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  #5801  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:13 AM
Menel'dirion Menel'dirion is offline

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One of the things I wonder is that since Bwonsamdi is the loa of the dead and in charge of an afterlife and Sylvanas is trying to stave off going to Warcraft hell are these two eventually going to cut a deal at some point within BFA? It wouldn't be a "redemption" as much as it would be a deal. Serve the loa of the dead and he promises to watch over your soul so you don't go to Warcraft hell.

She doesn't have to be redeemed but it could act as a catalyst for her no longer being an absolute bitch. It would also serve as a part of "Vol'jin's grand plan" to essentially guarantee a spot in the troll afterlife for the Forsaken.

Random thoughts.
I think you may be right. Both are in pretty deep with Death. I wonder if Bwomsamdi might not want something from her. Perhaps more souls from the war, perhaps a general for his spirit forces. Perhaps an Ally against the Boid, as I’m sure the Souls he watches over would make great void/fel food.
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  #5802  
Old 06-18-2018, 10:25 AM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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By your reckoning it’s one of the short stories, but I’m more inclined to think those will come with the event. Do we have room for another comic? I rather miss the audio-dramas and the barely animated shorts.
Yeah, the nature of the short stories would make it more sensible to delay them for after 8.0.

Maybe we can get animated shorts in the veins of Lords of War or Harbingers? It seems that the Burning of Teldrassil will have one. Maybe we will get a few more before that?

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In the mean time, I have a couple questions about the Heart of Azeroth.

1. Is this going to be a “just for BfA thing”?

2. Is that title to be taken literally? Or is it more of a symbolic thing?
1. Yes, it's just for BfA.

2. I think it's symbolic. But there could be a plot twist there.

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One of the things I wonder is that since Bwonsamdi is the loa of the dead and in charge of an afterlife and Sylvanas is trying to stave off going to Warcraft hell are these two eventually going to cut a deal at some point within BFA? It wouldn't be a "redemption" as much as it would be a deal. Serve the loa of the dead and he promises to watch over your soul so you don't go to Warcraft hell.

She doesn't have to be redeemed but it could act as a catalyst for her no longer being an absolute bitch. It would also serve as a part of "Vol'jin's grand plan" to essentially guarantee a spot in the troll afterlife for the Forsaken.

Random thoughts.
That's an interesting theory.
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  #5803  
Old 06-18-2018, 11:00 AM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
One of the things I wonder is that since Bwonsamdi is the loa of the dead and in charge of an afterlife and Sylvanas is trying to stave off going to Warcraft hell are these two eventually going to cut a deal at some point within BFA? It wouldn't be a "redemption" as much as it would be a deal. Serve the loa of the dead and he promises to watch over your soul so you don't go to Warcraft hell.

She doesn't have to be redeemed but it could act as a catalyst for her no longer being an absolute bitch. It would also serve as a part of "Vol'jin's grand plan" to essentially guarantee a spot in the troll afterlife for the Forsaken.

Random thoughts.
I really like this idea. I hope it(or something like it)is actually where the story is going.
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  #5804  
Old 06-18-2018, 02:39 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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It would require knowing a lot more about the afterlife in WoW cosmology. What if the Forsaken don't want the Troll afterlife? What if Sylvanas didn't go to a shitty place because that's where undead go but because she was a shithead?

I get the impression that Bwonsamedi, like all actual death deities, despises undead because they are an aberration in the natural cycle of life and death. It seems like any deal cut with him would also require the immediate and permanent cessation of any attempts to perpetuate undeath.
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  #5805  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:08 PM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Bwonsamdi does say that he hates undead in Nazmir questing. What gets him talking about it is G'huun's undead followers, but he doesn't say he hates those in specific, what he says is undead have an unbearable taint that he can't stand in his temple.

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  #5806  
Old 06-18-2018, 03:37 PM
Mungo Mungo is offline

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It would require knowing a lot more about the afterlife in WoW cosmology. What if the Forsaken don't want the Troll afterlife? What if Sylvanas didn't go to a shitty place because that's where undead go but because she was a shithead?

I get the impression that Bwonsamedi, like all actual death deities, despises undead because they are an aberration in the natural cycle of life and death. It seems like any deal cut with him would also require the immediate and permanent cessation of any attempts to perpetuate undeath.
Yeah, that's true, I wish we knew more, but blizzard is so tight-lipped about the whole thing. I actually talked about this in a question I had about Sylvanas in the lore talks thread. Did she go to that dark place because she was evil, or just because she was forsaken? If it's the latter, that's really shitty of the WoW universe, since most of them didn't have a choice to become forsaken.
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  #5807  
Old 06-18-2018, 05:12 PM
Gurzog Gurzog is offline

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I am exalted with honourbound and might unlock maghar scenario.
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  #5808  
Old 06-19-2018, 05:08 PM
Arakiba Arakiba is offline

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Login screen. Kinda disappointed, actually.

I was expecting a similar setup but with smoldering Teldrassil. Feel that would've made for a much more striking image.
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  #5809  
Old 06-19-2018, 09:38 PM
Mending Mending is offline

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That image of Sylvanas below Teldrassil burning from Blizzcon is iconic and the event that kicks off the expansion (also a fantastic opportunity to rub salt in night elf fans’ wounds) which is why I’m so surprised they didn’t go with it for the login screen.

Last edited by Mending; 06-19-2018 at 09:40 PM..
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  #5810  
Old 06-19-2018, 11:53 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Just started testing classes and specs. As for now, Fury and Outlaw are the most fun to play

Frost DK seems to be lacking something.

Fury's Recklessness apparently was updated with a reddish spell effect https://gfycat.com/WideGrizzledAfricanjacana

Also this sword is nuts



I managed to find this quest back in March: http://bfa.wowhead.com/quest=50476/the-warchief-awaits

Gurz just reported in the SoL Discord that the quest is live right now in the PTR.

I should go back and dig all my March 2018 posts to see what else I found lol
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  #5811  
Old 06-20-2018, 03:17 AM
Pepe Stormstout Pepe Stormstout is offline

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The music is in, and it's as great as ever.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ld-26871-Music

I haven't listened to every single piece yet, but so far I think my absolute favorite ones are the sethrak theme:
https://media.mmo-champion.com/image...Sethrak_01.mp3
https://media.mmo-champion.com/image...Sethrak_06.mp3

I quite like these two as well (the latter especially is beautiful):
https://media.mmo-champion.com/image...uilboar_01.mp3
https://media.mmo-champion.com/image...s_Night_01.mp3
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  #5812  
Old 06-20-2018, 07:01 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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So more of the Teldrassil quests got added in this build. They're really, really contradictory depending on your faction, to the degree that they can't both be canon.

For example, the Horde version of Astranaar has you mark guards for execution while making sure to not harm any civilians, in fact the civilians are friendly to Horde players so you can't hurt them even by accident.

The Alliance version has you arrive to be informed the Horde rounded up all the civilians in the town square and executed them, complete with Forsaken assassins still lurking the town and clouds of blight everywhere.

In Darkshore, the Horde gains a foothold by challenging the furbolg chieftains to honorable combat. They best the chieftans and so they peacefully allow the Horde to pass through Darkshore without any Furbolgs being killed.

In the Alliance version, the Horde has enslaved the furbolgs, keeping their chieftains in cages and using them as hostages to force the furbolgs to attack the Alliance.
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  #5813  
Old 06-20-2018, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So more of the Teldrassil quests got added in this build. They're really, really contradictory depending on your faction, to the degree that they can't both be canon.

For example, the Horde version of Astranaar has you mark guards for execution while making sure to not harm any civilians, in fact the civilians are friendly to Horde players so you can't hurt them even by accident.

The Alliance version has you arrive to be informed the Horde rounded up all the civilians in the town square and executed them, complete with Forsaken assassins still lurking the town and clouds of blight everywhere.

In Darkshore, the Horde gains a foothold by challenging the furbolg chieftains to honorable combat. They best the chieftans and so they peacefully allow the Horde to pass through Darkshore without any Furbolgs being killed.

In the Alliance version, the Horde has enslaved the furbolgs, keeping their chieftains in cages and using them as hostages to force the furbolgs to attack the Alliance.
There's bad writing. And there's THAT.

Blizzard is completely crazy if it wants to do a faction war story while failing to make a cohesive story. It was bad enough in Cata when a continuity error between novel and game sparked endless discussion of who shot first.

With effort, I can make up some forced explanations for the differences. But it would mean the Horde is utterly clueless, as the "fix" would mean: "You do stuff, the Forsaken come after and shit all over it."

Like: you mark the guards. The Forsaken use their position to blight the whole town. You get a free pass from the Furbolgs. Once the foothold is taken, the Horde betrays the Furbolgs and force them to fight the Alliance.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Sylvanas is lying about the whole plan.
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  #5814  
Old 06-20-2018, 10:51 AM
Taintedmage Taintedmage is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So more of the Teldrassil quests got added in this build. They're really, really contradictory depending on your faction, to the degree that they can't both be canon.

For example, the Horde version of Astranaar has you mark guards for execution while making sure to not harm any civilians, in fact the civilians are friendly to Horde players so you can't hurt them even by accident.

The Alliance version has you arrive to be informed the Horde rounded up all the civilians in the town square and executed them, complete with Forsaken assassins still lurking the town and clouds of blight everywhere.

In Darkshore, the Horde gains a foothold by challenging the furbolg chieftains to honorable combat. They best the chieftans and so they peacefully allow the Horde to pass through Darkshore without any Furbolgs being killed.

In the Alliance version, the Horde has enslaved the furbolgs, keeping their chieftains in cages and using them as hostages to force the furbolgs to attack the Alliance.
That or the Forsaken are being used to do all the dirty work. You clean up the guards they execute the civvies, you challenge the chieftain they enslave the rest to attack the Alliance.

It's possible anyone who is part of the Horde (not Forsaken) isn't being told the entire plan.
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  #5815  
Old 06-20-2018, 11:52 AM
Sa'danak Sa'danak is offline

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Originally Posted by Taintedmage View Post
That or the Forsaken are being used to do all the dirty work. You clean up the guards they execute the civvies, you challenge the chieftain they enslave the rest to attack the Alliance.

It's possible anyone who is part of the Horde (not Forsaken) isn't being told the entire plan.
I severely doubt that's the case considering how cool BFA Blizzard has been with just railroading Horde characters into downright evil shit even to the point of illogicality and a complete absence of subtlety.

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  #5816  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:34 PM
GIPlayer GIPlayer is offline

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There's bad writing. And there's THAT.

Blizzard is completely crazy if it wants to do a faction war story while failing to make a cohesive story. It was bad enough in Cata when a continuity error between novel and game sparked endless discussion of who shot first.

With effort, I can make up some forced explanations for the differences. But it would mean the Horde is utterly clueless, as the "fix" would mean: "You do stuff, the Forsaken come after and shit all over it."

Like: you mark the guards. The Forsaken use their position to blight the whole town. You get a free pass from the Furbolgs. Once the foothold is taken, the Horde betrays the Furbolgs and force them to fight the Alliance.

But I wouldn't be surprised if Sylvanas is lying about the whole plan.
You do know, that by Ockham's Razor it is Third Party™? It's just bigger version of Broken Shore.
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  #5817  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:47 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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You do know, that by Ockham's Razor it is Third Party™? It's just bigger version of Broken Shore.
Even if there's a third party involved, it would still be bad writing if there's no clues about its presence.

Also, the furbolg situation can't really be explained by a third party messing things up. Unless there's a second Horde within the Horde.
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  #5818  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:50 PM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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You do know, that by Ockham's Razor it is Third Party™? It's just bigger version of Broken Shore.
In the Broken Shore though, we got to see misunderstanding and why the sides would perceive the events differently. There's no explanation for the differences in the Teldrassil quests. It could (and likely will be) explained as Sylvanas sending a second Horde army through the places you've already been to undo all the stuff the Horde player did and make things worse, but there's no foreshadowing for it.

Also, someone on the story forums found you can go back to Astranaar as a Horde player and see the town with dead civilians, but still in a different context. They're just dead where they stood instead of being rounded up (the stable master is dead in his bed) and there's no blight or forsaken, just Saurfang and a bunch of Horde troops and banners that aren't there in the Alliance version. That makes it even harder to reconcile the events.
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  #5819  
Old 06-20-2018, 12:58 PM
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Someone snapped shots from PTR with Astranaar under Horde control. He also found out mag'har characters in Orgrimmar (probably will be be phased out until you unlock them).

https://imgur.com/a/3TdbNOO

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
In the Broken Shore though, we got to see misunderstanding and why the sides would perceive the events differently. There's no explanation for the differences in the Teldrassil quests. It could (and likely will be) explained as Sylvanas sending a second Horde army through the places you've already been to undo all the stuff the Horde player did and make things worse, but there's no foreshadowing for it.

Also, someone on the story forums found you can go back to Astranaar as a Horde player and see the town with dead civilians, but still in a different context. They're just dead where they stood instead of being rounded up (the stable master is dead in his bed) and there's no blight or forsaken, just Saurfang and a bunch of Horde troops and banners that aren't there in the Alliance version. That makes it even harder to reconcile the events.
Maybe the questline is not finished and Horde will be sent (by Saurfang) to investigate it later?

I'm leaning towards Sylvanas having secret plans she's not sharing with us or the other leaders. She does what's "necessary", without telling those who would be bothered by it.

Maybe this is the reason Saurfang acts as he does in Lordaeron. He's seeing her delving deeper into dishonored actions, and finally snaps in Lordaeron.
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  #5820  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:10 PM
Fojar Fojar is offline

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So as the Lordaeron scenario becomes more polished I'm curious about the blight.

Until now it has more or less just been treated as a chemical weapon but now it seems to be also capable of raising mindless undead, as we see from all the Blighted Soldiers in the aftermath of the battle. Furthermore, Anduin seems to have the ability to repel and/or clear it using his holy magic.

It is behaving a lot more like one of the Scourge's infectious agents now both in its effects and weaknesses and I wonder if that is intentional.

Also I know it's been pointed out a bunch already but still lmao that the Alliance assaulted Undercity without any plan for dealing with the blight, which the Forsaken have used in every major engagement with the Alliance since Cataclysm.
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  #5821  
Old 06-20-2018, 05:23 PM
Krainz Krainz is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So more of the Teldrassil quests got added in this build. They're really, really contradictory depending on your faction, to the degree that they can't both be canon.

For example, the Horde version of Astranaar has you mark guards for execution while making sure to not harm any civilians, in fact the civilians are friendly to Horde players so you can't hurt them even by accident.

The Alliance version has you arrive to be informed the Horde rounded up all the civilians in the town square and executed them, complete with Forsaken assassins still lurking the town and clouds of blight everywhere.

In Darkshore, the Horde gains a foothold by challenging the furbolg chieftains to honorable combat. They best the chieftans and so they peacefully allow the Horde to pass through Darkshore without any Furbolgs being killed.

In the Alliance version, the Horde has enslaved the furbolgs, keeping their chieftains in cages and using them as hostages to force the furbolgs to attack the Alliance.
That's easy to solve. The Horde protagonist marks the guards for execution, making sure to not harm any civilians. The Alliance protagonist sees what the other horde members did after the Horde protagonist left for his next mission.

The "canon" version will be whatever shows the most recent consequence. In that case, it's the Alliance versions.
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Old 06-20-2018, 06:39 PM
Deicide Deicide is online now

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Originally Posted by Fojar View Post
So as the Lordaeron scenario becomes more polished I'm curious about the blight.

Until now it has more or less just been treated as a chemical weapon but now it seems to be also capable of raising mindless undead, as we see from all the Blighted Soldiers in the aftermath of the battle. Furthermore, Anduin seems to have the ability to repel and/or clear it using his holy magic.

It is behaving a lot more like one of the Scourge's infectious agents now both in its effects and weaknesses and I wonder if that is intentional.

Also I know it's been pointed out a bunch already but still lmao that the Alliance assaulted Undercity without any plan for dealing with the blight, which the Forsaken have used in every major engagement with the Alliance since Cataclysm.
Well, the Forsaken are constantly experimenting with and enhancing the plague, so I think it's a natural progression.

But yeah, the Alliance attacking Undercity without ANY countermeasure is insane. One of the first things I thought it would be cool to see is how the Alliance would be prepared this time. Sylvanas would unleash her plague and the gnomes and paladins would step forward with tech and holiness to neutralize/dispell it.
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  #5823  
Old 06-21-2018, 12:58 AM
Fenixhart Fenixhart is offline

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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
So more of the Teldrassil quests got added in this build. They're really, really contradictory depending on your faction, to the degree that they can't both be canon.

For example, the Horde version of Astranaar has you mark guards for execution while making sure to not harm any civilians, in fact the civilians are friendly to Horde players so you can't hurt them even by accident.

The Alliance version has you arrive to be informed the Horde rounded up all the civilians in the town square and executed them, complete with Forsaken assassins still lurking the town and clouds of blight everywhere.

In Darkshore, the Horde gains a foothold by challenging the furbolg chieftains to honorable combat. They best the chieftans and so they peacefully allow the Horde to pass through Darkshore without any Furbolgs being killed.

In the Alliance version, the Horde has enslaved the furbolgs, keeping their chieftains in cages and using them as hostages to force the furbolgs to attack the Alliance.
This is..absolutely vile.

I'd almost prefer incompitence than this deliberate Stoy Design of intentionally skewing the narratives so hard as to "Create" these vastly differing perspectives.

Shit like this was fine when it was in Ice crown citadel and the major beats Went unchanged. It's fucking terrible when the Devilish Details are what make or break the experience.

But the fact that this is how this is going down is pretty much them showing their hand. Consistency is irrelevant. Keeping things orderly and easily readable are irrelevant. Characters behaving believably is irrelevant.

All will move and bend to their desired endgoal and we're expected to just sit and take it.


Sylvanas preaching of the mercy of Undeath, Garona having no qualms on killing another king, and Lillain Voss working for the most powerful and ruthless necromancer this planet has at the moment...there's no characters anymore. There's just names and models with dialgoe attatched to shepeard the player to whatever little end box they need to tick off.

I honestly can't care what happens to anyone or anything that this point. They've severed any remaining shred of attachment one can hold.
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  #5824  
Old 06-21-2018, 05:21 AM
Insane Guy of Doom Insane Guy of Doom is offline

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On the Alliance not preparing for the Blight, I think the reasoning comes from Anduin's line "She's killing her own soldiers!" Anduin assumed that Sylvanas wouldn't risk using the Blight in an open battlefield because, the last time that happened, it killed as many Horde as it did Alliance. Remember that in Before the Storm Anduin believes the one way to reason with Sylvanas is that she does care about the well-being of her people (as long as they fall in lockstep with her ideas, which those defending the Undercity would).


Unrelated, Uther's Tomb got updated again. It now has a high quality Uther statue, better lighting, and most interestingly, two gated off doors leading into a previously unseen lower level that can't be accessed right now. I'm almost positive now that there's going to be some "Return to Lordaeron" patch at some point. (Or it could be part of the quests in the expansion pre-event but that seems like a lot of effort for something that Blizzard has said will be removed when BfA goes live).
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  #5825  
Old 06-21-2018, 07:21 AM
Asterisk Asterisk is offline

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Uther's tomb has had me tapping my chin because it seems completely unrelated to anything but Blizzard never does updates like that just because. A Lordaeron patch later down the road makes sense, though honestly I'd rather have a Kalimdor one. The EK are getting both Battle for Undercity and the Arathi warfront, while Kalimdor is ignored after Teldrassil is completely forgotten. And I say this as a human fan.
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