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View Poll Results: Which Orc should die?
Doomhammer 14 48.28%
Blackhand 23 79.31%
Durotan 10 34.48%
Kargath 22 75.86%
Kilrogg 17 58.62%
Gul'dan 18 62.07%
Ner'zhul 18 62.07%
Grom 19 65.52%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 29. You may not vote on this poll

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  #26  
Old 12-21-2013, 05:36 PM
Erthad Erthad is offline

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Originally Posted by Mutterscrawl View Post
Removes the impact of their MU variants.
I completely agree with you. Same reason why I think the Forsaken shouldn't raise characters like Terenas, Uther, or Antonidas.

I wouldn't have a problem with some of the main characters surviving though, so long as they have 0 impact on the MU moving forward.
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  #27  
Old 12-21-2013, 05:37 PM
Lord Grimtale Lord Grimtale is offline

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Originally Posted by Mark_Romaneck View Post
Cut the alive part and Im down.

Gul´Dan was a good character evil that wasnt misunderstood or had some childhood trauma or some old whisperings or daddy issues that drove him to his position

Just unrivaled ambition, pure greed, power lust, ego grown out of acomplishments... the good king of evil.

It would be pimpin if we could get that in this expansion but...

Then there is Ner´Zhul who has been both villian and hero, perpetrator and victim, noble and ambitious, abused and abuser. Would be nice to see it like that again.

Then Doomhammer was a mix between Optimus and Megatron and I love that idea



We got Garrosh last time they did that so... maybe pass

Then again he was the son of Grom and thats what got the ball rolling
There have been quite a few times where I've preferred them make a new character compelling instead of clinging to relics from WC2 or 3. Only exception to that is probably Muradin.
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  #28  
Old 12-21-2013, 05:45 PM
Reignac Reignac is offline

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Originally Posted by Lord Grimtale View Post
There have been quite a few times where I've preferred them make a new character compelling instead of clinging to relics from WC2 or 3. Only exception to that is probably Muradin.
Yeah. I remember once Cata was over and we were moving into MoP that I was so excited to be moving into a new era without relying on the RTS games. I'm excited for WoD for Draenor itself, but the "WC2 reborn" stuff is an issue for me. I'd prefer new characters to old.
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  #29  
Old 12-21-2013, 05:45 PM
Drusus Drusus is offline

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I'd be shocked if Durotan died, as well as Doomhammer. Metzen isn't going to let anything happen to his imaginary dad, and Doomhammer will be circled jerked around as OMG SO HONOURABLE, SO MISUNDERSTOOD, WHY DO YOU HATE HIM YOU RACIST ALLIANCE JERKS?! WITHOUT BLACKHAND'S COMMAND THE RESTLESS ORCS WILL OVERWHELM THIS WORLD!

At least the Warlords make perfect raid bait material for just about every single patch. Kill them, Johnny. Kill them all.

Last edited by Drusus; 12-21-2013 at 05:54 PM..
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  #30  
Old 12-21-2013, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I don't think anyone who has an important role in the MU should survive WoD, unless as maybe a villain for the future (like Gul'dan); otherwise we have the issue Mutterscrawl described and it makes the expansion feel less like "a cool chance to revisit the past and interact with some big names in Warcraft lore" and more like a cheap way to resurrect them so Blizzard doesn't have to think up new characters.
Exactly.

As for the impact of the expansion, it's just the end of the Cataclysm story arc that mostly relied on the Hellscream family. I think going back in the past to kill the father is an okay ending.

The best way to make sure no Alternate Universe character survives would be to have Gul'dan summon the Legion and have you escape Draenor in the last raid.
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  #31  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:19 PM
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Did you even read the rest? Because technically, Kilrogg would come back in a later expansion.
I did. But I'm getting sick of this "all orcs should die" attitude that has become increasingly common as of late.
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  #32  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
I did. But I'm getting sick of this "all orcs should die" attitude that has become increasingly common as of late.
Theses Orcs aren't needed in the real timeline. Same for the Draenei.
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  #33  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Insane Guy of Doom View Post
I don't think anyone who has an important role in the MU should survive WoD, unless as maybe a villain for the future (like Gul'dan); otherwise we have the issue Mutterscrawl described and it makes the expansion feel less like "a cool chance to revisit the past and interact with some big names in Warcraft lore" and more like a cheap way to resurrect them so Blizzard doesn't have to think up new characters.
Either way, Blizzard is being cheap by taking a nostalgia trip. Instead of Horde developing new heroes, they get to go back in time so they get to be reminded of all their cool heroes just so they can slaughter them. If Blizzard does not want Horde fans to be upset about this, then they should not be dangling the sweets in front of their faces.
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  #34  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:34 PM
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Blizz has flat-out stated that what happens in WoD is not going to affect the MU timeline. I assume that would include AU characters being "imported" into the MU. It is an absolutely terrible idea that the Horde should "import WoD survivors to even out the scale" or "balance things out" or whatever. That's dumb. First off, like Sky said, that cheapens the MU characters and their sacrifices/deaths/actions/etc. Second, it cheapens any and all lessons the orc race of the MU Horde are supposed to learn this expansion.

Now, on topic:

I'd like to see Durotan and Orgrim survive this ordeal. After this expansion, assuming the Iron Horde is defeated by the Horde+Alliance, I'd like to see Durotan and Orgrim pick up the pieces of their people. I don't want them coming to the MU. I want them staying in the AU and reversing the damage the Warlords caused. Hopefully this would teach the MU orcs that they too are capable of reversing the damage Garrosh caused.

The AU would, ideally, end with the draenei and orcs living on Draenor together peacefully. Perhaps even prepared for the meddling of the AU Legion. Or even peacefully interacting with AU Azeroth in some fashion. I just want a happy ending for the AU that stays in the AU.
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  #35  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
Blizz has flat-out stated that what happens in WoD is not going to affect the MU timeline. I assume that would include AU characters being "imported" into the MU. It is an absolutely terrible idea that the Horde should "import WoD survivors to even out the scale" or "balance things out" or whatever. That's dumb. First off, like Sky said, that cheapens the MU characters and their sacrifices/deaths/actions/etc. Second, it cheapens any and all lessons the orc race of the MU Horde are supposed to learn this expansion.
You know what else cheapens it? The stupid faction war from Cata/MoP. You know what else cheapens it? Going to this Alternate Universe and reminding Horde players of the time that they had cooler more developed orcs that came in flavors other than Garroshberry and Count Thrallcula.
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  #36  
Old 12-21-2013, 07:39 PM
Frostwolf Frostwolf is offline

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Originally Posted by Genesis View Post
You know what else cheapens it? The stupid faction war from Cata/MoP. You know what else cheapens it? Going to this Alternate Universe and reminding Horde players of the time that they had cooler more developed orcs that came in flavors other than Garroshberry and Count Thrallcula.
I agree but the dice has already been cast on those.
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  #37  
Old 12-22-2013, 02:12 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Originally Posted by Drusus View Post
WITHOUT BLACKHAND'S COMMAND THE RESTLESS ORCS WILL OVERWHELM THIS WORLD!
Alright, that made me chuckle.

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Originally Posted by Erthad View Post
AU Kilrogg doesn't look anything like the awesome MU Kilrogg.
I think so too.


Doomhammer - I hope he dies or at least doesn't come into MU. I think he'll start out as an NPC you help, but gradually evolve into a villain on his own, as he gets more and more power. He'll literally backstab Garrosh or Grom and unite the remains clans of Iron Horde with Blackhands' machinery, ordering to abandon Draenor and invade Azeroth, besieging Stormwind and becoming the final villain.

Blackhand - seems like he's not long for this world, which I find really sad, because of all re-imaginings of the old characters I think he ended up the most interesting, even though his power armor looks silly. Aaaand he probably has to die for Orgrim to take over the Blackrock Clan and lead them to either betraying Grom or joining the Main Horde.

Durotan - I don't see why is he even listed as one of the titular Warlords. At first I expected him to turn out as bad as the others, but it doesn't seem to be the case, as the Frostwolfves are Main Horde's good guys. He'll live.

Kargath - another character I really like, but from the revealed info seems like he's not long for the world. Also made extra crazy so you won't feel bad killing him.

Kilrogg - see Kargath.

Gul'dan
- like I said in the other thread, "Gul'dan is the evil traitor who must die in all timelines" doesn't entertain me at all. If he's still a threat, why didn't Garrosh kill him as soon as he took power? Bringing back Gul'dan only to kill him once again for the same reasons is BORING. I'd rather have the Stormreavers to act like the Klaaxi faction: a dangerous group looking for their interests that allied the players because of the shared goals.

Ner'zhul
- like with Gul'dan, I think the angle "should we blame AU guy for the stuff his MU counterpart did?" must come to play. For now it seems like he'll be a necromancy-themed quirky subboss for the Alliance to defeat in their starting zone. Poetic justice? I don't think so. Maybe he'll escape and show up later, but the necromantic angle makes me think that he's not going to be a "good guy", even of the BTDP-novel level.

Grom
- I don't think there is any other way to bring drama and tragic to the story without his and Garrosh's death. I especially like the version where he kills Garrosh, not knowing about his fatherhood, only to find out later and feel like shit - kinda like reverse Oedipus. Whether Alliance or Horde ends up killing him doesn't really matter - Horde gets drama anyway, possibly bigger than the one related to Evil Doomhammer.

So, let's review it.

Warlords, who I think SHOULD die:

Doomhammer, Ner'zhul, Grom


Warlords, who I think WILL die:

Blackhand, Kargath, Kilrogg


So what should I choose in the poll?
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  #38  
Old 12-22-2013, 02:34 AM
Crazyterran Crazyterran is offline

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I voted for Doomhammer.

Because he's still a gigantic, unrepentant douchebag that attempted to exterminate Humanity.

Ner'zhul is going to get offed by the Alliance. Preferably Khadgar.
Durotan is going to join the Horde
Kilrogg will die to Danath once again, because that'd be baller.
Kargath will die because he's fucking crazy, and we'd kill him anyways because he's fucking crazy.
Garrosh will be the last boss of Shattrath, and, after the battle, will pull a Saren and realize what he's really done.
Grom I'd kind of prefer the final blow to be done by Thrall, after some soul searching when he realizes there's no way to save his former friend.
Gul'dan will escape, and be the catalyst for the Burning Legion invasion. Hell, if it's the AU legion invading, they can even bring back Archimonde and Mannoroth.
Cho'gall will die in Auchindoun.
Doomhammer while a douche, will die to bring down Blackhand. AU Rend and Maim will/should also be bosses in the Blackrock raid... though it would be kind of interesting if they are sent to Faralon to try to claim the resources, to make up for their father's 'failure'.
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And all it takes is a tactically calculated "for the Horde" rallying the troops to make them all think "OMG she really does care!"
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  #39  
Old 12-22-2013, 06:47 AM
Hammerbrew Hammerbrew is offline

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Non of them belong in our/true Timeline.

Wipe them out. All of them.
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  #40  
Old 12-22-2013, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Hammerbrew View Post
Non of them belong in our/true Timeline.

Wipe them out. All of them.


This. After the boondoggle of the first two Wars, classic WoW, Cata and MoP, orcs need to take a backseat in the Horde for a damned long time. Kill all of the AU orc leaders. Aside from a few, orcs have proven to be nothing but arrogant, power hungry, sometimes racist assholes.

Blackhand: killed by Doomhammer.
Ner'zhul; let him be killed by the orcs that realized what he started and was stupid enough to allow.
Durotan; let him be killed fighting the Iron Horde.
Kilrogg; let him fall into a lake or river and drown
Kargath; dies while trying to wipe his arse with the wrong 'hand' and dies of blood loss and gangrene.
Garrosh ; he's a Hellscream, let him die by being hanged, or be killed by..
Grom; kills his own son and walks off laughing before his skull is caved in by a crystalline hammer.
Gul'dan; will be trampled by Ekeleks and his soul taken by Kil'jaeden and used as a toilet for all eternity.
Cho'gall will die in Auchindoun. This works for me.
Doomhammer; let him be killed after killing Blackhand by stabbing him in the back.

Most of the rest of the orcs should die from a disease the MU orcs bring to AU that decimates the orcish and ogre populations that leaves only a few hundred left alive. I am sick and tired of orcs. It is time and past time for the damned orcs to play second fiddle for the rest of WoW's existence.
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  #41  
Old 12-22-2013, 08:57 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Non of them belong in our/true Timeline.

Wipe them out. All of them.
So Yrrel should die too?
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #42  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:18 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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So Yrrel should die too?
It's inevitable.

Also, Kynrind is the new Salandrin. I did NOT need the image of Kargath accidentally killing himself while trying to wipe his arse.
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  #43  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:31 AM
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So Yrrel should die too?
Yes.
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  #44  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:42 AM
Noitora Noitora is offline

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Yes.
I hope you step on a lego.
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All this faction bitching and people arguing with each other and it's Fojar of all people that comes in with reasonable positivity.
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  #45  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:42 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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I hope you step on a lego.
She'll die.
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  #46  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:45 AM
Nazja Nazja is offline

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You people are horrible. Leave Yrel and the orcses alone.
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  #47  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:47 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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You people are horrible. Leave Yrel and the orcses alone.
Die, Die, We all pass away
But don't wear a frown
Cuz it's really okay
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  #48  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:51 AM
Krakhed Krakhed is offline

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Originally Posted by cosmictimelion View Post
Blizz has flat-out stated that what happens in WoD is not going to affect the MU timeline. I assume that would include AU characters being "imported" into the MU. It is an absolutely terrible idea that the Horde should "import WoD survivors to even out the scale" or "balance things out" or whatever. That's dumb. First off, like Sky said, that cheapens the MU characters and their sacrifices/deaths/actions/etc. Second, it cheapens any and all lessons the orc race of the MU Horde are supposed to learn this expansion.
They didn't say that AU Draenor wouldn't effect the main universe.

They said it wouldn't effect the main universe's timeline. So.

Durotan and Draka dying wouldn't cause a paradox that erased Thrall from existence or anything.

Now, as for who should die... Anyone whose death meant something.

Grom for instance. He can't be imported over without cheapening our Grom.

But for Ner'zhul, his story ended on a rather weak note. Oh, he could still die. I even expect him to. If WoD is meant to introduce us to these older characters, than I expect WoD to have their stories work as a sort of mirror for their MU counterparts.

So. I'm expecting Ner'zhul to come back after his death, and develop a significant association with the Undead.

We can probably continue this sort of thing onward to the rest of the characters who will be dying.
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  #49  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:52 AM
Stormcaller Stormcaller is offline

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Despite the flamebait-y title and the fact I originally voted everyone except Durotan and Orgim I'm starting to think more and more that they should all go. Blizzard apparently really believes in this story and were willing to go to great lengths to try and tell it to us, such as their earlier resurrection idea, but all in all it feels like the 'reunion show' of all these fan-favourite characters rather than a new stride forwards in the lore.

That and there's so much great thematic potential when you consider the fates of the chieftains as we know them and how they'll go in Warlords.

Imagine Durotan dying in front of a restrained and helpless Thrall, the moment works for non-lore fans because you know once Thrall breaks free some faces are going to be made 2-d via Doomhammer and for story types the whole scene would just a beautiful, sad mirror of what originally happened.

In the MU Thrall was forced to capture Grom and cleanse him of the corruption before finally destroying it's source with his aid. In Warlords if Thrall captures Grom there will be no corruption to cure him of beyond pure ambition, and so to destroy the corruption he'll have to destroy his 'big brother'.

Doomhammer whether fighting for the Horde or the Iron Horde (Or neutral) offers Blizzard so many options to either cleverly mirror or deviate the story we already know and give us something really interesting. Off the top of my head, maybe he could strike down Maraad and expect Shattrath to surrender only to have Yrel step up in her own right and push back the Iron Horde.

Garrosh being offed by Grom would be just beautiful. Especially if he gets called a weak-minded coward at the same time.

Kargath in his 'Black Metal Spartacus' redesign is a shoe in for a raid boss or a the end of a particularly long zone quest chain.

Kilrogg too has raid boss writ large upon him. Especially with the fact that he has seen his own death. The boss quotes write themselves there.

Cho'gall is kind of weird. Trying to mirror his story would take more than one expansion and some themes that aren't that present on Draenor (Old Gods) so having him offed by the new Imperial Ogres for being a race traitor could be fun.

It'd be fun to see who goes for Ner'zhul. Thrall and Maraad have the right to blame him as the cause of essentially everything that went wrong in their lives, even though it wasn't actually him this time. Garrosh probably has some interest in neutralising Ner'zhul's influence in his Iron Horde.

The only AU Orc who serves the longterm lore better, in my opinion, by staying alive would be Gul'dan. The idea of him finding and absorbing his own skull to then bring the Legion into Azeroth and fulfill Wrathion's prophecy just falls together too nicely.

Oh and Broxigar, he can live until we get young Brox/old Varok kicking ass together and then both dying valiantly in keeping with their family's claim to fame.

Last edited by Stormcaller; 12-22-2013 at 09:57 AM..
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  #50  
Old 12-22-2013, 09:53 AM
Kir the Wizard Kir the Wizard is offline

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Why would the AU Draenor guys even WANT to leave their planet and fight for the interests of Azerothian factions? For all intents and purposes, the Alliance and Horde are the invaders!
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