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  #10576  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:35 PM
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These people are mentioned though. Gaussian and De Moivre are mentioned when we learn their respective theorems for example. This is especially true in the science classes. We don't have to take an entire class on them though.
There's always room for more.


What are folks thoughts on compulsory voting? (Slight NSFW since someone drew a 'raptor' on their ballot)
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NUMBER CANDIDATES IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE. There’s no need to calculate whether I would be throwing away my vote on the candidate that I most agree with if they’re not from a major party. I can say, I want that independent person to get in, but if not them, give me Big Party A, and if not them, that minor party person is still better that Big Party B, and I’m not giving any preference to the Lunatic Fringe Party.
Our system certainly has some issues still, but I can show up to somewhere nearby, line up for a few minutes (if at all), vote exactly in line with my values (on paper, leaving a paper trail that can be recounted), and then buy a sausage and some home made cupcakes on my way out.
A country’s voting system matters a hell of a lot and every citizen deserves one that makes it easy to vote and results in a government that is representational and accountable.
And by the way, one time I had a bad asthma flare-up on Election Day and didn’t make it to my polling station. I got my fine in the mail, I filled out the form explaining why I couldn’t vote, no more fine. I would rather have, you know, expressed my preference for who should run my country, but they were cool with the fact that I couldn’t do it that day.
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  #10577  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:39 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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Didn't some of the most famous literary writers do their thing without an English degree?
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  #10578  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:40 PM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Challenging academic norms is thinking outside of the box. It is challenging an established archaic system and authority. The sort of problem solving in STEM is better than a lot of rudimentary memorization you see in other classes. There is a reason why good grades are harder to get.

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There's always room for more.
You can't just be in school forever though. Eventually you have to enter the real world and start applying that knowledge. I could learn about them more in books and other sources if I wanted to. It isn't like we ignore them.

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Didn't some of the most famous literary writers do their thing without an English degree?
Of course. I don't see why people need colleges to imbue them with critical thinking skills. You can learn these things in other ways. It takes a lack of creativity to pretend otherwise. I would even say that universities don't do a really good job at creating good critical thinkers. I don't look at a Liberal Arts major and think "Wow this person is just so creative and knowledgeable than me." A lot of the science and engineering professors actually talk down about the other majors.

Last edited by PajamaSalad; 06-18-2017 at 09:43 PM..
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  #10579  
Old 06-18-2017, 09:46 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Didn't some of the most famous literary writers do their thing without an English degree?
Writers aren't "job creators" or something, so conservatives generally don't care about them. Similar to how they feel the arts in general, really. You're supposed to be born with it and never need formal schooling according to them.
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  #10580  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:07 PM
Yakitori Yakitori is offline

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I'd argue that you probably can have gender studies classes, but you gotta be careful with them. Like, if a student disagrees with something, actually have a discussion and debate about it, instead of there only being one right answer that is ninety percent of the time going to be "agreeing 100% with the teacher". And which, I think, is part of the problem; a lot of people are seeing these classes where the teachers have their opinions (be it on feminism, race relations, communism, or how pineapple belongs on pizza), and you can either agree with them, or fail. Some people buy in, others just go along with it.

Sadly, the students who take it too far tend to be the ones causing drama on campuses, which just colors perceptions of the "normies" on how these classes are shit.

And now, to not comment in this thread for a month, barring temporary bouts of insanity!
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  #10581  
Old 06-18-2017, 10:10 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I'd argue that you probably can have gender studies classes, but you gotta be careful with them. Like, if a student disagrees with something, actually have a discussion and debate about it, instead of there only being one right answer that is ninety percent of the time going to be "agreeing 100% with the teacher".
Is that not how they work?
Am I the only one who has ever taken a college philosophy class?
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  #10582  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:02 PM
Mutterscrawl Mutterscrawl is online now

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I'd argue that you probably can have gender studies classes, but you gotta be careful with them. Like, if a student disagrees with something, actually have a discussion and debate about it, instead of there only being one right answer that is ninety percent of the time going to be "agreeing 100% with the teacher"
I'm sure this is a thing but it's not one I'd ever encountered in my classes on sociology or anthropology.
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  #10583  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:18 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I'm sure this is a thing but it's not one I'd ever encountered in my classes on sociology or anthropology.
I think we're up against years of anti-liberal-arts propaganda.
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  #10584  
Old 06-18-2017, 11:37 PM
BaronGrackle BaronGrackle is offline

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My problem with the liberal arts I took (history and English) is that they only taught me how to teach other people liberal arts. Only they didn't even do that, because Education is a separate set of studies.

It was a process that gave me zero job skills. I just didn't realize it until it was too late.
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So besides Grackle still being triggered about ships [. . .]
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  #10585  
Old 06-19-2017, 01:12 AM
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My apologies, earlier I felt you were trying to start something with Cantus, I hadn't realized this was an issue that had affected you or your family, I'll endeavor to be less jumpy in the future.
It's ok. I should have been less sarcastic as well, I often forget that foreigners have a hard time understanding our local sarcasm and humour.

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  #10586  
Old 06-19-2017, 05:30 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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My problem with the liberal arts I took (history and English) is that they only taught me how to teach other people liberal arts. Only they didn't even do that, because Education is a separate set of studies.

It was a process that gave me zero job skills. I just didn't realize it until it was too late.
But did it make you super creative and enlightened? Did it provide you with a moral foundation that other people don't have?
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  #10587  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:01 AM
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But did it make you super creative and enlightened? Did it provide you with a moral foundation that other people don't have?
In between my talks with Destron, Grackle's lamenting, and your own opinions, I think there is something seriously wrong with the way the arts are taught in the U.S. Or at least it seems so to me, as my personal experiences are way, way different.
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  #10588  
Old 06-19-2017, 06:04 AM
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But did it make you super creative and enlightened? Did it provide you with a moral foundation that other people don't have?
Genius or piety should not be the only valid demarcation between fruitless and fruitful art. It's a thousand small steps in-between just as much as it's tsunami's of change. Mastery takes time, and not everyone will reach that point, but they can take inspiration from others failures just as much as their successes. Each false start or dead end is one more place to analyze and devise from. From a STEM perspective it's a violation of expectation and thus of little consequence, but from an artistic one, it's a brand new horizon that wasn't there before.

And in expectation is a trap just as much as a foundation. Even in something as logically sound as mathematics and physics, creativity is necessary to step around problems built into the system by false foundations from hundreds of years ago. Art takes you out of the space of where we sit and gives you the opportunity to look at the problem from perspectives that a rigid mind will ignore. Built over a community and time, it lets the truly avant garde or genius have room to explore, and allows for functional leaps.

Don't kill a system of creativity just because you aren't able to reach or see the apex.
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  #10589  
Old 06-19-2017, 09:17 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Well universities don't have a monopoly on art or history. Those degrees aren't exactly conducive to those things. No one needs a university to imbue them with critical thinking or morality. That just seems delusional to me. I am sure a lot of them think they are the only ones that have those things but that is just really patronizing and untrue. There are some things you just can't teach and others where the archaic classroom environment isn't the best way to teach them. It just comes off really cult like and insular. It just feels like more of a reason to restrict them because I don't want to sustain that. Actions are more important than words and people who love their ideas more than people but are insulated from the consequences of their decision can cause a lot of harm they aren't concerned about.
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  #10590  
Old 06-19-2017, 09:44 AM
Cantus Cantus is offline

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Well universities don't have a monopoly on art or history. Those degrees aren't exactly conducive to those things. No one needs a university to imbue them with critical thinking or morality. That just seems delusional to me. I am sure a lot of them think they are the only ones that have those things but that is just really patronizing and untrue. There are some things you just can't teach and others where the archaic classroom environment isn't the best way to teach them. It just comes off really cult like and insular. It just feels like more of a reason to restrict them because I don't want to sustain that. Actions are more important than words and people who love their ideas more than people but are insulated from the consequences of their decision can cause a lot of harm they aren't concerned about.
Again, I'm not saying everything should come from universities, but that they play a significant role alongside other major factors. You're advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. My statement isn't "keep the bathwater," but "keep the baby."
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  #10591  
Old 06-19-2017, 10:04 AM
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I'd argue that you probably can have gender studies classes, but you gotta be careful with them. Like, if a student disagrees with something, actually have a discussion and debate about it, instead of there only being one right answer that is ninety percent of the time going to be "agreeing 100% with the teacher". And which, I think, is part of the problem; a lot of people are seeing these classes where the teachers have their opinions (be it on feminism, race relations, communism, or how pineapple belongs on pizza), and you can either agree with them, or fail. Some people buy in, others just go along with it.

Sadly, the students who take it too far tend to be the ones causing drama on campuses, which just colors perceptions of the "normies" on how these classes are shit.

And now, to not comment in this thread for a month, barring temporary bouts of insanity!
Gender doesn't belong in schools, just like religion doesn't either.

Get bullshit moralists out of education.

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My problem with the liberal arts I took (history and English) is that they only taught me how to teach other people liberal arts. Only they didn't even do that, because Education is a separate set of studies.

It was a process that gave me zero job skills. I just didn't realize it until it was too late.
This, too. People go to school to learn useful stuff, not waste their time on bullshit.
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  #10592  
Old 06-19-2017, 11:41 AM
PajamaSalad PajamaSalad is offline

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Again, I'm not saying everything should come from universities, but that they play a significant role alongside other major factors. You're advocating throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. My statement isn't "keep the bathwater," but "keep the baby."
I just don't think university morality is the only kind or even best kind of morality. People can also get morality from religion but you might not agree with that. Morality is a purely subjective thing, it is important but not this particular brand of morality. It just comes off as a sort of indoctrination that is unnecessary or even harmful. They don't seem particularly moral or introspective. As a subculture it has far too much influence and power in our society that I would like see made humble. Call it the higher education bureaucratic industrial complex.
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  #10593  
Old 06-20-2017, 10:21 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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Old Yesterday, 05:24 AM
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Protip: Don't publicly use racially-charged epithets of a race you aren't and expect it to go over well
http://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/20...-her-post.html
These things usually take care of themselves. Do you have an important position where you act as a sort of figurehead for some institution? Are you being an ass on social media or any other major public platform. Are you being an ass in a way that ostensibly goes against the principles espoused by your institution?

Congratulations, you're probably going to end up out of a job before too long.
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  #10595  
Old Today, 09:01 PM
Kakwakas Kakwakas is offline

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I bet you if WarCraft 3 came out this year, people would be bitching about how it's SJW bullshit and orcs being slaves was just contrived to push the SJW agenda.
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