that they rule or live in. Yet, somehow, a group of Christians fighting back against Islamic terrorists is morally equal to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaida, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Fatah, Boko Haram, FSA, and others.

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I also explained why. Christian groups in America are neutered by separation of church and state and the muslim fundamentalist groups have billions of dollars of funding.
Christianity, much like every religion besides Islam, never had the control over the populace and totalitarian governing practices that Islam does. They never had widespread, and religiously mandated, merging of church and state, unlike Islam. Christian groups ALSO have billions of dollars of funding. You know what they do with it? Give it to charity, rather than making episodes of Farfour the Mouse.


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I said biblical law of the old testament was more oppressive.
You say that, but "saying" and "proving" are two completely different things.

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And given that that explicitly states you should beat your child for talking out of turn, It was as bad.
Really? You're really comparing mandated child rape by Muhammad's words and actions, and (explicit, rather than theorized) spousal abuse with parents disciplining their children, and calling it equal?

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Also, given that the messiah is especially defined as someone who will slaughter the enemy and deliver justice I could easily argue that Jesus only preached the meek and mild rout because Rome would have slaughtered him otherwise.
Oh, come on! You can do better than that! The fact that they didn't do that, is really all the proof I need. A lot of Jews were not fond of Jesus because he didn't try to do that. It's almost like they were following what Jesus said and did, rather than some evil ulterior motive that you are ascribing to him. Hell, the article you linked had this to say:

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Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, ?You shall not kill,? and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means ?the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.? God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.
That sounds perfectly reasonable, to me.

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War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more ?just? than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, ?There is?a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.? In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).
The bolded part, in particular, is sayint the opposite of what you are saying: that Jesus wanted the Christians to violently overthrow the Roman government. There is a good chance that I misinterpreted what you said, so please, clarify.

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And before you say "oh loon watch lol"....this is from a christian evangelical website. http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html So the skeptics annotated bible is leftist garbage? As are the bible quotes that explicitly say that masters can do whatever the hell they want with their slaves?
And yet, the very website you are using has this to say about biblical slavery:

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The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was based more on economics; it was a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

The slavery of the past few centuries was often based exclusively on skin color. In the United States, many black people were considered slaves because of their nationality; many slave owners truly believed black people to be inferior human beings. The Bible condemns race-based slavery in that it teaches that all men are created by God and made in His image (Genesis 1:27). At the same time, the Old Testament did allow for economic-based slavery and regulated it. The key issue is that the slavery the Bible allowed for in no way resembled the racial slavery that plagued our world in the past few centuries.

In addition, both the Old and New Testaments condemn the practice of ?man-stealing,? which is what happened in Africa in the 19th century. Africans were rounded up by slave-hunters, who sold them to slave-traders, who brought them to the New World to work on plantations and farms. This practice is abhorrent to God. In fact, the penalty for such a crime in the Mosaic Law was death: ?Anyone who kidnaps another and either sells him or still has him when he is caught must be put to death? (Exodus 21:16). Similarly, in the New Testament, slave-traders are listed among those who are ?ungodly and sinful? and are in the same category as those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers, adulterers and perverts, and liars and perjurers (1 Timothy 1:8?10).
In other words, it refutes the very argument you just tried to make on slavery.

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I know Islamic terrorism exists. Robert Spencer is untrustworthy because he defended the butcher of Srebrenica,
Spencer himself wrote:

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If Spencer is guilty of ?genocide denial,? so also is the Yale Human Rights & Development Law Journal. In reality, neither are. The raising of legitimate questions does not constitute either the denial or the excusing of the evils that Serbian forces perpetrated at Srebrenica or anywhere else.
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and can be demonstrably proved to have lied in other areas.
[citation needed]

In what way did he "defend" the butcher of Srebrenica, champ? Spencer, in his own words, called it "unquestionably heinous". All he did was link to two articles that expressed reasonable doubts about whether the "genocide" took place, the first from 2005 and the second from 2009, both of which use articles written by other authors expressing doubts over whether Srebrenica can be called a "genocide" by the textbook definition:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/06/ja...evils-advocate
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/af...test-there-was

Both articles, unfortunately, do not have any working links, but were written by a Stella L. Jatras and Caleb Posner. Now, before you go all "lol, you're dumb!", I'm going to quote Caleb Posner's article, and the quote for the title of the second JihadWatch article comes from Alexander Dorin, a Swiss researcher.

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So what exactly is the truth? Alexander Dorin, a Swiss researcher who just recently sent his book ?Srebrenica ? The History of Salon Racism? to print in German (Serb and English translations are planned in the future) said in an interview that, ?After 14 years of investigating events that took place in Srebrenica in 1995 I can attest there was no genocide over Muslims in that enclave ?? the myth about the massacre of Muslims was invented by the late Bosnian Muslim war leader Alija Izetbegović and then-U.S. president Bill Clinton.? Questionable as that allegation may sound to many, it is important to recall that the United States actively armed Izetbegović and his ragtag jihadist army during the war, applied pressure on Tudjman?s secessionist Croat government to cease his involvement in the Herzeg-Bosnia land theft, and sought actively to create a Bosniak state where one had not traditionally existed (for the land falls within the bounds of historic Serbia). Much of this, especially the sale of arms, was documented heavily even by the liberal American media at the time. And indeed, once the other factual inaccuracies become apparent, it seems quite evident that there was not a Srebrenica massacre, but rather a military engagement that, like many US operations, involved some inadvertant civilian casualties, that has been mythologized to give political cover to the warmongers that led us into battle on intelligence information more questionable than any ever utilized by the Bush administration.
And we all know that Bill Clinton would never lie about anything for personal and partisan political gain! And it isn't like we have some standard to base the "Srebrenica Genocide" propaganda myth on, something like "Pallywood", or anything! No, it has to be what the U.N., a Jihadist leader, and President Bill Clinton tell us! Yet, somehow, President Bush is to be doubted at all times, especially when it comes to Iraq!


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For instance, the real number of dead bodies uncovered was closer to 2000. Some 3000 names of alleged victims were alive enough to vote in the 1996 elections. And many other dead bodies were found to be from previous gun battles or from non-violent ends more than a decade before the event in question. Still unaddressed though is guilt. Among the 2000 dead discovered were a very large number of soldiers who, under the leadership of jihadist Naser Orić killed some 3000 Serbian civilians beforehand. That raises perhaps the most important point: Srebrenica was not a purposeful slaughter of innocent civilians, but an effort by Serb forces to save the lives of their countrymen from an enemy army that had already spilled ample blood, and which was cowardly seeking refuge in protected civilian areas that were supposed to be unarmed, and therefore demilitarized?
That sounds like common Jihadist tactics, to me. Islamists butcher a bunch of civilians, mix their own dead in with the actual victims, and than manufacture themselves as the poor little "dindu nuffin" victims.

Oh, and before you try to link it to "LOL, Holocaust denial!": there were parties on both sides, as well as massive amounts of evidence, that condemned and revealed the Holocaust. The same can't be said for Srebrenica, where we only hear one side: that of the poor little Muslims who were "butchered" by those evil Serbs for no reason at all. We never hear anything from the Serbian side over what happened. One side is presented, and there are no cross-examined Serbian witnesses to it, no guilt-ridden Serbs who, like the SS guards, feel soul pains from what happened there.

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Nazi officials underwent denazification but aside from the high ranking bigwigs and ss members most of them had small jail terms and went on with their lives. In Japan MacArthur allowed Hirohito to walk even though he deserved to die because he felt the Emperor was too important.
Just because we didn't kill all of them, doesn't mean that we didn't destroy and later rebuild, their nations from the ground up. The Emperor might have survived, but his power did not.
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Last edited by Ganishka; 10-21-2015 at 01:17 PM..
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  #5977  
Old 10-21-2015, 01:19 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
Meanwhile, Muslims commit atrocities in every country that they rule or live in. Yet, somehow, a group of Christians fighting back against Islamic terrorists is morally equal to ISIS, Hamas, Hezbollah, Al-Qaida, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Fatah, Boko Haram, FSA, and others.



Christianity, much like every religion besides Islam, never had the control over the populace and totalitarian governing practices that Islam does. They never had widespread, and religiously mandated, merging of church and state, unlike Islam. Christian groups ALSO have billions of dollars of funding. You know what they do with it? Give it to charity, rather than making episodes of Farfour the Mouse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gi-c6lbFGC4


You say that, but "saying" and "proving" are two completely different things.



Really? You're really comparing mandated child rape by Muhammad's words and actions, and (explicit, rather than theorized) spousal abuse with parents disciplining their children, and calling it equal?



Oh, come on! You can do better than that! The fact that they didn't do that, is really all the proof I need. A lot of Jews were not fond of Jesus because he didn't try to do that. It's almost like they were following what Jesus said and did, rather than some evil ulterior motive that you are ascribing to him. Hell, the article you linked had this to say:



That sounds perfectly reasonable, to me.



The bolded part, in particular, is sayint the opposite of what you are saying: that Jesus wanted the Christians to violently overthrow the Roman government. There is a good chance that I misinterpreted what you said, so please, clarify.



And yet, the very website you are using has this to say about biblical slavery:



In other words, it refutes the very argument you just tried to make on slavery.



In what way did he "defend" the butcher of Srebrenica, champ? Spencer, in his own words, called it "unquestionably heinous". All he did was link to two articles that expressed reasonable doubt about whether the "genocide" took place, the first from 2005 and the second from 2009, both of which use articles written by other authors expressing doubts over whether Srebrenica can be called a "genocide" by the textbook definition:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2005/06/ja...evils-advocate
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/08/af...test-there-was

Both articles, unfortunately, do not have any working links, but were written by a Stella L. Jatras and Caleb Posner. Now, before you go all "lol, you're dumb!", I'm going to quote Caleb Posner's article, and the quote for the title of the second JihadWatch article comes from Alexander Dorin, a Swiss researcher.



And we all know that Bill Clinton would never lie about anything for personal and partisan political gain! And it isn't like we have some standard to base the "Srebrenica Genocide" propaganda myth on, something like "Pallywood", or anything! No, it has to be what the U.N., a Jihadist leader, and President Bill Clinton tell us! Yet, somehow, President Bush is to be doubted at all times, especially when it comes to Iraq!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uartJGBVHwU



That sounds like common Jihadist tactics, to me. Islamists butcher a bunch of civilians, mix their own dead in with the actual victims, and than manufacture themselves as the poor little "dindu nuffin" victims.



Just because we didn't kill all of them, doesn't mean that we didn't destroy and later rebuild, their nations from the ground up. The Emperor might have survived, but his power did not.
For now I'll answer Dorin's horseshit. Research by other groups such as the Hague Tribunal's office of the prosecutor, the count of serb casualties that the serbs claimed was a lie (i.e. the actual count was smaller, and the same verdict that found nasir oric guilty concluded that the serbs provoked the fighting and that more specifically "In comparison, it appears that the Bosnian Muslim side did not adequately prepare for the looming armed conflict. There were not even firearms to be found in the Bosnian Muslim villages, apart from some privately owned pistols and hunting rifles; a few light weaponswere kept at the Srebrenica police station."


The reason the 3000 show up was simply because all names of all preregistered citizens were used on the list, and because it happened so soon no one had time to correct it.

The international commission of missing persons conducted dna testing and confirmed the identities of more than 6000 people who died there, and the overall conclusion by the ICMP was that at least 8100 people died.

Alexander Dorin is a liar and anyone who trusts him is either a liar or an idiot. I'm more inclined to trust the hague and International Commission of Missing Persons than a huckster like Dorin.
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  #5978  
Old 10-21-2015, 01:39 PM
Ma Caque Attaque Ma Caque Attaque is offline

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  #5979  
Old 10-21-2015, 02:51 PM
Ganishka Ganishka is offline

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Originally Posted by Ol'Yoggy View Post
For now I'll answer Dorin's horseshit. Research by other groups such as the Hague Tribunal's office of the prosecutor, the count of serb casualties that the serbs claimed was a lie (i.e. the actual count was smaller, and the same verdict that found nasir oric guilty concluded that the serbs provoked the fighting and that more specifically "In comparison, it appears that the Bosnian Muslim side did not adequately prepare for the looming armed conflict. There were not even firearms to be found in the Bosnian Muslim villages, apart from some privately owned pistols and hunting rifles; a few light weaponswere kept at the Srebrenica police station."
Oh, boy! More lying leftist media! You do know that the Hague Tribunal was created to cover for the lies of the Clinton Administration, right? They are a propaganda tool, and nothing more.

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The reason the 3000 show up was simply because all names of all preregistered citizens were used on the list, and because it happened so soon no one had time to correct it.
Lol. That's a fucking flimsy and convenient excuse, and you know it.

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The international commission of missing persons conducted dna testing and confirmed the identities of more than 6000 people who died there, and the overall conclusion by the ICMP was that at least 8100 people died.
You mean the giant army of Arab Muslim Jihadists that were there to slaughter Christians?


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Alexander Dorin is a liar and anyone who trusts him is either a liar or an idiot. I'm more inclined to trust the hague and International Commission of Missing Persons than a huckster like Dorin.
Projection!
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  #5980  
Old 10-21-2015, 03:17 PM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Oh, boy! More lying leftist media! You do know that the Hague Tribunal was created to cover for the lies of the Clinton Administration, right? They are a propaganda tool, and nothing more.
I've seen you post quite a lot of outright falsehoods and drivel, but this one probably takes the cake, it's just so absurd.
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  #5981  
Old 10-21-2015, 03:37 PM
Shaman Shaman is offline

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Not many hymns or rituals? Anglicanism? Are you sure?

EDIT: Especially the part about hymns? They've got some really cool ones; some they share with other denominations, and some that are uniquely Anglican.
Well our church was a pretty small rural one - there wasn't a huge congregation. The structure of an average day there was a hymn in the beginning, then a reading from the New Testament or Psalms and then finally a prayer and a hymn. But most of the hour was just the friendly minister talking about ethical questions or stuff going on in the community. I liked his focus on social care and community. There was also a youth group that was really cool too.

I'm not 100% sure - but I think the bigger Anglican congregations in the south of England would be where you see more orthodoxy on ritual and ceremony than the church I went to.

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  #5982  
Old 10-21-2015, 03:38 PM
Ol'Yoggy Ol'Yoggy is offline

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Originally Posted by Ganishka View Post
Oh, boy! More lying leftist media! You do know that the Hague Tribunal was created to cover for the lies of the Clinton Administration, right? They are a propaganda tool, and nothing more.



Lol. That's a fucking flimsy and convenient excuse, and you know it.



You mean the giant army of Arab Muslim Jihadists that were there to slaughter Christians?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lSRFC-jVPw



Projection!
Do you dismiss every source that disagrees as "leftist tripe"? In 1997 the "alive" people were no longer registered to vote. The DNA testing proved that the claims of "2000" dead were a lie. Given that the dna results it's safe to say the claims that "And many other dead bodies were found to be from previous gun battles or from non-violent ends more than a decade before the event in question." All were confirmed to have occurred at the time. The "3000 serbs" claim is a lie as well. It was found that the villages that were attacked had been ethnically cleansed of their muslim populations and were used to launch raids on srebrenica.

Are the International Coalition of Missing Persons "apologists"?

"By analyzing DNA profiles extracted from bone samples of exhumed mortal remains and matching them to the DNA profiles obtained from blood samples donated by relatives of the missing, the International Commission on Missing Persons (ICMP) has so far revealed the identity of 6,598 persons missing from the July 1995 fall of Srebrenica.
In an effort to identify the victims ICMP has collected blood samples from 21,566 Srebrenica victims? survivors. The number of reported missing for whom ICMP has blood samples as well as the matching rate between DNA profiles extracted from these bone and blood samples leads ICMP to support an estimate of around 8,100 individuals missing from the fall of Srebrenica in July 1995. This leads us to a conclusion that the bodies of approximately 1,500 persons still need to be found.
So far 5,564 cases of Srebrenica victims have been closed by local court-appointed pathologists. Other cases are pending approvals from family members who have decided to wait until more body parts of their identified relatives are found, before they are buried.
ICMP Director General Kathryne Bomberger said on this occasion: ?On behalf of International Commission on Missing Persons, I would like to extend my deepest condolences to the families who are burying their loved ones on July 11th. ICMP is dedicated to assisting Bosnia and Herzegovina in continuing to account not only for persons missing from Srebrenica, but for the approximately 10,000 persons who are still missing from Bosnia?s armed conflicts of the 1990?s. It is vital that BiH authorities remain vigilant in accounting for missing persons in accordance with proper rule of law procedures so that families of missing persons can find closure and have access to justice.? She added that ?By providing irrefutable scientific evidence of the identity of victims of atrocity, we hope that ICMP?s work will assist in preempting denial and political manipulation and allow authorities in Bosnia and Herzegovina to provide accurate and reliable information regarding events that took place during the conflict.?
The introduction of DNA by the ICMP as the basis for identifying large numbers of missing persons from the 1990?s conflicts in the Western Balkans enabled accurate identifications of persons that would never otherwise have been identified. The first DNA match, for a 15 year-old boy from Srebrenica, was made on November 16, 2001. Since then, ICMP has made DNA-identifications for 16,231 persons in the Western Balkans, of which 13,581 are in Bosnia and Herzegovina alone.
ICMP provides governments with technical assistance including locating and identifying missing persons through the use of high-throughput DNA identity testing, as well as forensic support in the fields of archeology and anthropology. ICMP cooperates with the INTERPOL in the field of locating and identifying missing persons in time of disasters, war crimes and crimes against humanity around the globe."

The number of bodies confirmed has risen to over 6000. So again Dorin was completely full of shit on the "only 2000 died". Therefore his other claims are suspect as well. Unless you want to argue with DNA evidence.

What's more after the holocaust some census data included pre war counts of the numbers of jews for several years. Unsurprisingly holocaust deniers ate that shit up like candy.

Also, you ignore that there is no proof that most of the muslims were arab jihadists mixed with the civilians. So all in all your claim of "You mean the giant army of Arab Muslim Jihadists that were there to slaughter Christians?" is a fraud, especially considering the overexxageration that was the 3000 serbs count. If the muslims were there for genocide they sucked big time
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  #5983  
Old 11-02-2015, 10:40 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I consider Religion to be good. It is restrictive for people who needs restriction, helps people find hope and other stuff. Miffy can eat a dick.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:43 PM
HlaaluStyle HlaaluStyle is offline

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I consider Religion to be good. It is restrictive for people who needs restriction, helps people find hope and other stuff.
I don't believe in any religion, but I think faith helps a lot of people.
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Old 11-02-2015, 11:45 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I would describe myself as a christian agnostic sort of atm. I believe But i have my doubts about God. from time to time.
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Old 11-03-2015, 04:19 AM
Yaskaleh Yaskaleh is offline

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I consider Religion to be good. It is restrictive for people who needs restriction, helps people find hope and other stuff. Miffy can eat a dick.
I remember you saying "kill all christians" not too long ago. Was it a total Gurzog moment?
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  #5987  
Old 11-03-2015, 04:36 AM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I remember you saying "kill all christians" not too long ago. Was it a total Gurzog moment?
everything is a total gurzog moment.
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Old 11-03-2015, 05:37 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Religion is a weapon among an arsenal.
A tool to be used when needed and discarded when not.

It's a tool which can help create a sense of a "greater goal" to fight for as well as create comfort for some. Political ideologies can also achieve the same "greater goal", although political ideologies may be far more dangerous.

I find that while the West has become more secular, people have really ended up trading one ideology for another.
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Old 11-03-2015, 06:40 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Religion is a weapon among an arsenal.
A tool to be used when needed and discarded when not.

It's a tool which can help create a sense of a "greater goal" to fight for as well as create comfort for some. Political ideologies can also achieve the same "greater goal", although political ideologies may be far more dangerous.

I find that while the West has become more secular, people have really ended up trading one ideology for another.
There's truth to this, depending on what you mean.
Please tell me you're not taking the "science is the new religion" path
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:01 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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There's truth to this, depending on what you mean.
Please tell me you're not taking the "science is the new religion" path
Nope, political ideologies are the new religion.
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Old 11-03-2015, 10:04 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Nope, political ideologies are the new religion.
Mhmm I dunno if I'd fully sign that. There's certainly a lot of entrenched bias in America, and media spinning, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it religious just yet.

If anything, political apathy and following whatever is babbled about on the media is the status quo for many, and not ideological fervor. There is very little substance to most common positions, and politics have degenerated to outright empty populism for the most part.

For those that deal with politics with a certain fervour, strong convictions or opinions do not necessarily indicate religious fervour or dogmatic convictions. Except when religious dogma is the basis for their position, of course.

And then there's everywhere else in the world, where politics are discussed on a much more rational and calm platform, such as Germany, which has, in my opinion, an exemplary democratic political culture in the media.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:19 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Bleach is getting weird with angels and I love it.

I know archangels are a thing, but there's also seraphim.

Cherubs are basically cupids, but there are cherubim with 4 different faces.

What other angel types are out there, and why do they keep being used interchangeably?
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:23 AM
SmokeBlader SmokeBlader is offline

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What other angel types are out there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophanim

The nightmare fuel angels.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:25 AM
ijffdrie ijffdrie is offline

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Christian Angels are usually divided into nine ranks. From bottom to top: Angel, Archangel, Principality, Power, Virtue, Dominion, Throne, Cherubim, Seraphim. However, that's just the most popular scheme, and there's tons more throughout the abrahamic religions, adding stuff like ophanim, erelim, elohim, etc. Christian divisions usually have nine groups divided into three groups of three, Jewish divisions usually have ten groups (fitted to the kabbalah), Islamic divisions are more variable, and the yazidi have their seven angels between whom the world is divided.

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Old 12-06-2015, 06:51 AM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Old 12-06-2015, 10:02 AM
Genesis Genesis is offline

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The bolded part, in particular, is sayint the opposite of what you are saying: that Jesus wanted the Christians to violently overthrow the Roman government. There is a good chance that I misinterpreted what you said, so please, clarify.
Ganishka, I'm not interested in your debate, but as I was just scanning, this Bible bit caught my eye. Just one minor point here: citing either Romans or 1 Peter as indicative of what "Jesus wanted the Christians" to do seems silly given the fact that the character of Jesus says nothing in either letter. It tells us what Paul and Peter think but nothing of what the character of Jesus, as presented in the four canonical gospels, thinks or says.

(Furthermore, you do realize that if that's the case, then people should not oppose socialists governments, since Christians should not "oppose the government God has placed in authority over them." You may want to avoid such strong, blanket arguments or you will find yourself in an unpleasant place. )

Also, Ganishka, you CANNOT IGNORE the long history in the United States by Southern slavers of citing the Bible as evidence in support of slavery. That history exist. That biblical interpretation exists and persists, even among white supremacists. That interpretation was used within the past two-hundred years to justify slavery in this country. That's a fact. That's history. That's reality. That's the historical shame that our country must continually live with.
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Old 12-06-2015, 11:43 AM
miffy23 miffy23 is offline

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Ganishka, I'm not interested in your debate, but as I was just scanning, this Bible bit caught my eye. Just one minor point here: citing either Romans or 1 Peter as indicative of what "Jesus wanted the Christians" to do seems silly given the fact that the character of Jesus says nothing in either letter. It tells us what Paul and Peter think but nothing of what the character of Jesus, as presented in the four canonical gospels, thinks or says.

(Furthermore, you do realize that if that's the case, then people should not oppose socialists governments, since Christians should not "oppose the government God has placed in authority over them." You may want to avoid such strong, blanket arguments or you will find yourself in an unpleasant place. )

Also, Ganishka, you CANNOT IGNORE the long history in the United States by Southern slavers of citing the Bible as evidence in support of slavery. That history exist. That biblical interpretation exists and persists, even among white supremacists. That interpretation was used within the past two-hundred years to justify slavery in this country. That's a fact. That's history. That's reality. That's the historical shame that our country must continually live with.
The simple answer to any of Gani's rants: neither ethnicity nor ideology serve as blanket causes for anything.
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Old 02-05-2016, 06:22 PM
Millenia Millenia is offline

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How the Satanic Temple forced Phoenix lawmakers to ban public prayer

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Mhmm I dunno if I'd fully sign that. There's certainly a lot of entrenched bias in America, and media spinning, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it religious just yet.

If anything, political apathy and following whatever is babbled about on the media is the status quo for many, and not ideological fervor. There is very little substance to most common positions, and politics have degenerated to outright empty populism for the most part.

For those that deal with politics with a certain fervour, strong convictions or opinions do not necessarily indicate religious fervour or dogmatic convictions. Except when religious dogma is the basis for their position, of course.

And then there's everywhere else in the world, where politics are discussed on a much more rational and calm platform, such as Germany, which has, in my opinion, an exemplary democratic political culture in the media.
I dunno about it, religious apathy is probably about the same as political apathy, even though it may be weakly "aligned" to the dominant religion of a person's surroundings. Like the Christians who only go to church on Easter and Christmas and spend the rest of their time not doing much of anything religious.

The only difference is that it's more socially acceptable to not give a damn about voting in society as a whole, as opposed to being openly non-religious. For instance, see this survey.

Of course, it's more acceptable to be non-religious today than in the past, but others think it's a manner of "non-religious people say they're non-religious instead of Christian" as opposed to "more people becoming non-religious".
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